Re: Some interesting information about thoughts and fish ....

[Guest guest]

>

> Without being aware of principles of mind, consciousness and

> thought, I experienced myself as some kind of observer,

> disconnected from thoughts. Although I suppose I must have read

> about this before it happened.

Thanks for sharing your experience Eva

Now let me once again play the Devils advocate, and ask how could you

experience being an observer without thought and consciousness?

Without a thought which says " observer " how would you even know you

were an observer? As you pointed out " No story, no world " , without

thought literally nothing exists. There may well be something there,

but without thought and consciousness how would we know?

" Sanity doesn't suffer, ever . . . ever! Sanity doesn't suffer,

ever, ever! Isn't that lovely? " Byron

[Guest guest]

Hi ltwobk,

the Devil can be proud of an advocate like you... :-)

What I hear you say (which is of course not the same as what you

hear yourself say), is that whatever I would tell you about my

experience, for you it is inconceivable to have an experience

without thought, so it didn't happen.

Well, I don't know.

It didn't feel like the experience was created or accompanied by a

thought, but then of course, I know how easy it is to deceive

myself, so yes, you could be right or you could be wrong, or some

combination of right or wrong, say, 'wrought' :-))

Eva

> >

> > Without being aware of principles of mind, consciousness and

> > thought, I experienced myself as some kind of observer,

> > disconnected from thoughts. Although I suppose I must have read

> > about this before it happened.

>

>

> Thanks for sharing your experience Eva

>

> Now let me once again play the Devils advocate, and ask how could

you

> experience being an observer without thought and consciousness?

> Without a thought which says " observer " how would you even know

you

> were an observer? As you pointed out " No story, no world " , without

> thought literally nothing exists. There may well be something

there,

> but without thought and consciousness how would we know?

>

>

> " Sanity doesn't suffer, ever . . . ever! Sanity doesn't suffer,

> ever, ever! Isn't that lovely? " Byron

[Guest guest]

Dearest Devil,

You said:

" You may well have blissed out and become God, but that is a

referenceless state impossible to " experience " simply because there

are no thoughts or consciousness.

To say that you had an experience (any experience) however

transcendental it may have been, implies the existence of

consciousness and thought. "

Yes, I agree with all of the above. The instant that awareness of an

experience occurs, that one has moved into a story and is no longer

aware of Reality.

Like you, for me, the word " experience " implies a story (e.g.

thoughts).

I seem to " ?experience? " two different states of being, one in which

I am " self-aware " and in a world of thoughts and the second is

just " BEING " . I can not adequately describe this state of BEING with

words because words always imply the possibility of opposites or

duality.

It is as if " I am not " and then bingo, " I am " .

I remain continuing to practice Inquiry and emptying the bowl.

Regarding your comments on thoughts, I can only say that you could be

right. I have no clue if what you are saying is right or wrong. I

could hazard a guess/opinion; however, that would only be filling my

bowl with more thought.

Love, Steve D.

> >

> >

> > SD: I know it from the experience of it. These experiences are

> > beyond description, words, thoughts, etc. As far as I can tell,

> > what gives me the experience is to be without thought.

> >

>

>

> Thanks for your thoughts Steve, always appreciated

>

> Let me play the Devils advocate and ask if your experience was

indeed

> beyond description or any words or thoughts, how did you know you

had

> it? You may well have blissed out and become God, but that is a

> referenceless state impossible to " experience " simply because there

> are no thoughts or consciousness.

>

> To say that you had an experience (any experience) however

> transcendental it may have been, implies the existence of

> consciousness and thought.

>

> I also suspect that there may be a misunderstanding about how we

are

> both using the concept of " thoughts " . For me thoughts range from

the

> the subtle and transcendental thought from Mind (God) to the very

> course and heavy thought of ego. When you speak of being without

> thought I would interpret that as being without the course and

heavy

> thoughts of the ego. Without the ego thinking I am open to the

> subtle, vast and transcendental thought arising from Mind. Many

> people report transcendental experiences where they cease to exist

> and they are one with everything, yet what they miss is that all

that

> is still nothing more than a most subtle thought brought to life

> through consciousness.

>

> Just some more thoughts from the Devils advocate .... LOL ...

>

>

> " Sanity doesn't suffer, ever . . . ever! Sanity doesn't suffer,

> ever, ever! Isn't that lovely? " Byron