Re: MSM, FDA, PVC

[Guest guest]

--- Then I guess there is nothing more to be said about MSM ,is there? I shall

forget it was ever mentioned.

Joyce

[Guest guest]

MSM, FDA, PVC

They do serve a purpose as do the far right and left in

government. However, like the far right and left, they are not above

stretching the truth to fit their own agenda. The vast majority of homes

built in this country over the past 25-35 years have PVC in them and I don't

see anyone dropping over dead. I doubt very much that soap gets much hotter

than hot tap water. BTW I don't use PVC but I wouldn't be afraid to use it.

Pat,

Just to be devil's advocate here.........many of us *are* dropping over

dead...or dying slowly, of many chronic and dengerative diseases in what appears

to be, even allowing for 'modern accounting rates' and population densities,

larger numbers than ever. I'm *not* saying that PVC or any other particular item

is 'the' culprit, just that I believe that many items, natural and lab-made, are

not clearly understood and even the ones that are clearly carcinogenic are lied

about or misrepresented, along with their 'cures'.

My point? Oh, nothing really other than I'm so very cautious about *anything*

anymore that I'm nearly paralyzed.....lol. And, even then, I do dozens of things

a day that contribute to the possibility of ill-health. I'm not anti-labmade

chemical or nature-made chemical(which is, actually, everything, ins't it)but I

am supportive of the doom-sayers to a certain extent.

As a young girl I lived in Southern Calif and was one of those children you

see in old films happily frolicking in the water or in the orange groves while

planes spraying DDT fly low overhead to 'demonstrate' how safe DDT was. Now, of

course we know different, to my dismay and that of many others.

Just to throw in a, mostly, subjective opinion.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

[Guest guest]

> Just to be devil's advocate here.........many of us *are* dropping over

dead...or dying slowly, of many chronic and dengerative diseases in what

appears to be, even allowing for 'modern accounting rates' and population

densities, larger numbers than ever.

, we are fighting different disease today and if you are sick it

may seem like everyone you meet have similar problems. The facts are that

this generation is living longer than any previous generation and in better

health. This is due to a great degree to better technology, hygiene, cleaner

water, and a better understanding of diet.

> My point? Oh, nothing really other than I'm so very cautious about

*anything* anymore that I'm nearly paralyzed.....lol. And, even then, I do

dozens of things a day that contribute to the possibility of ill-health. I'm

not anti-labmade chemical or nature-made chemical(which is, actually,

everything, ins't it)but I am supportive of the doom-sayers to a certain

extent.

When a person gets sick it is natural to want to know what caused the

sickness. If there is no reason given by the doctors it is also human nature

to want to point the finger at something. I'm not saying that this is what

you are doing and I can empathize with you for being careful about what you

use. For the rest of us that are relatively healthy, I see no good reason to

live in fear. Caution is always a good thing, you should always learn as

much as you can about what goes in or on your body, because you only get one

body. I know people that take the herb Echinacea on a continuous basis. It

is a great herb to strengthen the immune system, but taken on a continuous

basis will have the opposite effect.

> As a young girl I lived in Southern Calif and was one of those children

you see in old films happily frolicking in the water or in the orange groves

while planes spraying DDT fly low overhead to 'demonstrate' how safe DDT

was. Now, of course we know different, to my dismay and that of many others.

You don't need to tell me about DDT as we used it on our dogs and cats when

I was a kid to prevent flees. You know how kids and dogs are:-) so I have no

idea of how much has gone through my system. I also worked quite frequently

with asbestos before we knew the dangers. I can only thank God that I

haven't been affected by either one.

I can't say that I am very supportive of organizations like Greenpeace, they

do however serve a purpose, so I am not bothered by them. If Greenpeace

makes people ask questions and those questions lead " some " people to the

truth, this is a good thing. The problem I see is that people don't always

want to hear the truth, they only want to hear what agrees with their own

belief system. There is a good and bad side to just about everything and the

truth usually is somewhere in the middle. We can't live without water, yet

we can drown in a few tablespoons of it.

I don't mean to single out Greenpeace here or make light of people with ill

health. I know we have people on the list that are not in the best of health

and are here to learn. The same with Greenpeace; I know we have people that

believe everything that they print. This is a free country and people can

believe whatever they want. For me personally, I want to know the truth, and

experience tells me that I seldom get it when I listen to people that are

too far to the left or right.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

[Guest guest]

Hi -- A lurker stepping up to the soap box to put my 2¢ in here --

for a few years I've heard about MSM from folks who use it, and for the last

2 months or so I've been taking it myself (found a good web retailer who

offers a reasonably priced, pure product too -- that's important). Since

I've used the MSM daily, my hip doesn't bother me like it did, my

fingernails are growing like crazy, and in general I've felt pretty darn

good (although there have been no major health problems). After

recommending it to a friend who's in her 50's, she thanks me every time I

see her because she used to hurt so much, couldn't walk up stairs without it

being a struggle, and now she feels good and is gardening again... there are

many more testimonials that could be shared.

The product makes me feel better. As for my friend -- if the doctor can't

offer her something that can make her feel at least as good as the MSM does,

you can bet she won't be without the MSM again, whether it's controversial

or not. I read that it has been studied by doctors and given the okay by

those involved in that study, although I don't know specifics on it. (If

anyone has specific details on how the product is manufactured, I'd be

interested in knowing more).

I'm going to try mixing the MSM powder into lotions, and see how effective

it is for joint and muscle aches.

(Tom, would you care to share any info on a successful way to do that?) If

it works, there are a lot of people it might help.

Although the MSM's somewhat controversial, I've come to distrust the FDA and

don't believe much of what they tell us these days because big money sways

opinions all too easily. Known carcinogenics (cigarettes, for example)

continue to be marketed, and products like Fen Phen are okayed and pushed by

drug companies, while comfrey is being scrutinized as well as other herbs

that, in my opinion, provide a great deal of relief for various problems. I

can't say a particular herb is soothing to your skin, or might help your

chest cold... If there's no money to be made as a result of researching the

MSM, or the comfrey I use, no studies will be done and the big

pharmaceuticals continue to win out; products that provide us with any

measure of pain relief are destined to be prescription-only, from a medical

doctor who doesn't have the time (or doesn't see the need) to learn about

alternative methods of treatments. I get so disgusted to think the FDA

wouldn't put its efforts into researching more and educating the public so

we can make our own decisions on what we use.

And how they can figure nutrition, the foundation for good health, is

unimportant to our bodies is beyond my comprehension (during my first

pregnancy, when I showed my OB the vitamins I was taking he said 'Oh, you're

into THAT').

Stepping down; just had to vent.

M

> There seems to be some strong feelings on the list about MSM and most of

> those to the negative side with the exception of Sherri defending it. For

> the record I agree with Sherri. I have been taking dietary supplements and

> using herbs long before they became popular. My doctor told me way back

when

> that I was wasting my money on supplements, that I didn't need them if I

was

> eating a balanced diet. The problem is that most of us do not eat a truly

> balanced diet or we engage in activities that deplete certain vitamins

from

> our bodies.

[Guest guest]

Just adding my 5 cents worth on the topic. I was VERY skeptical of MSM, but

after watching the super blue commercials over and over again, I decided to

make my own. Now, whether it's positive thinking or what, the gel works

wonders for my back. I then gave some away at work, and everyone came back

for more. One lady uses it on her carpal tunnel another (92yo!) uses it for

arthritis. I would still be skeptical but dozens of people I personally know

have tried it. Now, my pain is NOT completely gone, but I can move without

using drugs (doctor had me on Flexoril, Valium and others).

[Guest guest]

> --- Then I guess there is nothing more to be said about MSM ,is there? I

shall forget it was ever mentioned.

Joyce, don't run off into a corner. Even if I disagree with you, your views

are appreciated. With products such as MSM where there is little or hard to

find information except from the sellers, we need all the input we can get

both pro and con. I am in the experimental stage and really haven't formed

an opinion yet. Because I use herbs and supplements, my natural tendency is

to be optimistic. It would surprise me though if I had formed my final

opinion within the next three months. I have started using it for a problem

that I don't expect to notice any measurable results for at least that

period of time. Business is a different matter. If people want something

that will not injure them, I believe we should give it to them.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

Re: MSM, FDA, PVC

> Joyce

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Joyce, don't run off into a corner. Even if I disagree with you, your

views

> are appreciated. With products such as MSM where there is little or hard

to

> find information except from the sellers, we need all the input we can get

> both pro and con.

> Pat.

As I mentioned earlier, I would also like to learn more about where exactly

the msm comes from,

and how it is processed. Joyce has legitimate concerns about that. While

the msm makes me

feel better right now, it would be reassuring to know that down the road

someone won't say 'oops, we forgot

to tell you that the product causes ___ '. Just like Fen Phen and

aspartame.

M

[Guest guest]

I think this discussion has been very useful, and I'm glad Joyce

raised her issues.

This reminds me a bit of the discussion of arnica earlier this year.

As it turned out, many of us use it on ourselves, but -- for a

variety of reasons -- none of us are willing to put it into a product

we sell. We all make decisions about our own health, but when we

decide to put something in a product we sell, a different set of

criteria and issues arise for conscientious manufacturers. I'm

considering trying MSM myself (I have something which may turn out to

be fibromyalgia), but I admit that I'm put off by the advertising I

see. The claims are *so* outrageous the remind me of GSE. I find it

helpful that a number of people on this list have tried it themselves

and stated their conclusions. But it would take a lot of thought for

me to include it as an ingredient in a product.

At 10:56 AM -0500 06/02/2002, House of Scents tm wrote:

> > --- Then I guess there is nothing more to be said about MSM ,is there? I

>shall forget it was ever mentioned.

>

>Joyce, don't run off into a corner. Even if I disagree with you, your views

>are appreciated. With products such as MSM where there is little or hard to

>find information except from the sellers, we need all the input we can get

>both pro and con. I am in the experimental stage and really haven't formed

>an opinion yet. Because I use herbs and supplements, my natural tendency is

>to be optimistic. It would surprise me though if I had formed my final

>opinion within the next three months. I have started using it for a problem

>that I don't expect to notice any measurable results for at least that

>period of time. Business is a different matter. If people want something

>that will not injure them, I believe we should give it to them.

>

>Pat.

>

>Peace, Joy, Serenity

>House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

>pat@...

>http://www.houseofscents.com/

> Re: MSM, FDA, PVC

>

>

>> Joyce

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeanne.

> This reminds me a bit of the discussion of arnica earlier this year.

> As it turned out, many of us use it on ourselves, but -- for a

> variety of reasons -- none of us are willing to put it into a product

> we sell.

The discussion seems to have similarities, but there is a big difference.

Arnica is listed in Aromatherapy books as being toxic with a warning that if

you use it you should never get it on broken skin. The warnings alone make

Arnica too risky to use in a product. MSM, on the other hand has been used

in cosmetic creams and lotions for at least two to three years that I am

aware of. It is also marketed for internal use. In that time I have never

heard of anyone having a problem that they can trace back to the use of MSM.

If you listen to the sales pitch they claim it penetrates the skin. I

believe that is hogwash and for me to believe that I would want to see the

independent literature that proves it.

To be honest with you, I take most of their sales literature with a grain of

salt. I am hopeful that it may be beneficial for joint and muscle pain. I

just started using it internally myself because I had cartilage removed from

my knee a few years ago. I don't know if it will help or not, but if it

does, I don't expect it to be an overnight wonder. As I mentioned

previously, it would surprise me if I noticed anything in three months and I

am thinking more like 12 to 18 months.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

[Guest guest]

Aspartame is also linked with migraine headaches and vision problems among

other things.....our physicians ask first off when people come in with new

onset migraines if they are using it. I get such horrid headaches from just

chewing a piece of gum with it in it that would make me beg for a migraine

as it would be such a relief. Was really happy when we found out what was

causing it and they finally went away.

Theresa

Re: MSM, FDA, PVC

In a message dated 6/2/2002 8:49:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Soapourri@... writes:

> isn't aspartame a common food additive?

Aspartame has been linked to MS from the reading I have done on Multiple

Sclerosis. The FDA is far from perfect, look at all the vaccines they

approve that have proven harmful to say the least.

Way OT here........sorry

Donna