Re: it ain't necessarily so... Jan - Eva

[Guest guest]

Eva wrote:

> Hi Jan,

>

> " jan " wrote:

> > At some level I know that needing, wanting, desiring anything that I

> > don't already have right here in my here and now is delusional and

> > insane. But I forget - and " think " that wouldn't it be nice with a

> > man....when I inquire I always come up with not necessarily so.

>

> EVA - I notice that I don't feel comfortable thinking in levels of

truth.

> (Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here).

I think you perhaps are wishing to prove that my experience is similar

to yours. Perhaps you feel I am not being truthful because my

experience is somewhat different from yours. Your questions are so

suspicious and you appear convinced that your story is Truth - mine is

lies.

So let me look.

Do I prefer to be with a man? nope.

If I wanted to be with a man - all I have to do is snap my fingers -

been with one since second grade.

Do I prefer to be with my ex? nope.

I only have moments when I really am seeing the fantasy that I miss

him - when I think of the reality of it - it's a definite no.

>

> Isn't the truth about your preferences that which you prefer in this

> moment?

>

> > It's really hard to get that the truth is that God would never be so

> > cruel as to make happiness contingent upon something outside

> ourselves.

>

> Did God have a choice?

I don't know how to answer this because I don't understand where you

are coming from.

>

> > So yes Eva - I prefer truth over any man.

>

> So help you God, Jan... :-)

I don't understand - I know you think you are seeing something I'm

not. So is this about being right? I'm not getting it?

Blessings - Jan

[Guest guest]

Dear Jan,

> > " jan " wrote:

> > > At some level I know that needing, wanting, desiring anything

that I

> > > don't already have right here in my here and now is delusional

and

> > > insane. But I forget - and " think " that wouldn't it be nice

with a

> > > man....when I inquire I always come up with not necessarily so.

> >

> > EVA - I notice that I don't feel comfortable thinking in levels

of

> truth.

> > (Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here).

>

> I think you perhaps are wishing to prove that my experience is

similar

> to yours. Perhaps you feel I am not being truthful because my

> experience is somewhat different from yours. Your questions are so

> suspicious and you appear convinced that your story is Truth - mine

is

> lies.

Hm. Am I wishing to prove that your experience is simmilar to mine?

I don't think so.

And I don't think you're not being truthful, and I don't think your

story is lies.

But the way I read it, your story sounds inconsistent to me.

That makes me want to try to find out about that, by asking you the

questions that come up when I'm reading your message.

You appear to discern two levels of truth. I don't understand about

that.

To me, it seems there is only what's true in this moment. How could

there be more levels of truth? (Please read this question as an

invitation to explain to me how you experience more levels of truth

(if that is what you're implying). I'm not questioning the

truthfulness of your message, and not trying to prove anything to

you).

In my experience, it's like this:

When I miss someone, even if it's just a fantasy (and probably any

time I miss someone it's about a fantasy), it is my truth, in that

moment, that I miss someone.

Next, I can inquire, and then I may notice the missing comes from

believing something that after inquiry doesn't feel true anymore. So

my truth has changed to another truth in another moment.

That's how I perceive my experience now.

I wonder how things are if you have more levels of truth.

Maybe you could say something about that?

> > > It's really hard to get that the truth is that God would never

be so

> > > cruel as to make happiness contingent upon something outside

> > ourselves.

> >

> > Did God have a choice?

>

> I don't know how to answer this because I don't understand where you

> are coming from.

If you're saying that 'God would never....' it sounds as if God had a

choice.

Do you think that God has a choice? (Again, it's just a question, I'm

curious how you're seeing this, not implying anything with it).

If so, to me that would be a stressful thought, because before you

know it, God could decide otherwise and he *would* be that cruel...

In that case it would definitely be harder to get it that God would

never etc. Because in the back of my mind it would still be there

that maybe one day he will!

I would be at his mercy. God have mercy! I hope he has! That's a

stressful thought.

> >

> > > So yes Eva - I prefer truth over any man.

> >

> > So help you God, Jan... :-)

>

> I don't understand - I know you think you are seeing something I'm

> not. So is this about being right? I'm not getting it?

I'm just trying to make a weak joke here.

From where I'm coming from, I interpreted your God as someone who

could choose to be or not be that cruel as to make your happiness

contingent upon a man.

I read it as if you might need the goodwill of God to make your

happiness contingent upon your truth, or whatever it is inside of you

that would make you happy. So you could need a little help from God

there.

I am curious to hear your response.

Love,

Eva

[Guest guest]

Jan, my eye fell upon the title I gave to this message.

I guess I did indeed wish to 'teach' you something, namely that your

view is not " necessarily so " , without necessarily wishing to prove

myself right.

That's how you come across at me, as someone who has a strong belief

in her truth.

It tickles. Makes me want to challenge it.

Eva

> > > At some level I know that needing, wanting, desiring anything

that I

> > > don't already have right here in my here and now is delusional

and

> > > insane. But I forget - and " think " that wouldn't it be nice

with a

> > > man....when I inquire I always come up with not necessarily so.

> >

> > EVA - I notice that I don't feel comfortable thinking in levels

of

> truth.

> > (Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here).

>

> I think you perhaps are wishing to prove that my experience is

similar

> to yours. Perhaps you feel I am not being truthful because my

> experience is somewhat different from yours. Your questions are so

> suspicious and you appear convinced that your story is Truth - mine

is

> lies.

>

> So let me look.

>

> Do I prefer to be with a man? nope.

>

> If I wanted to be with a man - all I have to do is snap my fingers -

> been with one since second grade.

>

> Do I prefer to be with my ex? nope.

>

> I only have moments when I really am seeing the fantasy that I miss

> him - when I think of the reality of it - it's a definite no.

> >

> > Isn't the truth about your preferences that which you prefer in

this

> > moment?

> >

> > > It's really hard to get that the truth is that God would never

be so

> > > cruel as to make happiness contingent upon something outside

> > ourselves.

> >

> > Did God have a choice?

>

> I don't know how to answer this because I don't understand where you

> are coming from.

> >

> > > So yes Eva - I prefer truth over any man.

> >

> > So help you God, Jan... :-)

>

> I don't understand - I know you think you are seeing something I'm

> not. So is this about being right? I'm not getting it?

>

> Blessings - Jan

[Guest guest]

> seems pretty heady to me.....just an outsider

>

> expressing an view beside do any of us really know God......

>

As far as I'm concerned I was inquiring into thoughts about God, not

claiming to make any truthful statements about Her.

(Jan, don't you agree that God is female .. ?? :-) )

Eva

[Guest guest]

" Eva wrote:

> Dear Jan,

> How could

> there be more levels of truth?

>

> In my experience, it's like this:

> When I miss someone, even if it's just a fantasy (and probably any

> time I miss someone it's about a fantasy), it is my truth, in that

> moment, that I miss someone.

> Next, I can inquire, and then I may notice the missing comes from

> believing something that after inquiry doesn't feel true anymore. So

> my truth has changed to another truth in another moment.

> That's how I perceive my experience now.

> I wonder how things are if you have more levels of truth.

> Maybe you could say something about that?

Oh thank you - I see that we are saying the same thing from two

different vantage points. Every philosophy that I've experienced

speaks to two levels of Reality. The reality we experience via the

filter of an ego and the Reality we experience without. The only way

to Reality is through reality. You are saying the same thing. You

have the fantasy - reality - you investigate the fantasy via inquiry

and discover that it was indeed reality and thus you break through to

Reality which says that the fantasy is the lie.

>

>

> If you're saying that 'God would never....' it sounds as if God had a

> choice.

> Do you think that God has a choice? (Again, it's just a question, I'm

> curious how you're seeing this, not implying anything with it).

God IS. He cannot help us in the ego domain. I have the choice to

choose Reality or reality and make it true for me - but God's Reality

doesn't depend on anything - except me " breaking " through or dropping

the barrier to perceive that I have always been in God's Reality

playing a game. Reality isn't designed would have been better wording...

>

>

> I am curious to hear your response.

I love how when communication continues one discovers that there are

so many different ways to say the same thing.

One of the Wapnick cds that I am listening to addresses silence and

says that all speech is simply the creation of the ego...silence is

Reality.

Thanks for taking the communication this far.

Blessings - Jan