Re: MP Soap Base Ingredients

[Guest guest]

I would certainly be a lot easier if ALL the suppliers would use

CORRECT ingredient names and declarations without the fluff,

hyperbole and dishonesty.

With the second, given that they haven't said what the vegetable oils

are saponified with, I don't trust the declaration. Assuming that

all the other ingredients are correct, however, it would be a true

soap since there are no other detergents.

If they had labelled correctly, the ingredient list would probably

look pretty " chemically " too! There are any number of alkalis

that " saponify " - who knows what they're using!

Jules in Vancouver (who still thinks the Hall of Shame is not only

appropriate but much needed!)

> Hi all,

>

> I've been following the melt and pour soap base thread with alot of

interest and need some

> clarifications if possible..

>

> Currently I am using the base from Wholesale Supplies Plus which

has been discussed. Their

> ingredient list is as follows:

>

> Ingredients:

> Propylene Glycol (Comes from glycerol, a natural moisturizing

material)

> Water

> Sodium Stearate (Natural fatty component to soap, vegetable base)

> Glycerin (Humectant, naturally produced during soapmaking process)

> Sodium Laureth Sulfate (Derived from Coconut Oil, natural cleansing

agent)

> Sorbitol (Found in ripe berries from mountain ash trees, adds

creaminess)

> Sodium Myristate (Foaming agent from vegetable fatty acids, natural

organic acid)

> Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate (Coconut oil base, Mild surfactant)

> Triethanolamine (Emulsifier, made from vegetable fat)

> Vitamin E

> No Artificial Preservatives

>

> White base also has titanium dioxide

>

>

> I have also used the melt and pour base from TKB trading, with

their ingredient statement

> being:

>

> " Best of all, it is a " Pure Soap " product, meaning that it contains

a high percentage of

> vegetable oil soap & is DETERGENT-FREE, ph is 8.5.

>

> Ingredients are: Saponified vegetable oils, vegetable glycerin,

purified water, sorbital (a

> natural humectant derived from fruits and berries), aloe vera

(moisturizer) and propylene

> glycol (emulsifier). "

>

> Comparing the 2 products it is easily visible that the first does

contain more chemicals than

> the second. But would the second base be considered " soap "

according to FDA regulations or a

> cosmetic? Is a true soap that which contains ONLY saponified oils

(vegetable or animal), lye,

> and water? For the sake of comparison I am not including the

addition of things like fragrance

> or essential oils.. If you were to add things like fresh fruits or

goatsmilk to cold process

> soaps does that change the soap classification in any way?

>

> I dont mean to be dense, I just dont totally understand the FDA

wording and would like to be

> sure of what statements I am making on my products... I find it

very interesting and also very

> frustrating every supplier I have found for melt and pour base

promotes the products their

> products in the same way. And then you have the select few which

refuse to release their

> ingredients list to you as it is proprietory and say that they are

not required by law to do so

> and that they are selling " soap " which does not require

labeling... The word " natural " seems

> to be misused in both of the above product descriptions and as such

I am assuming that it is

> totally incorrect for me to state that my melt and pour is in any

way " natural " ?

>

> Thanks for all of your help in clearing up my confusion, it is

greatly appreciated!!

>

> Take care,

> Deb H.

[Guest guest]

> " Best of all, it is a " Pure Soap " product, meaning that it contains a high

percentage of

>vegetable oil soap & is DETERGENT-FREE, ph is 8.5.

>

>Ingredients are: Saponified vegetable oils, vegetable glycerin, purified water,

sorbital (a

>natural humectant derived from fruits and berries), aloe vera (moisturizer) and

propylene

>glycol (emulsifier). "

This is not an inredient list that is suitable for personal care

products. It's also not very informative. They don't mention the

oils. Too bad.

>Comparing the 2 products it is easily visible that the first does contain more

chemicals than

>the second.ÿ But would the second base be considered " soap " according to FDA

regulations or a

>cosmetic?ÿ Is a true soap that which contains ONLY saponified oils (vegetable

or animal), lye,

>and water?ÿ For the sake of comparison I am not including the addition of

things like fragrance

>or essential oils..ÿ If you were to add things like fresh fruits or goatsmilk

to cold process

>soaps does that change the soap classification in any way?

Here's the FDA's definition of soap:

21 CFR Sec. 701.20

Detergent substances, other than soap, intended for use in cleansing

the body.

(a) In its definition of the term cosmetic, the Federal Food, Drug,

and Cosmetic Act specifically excludes soap. The term soap is nowhere

defined in the act. In administering the act, the Food and Drug

Administration interprets the term ``soap'' to apply only to articles

that meet the following conditions:

(1) The bulk of the nonvolatile matter in the product consists of an

alkali salt of fatty acids and the detergent properties of the article

are due to the alkali-fatty acid compounds; and

(2) The product is labeled, sold, and represented only as soap.

( Products intended for cleansing the human body and which are not

``soap'' as set out in paragraph (a) of this section are ``cosmetics,''

and accordingly they are subject to the requirements of the act and the

regulations thereunder. For example, such a product in bar form is

subject to the requirement, among others, that it

shall bear a label containing an accurate statement of the weight of

the bar in avoirdupois pounds and ounces, this statement to be

prominently and conspicuously displayed so as to be likely to be

read under the customary conditions of purchase and use.

Ask the vendor if their soap base complies with the FDA's soap

definition. Or better yet, ask him what portion of the nonvolatile

matter is saponified oils?

If he tells you that the non-volatile portion of the soap base is

composed of 51% saponified oils, you would meet the soap definition for

this product. But you wouldn't have much room to add those fancy

extras.

If you add more solids, you be reducing the relative percentage of

saponified oils.

If the non-volatile portion of the soap base is composed of 61%

saponified oils, then you have more room to play.

>I dont mean to be dense, I just dont totally understand the FDA wording and

would like to be

>sure of what statements I am making on my products...ÿ I find it very

interesting and also very

>frustrating every supplier I have found for melt and pour base promotes the

products their

>products in the same way. And then you have the select few which refuse to

release their

>ingredients list to you as it is proprietory and say that they are not required

by law to do so

>and that they are selling " soap " which does not require labeling...

If, in fact, their soap base meets the FDA's definition, they are

exempt. These vendors must be pretty independent to have an attitude

like that.

> The word " natural " seems

>to be misused in both of the above product descriptions and as such I am

assuming that it is

>totally incorrect for me to state that my melt and pour is in any way

" natural " ?

The two M & P soaps described are not 100% natural or naturally derived.

Maurice

------------------------

Maurice O. Hevey

Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com

[Guest guest]

Deb,

Ask them for the ingredient list in INCI names as per FDA

requirement and see what answer you get. I am always very

suspicious of vendors who will not provide documentation

with a smile and some amount of speed.

This vendor is the one who states " Logwood is an FDA

approved colorant " .

They stop short of saying for soap so they are not exactly

lying, but they do not mention that it is only approved for

removable surgical sutures on the FDA site. To me that is

close enough to a lie to prevent my buying from them again.

Esp. since the Logwood is noted as poisonous on many sites

that give info on plants.

Dee <(((><

<<<I have also used the melt and pour base from TKB trading, with

their ingredient

statement

being:

" Best of all, it is a " Pure Soap " product, meaning that it contains a

high

percentage of

vegetable oil soap & is DETERGENT-FREE, ph is 8.5.

Ingredients are: Saponified vegetable oils, vegetable glycerin,

purified water,

sorbital (a

natural humectant derived from fruits and berries), aloe vera

(moisturizer) and

propylene

glycol (emulsifier). "

>

> Take care,

> Deb H.>>>>>