Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 > > Things should be different. Mothers shouldn't neglect their > children. Fathers shouldn't abandon their families. Corporate > executives shouldn't steal from their employees. No one should > cheat or steal or murder. These still sound right and true to me. > > Comments, please? > do you know why your statements above are unpeaceful? It's because they argue with reality. The truth is that mothers do neglect their children, sometimes. Fathers do abandon their families, sometimes. Corporate executives do steal from their employees, sometimes. People do cheat, steal and murder, sometimes. From a LWI perspective to argue with reality is insane, because no matter what you do you can NEVER change it. Christian gropus have been trying change the world for the last two thousand years, and have you noticed people still cheat, steal and murder. This does not mean that one should condone confused behaviour, it's just that believing a lie like people shouldn't kill others is painful, because the reality is that they do. Also my feelings about rape, stealing and murder arise not from those acts, but from the thoughts (stories) I have about those actions. Without a story that killing was " wrong " I could witness an execution and acknowledge what is without any negative feelings. From that peaceful place I could be much more effective if I was moved to try to stop the execution from happening at all. By loving what is I place myself in the optimal position to act in the world if I am moved to do so, rather than acting out of the confusion of anger or fear. Loving what is ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Dear , > I have a lot of trouble with thinking that things should be > different. I'm posting my inquiry work. Obviously I haven't got it > all figured out as yet. I'm no longer a Christian, but I was raised > that way, and it still affects the way I think, as you can see > below: > > Things should be different. Is this true? It is if you are a > Christian. Is it true that things are supposed to be different when you are a Christian? How does reality look like, are they different? Reality will tell you how things should be. It's a fundamental tenant of the faith that things should > be different. Sin has entered the world. Turn it around. Sin has entered... We struggle against it > daily. Everyday we die to the sin within ourselves. Is it true? Can you absolutely know this is why people die? Can you absolutely know there is such a thing as sin? It could be a myth... How do you react when you believe that? Who would you be without that thought? Turn it around. Things should be > more perfect. So things are not perfect the way they are. Is it true? Can you absolutely know it is true? How do you react when you believe this thought? Who would you be without it? Turn it around. We work to make them so. We strive to bring ourselves > more in line with the perfect love of God. We strive to overcome > poverty and injustice and oppression. We build hospitals. We build > schools. We organize fund drives. And we believe that someday Christ > will return and renew the world. > > How do I react when I think " Things should be different? " I look > forward to Christ's return. I think of the things I can do to make > the world a better place. I am upset with the things in my own life > that are not as God wants them to be. > > Who would I be without that thought? I wouldn't be able to maintian > my faith. And what would that feel like? Can you see a stressfree reason to maintian your religion that things should be different? In what way would you treat yourself differently without that thought? > > Turn arounds: > 1) Things should be the way they are. I don't know if this is true. How does reality look like? > Maybe God doesn't care. Maybe God wants everything just the way it > is. No, it's because good comes from bad. It is necessary at times > for bad to happen so that good may follow. Can you absolutely know that is true? After the forest fire, the > fire-blooming flowers. Besides, we can't know whether a thing is good > or bad, because we don't know what will follow from it. Maybe things just happen and then a story runs in our heads that this was good or this was bad? > 2) I should be different. I suppose so. I should be more industrious, > braver, more disciplined, more loving, etc. etc. Your thinking should be different. Isn´t that what you really want? > > Things should be different. Mothers shouldn't neglect their children. > Fathers shouldn't abandon their families. Corporate executives > shouldn't steal from their employees. No one should cheat or steal or > murder. These still sound right and true to me. On what planet shouldn´t these things happen? Can you absolutely know these things are not supposed to happen? Again look at reality. How do you react when you believe the thought that this isn´t supposed to happen when it does? Who would you be without this thought? Picture yourself reading about it in the newspaper without the thought that this isn´t supposed to happen. Who would you be? Turn every statement around. > > Comments, please? > > Love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Dear , I loved your post. I think of myself as one who is Working toward becoming a Christian. For me, an important point here is: " What is your definition of a Christian? Who taught you this definition? Is it really true? Here is my personal definition of what a Christian is: One who follows what is called the " Great Commandment " . This is the quote attributed to Jesus that says " Love The Lord Thy God with all your heart and mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself. " When I investigate, I find that sometimes I do this and most of the time I don't, so based upon that awareness, I consider myself to be " Working on it " . So, for me, to be a Christian or not is a moment to moment thing. It is like 's story about her ex-husband asking her if she loves him. Her response was " I do, I don't, I do, I don't. " Each time I " undo " my beliefs, a little more of what " I am " becomes visible. I agree with what says, the bottom line is " God is good and God is all. " For me, when you have only that concept, you would be what Jesus was refering to by his so-called " Great Commandment " . (By the way, I find it impossible to believe that Love could or would give another a Commandment....perhaps a Loving Suggestion? I find peace in remembering that " Love does not always appear kind. " At least, not until I do The Work and let The Heart tell the mind what is true. Blessings, Steve D. > I have a lot of trouble with thinking that things should be > different. I'm posting my inquiry work. Obviously I haven't got it > all figured out as yet. I'm no longer a Christian, but I was raised > that way, and it still affects the way I think, as you can see > below: > > Things should be different. Is this true? It is if you are a > Christian. It's a fundamental tenant of the faith that things should > be different. Sin has entered the world. We struggle against it > daily. Everyday we die to the sin within ourselves. Things should be > more perfect. We work to make them so. We strive to bring ourselves > more in line with the perfect love of God. We strive to overcome > poverty and injustice and oppression. We build hospitals. We build > schools. We organize fund drives. And we believe that someday Christ > will return and renew the world. > > How do I react when I think " Things should be different? " I look > forward to Christ's return. I think of the things I can do to make > the world a better place. I am upset with the things in my own life > that are not as God wants them to be. > > Who would I be without that thought? I wouldn't be able to maintian > my faith. > > Turn arounds: > 1) Things should be the way they are. I don't know if this is true. > Maybe God doesn't care. Maybe God wants everything just the way it > is. No, it's because good comes from bad. It is necessary at times > for bad to happen so that good may follow. After the forest fire, the > fire-blooming flowers. Besides, we can't know whether a thing is good > or bad, because we don't know what will follow from it. > 2) I should be different. I suppose so. I should be more industrious, > braver, more disciplined, more loving, etc. etc. > > Things should be different. Mothers shouldn't neglect their children. > Fathers shouldn't abandon their families. Corporate executives > shouldn't steal from their employees. No one should cheat or steal or > murder. These still sound right and true to me. > > Comments, please? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Thank you for *your* work Daisy, and thank you, , for *your* thoughts. Am 23.07.2004 um 07:15 schrieb daisytrench: > I have a lot of trouble with thinking that things should be > different. I'm posting my inquiry work. Obviously I haven't got it > all figured out as yet. I'm no longer a Christian, but I was raised > that way, and it still affects the way I think, The way you were raised affects the way you think. Is that true? If you were raised differently, you would *not* think the way you are thinking now. Can you *absolutely* know that that is true? That sounds like a *BIG* luggage you are carrying around. Look at what you get for that thought: a childhood, people responsible for the way you were raised, a meaning for all the things they did, for each of them, a *long* past… And do you even know if it is true? Or do you carry all that *weight* in pure innocence, because you don't know how to gently put it down and rest for… *now*? > as you can see below: > > Things should be different. Is this true? It is if you are a Christian. Talk for yourself. When you *can* do that, *then* talk for others, too. > It's a fundamental tenant of the faith that things should > be different. Sin has entered the world. Of whose faith? > We struggle against it daily. Do we? > Everyday we die to the sin within ourselves. Things should be > more perfect. We work to make them so. We strive to bring ourselves > more in line with the perfect love of God. We strive to overcome > poverty and injustice and oppression. We build hospitals. We build > schools. We organize fund drives. And we believe that someday Christ > will return and renew the world. *Is* that true? *Sweetheart*, be gentle, go through this list, and put yourself in it at *every* thought. If you want to experience understanding. Things should be different, is that true? Yes, it is, for *me*, because *I* am a christian (and is *that* really true? *I* could accept them if I was *not* a Christian. And is *that* really true?). It's a fundamental tenenat of *my* faith that *I* should be different… > How do I react when I think " Things should be different? " I look > forward to Christ's return. I think of the things I can do to make > the world a better place. I am upset with the things in my own life > that are not as God wants them to be. Dear one, your life is not as God wants it to be. Can *you* absolutely *know* that? How is that possible? My life is *exactly* the way the Almighty wants it. Because *He* is the Almigthy, not me. And whenever *I* perceive something as wrong, then *I* am the one that is wrong. Because what is, is. And that is what is *best*. There is *no* exception. And tell a little bit about how you feel when you think about how things should be different, and you watch the news and perceive that they are not. > Who would I be without that thought? I wouldn't be able to maintian my > faith. Can you absolutely know that? If you want to go deep: Your faith on *whom*? Where is God's power in *your* thoughts? Who *knows* what is best? God? > Turn arounds: > 1) Things should be the way they are. I don't know if this is true. > Maybe God doesn't care. Maybe God wants everything just the way it > is. No, it's because good comes from bad. It is necessary at times > for bad to happen so that good may follow. After the forest fire, the > fire-blooming flowers. Besides, we can't know whether a thing is good > or bad, because we don't know what will follow from it. What wisdom! My experience: Things are as they are. Call them good. Call them bad. That's your perception. *Very* popular. And they still are the way they are. How do I know how thigs should be? I open my eyes. Want shame on purpose, just to get rid of the boredom? " My life should be different " , " I am not good enough " , " What have I *done*? " - They only hold with a past. > 2) I should be different. I suppose so. I should be more industrious, > braver, more disciplined, more loving, etc. etc. > Things should be different. Mothers shouldn't neglect their children. > Fathers shouldn't abandon their families. Corporate executives > shouldn't steal from their employees. No one should cheat or steal or > murder. These still sound right and true to me. And it still is God's will. Can you see that? And if the answer is " No " for you, then that is God's will, too. No one should murder. Is that really true? The world would be much better off, if *everyone* stopped murdering. Hear me. *I* know what's best for *everyone*. You see, I don't even know what's best for *me*. Someone else is taking care of that. How could *I* talk for others? I do pretend, sometimes, and I came to see, that that *is* what is best for me. And within that lies immense freedom. > Comments, please? > > Love, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 At the core, maybe you (and I) could investigate the thought " the world is an imperfect place " Can I really know that? By thinking the world is imperfect, isn't that contributing to the percieved imperfection? In a " perfect " world, wouldn't EVERTBODY be accepted even the neglector? and Can a turnaround for " i look forward to christ return " be " I look forward to realizing Christ has already returned " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Dear , You said: " I look forward to Christ's return. I think of the things I can do to make the world a better place. I am upset with the things in my own life that are not as God wants them to be. " Here are some turnarounds: " I look forward to my return. " " I think of the things I can do to make " my mind " a better place. " " I am NOT upset with the things in my own life that are as God wants them to be. " " I am upset with the things in my own life that are as God wants them to be. " Steve D. > I have a lot of trouble with thinking that things should be > different. I'm posting my inquiry work. Obviously I haven't got it > all figured out as yet. I'm no longer a Christian, but I was raised > that way, and it still affects the way I think, as you can see > below: > > Things should be different. Is this true? It is if you are a > Christian. It's a fundamental tenant of the faith that things should > be different. Sin has entered the world. We struggle against it > daily. Everyday we die to the sin within ourselves. Things should be > more perfect. We work to make them so. We strive to bring ourselves > more in line with the perfect love of God. We strive to overcome > poverty and injustice and oppression. We build hospitals. We build > schools. We organize fund drives. And we believe that someday Christ > will return and renew the world. > > How do I react when I think " Things should be different? " I look > forward to Christ's return. I think of the things I can do to make > the world a better place. I am upset with the things in my own life > that are not as God wants them to be. > > Who would I be without that thought? I wouldn't be able to maintian > my faith. > > Turn arounds: > 1) Things should be the way they are. I don't know if this is true. > Maybe God doesn't care. Maybe God wants everything just the way it > is. No, it's because good comes from bad. It is necessary at times > for bad to happen so that good may follow. After the forest fire, the > fire-blooming flowers. Besides, we can't know whether a thing is good > or bad, because we don't know what will follow from it. > 2) I should be different. I suppose so. I should be more industrious, > braver, more disciplined, more loving, etc. etc. > > Things should be different. Mothers shouldn't neglect their children. > Fathers shouldn't abandon their families. Corporate executives > shouldn't steal from their employees. No one should cheat or steal or > murder. These still sound right and true to me. > > Comments, please? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > Things should be different. Mothers shouldn't neglect their children. > Fathers shouldn't abandon their families. Corporate executives > shouldn't steal from their employees. No one should cheat or steal or > murder. These still sound right and true to me. I see differents ways to interpret the " is it true " question. My first impulse is to translate it into " Is it morally right? " ; I understand that morality is not the issue here so i re-translate it into " is it what is really happeing " But sometimes the most powerful way to open up myself is to ask " Is it so bad that God/life/etc can't make good of it? " Then It usually is much easier to answer No It is not so horrible that God can't do something good out of it Out of WW3 can united nations...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Steve: I loved YOUR post. I found your thoughts at the end ( " I find it impossible to believe that Love could or would give another a Commandment " ) and ( " Love does not always appear kind. " ) to be especially profound. Thank you. > Dear , > > I loved your post. I think of myself as one who is Working toward > becoming a Christian. > For me, an important point here is: " What is your definition of a > Christian? Who taught you this definition? Is it really true? > > Here is my personal definition of what a Christian is: > One who follows what is called the " Great Commandment " . This is the > quote attributed to Jesus that says " Love The Lord Thy God with all > your heart and mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself. " > When I investigate, I find that sometimes I do this and most of the > time I don't, so based upon that awareness, I consider myself to > be " Working on it " . > > So, for me, to be a Christian or not is a moment to moment thing. > > It is like 's story about her ex-husband asking her if she loves > him. Her response was " I do, I don't, I do, I don't. " > > Each time I " undo " my beliefs, a little more of what " I am " becomes > visible. > > I agree with what says, the bottom line is " God is good and God > is all. " For me, when you have only that concept, you would be what > Jesus was refering to by his so-called " Great Commandment " . (By the > way, I find it impossible to believe that Love could or would give > another a Commandment....perhaps a Loving Suggestion? > > I find peace in remembering that " Love does not always appear kind. " > At least, not until I do The Work and let The Heart tell the mind > what is true. > > Blessings, Steve D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Ollie: Your comments were real eye-openers to me. You're right, I DO carry a lot o= f baggage around, tons and tons of it, and I don't know how to put it down. I wanted you to know that I've printed out your post and I'll be doing inqu= iry on it using the things you've asked me. Thanks. > Thank you for *your* work Daisy, and thank you, , for *your* > thoughts. > > Am 23.07.2004 um 07:15 schrieb daisytrench: > > > I have a lot of trouble with thinking that things should be > > different. I'm posting my inquiry work. Obviously I haven't got it > > all figured out as yet. I'm no longer a Christian, but I was raised > > that way, and it still affects the way I think, > The way you were raised affects the way you think. > Is that true? If you were raised differently, you would *not* think the > way you are thinking now. Can you *absolutely* know that that is true? > That sounds like a *BIG* luggage you are carrying around. > Look at what you get for that thought: a childhood, people responsible > for the way you were raised, a meaning for all the things they did, for > each of them, a *long* past… > And do you even know if it is true? Or do you carry all that *weight* > in pure innocence, because you don't know how to gently put it down and > rest for… *now*? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Dear Love The Work: Thank you for responding to my post. I still don't understand, though, as you will see below: > do you know why your statements above are unpeaceful? > > It's because they argue with reality. The truth is that mothers do > neglect their children, sometimes. Fathers do abandon their families, > sometimes. Corporate executives do steal from their employees, > sometimes. People do cheat, steal and murder, sometimes. > But they SHOULDN'T. I'm stuck in believing that " the way things should be " is a goal that we should strive for. Otherwise, why go into a helping profession at all? Why be a doctor unless you want to help others not be sick? Why be a lawyer unless you want to help bring justice and fairness to the world? (You can see that I'm an innocent naif here, thinking only of pure motivations!) Why be a teacher unless you want to open the world of knowledge to kids and help them reach for the stars? Why be a counselor unless you want to help others overcome their problems? Why run a School for The Work unless you believe that Doing The Work is the best way to be? If there is a Best Way to Be, then there is a Should. Thanks for bearing with me as I get all this sorted out. > From a LWI perspective to argue with reality is insane, because no > matter what you do you can NEVER change it. Christian gropus have > been trying change the world for the last two thousand years, and > have you noticed people still cheat, steal and murder. This does not > mean that one should condone confused behaviour, it's just that > believing a lie like people shouldn't kill others is painful, because > the reality is that they do. > > Also my feelings about rape, stealing and murder arise not from those > acts, but from the thoughts (stories) I have about those actions. > Without a story that killing was " wrong " I could witness an execution > and acknowledge what is without any negative feelings. From that > peaceful place I could be much more effective if I was moved to try > to stop the execution from happening at all. By loving what is I > place myself in the optimal position to act in the world if I am > moved to do so, rather than acting out of the confusion of anger or > fear. > > > Loving what is ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > Can a turnaround for " i look forward to christ return " be " I look > forward to realizing Christ has already returned " I found this to be a fantastic, exciting, mind-blowing thought. Thank you Elialegau! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Steve, your post was wonderful, as your posts always are! Thank you. > Dear , > > You said: > > " I look forward to Christ's return. I think of the things I can do to > make the world a better place. I am upset with the things in my own > life that are not as God wants them to be. " > > Here are some turnarounds: > > " I look forward to my return. " > " I think of the things I can do to make " my mind " a better place. " > " I am NOT upset with the things in my own life that are as God wants > them to be. " > " I am upset with the things in my own life that are as God wants them > to be. " > > Steve D. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Why run a School for The Work unless you believe that Doing The Work is the best way to be? *****This question assumes that there is a choice. There isn't. There never was. One runs a School for The Work because one can't do otherwise. People do things, and then they explain " why " afterwards. The " whys " are simply stories we tell ourselves and others, to keep the flimsy fabric of an apparently chaotic 'beingness' from possibly becoming too overwhelming. Another answer to your question is: one runs a School for the Work because for *that* particular person, it is the " best way to be. " But why conclude that it is the " best way to be " for anyone else? This living is quite an individual thing (despite the fact that there are no individuals). If there is a Best Way to Be, then there is a Should. *****Again, however one is being at any moment IS the " Best Way to Be. " But it may not be the " Best Way To Be " in the next moment. And each of these " Bests " is valid only for the individual under scrutiny. What is " best " for is not necessarily so for Steve or Jan or Andy. That's why we have vanilla AND chocolate ice cream! :-))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I DO carry a lot of baggage around, tons and tons of it, and I don't know how to put it down. ***** ~ you didn't create the baggage and you didn't elect to " own " it. You can't put it down, although at some point it may the tapes which comprise the baggage may cease to run. At the moment you ARE the baggage, see? To put it down is to cease being . Afterwards, the possibilities are limitless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Andy said: " That's why we have vanilla AND chocolate ice cream! :-))) " Ice Cream!!! MMMMMMM > Why run a School for The Work unless you believe that Doing The Work > is the best way to be? > > > *****This question assumes that there is a choice. There isn't. > There never was. One runs a School for The Work because one can't do > otherwise. People do things, and then they explain " why " > afterwards. The " whys " are simply stories we tell ourselves and > others, to keep the flimsy fabric of an apparently > chaotic 'beingness' from possibly becoming too overwhelming. Another > answer to your question is: one runs a School for the Work because > for *that* particular person, it is the " best way to be. " But why > conclude that it is the " best way to be " for anyone else? This > living is quite an individual thing (despite the fact that there are > no individuals). > > > If there is a Best Way to Be, then there is a Should. > > *****Again, however one is being at any moment IS the " Best Way to > Be. " But it may not be the " Best Way To Be " in the next moment. And > each of these " Bests " is valid only for the individual under > scrutiny. What is " best " for is not necessarily so for Steve > or Jan or Andy. That's why we have vanilla AND chocolate ice > cream! :-))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 > Andy said: " That's why we have vanilla AND chocolate ice > cream! :-))) " > > Ice Cream!!! MMMMMMM *****Steve ~ Seeing your post I was all geared up for something profound. Or, perhaps (the thought went), you were going to take me to task for something I had just writ. :-)) Reading your unexpected response, a BIG, warm smile spread across my face. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Andy, You are welcome! My pleasure. Are you feeling guilty about something you just writ? Steve D. > > > Andy said: " That's why we have vanilla AND chocolate ice > > cream! :-))) " > > > > Ice Cream!!! MMMMMMM > > > *****Steve ~ Seeing your post I was all geared up for something > profound. Or, perhaps (the thought went), you were going to take me > to task for something I had just writ. :-)) > > Reading your unexpected response, a BIG, warm smile spread across my > face. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Dear Daisy, Am 23.07.2004 um 09:03 schrieb lovetheworkofbk: > > > > > Things should be different. Mothers shouldn't neglect their > > children. Fathers shouldn't abandon their families. Corporate > > executives shouldn't steal from their employees. No one should > > cheat or steal or murder. These still sound right and true to me. These thoughts, do you experience that they change something? And what does the world you perceive look like? Are there mothers that neglect their children? Fathers that abandon their families? People stealing or murdering? It is not even arguing with reality, but with your own perception - wich does look pretty real to us. So what I experience is that you first undo the stories about what should not happen, and *then* come to see, that they don't happen at all. Or not. Love, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 So what I experience is that you first undo the stories about what should not happen, and *then* come to see, that ###they don't happen at all.### hi Please explain your last sentence Tami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Dear Tami, take it slowly. Make step for step. And don't believe anything anyone tells you. Believe yourself. Inquire. Love, Am 31.07.2004 um 23:04 schrieb Tami: > > > If I believe that there should be world peace, then I hurt > everytime I > > think there isn't. > > If I then inquire into " there should be world peace " , I come to see > > that it is a lie, because it is not what I perceive. > > > > And eventually I come to see that there has always been world > peace, I > > just didn't recognize it. > > ### BIG JUMP, I DIDN'T FOLLOW THAT ONE, > YOU COME TO SEE THAT THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN WORLD PEACE? > > The only place I can find it true is only within yourself. > That was what you ment? > > I in peace - I project it to the world > and the world is in peace. > People killing each other, I am not in there business > it is not my problem, it doesnt affect me. > They are killing each other but I dont tell " the story " > that it is war... > > Am i not getting something here? > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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