Re: People can take responsibility for themselves

[Guest guest]

Thanks for sharing your work, Marsha. I really like where you go with

it. I've interspersed some thoughts...

> ...

> What is the " should " ? I should be able to control my destiny. I

> should be privy to God's plan so that I can follow it more easily…

> kind of like Map Quest directions.

What if it's not possible for you to deviate from God's plan? What if

even your wondering about it is part of God's plan?

> Where's the proof that people can take responsibility for

> themselves? Well, I hear all these " success " stories about how

> people overcome tremendous odds. These stories celebrate the power

> of will, discipline and control. These stories (fables?) give the

> illusion that if I just try harder, focus more, have more tenacity, I

> can have what I want. And if I don't get what I want it's my fault –

> I'm responsible.

What if they just happened to win the cosmic lottery? They happened to

get the genes, input, whatever, that allowed them to be " successful " .

> What's the reality of it? The reality is that sometimes I feel like

> I can take responsibility for myself and other times I don't.

>

> Can you absolutely know that it's true that people can take

> responsibility for themselves? No. Whose business is it? God's

> business, I guess, and our business too, to a point. I mean, I can

> do inquiry on thoughts and that leads to greater

> understanding/clarity and out of that clarity comes...?

Whether I do the Work is up to me. Is that true?

> How do you react when you think that thought that people can take

> responsibility for themselves? What do you say and do when you

> believe that thought? I feel like they should know better and that

> they should be following " the rules. " I feel like those that " fail "

> are weak in some way (mental note to self: failure not allowed, is it

> true one can fail?). I feel like life is unfair because there is so

> much that is beyond my control and I'm being held responsible for all

> of that too!

Who is holding you responsible?

> ... I feel like I should be able to move more quickly, be

> where I want to be, do what I want to do, be with whomever I want to

> be with, and the rest of the damn universe just won't let me do what

> I want! The cards are stacked against me…it's me against the world…

> they're out to stop me. I don't feel supported or trusting in

> anyway, that's for sure! But see how responsible I am?!! (Just

> ignore the flat spot on my head from smashing myself against every

> wall in the vicinity)

> ...

> Turnaround: People can take responsibility for themselves

>

> People cannot take responsibility for themselves – I can kind of see

> that…we are all just pawns in the game of life…fatalistically

> speaking. We are not the doers.

>

> I cannot take responsibility for other people – I can definitely find

> that! LOL!

>

> I cannot take responsibility for anything – I'm kind of struggling

> with this one…I can feel how the only thing I'm " responsible " for is

> accepting reality – I can definitely see that.

>

> My thinking is holding myself and others responsible – I can see that

> too. Without the concept of responsibility my life is much easier,

> freer, more present.

Cool! I love your turn-arounds.

Tom

[Guest guest]

Hi Marsha,

thank you for this one too.

I get the feeling that this thought: " People can take responsibility

for themselves " originates from more simple thoughts (e.g. 'I don't

want X to rely on me to do Y' or 'X should do Y') and if so, I wonder

what these are?

If thoughts like that surface, you might try to see where inquiry

takes you.

Also, I was a bit unclear what the statement 'people can take

responsibility for themselves' really means for you. To me it sounds

similar to a statement like " People can breathe " . They can or they

can't. What has it got to do with you? What is making this statement

painful to you?

I found it a bit confusing that sometimes you talk about people in

general 'they can take responsibility for themselves' and sometimes

about yourself 'I can take responsibility for myself'.

Your work gives me the impression that the pain is mostly when it is

about yourself and that you feel guilty or unworthy for not taking

responsibility for yourself.

> The cards are stacked against me…it's me against the world…

> they're out to stop me. I don't feel supported or trusting in

> anyway, that's for sure! But see how responsible I am?!! (Just

> ignore the flat spot on my head from smashing myself against every

> wall in the vicinity)

A thought: All walls in my vicinity will disappear the moment I am

loving what is. Walls appear when I resist what is. Resistance

creates walls and then of course I smash against them, because that

is what resistance is about.

> Are we working

> at cross purposes or is it all out of my control anyway?

I was playing with the thought that I don't have control, that I have

no free will, and I found that this thought brings a lot of happiness.

It relieves me of shame and guilt of things I did in the past and it

relieves me of worry and fear of failure when it is about things in

the future. Also it frees me of putting blame on others. Feeling thus

relieved, living in the here and now is a lot easier.

And so far it hasn't turned me into a coach potato.

So whether it is true or not, believing that I am *not* responsible

is a more peaceful story than believing that I am.

Considering that so many things are out of my control (such as all

the processes that keep my body alive), it seems rather ridiculous to

think I have any control (and thus responsibility) at all.

But there are still those little but, but, buts there!

Love,

Eva

[Guest guest]

Hi Marsha ~

Thank you for the insightful and powerful meditation

on " responsibility. "

The bottom line, and you will have to discover the truth or falseness

of this for yourself, is whether or not there is a concious " you "

which controls, summons up, and selects thoughts. Choices,

decisions...they are thoughts. Responsibility can only exist if

there is a " you " who willfully examines all the thoughts and then

consciously chooses one over the other.

If you find this " you, " then I would think you would conclude that

this " you " IS responsible.

In the absence of this " you, " maybe there are only thoughts, coming

and going. A bundle of them, collected together, and thought in

rapid succession, creates a sense of a separate, ongoing, choosing

entity, one that is " responsible. "

Have you noticed that thought keeps changing (and sometimes isn't

even present, as in deep sleep or in a coma), so how can there a

stable, unchanging " you " ?

Perhaps the " you " only exists within self-referential thought.

Troubling, unsettling thought: a troubled, unsettled sense of " you. "

Peaceful, serene thought: a calm, pacific sense of " you. "

No thought: no sense of " you. "

Perhaps, no " you " at all.

Maybe the only thing " responsible " is thought?

And if the " you " doesn't control thought, since the " you " is a

creation, a by-product OF thought, then who or what is doing the

choosing, and who or what is to be held responsible?

My recommendation: if you are so inclined, spend some time sitting

quietly, watching thought " happen. " See if " you " control it or if it

births you.

[Guest guest]

Dear Marsha,

Thank you for stirring the pot for us on this Holiday Weekend. I am

happy that you had some time on your hands.

You said::

" Where's the proof that people can take responsibility for

themselves? Well, I hear all these " success " stories about how

people overcome tremendous odds. These stories celebrate the power

of will, discipline and control. These stories (fables?) give the

illusion that if I just try harder, focus more, have more tenacity, I

can have what I want. And if I don't get what I want it's my fault –

I'm responsible. "

When I think I WANT anything, I am really believing the story that I

can " fall short " . For me, to believe that I WANT something is to be

confused. And that is OK until I am not confused and understand that

there is absolutely nothing to Want and no one to want it.

I, like Tom, really loved your turnarounds.

Happy Holiday! Steve D.

[Guest guest]

Eva,

I appreciate your thoughts...and had a few others upon reading

yours.

> I get the feeling that this thought: " People can take

>responsibility for themselves " originates from more simple thoughts

> (e.g. 'I don't want X to rely on me to do Y' or 'X should do Y')

>and if so, I wonder what these are? If thoughts like that surface,

you might try to see where inquiry takes you.

People can take responsibility for themselves was the underlying

belief of 'I don't want X to rely on me to do Y' and 'X should do

Y.' After having done (similar) previous worksheets, and not having

anything really leap out at me, I realized that the Underlying Belief

was the one I posted. I got a lot more out of the UB worksheet!

>

> Also, I was a bit unclear what the statement 'people can take

> responsibility for themselves' really means for you.

At the time I wasn't clear either, I was much clearer about it after

I did some Work on it.

To me it sounds

> similar to a statement like " People can breathe " . They can or they

> can't. What has it got to do with you? What is making this

statement painful to you?

I don't know if that's similar or not...The statement 'people can

take responsibility for themselves' doesn't cause me pain, really. I

was just moved to do the worsheet and just noticed what came

up...more subject matter for more worksheets, that's for sure!

> I found it a bit confusing that sometimes you talk about people in

> general 'they can take responsibility for themselves' and sometimes

> about yourself 'I can take responsibility for myself'.

Yes, my mind does tend to wander...one of the draw backs of not

having face-to-face facilitation to keep one on " track. " I do like

to writing it all down though, and then going back and taking each

statement one by one and either turning it around or doing a

worksheet on it. It is ineteresting what comes out in the

original " dump " and where the subsequent worksheets take me.

> A thought: All walls in my vicinity will disappear the moment I am

> loving what is. Walls appear when I resist what is. Resistance

> creates walls and then of course I smash against them, because that

> is what resistance is about.

I really liked this one! Thanks.

> So whether it is true or not, believing that I am *not* responsible

> is a more peaceful story than believing that I am.

I agree with you there!

Marsha