Re: New Member

[Guest guest]

Sorry!! I meant INCI...

Bobryk

San Clemente Soap Factory

http://www.sanclementesoapfactory.com/

[Guest guest]

>I am a new member to the group, just wanted to introduce myself and

>ask a few question right away! My name is Scharlau, live in

>Milwaukee WI.

Welcome!

> Started out doing cp soap, am now delving into the

>wonderful world of cosmetic chemistry. I make lotion, creme, body

>spray, linen spray, and am now working on shampoo's and conditioners.

>I ordered 150 lbs. of Croda's Incroquat CR concentrate to use as a

>condtioner base,

Good choice to get started. For list members wanting to learn more

about Incroquat CR Concentrate, go to

http://www.crodausa.com/datasheets/IncroquatCRConcentrateDS82.pdf

>and have ordered the chemistry store's HEB free

>surfactant blend. Has anyone ever worked with that particular blend?

>It says to modify viscosity with citric acid intstead of salt. Have

>not recieved it yet, but am looking forward to playing with it.

I went to the Chemistry Store website and the only I could find is

Blend HEB-Plus-Herbal Shampoo, Bubble Bath, Bath Gel and Hand Soap

Concentrate

http://www.chemistrystore.com/shampoo_concentrates.htm

The website says the " [v]iscosity can be adjusted with the addition of

sodium chloride or by modification of the Blend HEB-PLUS/water ratio.

typically, viscosities as high as 12,000 cps may be achieved with a 20%

dilution. the pH adjustment can be made with citric acid to the desired

pH. "

This seems to be different from the stuff that you ordered. Do you

have a URL?

>ÿ This is a baby question, but could anyone tell me the ideal ph for

>lotion/ cremes- (I never understood why you want to bring it down-

>why isn't around 7 good for skin if that's the ph of skin?),

A lotion/cream that has a pH of 7 is fine. But if you had to find the

" ideal " pH for a lotion, it would be lower, closer to the skin's acid

mantle (4 to 6). What follows was taken from the message archives.

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 16:08:59 -0700, Pat & Des Prenty wrote:

>Weÿ have heard for years the propaganda from some cosmetic companies that

>their product has a balanced ph of 7 but I know that in certain

>circumstances, using products with a ph of over 9.5 is acceptable.ÿ But can

>anyone tell me what the limit would be for skin safety.

>I am not sure if this kind of information is even available from a non

>professional list, but here's hoping.

from an earlier post on a similar subject:

>>Those of us who use or make handmade soap have to question why we find our

>>products mild and acceptable to our skin without recourse to these persistent

>>myths that only a product that is of a similar pH to skin, and that does not

>>disturb the skin's 'acid mantel' etc is the only possible way to achieve

>>this.ÿ

>

>Sometime ago, I remember attending an annual meeting of the American

>Dermatological Association (ADA) and there was a paper presented by a

>company called Beiersdorf.ÿ They showed that the pH of the skin was

>higher after using an alkaline soap but the acid mantle returned soon

>after exposure.

>

>Out of curiosity, I did a MEDLINE search for

>

>Acid mantle and pH

>

>And found the following selected abstracts:ÿ (pay close attention to

>the last abstract)

>

>_______

>

>Generation of free fatty acids from phospholipids regulates stratum

>corneum acidification and integrity.

>

>Fluhr JW, Kao J, Jain M, Ahn SK, Feingold KR, Elias PM.

>

>J Invest Dermatol. 2001 Jul;117(1):44-51.

>

>Comment in:

>

>J Invest Dermatol. 2001 Jul;117(1):2, 170. PMID: 11482303

>

>Dermatology Service, Veterans Affairs Medical Center, and Department of

>Dermatology, University of California, San Francisco, USA.

>

>There is evidence that the " acid mantle " of the stratum corneum is

>important for both permeability barrier formation and cutaneous

>antimicrobial defense. The origin of the acidic pH of the stratum

>corneum remains conjectural, however. Both passive (e.g.,

>eccrine/sebaceous secretions, proteolytic) and active (e.g., proton

>pumps) mechanisms have been proposed. We assessed here whether the free

>fatty acid pool, which is derived from phospholipase-mediated

>hydrolysis of phospholipids during cornification, contributes to

>stratum corneum acidification and function. Topical applications of two

>chemically unrelated secretory phospholipase sPLA2 inhibitors,

>bromphenacylbromide and

>1-hexadecyl-3-trifluoroethylglycero-sn-2-phosphomethanol, for 3 d

>produced an increase in the pH of murine skin surface that was

>paralleled not only by a permeability barrier abnormality but also

>altered stratum corneum integrity (number of strippings required to

>break the barrier) and decreased stratum corneum cohesion (protein

>weight removed per stripping). Not only stratum corneum pH but also all

>of the functional abnormalities normalized when either palmitic,

>stearic, or linoleic acids were coapplied with the inhibitors.

>Moreover, exposure of intact murine stratum corneum to a neutral pH for

>as little as 3 h produced comparable abnormalities in stratum corneum

>integrity and cohesion, and further amplified the inhibitor-induced

>functional alterations. Furthermore, short-term applications of an

>acidic pH buffer to inhibitor-treated skin also reversed the

>abnormalities in stratum corneum integrity and cohesion, despite the

>ongoing decrease in free fatty acid levels. Finally, the

>secretory-phospholipase-inhibitor-induced alterations in

>integrity/cohesion were in accordance with premature dissolution of

>desmosomes, demonstrated both by electron microscopy and by reduced

>desmoglein 1 levels in the stratum corneum (shown by immunofluorescence

>staining and visualized by confocal microscopy). Together, these

>results demonstrate: (i) the importance of

>phospholipid-to-free-fatty-acid processing for normal stratum corneum

>acidification; and (ii) the potentially important role of this pathway

>not only for barrier homeostasis but also for the dual functions of

>stratum corneum integrity and cohesion.

>

>-------

>

>The pH gradient over the stratum corneum differs in X-linked recessive

>and autosomal dominant ichthyosis: a clue to the molecular origin of

>the " acid skin mantle " ?

>

>Ohman H, Vahlquist A.

>

>J Invest Dermatol. 1998 Oct;111(4):674-7.

>

>Department of Biomedicine and Surgery, University Hospital, Linkoping,

>Sweden.

>

>In a search for pathogenetic mechanisms underlying retention

>hyperkeratosis, we examined the pH gradient over the stratum corneum in

>13 male patients suffering from either x-linked recessive (XRI) or

>autosomal dominant ichthyosis vulgaris. For recording pH values, a flat

>glass electrode was repeatedly applied to the skin during tape

>stripping of mildly involved forearm skin. Before stripping, surface pH

>was higher in ichthyosis vulgaris (5.3 +/- 0.7; n = 7) than in XRI (4.6

>+/- 0.4; n = 6; p < 0.05) and healthy control men (4.5 +/- 0.2; n = 7;

>p < 0.01). Removal of stratum corneum, which required 100-240

>strippings in ichthyotic skin and 80-120 strippings in healthy control

>skin, disclosed markedly different pH variations in the two types of

>ichthyosis. The major abnormality in ichthyosis vulgaris skin was that

>a neutral pH was attained already halfway through the horny layer,

>possibly reflecting a congenital lack of acidic breakdown products from

>keratohyaline. By contrast, stripping of XRI skin revealed a shallow pH

>gradient that plateaued at 6.2-6.6, instead of about 7 as in normal and

>ichthyosis vulgaris skin. A likely explanation is the XRI-associated

>accumulation of cholesterol sulfate in lower stratum corneum. Our

>results suggest that the " acid mantle " of normal skin, which penetrates

>deep into the stratum corneum, is the combined result of

>cornification-associated organic acids and back-diffusion of acid

>material from the surface. Because corneocyte desquamation involves

>many pH-dependent enzymes, abnormalities in the transcorneal pH

>gradient might play a role in the pathogenesis of ichthyosis.

>

>-----------

>

>Effects of soap and detergents on skin surface pH, stratum corneum

>hydration and fat content in infants.

>

>Gfatter R, Hackl P, Braun F.

>

>Dermatology. 1997;195(3):258-62.

>

>Department of Pediatrics, University of Vienna, School of Medicine,

>Austria.

>

>BACKGROUND: In adults the influence of cleansing preparations on the

>pH, fat content and hydration of the skin is well documented. Studies

>in newborn and small infants have not been reported. OBJECTIVE: Our

>study aimed at examining whether similar effects can be ascertained in

>infants. METHODS: Infants without skin disease, aged 2 weeks to 16

>months, entered an open, controlled and randomized study. Ten infants

>each had skin washed with tap water (control group), liquid detergent

>(pH 5.5), compact detergent (pH 5.5) or alkaline soap (pH 9.5). The pH,

>fat content and hydration were measured before and 10 min after

>cleansing. Findings were statistically evaluated by parametric

>covariance analysis. RESULTS: The skin pH increased from an average of

>6.60 after cleansing in all groups. The smallest increase (+0.19) was

>observed in the control group, the largest (+0.45) after washing with

>alkaline soap. After treatment with liquid or compact detergent, the

>increase of the pH was only 0.09 higher than for the control group. In

>comparison to the compact and liquid detergents, the alkaline soap

>group had a significantly higher increase in pH. The fat content (mean

>starting value: 4.34 micrograms/cm2) decreased after washing in all

>groups; the smallest effect was observed in the control group (decrease

>of 0.93 micrograms/cm2), the highest for the alkaline soap group

>(decrease of 4.81 micrograms/cm2). In comparison to the compact and

>liquid detergents, the alkaline soap group had a higher decrease in fat

>content. This difference was significant for compact detergents. No

>statistically significant differences were observed for hydration

>before versus after washing. CONCLUSION: Each cleansing agent, even

>normal tap water, influences the skin surface. The increase of the skin

>pH irritates the physiological protective 'acid mantle', changes the

>composition of the cutaneous bacterial flora and the activity of

>enzymes in the upper epidermis, which have an acid pH optimum. The

>dissolution of fat from the skin surface may influence the hydration

>status leading to a dry and squamous skin.

>

>----------

>

>In vivo studies concerning a pH gradient in human stratum corneum and

>upper epidermis.

>

>Ohman H, Vahlquist A.

>

>Acta Derm Venereol. 1994 Sep;74(5):375-9.

>

>Department of Dermatology, University Hospital, Linkoping, Sweden.

>

>Human skin has an acid mantle of pH 4-6, contrasting with the almost

>neutral pH of the interior body and implying the existence of a pH

>gradient over the horny layer that might influence a variety of

>epidermal processes. In an attempt to characterize the pH gradient, we

>applied a glass electrode to the volar surface of the forearm before

>and after consecutive strippings with sello-tape. Before stripping, the

>surface pH (mean +/- SD) was 4.5 +/- 0.2 in men (n = 7) and 5.3 +/- 0.5

>in women (n = 7), the values gradually increasing to pH 6.9 +/- 0.4 in

>men and 6.8 +/- 0.5 in women after about 100-120 tape strippings, which

>completely removed the stratum corneum. When plotted against the number

>of strippings, the pH values usually conformed to a sigmoid curve with

>inflection (50% change) after about 60 strippings, at a level

>corresponding histologically to the lower third of stratum corneum.

>Similar gradients were found also in skin of the abdomen and calf.

>Stripping with cyanoacrylate resin produced a similar gradient, even

>though this form of stripping was 10 times more effective. The healing

>process after tape stripping was studied by determining pH and

>transepidermal water loss in 5 persons over a period of 14 days. The

>importance of the re-established pH gradient is discussed in relation

>to the many pH-dependent enzymes operating in stratum corneum.

>

>---------

>

>Effect of pH on the production of irritation in a chamber irritation

>test.

>

>Murahata RI, Toton-Quinn R, Finkey MB.

>

>J Am Acad Dermatol. 1988 Jan;18(1 Pt 1):62-6.

>

>Department of New Science and Technology, Dial Technical Center,

>sdale, AZ 85254.

>

>This study was designed to investigate the relationship between

>alteration of skin surface pH and the development of skin irritation.

>Application of a phosphate/borate/acetate buffer adjusted to pH

>4.0-10.5 in a standard chamber irritation test did not result in

>significant clinical irritation. This was true in spite of maintaining

>a markedly altered skin surface pH over an extended period of time.

>There was also no correlation between irritation and the pH of applied

>surfactant solutions. These results demonstrate that a prolonged

>disturbance of the " acid mantle " is not sufficient to produce clinical

>irritation.

> ideal ph

>for shampoo, and for condtioner.

The ideal pH for shampoos and conditioners is between 5 and 6.5.

>ÿ I want to add aminos and proteins to the shampoos and conditioners-

>I know amino's penetrate cuticle and proteins coat it, but which is

>more desirable for which product?

Most " proteins " sold for cosmetic purposes are actually protein

polypeptides, protein fragments. Some cosmetic proteins will penetrate

the cuticle and go into the hair's cortex.

>In a shampoo, would the protein

>just get washed away?

In a shampoo, most would wash away. Some could penetrate and some

could be substantive to the hair.

>Would the amino acid have time to penetrate?

I would think that most of the amino acids would be washed away.

>Or

>are these useless ingrediants for a shampoo?

Looks good on the label. That's not useless.

>Also, for my whole product line I do in home parties, with fragrance

>free products, then have 2 oz. amber glass dropper bottles with the

>FO's and EO's to mix in with customers choice of scent. I know

>different FO's can mess with the formulations, any suggestions for

>stabalizers?

No.

Maurice

--------------------------------------------------------

Maurice O. Hevey

Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com

-------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi am good thanks. My name is Terri and we only have one child,

Abigail Grace. We call her Abby. She was diagnosed with MDS soon

after she was born but we just got the report back. Seems the

Doctors dont think there is any difference in DS so we weren't told

about her having MDS. There feeling is DS is DS. She is 7 months

old and doing great. Right now we have no questions but i am sure

we will soon. Still a little overwhelmed!

> Welcome aboard...

> Please, tell us more about yourself and your precious baby!!!

>

> My name is Angel, I'm the mom of 6 kids, my son is 11 now

and has MDS.

> We live in southern California.

>

> Do you have any specific questions about MDS? We'd love to help

ya out

> anyway we can!

>

>

> ~ANGEL~

>

>

> Mom to 11 Mosaic Down Syndrome/Hirschsprung's Disease

> Lance 16, Tyler 12, 9

> Jaeda 8 & Shayne 2

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi thanks, I am Terri and my daughter is Abigail Grace, we call her

Abby. She is 7 months old and is so great! We live in Plano, Texas

in the Dallas area. Right now we don't have any questions i guess

we are just wondering about having other children. Did you get any

genetic counceling after having your Son? We are struggeling with

what to do. I am 37 and know that the odds just go up the older i

get. Any advice?

> My child was born on 1/5/04 and was diagnosed with Mosaic Down

> Syndrome.

> I want to know more about it.

>

>

>

> Won't you please consider adding your personal story on the MDS

website today? http://www.mosaicdownsyndrome.com

> *************************************************

> Become a member of IMDSA at http://www.imdsa.com

> *************************************************

> MDS MESSAGE BOARD - http://www.mosaicdownsyndrome.com/discus

> *************************************************

>

[Guest guest]

>

> My problem is IBS...It was said before I was permitted to join that

> IBS is included in this group.

>

> Are there any suggestions?

> Divalee

Hi Lee,

IBS is often associated with sensitivity to wheat, and, gluten which

includes oats, rye, barley and spelt.

The intolerance to wheat/gluten is called celiac. Celiac is much more

common than previously thought.

If you are eating wheat (bread, pasta, pizza crust, cakes, cookies,

pie crust, and, oatmeal, oatmeal cookies, and, most processed foods.

Processed foods include ingredients of which names you won't recognize

which are mostly wheat. Wheat is cheap and adds to weight, by which

processed food is sold.

Google for more information using:

celiac;

gluten sensitivity;

wheat sensitivity.

toni

nr annapolis md

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/CFAlliance/

[Guest guest]

Hello Karisa

I also have IBS and migraines as well..I just started with the IBS about one

year now....Sometimes it goes away and then it comes back full force.....I have

dysthymia as well....and I read that stress can trigger IBS too...

The thing is, I thought I ate pretty well......I eat a lot of Dandelions,

Romaine Lettuce...Radicchio, I have chicken once a week....Sockeyed Wild Red

Pacific Salmon...I don't eat junk food....never have a coke, etc. One thing I

do though....is I eat so fast you'd think it was my last meal....I am trying to

eat slower and chew.....lol....very difficult but I am doing it...

I am glad to be here.....and I hope everyone will find a solution to all of your

physical problems.

Stay well, and keep a song in your heart

Divalee

>

> Welcome to the group Lee.  And let it be paid no pain is insignifacant.  Pain

is pain. I have IBS, GERD, Migraines on occasion(I've learned how to keep them

to a minimum), FM and back pain from and injury I had when I was 15.  As for the

IBS  i found eating lots of raw veggies helps. Granted most don't love veggies

like I do.  I was a vegan for 5 years and love my veggies.  But broccoli and

kale seemed to help me the most.  If you have any questions feel free to email

personally.  Once again welcome to the group and Take care.

> Karisa

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the welcome

Divalee

>

> Welcome to our little family, IBS I think many of us can relate, I know I

> can and I have to make this Short lol

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the welcome, Margie.....I hope I can find a solution.....It is

weird because sometimes it just goes away..then it comes back full force.....

I am glad to be here too....I am sure I will learn at lot.

Divalee

Keep a song in your heart

>

> Welcome Lee! I'm glad you're here and have posted. I hope someone will be

able to help. I had trouble with IBS in the 90s but, for reasons unknown,

haven't had those symptoms except rarely the last 10 years or so. I am sorry

that you have to struggle with it.

[Guest guest]

Thank you .....I am very glad to be here.

Divalee

>

> Sorry I dont have much input because I dont have IBS but one thing a friend

recently did was to have a food elimation study done took 3 months with an

immunologist I really cant do that at the moment to see if foods make a

difference to my condition but she found that it really helped her discover

certain things that affected her pain badly and some that made her really sick

in hospital even because they affeced her blood pressure.

[Guest guest]

Hello Toni

I am Italian....lol...I love Pasta and Bread.....White ...I stay away from whole

wheat altogether....Pasta and Bread are the only wheat products I

eat....everything else Is vegetables, fruits and chicken which I buy fresh....I

eat no junk food....no sodas, I cook my own meals.....never buy boxed food or

frozen dinners.

So what am I doing wrong....The one thing I do wrong is...eat too fast, and I

know that is one of the things I should not do. Eat slower and chew

well....sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. Could stress trigger IBS as well?

I have read that it does.

I am happy to be here among people who actually do have IBS...

Thank you Toni

Divalee

Keep a song in your heart

>

> Hi Lee,

>

> IBS is often associated with sensitivity to wheat, and, gluten which

> includes oats, rye, barley and spelt.

>

> The intolerance to wheat/gluten is called celiac. Celiac is much more

> common than previously thought.

>

> If you are eating wheat (bread, pasta, pizza crust, cakes, cookies,

> pie crust, and, oatmeal, oatmeal cookies, and, most processed foods.

> Processed foods include ingredients of which names you won't recognize

> which are mostly wheat. Wheat is cheap and adds to weight, by which

> processed food is sold.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Lee,

Welcome.

I've had IBS for over 30 years, mostly constipation, gas and cramps. It is not

as bad now as it used to be, but it flares up now and then.

I find that eating a very high fiber diet is helpful for me. One must gradually

increase fiber in order to avoid cramps and flatulence. It's easy to get

plenty: just eat a high fiber breakfast cereal and whole grains, plus

fresh/frozen veggies and fruit.

Decrease meat and possibly dairy. Dairy can also be a problem with IBS if you

are lactose intolerant. The best way to find out is to eliminate it for a while,

keeping other things constant and see how you do. After a few weeks,

re-introduce one dairy product at a time every few days. See how you do. If you

have symptoms that had disappeared, you have found a reason.

You may have to make some adjustments to find what works best for you. Take it

slowly and I suspect you will soon feel much better. Also, try some relaxation

techniques, since IBS can be influenced by stress, or rather, our reactions to

stress. Walking is good because it helps decrease stress and helps regulate the

digestive system.

Hope this is some help.

Barbara S

>

> Hello everyone.....my name is Lee (female) but so that people will not get

confused if I am female or male...I sign.,,divalee....

>

> I feel so much for all of you. I have been reading the posts for a while and

I feel my problem is so insignificant compared to so many of you, with so much

pain.

>

> My problem is IBS...It was said before I was permitted to join that IBS is

included in this group.

>

> Are there any suggestions...I even went organic, but that did not help either.

>

> Thank you for letting me join this group

>

> Divalee

> Keep a song in your heart

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome, Jack! Good to have you here.

Best,

Chuck Reaney

New Member

I just joined your group and hope that we will all have interesting exchanges regarding indoor air quality. I have become very concerned about the role of bacteria and their toxins and the potential interactions with mycotoxins.Jack Dwayne Thrasher, Ph.D.Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologistwww.drthrasher.orgtoxicologist1@...Cell: Lee Crawley, M.ED., LADCTrauma Specialistsandracrawley@... - CellThis message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message (and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed. Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Chuck

Jack Dwayne Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Cell:

Lee Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

- Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this

message (and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly

prohibited and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this

message has been served, please destroy the original message contents. If

you have received this message in error, please reply immediately to advise

the sender of the miscommunication and then delete the message and any

copies you have printed. Thank you in advance for your compliance.

New Member

I just joined your group and hope that we will all have interesting

exchanges regarding indoor air quality. I have become very concerned about

the role of bacteria and their toxins and the potential interactions with

mycotoxins.

Jack Dwayne Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Cell:

Lee Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

- Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this

message (and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly

prohibited and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this

message has been served, please destroy the original message contents. If

you have received this message in error, please reply immediately to

advise

the sender of the miscommunication and then delete the message and any

copies you have printed. Thank you in advance for your compliance.