Re: Organic valley raw milk cheese -- was First Time

[Guest guest]

Del,

I seem to remember somewhere that someone contacted Organic Valley and

asked them if their cheese was heated. They said yes. They called it

raw only because in pasteurization the milk is heated to 160 degrees

farenheit, and OV only heated it to 155 degrees. That's why they called

it raw. Now I may be remembering wrong, but I think this was the case.

Delano Eaton wrote:

> Wisconsin raw milk cheese is made by www.organicvalley.com. It is

> found in most good health food stores around the country. Ingredients:

> Organic cultured unpasteurized, milk, salt, enzymes. I think I paid

> about 3 something for 8 oz. I don't look at the price that often. It's

> just one of those foods that I HAVE to have.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Del

>

[Guest guest]

and Del,

I had heard that same thing about Organic Valley heating their milk for raw milk cheese. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to find any other "raw" cheeses out there that we can afford to stock in our store. Our customers want raw - but most aren't willing to pay between 10-19 dollars a pound. We're hoping to find something between the 4-6 dollar range - but are starting to realize that it just isn't going to happen.

Janet

Del,I seem to remember somewhere that someone contacted Organic Valley and asked them if their cheese was heated. They said yes. They called it raw only because in pasteurization the milk is heated to 160 degrees farenheit, and OV only heated it to 155 degrees. That's why they called it raw. Now I may be remembering wrong, but I think this was the case.

[Guest guest]

Guess I need to check that out. Thanks. What is the highest temp to

heat cheese that does not destroy the enzymes??

Del

>

> > Wisconsin raw milk cheese is made by www.organicvalley.com. It is

> > found in most good health food stores around the country. Ingredients:

> > Organic cultured unpasteurized, milk, salt, enzymes. I think I paid

> > about 3 something for 8 oz. I don't look at the price that often. It's

> > just one of those foods that I HAVE to have.

> >

> > Hope this helps,

> >

> > Del

> >

[Guest guest]

I think remember someone in my milk club specifically called or

wrote a letter or something to Organic Valley asking if their cheese

and butter were raw and they told her yes. I will try to track her

down to verify.

Barbara

[Guest guest]

I believe that the highest temp. to heat milk to before enzymes are

denatured is 118 degrees Fahrenheit. But there is a lot of controversy

about that. But they are most certainly all gone at 155 degrees.

Definitely worth checking into. Raw does not necessarily always mean

raw. Just gotta check out the claims.

A good blurb on enzymes:

http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/enzymes.htm

http://www.allaboutenzymes.com

Delano Eaton wrote:

Guess I need to check that out. Thanks. What is the highest temp to

heat cheese that does not destroy the enzymes??

Del

>

> > Wisconsin raw milk cheese is made by www.organicvalley.com.

It is

> > found in most good health food stores around the country.

Ingredients:

> > Organic cultured unpasteurized, milk, salt, enzymes. I think

I paid

> > about 3 something for 8 oz. I don't look at the price that

often. It's

> > just one of those foods that I HAVE to have.

> >

> > Hope this helps,

> >

> > Del

> >

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

[Guest guest]

At least I have a back up for getting real raw cheese(At least I think

it's real). I will be making a trip there (5 hours round trip) next

week to pick up my raw milk, cream and cheese. I will have to ask. I

am going to really miss my Wisconsin raw cheese!

Del

> > >

> > > > Wisconsin raw milk cheese is made by www.organicvalley.com. It is

> > > > found in most good health food stores around the country.

Ingredients:

> > > > Organic cultured unpasteurized, milk, salt, enzymes. I think I

paid

> > > > about 3 something for 8 oz. I don't look at the price that

often. It's

> > > > just one of those foods that I HAVE to have.

> > > >

> > > > Hope this helps,

> > > >

> > > > Del

> > > >

> >

> >

> >

> > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Try this link to check out The Swan Dairy in Ok.

http://www.tiawah.com/swandairy.htm

This cheese really is awesome. I just hope that it is really raw.

Del

> and Del,

> I had heard that same thing about Organic Valley heating their milk

for raw milk cheese. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to find any

other " raw " cheeses out there that we can afford to stock in our

store. Our customers want raw - but most aren't willing to pay

between 10-19 dollars a pound. We're hoping to find something between

the 4-6 dollar range - but are starting to realize that it just isn't

going to happen.

> Janet

>

>

> Del,

> I seem to remember somewhere that someone contacted Organic

Valley and

> asked them if their cheese was heated. They said yes. They

called it

> raw only because in pasteurization the milk is heated to 160

degrees

> farenheit, and OV only heated it to 155 degrees. That's why

they called

> it raw. Now I may be remembering wrong, but I think this was

the case.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello group,

I posted about raw milk cheeses in this group around 2 months ago

(see message # 1246) and will post the copy below. I also see

and Barbara mention about Connie and Stuart Veldhuizen. We also get

cheese, milk and cream from them and can vote for it. Their cheese

is really raw and tastes great.

Here is the copy of the message I wrote about raw cheese:

The " Organic Valley Raw Sharp Cheddar Cheese " is not really raw.

Last year there were discussions about this on the native nutrition

group. Some of the people e-mailed the " Organic Valley " and asked if

the milk used for raw cheese has been heated. The reply from them

stated that " The milk used to make our raw milk cheese is " heat-

treated " meaning it is brought to the threshold of pasteurization

without actually being pasteurized (155° for 15 seconds) " . Tillamook

calls the milk used for their cheddar " heat shocked " . They state

that " Milk intended for cheddaring is heated to 152°F and held for

30 seconds at that temperature. Because of this process, we are

required to cure our cheddar cheese for a minimum of 60 days prior

to marketing. "

The same is valid for many European cheeses which are sold as raw

but the milk used to make them has been heated to some degree. I

know, you must wonder how they can heat it so much and still call it

raw. According to the FDA definition " pasteurized milk is one which

has been heat treated at 162F for 15 seconds " . So if I sell

milk/cheese which has been treated to 155-160F for 10-15 seconds, in

the eye of the FDA this product is " raw " . Since in the last few

years there has been increased demand for raw milk products,

manufacturers try to cash on this and still stay out of trouble with

the FDA.I did a search in the archives of native-nutrition group and

found a post containing the reply from the " Organic Valley " company:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/native-nutrition/message/12309

There are really raw cheeses on the market but you must look harder

to find them. Some of the farms will ship within the continental US.

You can look for producers on the real milk web site. Expect to pay

a lot more for cheese like this. These artisan cheesemakers will

typically own a small herd which milk they use. In that way they

have contol over the breeds, diet and health of the animals. The

quality of the milk is very important in the cheesemaking. Inferior

milk would produce inferior cheeses. There are many more factors

that affect the quality of the end product. Heating the milk

eliminates many of them and creates consistent products suited for

industrial production. Cheesemaking is an art.

Marieta

[Guest guest]

i specifiy low temp or not for all my prodcuts.....that clarifies

www.MajestyFarm.comNorth Garden, Virginia

Re: Re: Organic valley raw milk cheese -- was First Time

I believe that the highest temp. to heat milk to before enzymes are denatured is 118 degrees Fahrenheit. But there is a lot of controversy about that. But they are most certainly all gone at 155 degrees. Definitely worth checking into. Raw does not necessarily always mean raw. Just gotta check out the claims.A good blurb on enzymes:http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/enzymes.htmhttp://www.allaboutenzymes.comDelano Eaton wrote:

Guess I need to check that out. Thanks. What is the highest temp toheat cheese that does not destroy the enzymes??Del> > > Wisconsin raw milk cheese is made by www.organicvalley.com. It is> > found in most good health food stores around the country. Ingredients:> > Organic cultured unpasteurized, milk, salt, enzymes. I think I paid> > about 3 something for 8 oz. I don't look at the price that often. It's> > just one of those foods that I HAVE to have.> >> > Hope this helps,> >> > Del> >PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

[Guest guest]

Janet, could somebody from your shareholders make it and sell it in

your store?

> and Del,

> I had heard that same thing about Organic Valley heating their milk

for raw milk cheese. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to find any

other " raw " cheeses out there that we can afford to stock in our

store. Our customers want raw - but most aren't willing to pay

between 10-19 dollars a pound. We're hoping to find something

between the 4-6 dollar range - but are starting to realize that it

just isn't going to happen.

> Janet

>

>

> Del,

> I seem to remember somewhere that someone contacted Organic

Valley and

> asked them if their cheese was heated. They said yes. They

called it

> raw only because in pasteurization the milk is heated to 160

degrees

> farenheit, and OV only heated it to 155 degrees. That's why

they called

> it raw. Now I may be remembering wrong, but I think this was

the case.

>

[Guest guest]

Marieta,

I called organic valley that makes the Wisconsin cheese this morning

(1-28-04) and they said the same thing as what you are saying. Yes,

they DO heat the cheese to 155 degrees. My dh is on his way to OK as I

type this (5 hour round trip) to get real raw cheese. I called them

also this morning and they DO NOT heat the raw cheese. We don't like

the raw cheddar but all the others are wonderful.

Del

> Hello group,

>

> I posted about raw milk cheeses in this group around 2 months ago

> (see message # 1246) and will post the copy below. I also see

> and Barbara mention about Connie and Stuart Veldhuizen. We also get

> cheese, milk and cream from them and can vote for it. Their cheese

> is really raw and tastes great.

>

> Here is the copy of the message I wrote about raw cheese:

>

> The " Organic Valley Raw Sharp Cheddar Cheese " is not really raw.

> Last year there were discussions about this on the native nutrition

> group. Some of the people e-mailed the " Organic Valley " and asked if

> the milk used for raw cheese has been heated. The reply from them

> stated that " The milk used to make our raw milk cheese is " heat-

> treated " meaning it is brought to the threshold of pasteurization

> without actually being pasteurized (155° for 15 seconds) " . Tillamook

> calls the milk used for their cheddar " heat shocked " . They state

> that " Milk intended for cheddaring is heated to 152°F and held for

> 30 seconds at that temperature. Because of this process, we are

> required to cure our cheddar cheese for a minimum of 60 days prior

> to marketing. "

>

> The same is valid for many European cheeses which are sold as raw

> but the milk used to make them has been heated to some degree. I

> know, you must wonder how they can heat it so much and still call it

> raw. According to the FDA definition " pasteurized milk is one which

> has been heat treated at 162F for 15 seconds " . So if I sell

> milk/cheese which has been treated to 155-160F for 10-15 seconds, in

> the eye of the FDA this product is " raw " . Since in the last few

> years there has been increased demand for raw milk products,

> manufacturers try to cash on this and still stay out of trouble with

> the FDA.I did a search in the archives of native-nutrition group and

> found a post containing the reply from the " Organic Valley " company:

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/native-nutrition/message/12309

>

> There are really raw cheeses on the market but you must look harder

> to find them. Some of the farms will ship within the continental US.

> You can look for producers on the real milk web site. Expect to pay

> a lot more for cheese like this. These artisan cheesemakers will

> typically own a small herd which milk they use. In that way they

> have contol over the breeds, diet and health of the animals. The

> quality of the milk is very important in the cheesemaking. Inferior

> milk would produce inferior cheeses. There are many more factors

> that affect the quality of the end product. Heating the milk

> eliminates many of them and creates consistent products suited for

> industrial production. Cheesemaking is an art.

>

> Marieta

[Guest guest]

This is from Oranic Valley

Dear Chris

Yes it is. Legally, any milk that is not pasteurized is considered raw milk.

The milk used to produce Organic Valley Raw Milk Cheese is not heated to

pasteurization temperatures. It is " heat-treated " meaning it is brought to

the threshold of pasteurization without actually being pasteurized (155

degrees for 15 seconds). Pasteurization of milk occurs when the milk is

heated for a specified time at a specific temperature, which results in the

legally mandated bacterial elimination. Organic Valley pasteurized milk

products are heated to 161.5 degrees F for 15 seconds.

FDA labeling requirements are either raw or pasteurized. To find a true raw

milk it would probably be coming from a farmstead operation. Most

conventional cheese on the market are heat treated to some level.

Sincerely,

Organic Valley/CROPP ative

Consumer Relations

1- ext 437

[Guest guest]

Holly,

I suppose they could - since our store is set up specifically for share holders anyway. Hmmm... know anyone that makes good, raw cheeses???

Janet

Janet, could somebody from your shareholders make it and sell it in your store?

[Guest guest]

I'm confused by this whole issue. Why on earth would they go to the bother of "heat treating" their milk - and claim it's raw. Why don't they just make raw??? Maybe it's something to do with what Greener Pastures told us - the paperwork required by the state is just too bothersome. But - again - if that's the case - and their cheese is considered raw by the state, wouldn't they still be required to do the paperwork???

I don't know, but to me this just doesn't make sense! I may have to call them myself to ask this question.

Opinions? Ideas? Anyone?

Janet

This is from Oranic ValleyDear ChrisYes it is. Legally, any milk that is not pasteurized is considered raw milk.The milk used to produce Organic Valley Raw Milk Cheese is not heated topasteurization temperatures. It is "heat-treated" meaning it is brought tothe threshold of pasteurization without actually being pasteurized (155degrees for 15 seconds). Pasteurization of milk occurs when the milk isheated for a specified time at a specific temperature, which results in thelegally mandated bacterial elimination. Organic Valley pasteurized milkproducts are heated to 161.5 degrees F for 15 seconds.FDA labeling requirements are either raw or pasteurized. To find a true rawmilk it would probably be coming from a farmstead operation. Mostconventional cheese on the market are heat treated to some level.Sincerely,Organic Valley/CROPP ativeConsumer Relations1- ext 437

[Guest guest]

Janet,

> I'm confused by this whole issue. Why on earth would they go to

the bother of " heat treating " their milk - and claim it's raw.

Heat treating the milk will eliminate a lot of the bacteria present

in the raw milk. Notice that they heat to almost pasteurization

temperature. " Organic Valley " is a cooperative and uses milk from

its members. This means that there are more chances for

contamination to occur in the pulled milk. A small cheesemaker will

use milk produced only by his own herd.

Why they claim it's raw? - Because " raw " creates more sales. There

has been increased demand in raw milk products in the last years

because of the work of the Weston Price foundation. They(big

companies) want to cash on both markets (raw & pasteurized) with

minimum " work " on their side. Here is a citation from the " Organic

Valley " reply about their cheese:

What are the Benefits of Organic Valley Raw Milk Cheese?

Since we do not heat our milk to pasteurization temperatures, the

resulting minimally processed raw milk cheeses contain milk enzymes

not present in pasteurized cheese.

Is Organic Valley Raw Milk Cheese Safe for My Children and Me?

The milk used to make our raw milk cheese is " heat-treated " meaning

it is brought to the threshold of pasteurization without actually

being pasteurized (155° for 15 seconds).

With 2 words: They try to convince you as a customer that raw cheese

is superior to pasteurized, and during the same time they assure you

that their product is safe and does not have the problems associated

with unpasteurized products because they heat the milk to almost

pasteurization!

Marieta

[Guest guest]

I get a lot of my varieties from these folks (they ship!):

http://www.meadowcreekdairy.com/

Anyone else know them? Until this conversation started, it never

occurred to me to ask about heating - but I will now (unless someone else

here also uses them and already knows the answer)!

At 09:27 AM 1/28/04 -0000, Marieta wrote:

>There are really raw cheeses on the market but you must look harder

>to find them. Some of the farms will ship within the continental US.

>You can look for producers on the real milk web site. Expect to pay

>a lot more for cheese like this. These artisan cheesemakers will

>typically own a small herd which milk they use. In that way they

>have contol over the breeds, diet and health of the animals. The

>quality of the milk is very important in the cheesemaking. Inferior

>milk would produce inferior cheeses. There are many more factors

>that affect the quality of the end product. Heating the milk

>eliminates many of them and creates consistent products suited for

>industrial production. Cheesemaking is an art.

MFJ

Any moment in which you feel like dancing is a perfect moment.

[Guest guest]

They definitely say their cheese is raw, unpasteurized on their

website. I use them too and their Mountaineer cheese is some of the

best I have EVER tasted in my life. I've tried calling them about

heating, just now, but no answer so far.

mfjewett wrote:

> I get a lot of my varieties from these folks (they ship!):

>

> http://www.meadowcreekdairy.com/

>

> Anyone else know them? Until this conversation started, it never

> occurred to me to ask about heating - but I will now (unless someone else

> here also uses them and already knows the answer)!

[Guest guest]

Yep. And based on what someone else said (can't remember who, sorry, but

thanks, whoever said it!) about the " true " raw cheeses being made from

people's own herds, I'm betting that I'm okay there.

I love the Mountaineer too - also the Appalachian select - but I have some

of just about every flavor floating around here somewhere. Was

disappointed when they stopped doing the feta though (just before I found

them).

I've always been a fan of what my buddy at the deli calls " stanky cheese " ,

so being forced ... FORCED, I tell ya!!! ... to stick to raw cheeses was a

wonderful thing. I've found that even the mildest raw cheese can get

quite yummily stanky if I let it sit around in the fridge long enough.

Thanks for checking with them, too! Let me know what you find out (yeah,

right, like you'd get the answer and then NOT tell us? Sheesh *shakes

head at self*)

At 05:27 PM 1/28/04 -0600, you wrote:

>They definitely say their cheese is raw, unpasteurized on their

>website. I use them too and their Mountaineer cheese is some of the

>best I have EVER tasted in my life. I've tried calling them about

>heating, just now, but no answer so far.

>

MFJ

Any moment in which you feel like dancing is a perfect moment.

[Guest guest]

Okay, I’m not a cheese making expert,

however, I”ve never found a recipe for cheese

or yogurt where you didn’t have to heat it. We have tried several of the recipes at

Fiasco Farm, http://fiascofarm.com/recipes/index.html,

and all of these require heating. From

their website, the people at Fiasco Farm advocate drinking and eating raw milk

products. Therefore, I am assuming

they only heat their milk when making cheese and yogurt. I can’t remember how high it was

stated that Organic Valley heats their milk but I think that is normal when

making cheese. Any

thoughts on this?

~Candace

Re: Re:

Organic valley raw milk cheese -- was First Time

They definitely say their cheese is raw, unpasteurized

on their

website. I use them too and their Mountaineer

cheese is some of the

best I have EVER tasted in my life. I've

tried calling them about

heating, just now, but no answer so far.

mfjewett wrote:

> I get a lot of my varieties from these folks

(they ship!):

>

> http://www.meadowcreekdairy.com/

>

> Anyone else know

them? Until this conversation started, it never

> occurred to me to ask about heating - but I

will now (unless someone else

> here also uses them and already knows the

answer)!

PLEASE BE

KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

Yahoo!

Groups Links

·

To visit your group on the

web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/

·

[Guest guest]

Candace,

I did look at some of the recipes listed on the Fiasco Farm web

site. They only warm the milk in most of them. There is a big

difference between warming to 80-100-110 degrees or heating to 150F

as the big companies do.

The milk coming from the animal is warm. I think around 100-102F. So

warming the cold milk to these low temperatures will not destroy its

properties. There are some cheeses that can be made only through

heating the milk to a specific temperature. However most cheeses can

be made by using raw warm milk.

I did look for their yogurt directions. They give you the 2 methods -

traditional and raw. Under raw they state to heat the milk to 115F.

115 degree is far from pasteurization temperature. Also you don't

need to heat to 115F. The reason for this recommendation is that the

bacteria responsible for yogurt fermentation grows best in the 104-

113F temperature interval. If you use lower temperature other

bacteria present in milk can overtake the L.Bulgaricus and

S.Thermophilus and create inferior product. However I never warm my

milk. I just pour it cold in the jars with starter and place the

jars in pot with warm water. Then keep the water warm during the

first hours. This accomplish the same.

Marieta

> Okay, I'm not a cheese making expert, however, I " ve never found a

recipe

> for cheese or yogurt where you didn't have to heat it. We have

tried

> several of the recipes at Fiasco Farm, HYPERLINK

> " http://fiascofarm.com/recipes/index.html " http://fiascofarm.com/rec

ipes/

> index.html, and all of these require heating. From their website,

the

> people at Fiasco Farm advocate drinking and eating raw milk

products.

> Therefore, I am assuming they only heat their milk when making

cheese

> and yogurt. I can't remember how high it was stated that Organic

Valley

> heats their milk but I think that is normal when making cheese.

Any

> thoughts on this?

>

> ~Candace