Guest guest Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 I'm really interested in what you'll say on this topic, Marge. There have only been two places I've seen recommended for aromatherapy " grade " essential oils; one was Butch and the other was you (by Butch.) , I'm not into aromatherapy. I use essential oils in my products because it's what my customers like to see. So, my opinion probably isn't much but I want to give it anyway. I think the only way to know if the EO you're getting is pure and unadulterated is for you, or the supplier, to have it tested (called a CG test?) Otherwise, you're just taking someone's word for it. I used to recommend a company on my site for essential oils. I told everyone that they were a great company and I called their essential oils " commercial " grade, perfect for soapmaking. OMG, they were furious!! The owner that wrote me insisted that their oils were aromatherapy grade oils and told me to change the description of their site. I refused, unless she could provide proof that the oils were pure. She couldn't, of course. Instead, I removed the company from the list. I wouldn't buy essential oils from a company like mine if I wanted aromatherapy oils. I'd go to someone like Marge or Butch who's whole business is centered on EOs and is very knowledgeable and honest. The last time I visited Marge's site, she had even put that she'd gotten differing opinions on one of her oils. I just checked, and it's still there (the Linden Blossom absolute.) I'm not trying to sound like a commercial for Marge, but when a supplier will be honest and say " I'm not sure " , then I tend to trust them when they say they are. , the long-winded -----Original Message----- Marge, I read recently that Essential Oils lose their healing properties after about one year...meaning, you could still use lavender oil as a fragrance, insect repellant or in " calming " blends but it would no longer be effective if placed on a cut. It sounds to me as though they would be ineffective if applied but would still remain effective if inhaled. Do you have any information on this? Do you believe it is true? It seemed to be a rather general statement, but I really don't know enough to say. Also, is there a way to tell if the EO's a person is selling is " quality " and suited for aromatherapy? I'm not worried about the ones I use in soap because I have no idea what is left of the EO once it has gone through saponification. But I would like to use aromatherapy quality oils for my other skin care formulas and am no longer satisfied with just the " claim " of aromatherapy grade (thanks to this list!). Any information you could share with me about this would be greatly appreciated! And just for the record, I do NOT have plans to make any " healing " claims on any of my products. I DO want to use an ingredient that could be beneficial to the consumer other than just a pleasant smell. Thanks! Hicks --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.368 / Virus Database: 204 - Release Date: 5/29/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 Hello , ly I find your post very dismissive of, and insulting to the many members of this list who do know exactly the quality of their oils. The only reason you see so much of Butch or Marge, is that neither one hesitates to blow their own horn, loudly and long. Marge is known to put down other suppliers and state that she knows exactly where they get their oils and that they are poor quality. For your information, Marge, I buy from some of the same suppliers you do. Many other people have different business ethics. Who decides what grade an oil is - Butch or Marge and no-one else?. Do you have any idea how that sounds? Surely if an oil works for its purpose, its aromatherapy grade? And what makes an oil different from a " commercial grade " - Do you know, does anyone? Even spending money on a GC test would not qualify the oil. Your attitude begs for the FDA to step in and put their own spin on quality of oils. Well, Naturally At 11:00 AM 5/30/2002 -0400, you wrote: >I'm really interested in what you'll say on this topic, Marge. There have >only been two places I've seen recommended for aromatherapy " grade " >essential oils; one was Butch and the other was you (by Butch.) > >, I'm not into aromatherapy. I use essential oils in my products >because it's what my customers like to see. So, my opinion probably isn't >much but I want to give it anyway. I think the only way to know if the EO >you're getting is pure and unadulterated is for you, or the supplier, to >have it tested (called a CG test?) Otherwise, you're just taking someone's >word for it. > >I used to recommend a company on my site for essential oils. I told >everyone that they were a great company and I called their essential oils > " commercial " grade, perfect for soapmaking. OMG, they were furious!! The >owner that wrote me insisted that their oils were aromatherapy grade oils >and told me to change the description of their site. I refused, unless she >could provide proof that the oils were pure. She couldn't, of course. >Instead, I removed the company from the list. > >I wouldn't buy essential oils from a company like mine if I wanted >aromatherapy oils. I'd go to someone like Marge or Butch who's whole >business is centered on EOs and is very knowledgeable and honest. The last >time I visited Marge's site, she had even put that she'd gotten differing >opinions on one of her oils. I just checked, and it's still there (the >Linden Blossom absolute.) I'm not trying to sound like a commercial for >Marge, but when a supplier will be honest and say " I'm not sure " , then I >tend to trust them when they say they are. > >, the long-winded > >-----Original Message----- > >Marge, > >I read recently that Essential Oils lose their healing properties after >about >one year...meaning, you could still use lavender oil as a fragrance, insect >repellant or in " calming " blends but it would no longer be effective if >placed on a cut. It sounds to me as though they would be ineffective if >applied but would still remain effective if inhaled. > >Do you have any information on this? Do you believe it is true? It seemed >to be a rather general statement, but I really don't know enough to say. > >Also, is there a way to tell if the EO's a person is selling is " quality " >and >suited for aromatherapy? I'm not worried about the ones I use in soap >because I have no idea what is left of the EO once it has gone through >saponification. But I would like to use aromatherapy quality oils for my >other skin care formulas and am no longer satisfied with just the " claim " of >aromatherapy grade (thanks to this list!). > >Any information you could share with me about this would be greatly >appreciated! And just for the record, I do NOT have plans to make any > " healing " claims on any of my products. I DO want to use an ingredient that >could be beneficial to the consumer other than just a pleasant smell. > >Thanks! > Hicks > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.368 / Virus Database: 204 - Release Date: 5/29/2002 > > > >Post message: Cosmeticinfo >Subscribe: Cosmeticinfo-subscribe >Unsubscribe: Cosmeticinfo-unsubscribe >List owner: Cosmeticinfo-owner >URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 Not at all, . As I stated, that is just my opinion, and not a very educated one at that. I don't read many lists so maybe I've missed it, but I've never seen Butch or Marge blow their own horns. I have seen them speak strongly and passionately about what they believe in, though. Nothing wrong with that; most of us do that. I've purchased from Butch several times and trust him because of our dealings together. I've never bought anything from Marge (but I'm thinking about that Linden!!), but others I admire and respect appreciate her. Until I deal with her on my own, I trust their opinions because I trust them. I'm sure their are plenty of other companies out there that have exceptionally good EOs. I mentioned Butch and Marge specifically because they're the only two that I know of. This goes back to what asked...How do you know the quality of your oils? I certainly can't tell by sniffing them, although I'm sure some people can. Outside of testing the oils for purity, what other way is there? I'm not going to test the oils I offer for sale; I don't have the money to do that. So, I would never sell them as " aromatherapy " grade. How do you know the quality of yours? If a GC test won't ascertain purity, what will? I don't think mentioning or asking any of this insults anyone on our list, and that certainly wasn't my intention. I buy the essential oils I use personally because of their scent. I could care less that Butch has his Rosewood tested. I buy it because I've never had one that smells so yummy. It is just my opinion that people that are claiming aromatherapy grade should have some kind of documentation to back it up, especially since they usually charge so much more for the oils. I'm not sure how what I said could involve the FDA? I don't think the industry should be policed, just stating what I would do if I were looking for high grade oils. > Hello , > > ly I find your post very dismissive of, and insulting to the many > members of this list who do know exactly the quality of their oils. > > The only reason you see so much of Butch or Marge, is that neither one > hesitates to blow their own horn, loudly and long. Marge is known to put > down other suppliers and state that she knows exactly where they get their > oils and that they are poor quality. For your information, Marge, I buy > from some of the same suppliers you do. > > Many other people have different business ethics. Who decides what grade an > oil is - Butch or Marge and no-one else?. Do you have any idea how that > sounds? > > Surely if an oil works for its purpose, its aromatherapy grade? And what > makes an oil different from a " commercial grade " - Do you know, does > anyone? Even spending money on a GC test would not qualify the oil. > > Your attitude begs for the FDA to step in and put their own spin on quality > of oils. > > > Well, Naturally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 In a message dated 5/30/02 10:55:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rratledge@... writes: > but when a supplier will be honest and say " I'm not sure " , then I > tend to trust them when they say they are. > Thank you for your reply, . I am the same way which is why it was nice looking through her site. I do have another question for the Aromatherapists/EO users our there. Does anyone have an opinion/comment/experience to share with me about Young Living? Their quality, business ethics, etc? I have bought Young Living products in the past (as gifts so I didn't get a chance to personally try the blend out). I have heard much about them from many people (customers & distributors) and they sound wonderful! I just want to make sure they are not another Aubrey Organics with a following of people that can see/say no wrong about them. Thanks Again, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 I do know the quality of my oils. They are almost all industrial or 'commercial' grade, as specifically requested by me from my suppliers, most of whom deal with both these and the 'aromatherapy' grades. I use them solely as perfume in my soaps, and I have no knowledge of their therapeutic effects, and I don't market my products as aromatherapy products. However I do emphasise that I use essential oils in my soaps, and do so because this adds to their customer appeal. Quite apart from the consideration that finer grades are probably wasted in a product such as soap, I can assure everyone that with a few exceptions, I am quite able to tell the difference between the grades I use, and the finer grades. A few of the samples of aromatherapy grade oils I have tried in soap are simply ineffective, in the sense that the resultant scent is not strong enough, or seems a little 'odd'. Ditto one or two industrial ones; in these cases I use an aromatherapy grade instead. However my reason for using the industrial grades is purely commercial. They cost less. They are not 'poor' quality, they are simply industrial grade essential oils. I fail to see that this is a question of business 'ethics'. It is not a question of ethics that I cannot use some essential oils at all because they are simply too expensive. I would love to make a soap with rose otto for example, but who could afford to buy it? My soaps smell great, and people buy them. If I used aromatherapy grade oils, I would have to charge more per bar of soap, and I believe I would sell less. I have made my commercial business decision over this. Am I being duplicitous in any way? Does my decision actually mean that I am knowingly making an inferior product? Slightly different yes, but inferior? If I used fragrance oils instead, would that make my product inferior? I do appreciate that this thread is about other properties of essential oils than merely the perfumery aspect, but I thought I would butt in to point out that industrial grades do have a function and a purpose, and that they are not in existence in order to be passed off as anything else. They are used by people like me who want something that smells great, enhances their product, and is affordable. Rose The London Soap Company > Hello , > > ly I find your post very dismissive of, and insulting to the many > members of this list who do know exactly the quality of their oils. > > The only reason you see so much of Butch or Marge, is that neither one > hesitates to blow their own horn, loudly and long. Marge is known to put > down other suppliers and state that she knows exactly where they get their > oils and that they are poor quality. For your information, Marge, I buy > from some of the same suppliers you do. > > Many other people have different business ethics. Who decides what grade an > oil is - Butch or Marge and no-one else?. Do you have any idea how that > sounds? > > Surely if an oil works for its purpose, its aromatherapy grade? And what > makes an oil different from a " commercial grade " - Do you know, does > anyone? Even spending money on a GC test would not qualify the oil. > > Your attitude begs for the FDA to step in and put their own spin on quality > of oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 Whew! Well, I don't know about Butch's products but I do know that Marge's are great and if your sources are the same, I'm sure that yours are too. I guess saying you get your oils from the same source that Marge does is sort of a double qualification since you both seem very honest, reputable people to me. I've never heard Marge put down anyone but she has been extremely helpful to me esp when I began my journey into aromatherapy. Re: RE: EO properties Hello , ly I find your post very dismissive of, and insulting to the many members of this list who do know exactly the quality of their oils. The only reason you see so much of Butch or Marge, is that neither one hesitates to blow their own horn, loudly and long. Marge is known to put down other suppliers and state that she knows exactly where they get their oils and that they are poor quality. For your information, Marge, I buy from some of the same suppliers you do. Many other people have different business ethics. Who decides what grade an oil is - Butch or Marge and no-one else?. Do you have any idea how that sounds? Surely if an oil works for its purpose, its aromatherapy grade? And what makes an oil different from a " commercial grade " - Do you know, does anyone? Even spending money on a GC test would not qualify the oil. Your attitude begs for the FDA to step in and put their own spin on quality of oils. Well, Naturally At 11:00 AM 5/30/2002 -0400, you wrote: >I'm really interested in what you'll say on this topic, Marge. There have >only been two places I've seen recommended for aromatherapy " grade " >essential oils; one was Butch and the other was you (by Butch.) > >, I'm not into aromatherapy. I use essential oils in my products >because it's what my customers like to see. So, my opinion probably isn't >much but I want to give it anyway. I think the only way to know if the EO >you're getting is pure and unadulterated is for you, or the supplier, to >have it tested (called a CG test?) Otherwise, you're just taking someone's >word for it. > >I used to recommend a company on my site for essential oils. I told >everyone that they were a great company and I called their essential oils > " commercial " grade, perfect for soapmaking. OMG, they were furious!! The >owner that wrote me insisted that their oils were aromatherapy grade oils >and told me to change the description of their site. I refused, unless she >could provide proof that the oils were pure. She couldn't, of course. >Instead, I removed the company from the list. > >I wouldn't buy essential oils from a company like mine if I wanted >aromatherapy oils. I'd go to someone like Marge or Butch who's whole >business is centered on EOs and is very knowledgeable and honest. The last >time I visited Marge's site, she had even put that she'd gotten differing >opinions on one of her oils. I just checked, and it's still there (the >Linden Blossom absolute.) I'm not trying to sound like a commercial for >Marge, but when a supplier will be honest and say " I'm not sure " , then I >tend to trust them when they say they are. > >, the long-winded > >-----Original Message----- > >Marge, > >I read recently that Essential Oils lose their healing properties after >about >one year...meaning, you could still use lavender oil as a fragrance, insect >repellant or in " calming " blends but it would no longer be effective if >placed on a cut. It sounds to me as though they would be ineffective if >applied but would still remain effective if inhaled. > >Do you have any information on this? Do you believe it is true? It seemed >to be a rather general statement, but I really don't know enough to say. > >Also, is there a way to tell if the EO's a person is selling is " quality " >and >suited for aromatherapy? I'm not worried about the ones I use in soap >because I have no idea what is left of the EO once it has gone through >saponification. But I would like to use aromatherapy quality oils for my >other skin care formulas and am no longer satisfied with just the " claim " of >aromatherapy grade (thanks to this list!). > >Any information you could share with me about this would be greatly >appreciated! And just for the record, I do NOT have plans to make any > " healing " claims on any of my products. I DO want to use an ingredient that >could be beneficial to the consumer other than just a pleasant smell. > >Thanks! > Hicks > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.368 / Virus Database: 204 - Release Date: 5/29/2002 > > > >Post message: Cosmeticinfo >Subscribe: Cosmeticinfo-subscribe >Unsubscribe: Cosmeticinfo-unsubscribe >List owner: Cosmeticinfo-owner >URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 Lynda, I would like a copy please. Tracey Newhouse --- Lynda Sorenson wrote: > A few people here have already mentioned the YL > files that my husband > Graham has on his website. Trust me, there is a lot > behind what people > have to say in these files, and there is a lot more > that we have heard > regarding the underhanded and deliberately dishonest > business practices > of the hierarchy of this company. It is a shame, > but yes, the little > people at the bottom of the pyramid - the > distributors- are probably > well-meaning people who are taken in by the stuff > these people shovel out. > > If anyone would want to see a copy of an article we > researched and wrote > regarding their practices - particularly Raindrop > technique, I would be > glad to forward it off list. Also, check out the > last few issues of > Aromatic Sage e-zine regarding this company and it's > founder. Finally, > I can forward a 'white paper' written by two people > well known in the AT > community regarding the use of Raindrop technique > and why it is unsafe. > > These people make Aubrey look like SAINTS. > > Lynda > > tnhicks@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/30/02 10:55:10 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > > rratledge@... writes: > > > > > > > but when a supplier will be honest and say " I'm > not sure " , then I > > > tend to trust them when they say they are. > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply, . I am the same > way which is why it > > was nice > > looking through her site. > > > > I do have another question for the > Aromatherapists/EO users our > > there. Does > > anyone have an opinion/comment/experience to share > with me about Young > > Living? Their quality, business ethics, etc? I > have bought Young > > Living > > products in the past (as gifts so I didn't get a > chance to personally > > try the > > blend out). I have heard much about them from > many people (customers & > > distributors) and they sound wonderful! I just > want to make sure they > > are > > not another Aubrey Organics with a following of > people that can > > see/say no > > wrong about them. > > > > Thanks Again, > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > Post message: Cosmeticinfo > > Subscribe: Cosmeticinfo-subscribe > > Unsubscribe: > Cosmeticinfo-unsubscribe > > List owner: Cosmeticinfo-owner > > URL to this page: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Share Posted June 4, 2002 Sure, . http://www.naturesgift.com/ This is Marge's site. http://www.av-at.com/ Butch's site. HTH! > could you please provide websites for these two locations for EOs as > I would like to check them out. Thanks > > S. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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