Changing threads...avoiding unpleasantness (a/k/a it's all about image) [was: CIH Bashing & Ethics]

[Guest guest]

Jack, and other esteemed gentlemen,

As a matter of general information, and according to my e-mail records, the "CIH Bathing and Ethics" began as a post by Mr. s on 7/17, as a thread titled "Another CIH Story". On 7/22 Mr. Havics, himself a CIH, changed the title to the current "CIH Bashing..." in which he raised some issues, that in my opinion were a bit nit picky & snide, questioning whether or not certain inconsequential behavior such as referring to a book or books published by an individual on a discussion board was ethical, as well as questioning the validity of the credentials of an institution of higher learning.

I find it interesting that I responded to Mr. Havics 7/22 post with some very specific questions regarding Consultants and Ethics, that in my opinion were of a far more serious nature than the issues he raised, to which he has yet to respond. Perhaps he has his reasons...

It might appear that Mr. Havics was attempting to deflect and dilute the "CIH Story" issues raised by Mr. s, yet when directly questioned about other behavioral issues that most professionals in the field (regardless of educational credentials) would likely agree are far more unethical than those raised by Mr. s (and followed up by others), Mr. Havics vanished from the conversation, and it eventually evolved (or not) to it's present line of discussion.

Yes, we have some REAL and serious ethical issues in this business, that are not limited to CIHs or LMNOPs but are serious nonetheless, and that span the range of Contractors, Consultants, Inspectors, Investigators and other labels with a plethora of alphabet soup attached to their names.

I can't help but wonder if someone would behave toward a colleague as was described in my 7/27 post, how might they behave toward a lowly Client and their concerns? Are we as Professionals more interested in helping clients to identify solve problems, or is the prevalent attitude and motivation all about the money, while covering one's own butt? Just how low will some of the "Professionals" in this business stoop, when it comes to financial gain, and minimizing accountability, regardless of letters after their names, or the level of education they have attained? Sadly, I suspect that we've only just begun to scratch the surface in discussing these issues, and in my experience neither letters, nor educational level in any way are a guarantee of competence OR honesty.

So how about we stop squabbling about the crumbs? Does anyone actually have the courage to get into the meat of the problems? I tried, but nobody picked up the ball.

Hmmm...wonder what that means?

Cheers,

Chuck Reaney, CIAetc.

Re: Changing threads/discussions without changing subject line [was: CIH Bashing & Ethics - Original discussion]Alice, I DID change the topic to separate it from the one that had nothing to do with CIH bashing or credentials, now, thanx to JK changing it to "changing it"!, the subject has nothing to do with Wane's and my discussion. Maybe you can re-send Wanes and mine with a proper subject? Credentils, etc.Thanx.> >> > Great questions, .> >> > I worked very hard to earn my licensure as an engineer, and perhaps> > harder in some ways to become a CIH.> >> > But based on your experience, whether it's my credentials, those of Dr.> > Thrasher, or your own, apparently it's all meaningless.> >> > So how does the public differentiate the pretenders from the real pros> > among us?> >> > I'm sincerely hoping that you have the answer.> >> > Wane> >> > <><><><><><><><><><><>> > Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH> > Division Manager, Senior Consultant> > MICHAELS ENGINEERING> > St. , La Crosse, Madison> > Phone > > Cell > > Fax > > mailto:wab@> > On the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com> > <http://www.michaelsengineering.com/>> > "To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be> > more fun?"> > - Graham> >> > Please see my LinkedIn Public Profile, here:> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/wanebaker> >> >> > Re: CIH Bashing & Ethics> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iequality/message/22180;_ylc=X3oDMTJzYTdw> > dW44BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyMzg3NDc1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTE0NgRtc2dJ> > ZAMyMjE4MARzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMzEzMDIxODcx>> > Posted by: "" scottarmour@> > <mailto:scottarmour@?Subject=> > Re%3A%20CIH%20Bashing%20%26%20Ethics> scottarmour@> > <http://profiles.yahoo.com/scottarmour@>> > Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:51 am (PDT)> > Wane, others,> > This discussion has troubled me for some time. It actually is a mere> > summary of the problem throughout our industry, ney, our society.> > It concerns expertise and ability.> > I am not an engineer, neither trained nor schooled nor accredited.> > How is it then that I often can provide solutions that are from the> > realm of the "engineer". How is it that I can find and prove flaws in> > engineer's reports or opinion?> > I have experience, knowledge of the basics, knowledge of the specifics,> > and am intelligent.> > As are many others. The civil engineer who solves a health issue, the> > medical doctor who solves an engineering problem.> > It doesn't require credentialed or Labeled expertise to solve a problem.> > Of course, the argument gets difficult when I am the one confronted with> > someone not of my ilk claiming to know better than I! The easy thing to> > do is simply prove them wrong.> > The real problem is the arrogance, the audacity, the pretense, of those> > who merely claim to know what they are talking about!> > Those are the people that are the true problem, they are the ones> > confusing the public.> > How does one find the truth? By accreditation? by label? by schooling?> > by initials after a last name?> >>