Re: Re: Meds Issue; Armour/T3...Any Ideas???

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jan!!!!

I went to the site and looked at all the postings for Pucillo and he sure looks like he'd be a good choice for me, especially since he takes Armour himself and treats adrenal/hormone issues.

Not only that, he accepts our current Aena HMO and our new insurance as of 1/1/09 CIGNA HMO. That alone is a minor miracle. Dr. White is out of network for me but still an option if this doesn't work out. BOTH are closer than Dr. Alavi, who is north of the 10 in Houston.

Steph S.

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups From: texasthyroid@...Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 18:22:25 +0000Subject: Re: Meds Issue; Armour/T3...Any Ideas???

If I were in the Houston area, I would see Pucillo or White, both on our list.

> > Hi Gals, I need some feedback....As I suspected my FREE T4 levels plummetted on T3 therapy alone (started in May). I've gone from FREE T4 of 1.4, which was droppping about .1 every six weeks. But the last 6 weeks it went from .9 to .5, now below range. I suppose there is no big surprise there. In short....I feel beyond AWFUL!!!!! I've had the cardiac Holter monitor on for 24 hours and will have the Nuclear Stress Treadmill Test on Monday (if I can garner up the strength to even do it!!!). If I'm too weak, the cardiologist said they will inject me with a chemical that will stimulate the heart in lieu of actually walking on the treadmill. My last labs (taken before meds) on 10/13 showed TSH 1.7 (range .6-1.21)FREE T3 243 (range 230-420)FREE T4 .5 (range .6-1.1)Ferritin 59.1Iron, Serum 88 TIBC 426 (range 250-478)Transferrin 272 (range 171-363) I've been on low dose of Armour for 2 weeks now. I started with 7.5 mg. a day first week, then to 7.5 mg. twice a day the second week. But, I can't seem to sustain the total of 15 mg. a day. I had to lower my T3 from 15 mcg. timed release to 10 mg. of timed release as well, because I'm having all kinds of increased symptoms of dizzyness, unsteady'head full of jello' feelingincreased weaknessincreased heart rate (resting 90-110)increased heart palpitationsIncreased neurological tingling/burning in muscles I tried increasing my hydrocortisone slightly thinking maybe my adrenals can't keep up and that just seemed to make the symptoms worse. I've tried monitoring my temperature as well. It starts out at around 98.0 or so in the morning, sometimes coming up to 98.4-6 by about 10 a.m. . Today I took 7.5 mg. of Armour and just 5 mcg. of T3 timed release and it came up to 98.8, but now it's falling again. I skipped my 7.5 mg. of Armour last night and I seemed to have slightly LESS symptoms today. I took my 7.5 before breakfast today. It just seems I am hypersensitive to thyroid meds and I'm beyond frustrated. I should be feeling BETTER, not worse, IMHO...... My doc is stumped and has pretty much left things to my discression, which is fine on the one hand, but aggravating on the other. SO.....you think that I just have to go SUPER slow in increasing my T4/Armour again? For those that have adrenal problems have you had the same experience??? And, here's an interesting question......I started taking Iodoral 12.5 mg. tabs a few months ago. I don't have Hashi's or any antibodies to speak of....(measured numerous times). But, my FREE T3 levels are EXACTLY the same as they were in May (measured before meds in the morning). Always at the every low end of range. But, it seems that I am converting the SAME amount of T3 whether my FREE T4 levels are 1.4 or .5 as they are now. I would think that T3 levels would go down accordingly. I take my T3 timed release in the morning, so could that much still be in my system the NEXT morning, to account for the same levels. Any ideas? Steph S.See how Windows Mobile brings your life together—at home, work, or on the go. See Now

[Guest guest]

If you take Armour sublingually, which many of us do, digestion should not matter, as the Armour is taken into the bloodstream underneath the tongue. Fibrojay

..... I was thinking about this when I got up. Some days it really effects me and some days it is like I haven't taken it. I remembered something that I had read about 6 months ago and this may be something else to keep in mind. I read that you have to 'digest' the Armour. This may not sound like a big deal but If you have an ulcer or don't produce enough stomach acid for any reason this could affect the dosage you are getting. I can tell when I take Pepcid for my stomach it affects the way I react to the Armour. But it always takes a few days for it to really show up. So it may not be that obvious. Two weeks ago I was feeling pretty good but this week I can not get out of bed and stay out of bed. I almost have been falling asleep at my desk. I have never done that. My girlfriend calls it the 'afternoon wilting'.... I think that is a good way to describe it. My friend doesn't produce enough stomach acid. So this may be something else to keep in mind. I can't believe I forgot it. If I find that article again I will post it.

<<<I'm one of the people that cannot tolerate Armour - there are some of us supersensitive folks that have odd reactions - mine was not dissimilar - it would dramatically worsen all my symptoms. I do very well with a combination of T4 and cytomel - I do take the cytomel 3x per day, but I like the flexibility of when I take the 2nd and 3rd doses. If I have a busy nite ahead, I will take the 2nd dose of T3 later. If I've had a busy morning and an equally busy afternoon, I need my 2nd dose at 11:00 am and my 3rd dose as early as 2:00 pm. I personally am suspicous about the consistency of the compounded T3, as I never felt totally well on the same dosages for which I now use the commercial synthetics. I figured out that Armour was the problem because I still had some of the synthetic T4 and T3 to play with, so I was alternating between the two. >>> Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!

[Guest guest]

,

I was hoping you'd weigh in on this. Can I ask what kind/brand of T4 are you using? I'm starting to wonder whether that could be part of the problem for me.

I definitely will be making an appointment with Dr. Pucillo to transition over from my other doctors. I can list him as my primary care, which will help.

I've decided, at least for now, not to go back to Dr. Alavi. After a year I've had no appreciable improvement, despite 1000's of dollars spent, There were no 'alarm bells' that seem to go off in their office regarding the fact that my FREE T4 went from 1.4 down to .5 and I'd just HAD an appointment with her (to the tune of $250.00 out-of-pocket) and she wanted me to have ANOTHER appointment to discuss the latest labs. Anyone could see that I need T4?!?! And, the fact that she argued with me the last appointment that it was 'good my FREE T4 levels came down because they matched better my low FREE T3', seemed beyond ridiculous. And when I told her that many of the ladies that I 'correspond' with feel better when FREE T4 is in the higher range, she poo-pooed it. I wanted to give her an honest chance and time enough to figure out what was wrong, but I feel we're at the end of her expertise.

So onward and upward. I had my Nuclear Stress Test this morning and so far so good. I was able to get through the treadmill part and Dr. McClamroch said he saw nothing unusual. Which is really amazing since I was having major heart palps before, during and after?? My EKG in his office showed nothing unusual either, so I 'm going to assume for the moment that this is thyroid/adrenal related. The results of the Holter Monitor and the heart/vein/valve imaging will be back later this week.

Steph S.

> To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:41:13 +0000> Subject: Re: Meds Issue; Armour/T3...Any Ideas???> > I'm one of the people that cannot tolerate Armour - there are some > of us supersensitive folks that have odd reactions - mine was not > dissimilar - it would dramatically worsen all my symptoms. I do > very well with a combination of T4 and cytomel - I do take the > cytomel 3x per day, but I like the flexibility of when I take the > 2nd and 3rd doses. If I have a busy nite ahead, I will take the 2nd > dose of T3 later. If I've had a busy morning and an equally busy > afternoon, I need my 2nd dose at 11:00 am and my 3rd dose as early > as 2:00 pm. > > I personally am suspicous about the consistency of the compounded > T3, as I never felt totally well on the same dosages for which I now > use the commercial synthetics. I figured out that Armour was the > problem because I still had some of the synthetic T4 and T3 to play > with, so I was alternating between the two. > > Just my experiences, but for the super sensitive this might be > applicable. > > I've also yet to find anyone that over time does well on T3 only. > Unfortunately, it's the mainstay therapy at Fibro and Fatigue > centers. I had several friends spending tons of money on all sorts > of alternative treatments when all they need was some Armour or T4. > > B. > > > >> > > > Hi Gals,> > > > I need some feedback....As I suspected my FREE T4 levels > plummetted on T3 therapy alone (started in May). I've gone from FREE > T4 of 1.4, which was droppping about .1 every six weeks. But the > last 6 weeks it went from .9 to .5, now below range. I suppose there > is no big surprise there. In short....I feel beyond AWFUL!!!!! I've > had the cardiac Holter monitor on for 24 hours and will have the > Nuclear Stress Treadmill Test on Monday (if I can garner up the > strength to even do it!!!). If I'm too weak, the cardiologist said > they will inject me with a chemical that will stimulate the heart in > lieu of actually walking on the treadmill.> > > > My last labs (taken before meds) on 10/13 showed> > > > TSH 1.7 (range .6-1.21)> > FREE T3 243 (range 230-420)> > FREE T4 .5 (range .6-1.1)> > Ferritin 59.1> > Iron, Serum 88 > > TIBC 426 (range 250-478)> > Transferrin 272 (range 171-363)> > > > I've been on low dose of Armour for 2 weeks now. I started with > 7.5 mg. a day first week, then to 7.5 mg. twice a day the second > week. But, I can't seem to sustain the total of 15 mg. a day. I had > to lower my T3 from 15 mcg. timed release to 10 mg. of timed release > as well, because I'm having all kinds of increased symptoms of> > > > dizzyness, unsteady> > 'head full of jello' feeling> > increased weakness> > increased heart rate (resting 90-110)> > increased heart palpitations> > Increased neurological tingling/burning in muscles> > > > I tried increasing my hydrocortisone slightly thinking maybe my > adrenals can't keep up and that just seemed to make the symptoms > worse. I've tried monitoring my temperature as well. It starts out > at around 98.0 or so in the morning, sometimes coming up to 98.4-6 > by about 10 a.m. . Today I took 7.5 mg. of Armour and just 5 mcg. of > T3 timed release and it came up to 98.8, but now it's falling again.> > > > I skipped my 7.5 mg. of Armour last night and I seemed to have > slightly LESS symptoms today. I took my 7.5 before breakfast today. > It just seems I am hypersensitive to thyroid meds and I'm beyond > frustrated. I should be feeling BETTER, not worse, IMHO......> > > > My doc is stumped and has pretty much left things to my > discression, which is fine on the one hand, but aggravating on the > other.> > > > SO.....you think that I just have to go SUPER slow in increasing > my T4/Armour again? For those that have adrenal problems have you > had the same experience???> > > > And, here's an interesting question......I started taking Iodoral > 12.5 mg. tabs a few months ago. I don't have Hashi's or any > antibodies to speak of....(measured numerous times). But, my FREE T3 > levels are EXACTLY the same as they were in May (measured before > meds in the morning). Always at the every low end of range. But, it > seems that I am converting the SAME amount of T3 whether my FREE T4 > levels are 1.4 or .5 as they are now. I would think that T3 levels > would go down accordingly. I take my T3 timed release in the > morning, so could that much still be in my system the NEXT morning, > to account for the same levels. Any ideas?> > > > Steph S.> > _________________________________________________________________> > See how Windows Mobile brings your life together—at home, work, or > on the go.> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/> >> > > > ------------------------------------> >

[Guest guest]

nne,

That's REALLY interesting. It would be easy enough for me to just stop the Iodoral for awhile and see if it helps. I found it perplexing why, when I started the Iodoral my FREE T4 went down so dramatically and in such a short time since it had only been dropping slightly every 6 weeks. This morning my 'resting' heart rate was 110, just sitting at the kitchen table. Unfortunately, almost everything stresses my adrenals, so this would make sense. The Iodoral was suggested by the doc I am now 'firing', so I'll start back at square one.

Thanks,

Steph S.> To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups > Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:51:26 +0000> Subject: Re: Meds Issue; Armour/T3...Any Ideas???> > Hi ,> > I was reading your post and noticed that you started taking Iodoral. I> couldn't take it at all. Even 1/2 of a 12.5 tablet would start my heart> to race and palpatations I tried to take it several times and each time> afterward my adrenals would really tank. I don't have any antibodies> either. The doctor decided my adrenals were being stressed. I take> just 45 mgs of Armour, but I don't take cortisol. Hope you find some> relief.> > nne>

[Guest guest]

--

No, regular Armour. Many of us take Armour sublingually. It has to be Armour, which has no coating, and not Naturethroid or Westthroid, both which have coatings. Just stick it under your tongue and let it dissolve. My three grains take about 10 minutes (I take the other three grains at 2 pm).

Fibrojay

Fibrojay.... I did not know you could get it sublingually??? Is it a special prescription???

<<<<If you take Armour sublingually, which many of us do, digestion should not matter, as the Armour is taken into the bloodstream underneath the tongue. Fibrojay Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!

[Guest guest]

I do this with my Armour. Does this work for T4 (synthroid), too?

From:

Texas_Thyroid_Groups

[mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of fibrojay@...

Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:56 PM

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re: Re: Meds Issue; Armour/T3...Any

Ideas???

--

No, regular Armour. Many of us take Armour

sublingually. It has to be Armour, which has no coating, and not

Naturethroid or Westthroid, both which have coatings. Just stick it under

your tongue and let it dissolve. My three grains take about 10 minutes (I

take the other three grains at 2 pm).

Fibrojay

In a message dated 11/4/2008 8:14:53 P.M. Romance Standard Time,

my1squeakyshoe@... writes:

Fibrojay.... I did not know you could get it

sublingually??? Is it a special prescription???

<<<<If you take Armour sublingually, which

many of us do, digestion should not

matter, as the Armour is taken into the bloodstream underneath the tongue.

Fibrojay

Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check

out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!

[Guest guest]

You cannot take tablets that have a coating sublingually. They won't dissolve; your system won't absorb them properly. I've never used Synthroid, so I don't know. But others have said you cannot. Fibrojay

I do this with my Armour. Does this work for T4 (synthroid), too?

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of fibrojay@...Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:56 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: Re: Re: Meds Issue; Armour/T3...Any Ideas???

--

No, regular Armour. Many of us take Armour sublingually. It has to be Armour, which has no coating, and not Naturethroid or Westthroid, both which have coatings. Just stick it under your tongue and let it dissolve. My three grains take about 10 minutes (I take the other three grains at 2 pm).

Fibrojay

Fibrojay.... I did not know you could get it sublingually??? Is it a special prescription???

<<<<If you take Armour sublingually, which many of us do, digestion should not matter, as the Armour is taken into the bloodstream underneath the tongue. Fibrojay

Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!

Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!

[Guest guest]

I’ve been doing it and it dissolves, but I don’t know if it

affects how well it is absorbed. I can’t tell if it has a coating or not. I

guess I can swallow it instead, but will probably have supplement or food

issues with that.

From:

Texas_Thyroid_Groups

[mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of fibrojay@...

Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:36 AM

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re: Re: Meds Issue; Armour/T3...Any

Ideas???

You cannot take tablets that have a coating sublingually.

They won't dissolve; your system won't absorb them properly. I've never

used Synthroid, so I don't know. But others have said you cannot.

Fibrojay

In a message dated 11/5/2008 3:54:49 A.M. Romance Standard Time,

joyingrace@... writes:

I do this with my Armour. Does

this work for T4 (synthroid), too?

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ]

On Behalf Of fibrojay@...

Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:56 PM

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: Re: Re: Meds Issue; Armour/T3...Any

Ideas???

--

No, regular Armour. Many of us take

Armour sublingually. It has to be Armour, which has no coating, and not

Naturethroid or Westthroid, both which have coatings. Just stick it under

your tongue and let it dissolve. My three grains take about 10 minutes (I

take the other three grains at 2 pm).

Fibrojay

In a message dated 11/4/2008 8:14:53 P.M.

Romance Standard Time, my1squeakyshoe@... writes:

Fibrojay....

I did not know you could get it sublingually??? Is it a special

prescription???

<<<<If

you take Armour sublingually, which many of us do, digestion should not

matter, as the Armour is taken into the bloodstream underneath the tongue.

Fibrojay

Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check

out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!

Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check

out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!

[Guest guest]

Yep, Dr. Pucillo is accepting new patients. I have my first visit with his office on November 17th, however when I called mid-week last week they said they could actually see me as early as the 10th! However, be advised that you don't actually see Dr. Pucillo on the first visit. They have another woman doctor or a physician's assistant who take the patient history, etc. I told them it would be better if I saw the woman Dr. because I have a pretty complicated case and they said that would be just fine.

As they explained it to me, you can see Dr. Pucillo on the second visit and any subsequent visits, but because he's in such high demand they try to screen patients that actually don't need his expertise right away. He has a weight loss clinic as well on site, so that may have something to do with it. I also noticed on his web site that they have a part timer, another assistant, Ed Colon, which is coincidental because he also works part time as my previous PCP doctor's office, STMC in Rosenberg.

Steph S.

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups From: houstonthyroid@...Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 12:17:02 +0000Subject: Re: Meds Issue; Armour/T3...Any Ideas???

WOW, a doctor in Houston (well, Sugar Land) who not only prescribes Armour but takes it himself? Is he taking new patients?

I'm fed up with Dr. Lynn Gibbs and will not be going back to see him. I went for a follow-up appointment in late October that was supposed to be at 4:00 p.m. I got there at 3:40 and waited...and waited. Finally, at about 5:15 a medical assistant came out and told everyone in the waiting area that Dr. Gibbs was running TWO HOURS behind (and someone couldn't have told me that when I signed in at 3:40?). That was the last straw. I was already considering a radical doctorectomy after my last appointment in June when he called me "one of the Hotze brigade" and proceeded to rake Dr. Hotze over the coals for being a political conservative (yeah, like I go to a doctor to discuss politics -- I'm a libertarian btw). I'm tired of doctors who ridicule patients for preferring natural to synthetic. If Dr. Pucillo is accepting new patients, I am SO THERE (good to know he's in-network with Aetna, thanks for the heads-up on that). Sugar Land is a lot closer to my home than ville.

Sorry...had to rant. Yes, I will be updating Dr. Gibbs' entry in the "Good Bad and Ugly" list -- not sure he qualifies as "Ugly" but definitely "bad".

>> > Thanks Jan!!!!> > I went to the site and looked at all the postings for Pucillo and he sure looks like he'd be a good choice for me, especially since he takes Armour himself and treats adrenal/hormone issues. > > Not only that, he accepts our current Aena HMO and our new insurance as of 1/1/09 CIGNA HMO. That alone is a minor miracle. Dr. White is out of network for me but still an option if this doesn't work out. BOTH are closer than Dr. Alavi, who is north of the 10 in Houston. > > Steph S.Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. Sign up today.