Re: Raw milk induced fever?

[Guest guest]

Jerome,

It is very strange that no one else got this fever. Obviously, nothing

was wrong with this cow or the very good handling of the milk. His

little immune system just seems to be a tad abnormal.

I'm not sure what caused this, but I know what I would have tried.

First, I would have tried another cow's raw milk. If that still caused

fever in him but no one else in the family, then something DEFINITELY

would be up with his immune system. Fever means the body is in attack

mode and that something is invading. His defenses were obviously not

capable of handling even the smallest pathogen, whereas normal immune

systems with a good stand of gut bacteria can.

So at that point, I would have obtained some kefir grains and started

him on milk or coconut kefir, (milk not from this cow), for

about a month to allow the kefir to take hold and propagate and heal

his gut. Then I would have tried him on this cow's milk again. Since

the gut

is the brain and provider and nourisher of the immune system, that is

where I would have started. Kefir nourishes the gut, the gut provides

for

the immune system.

Jerome wrote:

On another list, on a mother told the story of how her son had

a recurring fever, apparently in response to a particular "batch"

of raw milk. I'm re-posting it here, at her request, in hopes

that discussion here might help identify possible explanations

for what happened...

Subject: Re: Is Milk for Humans?

<post 1:>

Raw milk is so wonderful, but folks also need to exercise a bit

of caution, particularly if you're getting it from the local

farmer. We were milking a healthy cow, grass raised, at the farm

we apprentice at. Washing our hands, cleaning off the cow before

=

[Guest guest]

My first reaction when reading the first paragraph would have to be concern over this statement "home with it right away, refrigerating it, etc" How long did it take them to get home before chilling the milk? This should be #1 top priority when handling any milk!

Janet

On another list, on a mother told the story of how her son hada recurring fever, apparently in response to a particular "batch"of raw milk. I'm re-posting it here, at her request, in hopesthat discussion here might help identify possible explanationsfor what happened...Subject: Re: Is Milk for Humans?<post 1:>Raw milk is so wonderful, but folks also need to exercise a bitof caution, particularly if you're getting it from the localfarmer. We were milking a healthy cow, grass raised, at the farmwe apprentice at. Washing our hands, cleaning off the cow beforemilking, straining the milk into a sterilized jar, home with itright away, refrigerating it, etc. However, I noticed that whiledrinking one particular gallon of the milk, my youngest son (then4) would develop a 102 deg. fever in the evening. On the days hedidn't drink the milk, no fever. Took me several days and a littleintuition to figure it out. I was also drinking the milk and had no problems, but stopped and tossed the remainder of the milk whenwe figured out what it was.

[Guest guest]

Boy this is a tough one. Without a lab test to say there was true bacterial

contamination, you're never gonna know whether the fever was an actual

infection from the milk, or a healing reaction that the boy needed. OR

maybe he was eating something he shouldn't.... Fever can often be a good

thing in children, even though they're a little scary.

Handy that stated that about the phages.... Possibly it was

something like that. I can only think it was not serious, as the adults did

not get sick too. Still, faced with the same circumsatnces, I probably

would have pitched the milk too.

Now is when you wish you had Grandma still around to help sort this one

out....

Any experienced farmers out there/

--Terry

..

Re: Is Milk for Humans?

>

> <post 1:>

> Raw milk is so wonderful, but folks also need to exercise a bit

> of caution, particularly if you're getting it from the local

> farmer. We were milking a healthy cow, grass raised, at the farm

> we apprentice at. Washing our hands, cleaning off the cow before

> milking, straining the milk into a sterilized jar, home with it

> right away, refrigerating it, etc. However, I noticed that while

> drinking one particular gallon of the milk, my youngest son (then

> 4) would develop a 102 deg. fever in the evening. On the days he

> didn't drink the milk, no fever. Took me several days and a little

> intuition to figure it out. I was also drinking the milk and had

> no problems, but stopped and tossed the remainder of the milk when

> we figured out what it was.

>

> <post 2>

> I will never know! We were able to trace it back to the milk by varying

that as a factor over several days time. Perhaps it was that the udder was

not completely cleaned off and there was bacterial contamination there or

the gallon glass jar wasn't adequately

> sterilized. Or maybe the cow herself had some sort of *thing* going

> on that caused a febrile response in his immune system, like maybe

> passing antibodies of some sort. It was particularly odd because

> the onset was about 8-12 hours after drinking the milk and the

> duration was so short...he was always better the next day...

> and it only happened on the days he drank the milk.

>

> I wasn't too concerned about it because it was of such short duration

> and the cow was healthy and had been tested for the usual cow things,

> but concerned enough to toss the milk and to consider that perhaps

> I really don't know as much as I thought I knew about it (which was

> not much to begin with, but enough that I felt comfortable). She was

> also nursing an older calf, so perhaps some contaminant in the teat

> that way.

>

> She was a very spoiled, naughty cow, however, and got herself given

> away shortly thereafter for misbehaving! She did like my children

> though!

>

> <post 3>

> Q: Any antibiotics?

>

> <post 4>

> No antibiotics. He hasn't had any antibiotics for about 4 yrs now,

> nor any other sorts of drugs. It was weird.

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

>

> Check out these links!

> Midvalleyvu Farms http://www.midvalleyvu.com

> The Weston A. Price Foundation: http://www.westonaprice.org

> The Untold Story of Milk http://www.drrons.com/untoldstoryofmilk.html

> Please visit our Raw Dairy files for a wealth of information:

> FILES: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

> Database: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/database

> Recipes:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/database?method=reportRows & tbl

=1

> Contact List:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/database?method=reportRows & tbl

=2

> Photos: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/lst

>

[Guest guest]

It just dawned on me....

Good arguement for the Bulking of milk. When there are any questionable organisms in RawMilk, the bacteria from the others will, in a matter of hours "clean" it. These results have been repeated over and over. Mark McAfee spiked his milk with pathogens and then waited to see how long it would take to normalize, testing each time

I wonder if this same thing would apply to milk sugars carrying allergens...?

We need that lab very badly. I'm ready to sponsor fund-raisers for the thing...

--Terry

Re: Is Milk for Humans?<post 1:>Raw milk is so wonderful, but folks also need to exercise a bitof caution, particularly if you're getting it from the localfarmer. We were milking a healthy cow, grass raised, at the farmwe apprentice at. Washing our hands, cleaning off the cow before=PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Check out these links!Midvalleyvu Farms http://www.midvalleyvu.comThe Weston A. Price Foundation: http://www.westonaprice.orgThe Untold Story of Milk http://www.drrons.com/untoldstoryofmilk.htmlPlease visit our Raw Dairy files for a wealth of information:FILES: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Database: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/databaseRecipes: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/database?method=reportRows & tbl=1Contact List: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/database?method=reportRows & tbl=2Photos: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/lst

[Guest guest]

> Hello;

Another possibility is that the milk contained higher than normal

levels of a gram-negative bacteria. The endotoxin in the cell walls

of gram negative bacteria are potent inducers of fever. Some studies

suggest that young children are more suceptable to endotoxin induced

fever than adults. This could explain the presence of a fever in

only one family member. This wouldn't necessarily indicate that the

child has immune disfunction or even that the bacteria was

pathogenic, just that there was more endotoxin. I don't think we

really have enough information to know so I'm just guessing.....

Sincerely;

Jill

>

>

> Jerome wrote:

>

> > On another list, on a mother told the story of how her son had

> > a recurring fever, apparently in response to a particular " batch "

> > of raw milk. I'm re-posting it here, at her request, in hopes

> > that discussion here might help identify possible explanations

> > for what happened...

> >

> > Subject: Re: Is Milk for Humans?

> >

> > <post 1:>

> > Raw milk is so wonderful, but folks also need to exercise a bit

> > of caution, particularly if you're getting it from the local

> > farmer. We were milking a healthy cow, grass raised, at the farm

> > we apprentice at. Washing our hands, cleaning off the cow before

> > =

[Guest guest]

> Hello;

Another possibility is that the milk contained higher than normal

levels of a gram-negative bacteria. The endotoxin in the cell walls

of gram negative bacteria are potent inducers of fever. Some studies

suggest that young children are more suceptable to endotoxin induced

fever than adults. This could explain the presence of a fever in

only one family member. This wouldn't necessarily indicate that the

child has immune disfunction or even that the bacteria was

pathogenic, just that there was more endotoxin. I don't think we

really have enough information to know so I'm just guessing.....

Sincerely;

Jill

>

>

> Jerome wrote:

>

> > On another list, on a mother told the story of how her son had

> > a recurring fever, apparently in response to a particular " batch "

> > of raw milk. I'm re-posting it here, at her request, in hopes

> > that discussion here might help identify possible explanations

> > for what happened...

> >

> > Subject: Re: Is Milk for Humans?

> >

> > <post 1:>

> > Raw milk is so wonderful, but folks also need to exercise a bit

> > of caution, particularly if you're getting it from the local

> > farmer. We were milking a healthy cow, grass raised, at the farm

> > we apprentice at. Washing our hands, cleaning off the cow before

> > =

[Guest guest]

Terry, how

close is the WAPF to raising enough funds? Is there somewhere where we can check on their progress?

Also, I

wanted to ask you about glyconutrients and if there are foods sources where

they occur naturally in high proportions?

You had insinuated raw milk as a good source. Is there more that I can read on this?

It just dawned on

me....

Good arguement for

the Bulking of milk. When there are any questionable organisms in

RawMilk, the bacteria from the others will, in a matter of hours

" clean " it. These results have been repeated over and

over. Mark McAfee spiked his milk with pathogens and then waited to see

how long it would take to normalize, testing each time

I wonder if this

same thing would apply to milk sugars carrying allergens...?

We need that lab

very badly. I'm ready to sponsor fund-raisers for the thing...

--Terry

[Guest guest]

--

Well , Natasha just provided us with some great background info. Elise and Ginny know the company I refer to as overtly expensive for "maybe" effects.

Companies like Larex (larch fiber) have appropriately priced products for animals and people. I see they're teaming up now in the nutraceutical world too. I did not get into it that way, but found sugars like Mannose and Xylitol powders to add to my Kefir mix, along with the Mannatech stuff. At $65 (?) per 30 itty bitty capsules, I wanted to get my money's worth. At that point, the sugars are making alcoholic Koumiss. I even played around with SBOs and cheese cultures, but I would not advise that route unless you really are a microbiologist..... I was kidding around about Curing Cancer, but similar methods were employed, and cultures specific were formulated.

Natural Food Sources.... Don't really know for sure, but AV's use of mango and papaya makes me think to look at the high-enzyme tropical fruits first, along with cranberries, red grapes, and apples. I'm still researching this myself. The French Paradox and Phenols keep coming up as the actual healing mechanism of fermentation within the body to make high-powered sugar alcohols that clean tissue.

I know nothing about the Lab. That's a question for Sally to answer. The interest is surely there, but the time to get something substantial up and running, I'm sure is the sticking point.

When you're ready Sally, so are we. I know people who know people...etc. lol. For something specific like that? ....the money would roll in.

--Terry

RE: Raw milk induced fever?

Terry, how close is the WAPF to raising enough funds? Is there somewhere where we can check on their progress?

Also, I wanted to ask you about glyconutrients and if there are foods sources where they occur naturally in high proportions? You had insinuated raw milk as a good source. Is there more that I can read on this?

It just dawned on me....

Good arguement for the Bulking of milk. When there are any questionable organisms in RawMilk, the bacteria from the others will, in a matter of hours "clean" it. These results have been repeated over and over. Mark McAfee spiked his milk with pathogens and then waited to see how long it would take to normalize, testing each time

I wonder if this same thing would apply to milk sugars carrying allergens...?

We need that lab very badly. I'm ready to sponsor fund-raisers for the thing...

--Terry

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Check out these links!Midvalleyvu Farms http://www.midvalleyvu.comThe Weston A. Price Foundation: http://www.westonaprice.orgThe Untold Story of Milk http://www.drrons.com/untoldstoryofmilk.htmlPlease visit our Raw Dairy files for a wealth of information:FILES: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Database: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/databaseRecipes: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/database?method=reportRows & tbl=1Contact List: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/database?method=reportRows & tbl=2Photos: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/lst

[Guest guest]

>> However, I noticed that while drinking one particular gallon of

the milk, my youngest son (then would develop a 102 deg. fever in the

evening. On the days he didn't drink the milk, no fever. Took me

several days and a little intuition to figure it out. <<

So did her 4 year old drink any raw milk before this? The word

particular struck me as odd. Has he drunk any since. One thing people

need to remember when linking a " reaction " to any particular food is

that you can have reactions any where from right after you eat that

food to THREE days after that food was eaten. Especailly if it's a

minor reaction like a fever.

>> I will never know! We were able to trace it back to the milk by

varying that as a factor over several days time.<<

So in order to truelly link it to the milk she needed to take him

off the milk for atleast 4 days.

>>It was particularly odd because the onset was about 8-12 hours

after drinking the milk and the duration was so short...he was always

better the next day... and it only happened on the days he drank the

milk. I wasn't too concerned about it because it was of such short

duration<<

So has her son had any problems like this again? The reaction sounds

like what happened to my daughter after she had her vaccinations at

about the same age. It's never happened again either.

Sydnee