Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Hey Sara, It is a matter of time. How long you leave it out. You also don't want to stir it as it's blossoming. Just leave it be in a warm place. If I stir mine, I don't like the result. It should pull away from the edge of the jar when you look in and tilt it sideways, like Jell-O. I would have 4 questions: 1.) What kind of milk are you using? 2.) How many cups of milk to how many tblsp. of grains are you using? 3.) What temp. are you leaving it at? 4.) How long are you letting it sit? Sara wrote: Mike or any one who's an expert on Kefir-making, Can you help please? Another member and I are agreeing we are not pleased with our kefir making efforts. Our kefir no matter what we do keeps turning out runny. What can be the causes for runny kefir? We got ours in November, mine around Thanksgiving. About a week ago, it finally stopped being so yeasty. But it still is thin. I've tried keeping it out on top of the fridge, and in the fridge...no matter either way, it's still thin! Sigh. The grains are populating, I have to make bigger batches but each time my hopes get dashed! Janet, how do you make yours so nice and thick and fizzy? I remember you have a wooden box contraption, but you use that just for your yogurt? TIA, Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Sara, How long are you letting your Kefir "ferment"? I leave mine on the countertop on a gallon glass jar (lightly covered) for about 24-30 hours. Just until I start to see a slight separation - kind of like little bubbles in the Kefir. Then I strain it and start again. You might also try using less milk just to see if that speeds it up a little. Janet Kefir troubleshooting Mike or any one who's an expert on Kefir-making, Can you help please? Another member and I are agreeing we are not pleased with our kefir making efforts. Our kefir no matter what we do keeps turning out runny. What can be the causes for runny kefir? We got ours in November, mine around Thanksgiving. About a week ago, it finally stopped being so yeasty. But it still is thin. I've tried keeping it out on top of the fridge, and in the fridge...no matter either way, it's still thin! Sigh. The grains are populating, I have to make bigger batches but each time my hopes get dashed! Janet, how do you make yours so nice and thick and fizzy? I remember you have a wooden box contraption, but you use that just for your yogurt? TIA, SaraTo learn more about Raw Dairy, visit our home pages at http://www.midvalleyvu.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 > Mike or any one who's an expert on Kefir-making, > Can you help please? Another member and I are agreeing we are not pleased with our kefir making efforts. Our kefir no matter what we do keeps turning out runny. > What can be the causes for runny kefir? We got ours in November, mine around Thanksgiving. About a week ago, it finally stopped being so yeasty. But it still is thin. I've tried keeping it out on top of the fridge, and in the fridge...no matter either way, it's still thin! Sigh. The grains are populating, I have to make bigger batches but each time my hopes get dashed! > Janet, how do you make yours so nice and thick and fizzy? I remember you have a wooden box contraption, but you use that just for your yogurt? > TIA, > Sara @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ I think it's all about temperature. Now that I've lived with my grains through four seasons, I think that temperature is way way more important than any other factors like grains/milk ratio, etc. Around early summer this year my kefir suddenly became amazingly thick and luscious; it was really shocking. Then as the really hot days came it got thin. During this cold weather I would leave the kefir nearby your heater. Also, secondary fermentation (letting it sit out a bit after the grains are out) can help it get thicker sometimes. For the fizz, a tip cap is the only trick needed. I really savor the yeastiness of kefir, and I'm just as happy when it's thin or very sour, so I don't put much effort into guiding my kefir in any particular direction. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Hey Sara, I don't make kefir and can't answer the questions. But someone posted the following 2 links on the native nutrition group sometime ago. The first is Dom's kefir making site: http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/Makekefir.html The second is a kefir based yahoo group : http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Kefir_making/ Marieta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 I debated joining the " fray " here about kefir, but I have made kefir for several years and discovered the major variables are: 1. Temperature 2. Time 3. Ratio of grains to milk 4. whether the container is tightly stoppered or not (5. quality of the raw milk/butterfat content,etc) The thickness of the resulting kefir is mainly a product of #3 - the ratio of the grains to the milk with both #1 and #2 also possibly contributing factors. I frequently have as much as 1 cup of grains to 1 quart of millk. My fermenting is done in a 2 quart jar with a plastic lid that does not seal the kefir tightly. It can be sealed tightly after straining and allowed to sit out for awhile if you want it fizzy. (Be careful not to let it sit out too long, especially if it is made into a smoothie - you will get lots of pressure built up in the jar.) To regulate temperature in the summer heat, I will sometimes put it into a large cooler with a bottle of frozen water to cool it just a little. I use the same cooler in the winter with a heating pad set on " low " to warm the " incubator to about 75 degrees. (I also put my kombucha in this makeshift incubator - with the lid slightly ajar.) I have always let my kefir ferment for 48 hours or more. I like the tang of good sour kefir and knowing that all of the lactose has been converted. It will have completely separated by this time and I agitate it firmly before straining to make it easier to separate the grains from the kefir. I use a plastic collander and wooden spoon for straining, glass containers for fermenting, storing and straining into. And I strongly recommend Dom's kefir site for great info and ideas. We've loved making kefir d'uva and kefir d'aqua. Delicious drinks, but they need to be drunk soon after making! Good luck and have fun! Shan > Mike or any one who's an expert on Kefir-making, > Can you help please? Another member and I are agreeing we are not pleased with our kefir making efforts. Our kefir no matter what we do keeps turning out runny. > What can be the causes for runny kefir? We got ours in November, mine around Thanksgiving. About a week ago, it finally stopped being so yeasty. But it still is thin. I've tried keeping it out on top of the fridge, and in the fridge...no matter either way, it's still thin! Sigh. The grains are populating, I have to make bigger batches but each time my hopes get dashed! > Janet, how do you make yours so nice and thick and fizzy? I remember you have a wooden box contraption, but you use that just for your yogurt? > TIA, > Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 I'm in an old house and the only really warm spots to put my kefir is in front of a heat vent (no way) or on top of the gas stove. I wish the house had radiators, but it has an oil furnace in the basement instead. The gas stove has two pilot lights between the burners. The metal stovetop above the pilot light is quite warm all the time, as the pilot lights burn nonstop. The metal is too warm to touch for more than a second. I've tried putting mason jars for kefir on top of the metal and it works but I'm afraid it's too hot to be optimal. The top of the glass is warm and the bottom is a bit hot (where it touches the metal of the stove). I guess my question is, what's the upper limit temp for kefir making, and will the conducted heat distribute evenly through the kefir or, as I fear, is the milk at the bottom going to be consistently much hotter than that at the top? I really can't think of a better place to put the jars, short of buying a special kefir heater. Tom A picnic cooler with some hot/boiling water in the bottom and towels or blankets covering the cooler to keep it warm. Have also found the top of our water heater to be helpful in keeping some things warm but not too hot. Belinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 I'm in an old house and the only really warm spots to put my kefir is in front of a heat vent (no way) or on top of the gas stove. I wish the house had radiators, but it has an oil furnace in the basement instead. The gas stove has two pilot lights between the burners. The metal stovetop above the pilot light is quite warm all the time, as the pilot lights burn nonstop. The metal is too warm to touch for more than a second. I've tried putting mason jars for kefir on top of the metal and it works but I'm afraid it's too hot to be optimal. The top of the glass is warm and the bottom is a bit hot (where it touches the metal of the stove). I guess my question is, what's the upper limit temp for kefir making, and will the conducted heat distribute evenly through the kefir or, as I fear, is the milk at the bottom going to be consistently much hotter than that at the top? I really can't think of a better place to put the jars, short of buying a special kefir heater. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 You might try putting a pot of water over the pilot light and putting the jar of kefir in that, it will distribute the heat more evenly. Angel -----Original Message-----From: Tom Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 2:08 PMTo: RawDairy Subject: Re: Kefir troubleshootingI'm in an old house and the only really warm spots to put my kefir isin front of a heat vent (no way) or on top of the gas stove. I wishthe house had radiators, but it has an oil furnace in the basementinstead.The gas stove has two pilot lights between the burners. The metalstovetop above the pilot light is quite warm all the time, as thepilot lights burn nonstop. The metal is too warm to touch for morethan a second. I've tried putting mason jars for kefir on top of themetal and it works but I'm afraid it's too hot to be optimal. The topof the glass is warm and the bottom is a bit hot (where it touches themetal of the stove). I guess my question is, what's the upper limittemp for kefir making, and will the conducted heat distribute evenlythrough the kefir or, as I fear, is the milk at the bottom going to beconsistently much hotter than that at the top? I really can't think ofa better place to put the jars, short of buying a special kefir heater.TomTo learn more about Raw Dairy, visit our home pages at http://www.midvalleyvu.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 You could make a warming box. Use a cardboard box, line with aluminum foil put in a light bulb (I use a shop light fixture) check temp in box with various wattage bulbs till you get the temp you desire. Amy Re: Kefir troubleshooting I'm in an old house and the only really warm spots to put my kefir isin front of a heat vent (no way) or on top of the gas stove. I wishthe house had radiators, but it has an oil furnace in the basementinstead.The gas stove has two pilot lights between the burners. The metalstovetop above the pilot light is quite warm all the time, as thepilot lights burn nonstop. The metal is too warm to touch for morethan a second. I've tried putting mason jars for kefir on top of themetal and it works but I'm afraid it's too hot to be optimal. The topof the glass is warm and the bottom is a bit hot (where it touches themetal of the stove). I guess my question is, what's the upper limittemp for kefir making, and will the conducted heat distribute evenlythrough the kefir or, as I fear, is the milk at the bottom going to beconsistently much hotter than that at the top? I really can't think ofa better place to put the jars, short of buying a special kefir heater.TomTo learn more about Raw Dairy, visit our home pages at http://www.midvalleyvu.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 Thanks for all the great ideas, all. I think I'll try this one first. Tom > You might try putting a pot of water over the pilot light and putting > the jar of kefir in that, it will distribute the heat more evenly. > > > Angel > > Re: Kefir troubleshooting > > > I'm in an old house and the only really warm spots to put my kefir is > in front of a heat vent (no way) or on top of the gas stove. I wish > the house had radiators, but it has an oil furnace in the basement > instead. > > The gas stove has two pilot lights between the burners. The metal > stovetop above the pilot light is quite warm all the time, as the > pilot lights burn nonstop. The metal is too warm to touch for more > than a second. I've tried putting mason jars for kefir on top of the > metal and it works but I'm afraid it's too hot to be optimal. The top > of the glass is warm and the bottom is a bit hot (where it touches the > metal of the stove). I guess my question is, what's the upper limit > temp for kefir making, and will the conducted heat distribute evenly > through the kefir or, as I fear, is the milk at the bottom going to be > consistently much hotter than that at the top? I really can't think of > a better place to put the jars, short of buying a special kefir heater. > > Tom > > > > To learn more about Raw Dairy, visit our home pages at > http://www.midvalleyvu.com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > I'm in an old house and the only really warm spots to put my kefir is > in front of a heat vent (no way) or on top of the gas stove. I wish > the house had radiators, but it has an oil furnace in the basement > instead. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ A heat vent sounds perfect, no? I heat my home with a wood stove and I put my kefir a few feet away. I also keep a thermometer nearby so I know it's not getting too hot. It sounds like way too much trouble to build contraptions and things when judicious placement does the trick. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > The gas stove has two pilot lights between the burners. The metal > stovetop above the pilot light is quite warm all the time, as the > pilot lights burn nonstop. The metal is too warm to touch for more > than a second. I've tried putting mason jars for kefir on top of the > metal and it works but I'm afraid it's too hot to be optimal. The top > of the glass is warm and the bottom is a bit hot (where it touches the > metal of the stove). I guess my question is, what's the upper limit > temp for kefir making, and will the conducted heat distribute evenly > through the kefir or, as I fear, is the milk at the bottom going to be > consistently much hotter than that at the top? I really can't think of > a better place to put the jars, short of buying a special kefir heater. > > Tom @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ I think it's a bad idea to put it on the stovetop for two reasons. One is that I put mine near the stove on the counter once and didn't think to move it when I was running one of the burners once and the kefir got way too hot, even making me worry I killed my grains (they're fine). Of course that's not an inherent obstacle, just the risk of absentmindedness. The other thought is simply that I share your guess that the bottom of the would get too hot if it's too hot to the touch. Good luck, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 > > A heat vent sounds perfect, no? I heat my home with a wood stove and > I put my kefir a few feet away. I also keep a thermometer nearby so > I know it's not getting too hot. It sounds like way too much > trouble to build contraptions and things when judicious placement > does the trick. Nah, because the heat, when it is on, comes blowing out really hot, and because it's only on periodically due to the thermostat, the temp of the kefir would fluctuate wildly. Plus, I'd have to build a contraption to hold the jars off the floor and at the height of the vent. > > I think it's a bad idea to put it on the stovetop for two reasons. > One is that I put mine near the stove on the counter once and didn't > think to move it when I was running one of the burners once and the > kefir got way too hot, even making me worry I killed my grains > (they're fine). Of course that's not an inherent obstacle, just the > risk of absentmindedness. The other thought is simply that I share > your guess that the bottom of the would get too hot if it's too hot > to the touch. > > Good luck, > Mike Yeah, I'm going to buy a thermometer to monitor the temp, but I'm going to try putting the jars in a pan of water on the stove, with the water level at least half as high as the jar, which should keep it evenly heated. Another thought I just had was to put the jars in the oven, with the oven off. I think it probably is about 70-85 degrees in there with the pilot light on. Might be the easiest way, albeit the riskiest, as I have a roommate who makes frozen pizza (yeesh) often and he preheats the oven without glancing inside (why would he?).... Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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