Re: I decide

[Guest guest]

> Is it true that I decide? It seems like it. Many things in my

> environment, when unquestioned, seem to support or validate the

> thought that I can make a decision.

>

> What is the reality of it? The reality is that I don't make a lot of

> the decisions that I think I do. The reality is that when a

> coincidence occurs (i.e., when reality conforms with my expectations)

> it makes me think that I `made a decision' and acted on it and it

> came to fruition. The reality is that many decisions are made for

> me, like when a friend cancels lunch plans at the last minute.

> That " decision " was out of my hands. If I `decide' to be married and

> have a baby by the time I'm 35, is that really a decision, or is it a

> goal?

Wow! That's interesting, Marsha. I can " decide " to go get myself a

glass of iced tea right now, but until I'm safely back in my chair

with the glass of tea beside me, it's just a goal, as you point out.

Even " deciding " to get up from my chair -- when I attempt to stand up,

I might not be successful. I might fall down. There's no guarantee

that a " decision " will produce the outcome I've decided on.

> Part of the issue is that things I think are decisions really aren't

> decisions at all. If I " decide " that I deserve a promotion because

> someone else got one, is that a conscious decision at all, or is it

> competition, jealousy or a goal?

It sounds to me like attaching to a thought. " I deserve a promotion. "

It could be stressful or not.

- " I deserve a promotion and I didn't get one. Those jerks don't

appreciate me. "

or

- " I got a promotion and I deserved it. All's right with the world. "

> ...

> Where's the proof I decide? Proof were the things that have come to

> pass that I decided to do. Things like going to college (I " decided "

> to go to school), joining the Air Force (I " decided " to go into the

> military), I got married and divorced (I said " I do " and " I don't " ).

> But looking back on many of the decisions I've made, I can't pinpoint

> the exact moment I " made a decision. " With going to school it took

> several months of filling our applications, taking tests, waiting for

> scores, processing paperwork. Each day I vacillated back and

> forth, " Do I want to spend four more years in school? Do I want to

> backpack across Europe instead? Do I want to go to this school or

> that school? Should I just work for awhile…? " I don't remember the

> exact " moment " that I " decided " to go to school…in fact

> most " decisions " have been a long drawn out process of waiting,

> thinking and wondering what to do. And my thinking and wondering

> didn't help me make a better decision, really. It just gave me

> something to do in the meantime.

Sometimes I've had the long, drawn-out period of wondering what to do,

and then one day I'll " decide " : I'm not going. I live with the belief

that I'm not going for three days and then discovered that I've

" changed my mind. " Now I *am* going! And I'll live with that belief

until *it* changes.

> ...

> The only catch is, we can't see the wall, we can't tell when we're

> hitting the wall in real life. I guess that's why all this

> enlightenment and consciousness stuff is so important.

What if you had gone to the university, dropped all your classes after

the first week, and taken off for Europe?

It's seeming to me right now that I'm constantly passing through the

wall you describe. I'm never locked in. Dropping what I've committed

to is always an option. That's one way I know that what I have is what

I want. If I really wanted to not be married, I'd be leaving in this

moment. If I really didn't want the job I have, I wouldn't go there

tomorrow morning.

> How do you treat yourself when you believe and feel the thought I

> decide? I've felt an overwhelming responsibility for everything in

> my life. I've felt disappointment, shame and guilt about past

> decisions. I've felt anxious and fearful of making a bad decision in

> the future. I'm afraid I'll make a mistake, I think that I can fail,

> I feel like I could have done better, I'm worried that things can " go

> wrong. " I'm inordinately concerned that the decisions I make today

> will affect me years later. I've done worksheets on each of the

> above statements and I just realized today that " I decide " was the

> underlying belief of all of those statements – hence this worksheet.

Great find! I'm learning a lot from your Work, Marsha. Thank you for

sharing it.

> ...

> However, it seems that when I ask the question, " How do I feel about

> an issue in this moment? " then I'm feeling like I'm in my business.

Yes. " What do I think about ...? " or " How do I feel about ...? " are

about my thinking and feelings -- my business. Those questions aren't

even about the issue I'm thinking or feeling about. I might have

similar thoughts about different issues, or very different thoughts

about issues that seem similar. The issue isn't the issue. My thinking

is the issue, for me.

> ...

> I hold this belief because I'm afraid that if I didn't feel like I

> had to make all these " serious " and " important " decisions that I

> would just give up and turn into a softie, a free-loader, or a

> wimp.

So it's bad to be a softie, or a free-loader, or a wimp? Is that true?

What's wrong with being one of those?

> ...

> I guess I don't know who I'd be without this thought. I've never

> tried it before. I guess I'll try thinking that I don't have any

> decisions to make this week and see how it goes…

That sounds like an exciting experiment! I hope you'll share what

happens with us.

> ...

> Turn the thought around: I decide

>

> I don't decide – true. I'm decided. Just like I'm breathed and

> lived and loved.

>

> I am willing to think that I decide because each time my decisions

> conflict with reality it reminds me that I don't decide after all –

> until I do. It's a beginning…

Great Work, Marsha! Thank you!

Tom

[Guest guest]

Recent research shows that the brain registers a decision moments

before the 'I' knows it. The 'I' then pretends to have made the

decision! And makes up bogus reasons as to why. Interesting, isn't

it? Tim

[Guest guest]

> Recent research shows that the brain registers a decision moments

> before the 'I' knows it. The 'I' then pretends to have made the

> decision! And makes up bogus reasons as to why. Interesting, isn't

> it? Tim

I read about this at http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/

(Chapter 5, section 9). The research you mention, Tim, was reported in

in 1983 (over 20 years ago), according to this website. The same

researcher ( Libet) reported experiments in 1973 that

demonstrated that conscious awareness of a sensory stimulus lags the

stimulus itself by about half a second. The lag between the brain

registering a decision and the conscious mind registering it was about

a third of a second, if I remember correctly.

The upshot is, as far as I can tell, that *all* of my awareness,

whether it's about something " I " did or something that happened " to

me " is about the past. All I can do is look in my mind's rear view

mirror and see where I've been.

Reflexive tricks that don't depend on consciousness keep me alive

(pressing the brakes in my car in time, pulling away from the hot

stove before I'm burned, etc.). It would seem that *I'm* just along

for the ride, without much control over what happens or where I go.

[Guest guest]

" It would seem that *I'm* just along for the ride, without much

control over what happens or where I go " . Tom

Yet it is possible to have plans and execute them, to choose to do

mind altering exercises - such as the work. I hear Gilbert and

Sullivan's chorus " A paradox " , Tim

[Guest guest]

" Dear Tim:

You said: " Yet it is possible to have plans and execute them, to

choose to do mind altering exercises - such as the work. "

So, can you really know that that is true? Did you choose to do The

Work or did you do The Work and then tell yourself how you chose to

do it?

You decide to have a plan, is that true? A plan appears and we take

credit for it " .

Love, Steve D.

Putting like that, yes, you're right, thanks for clarifying that for

me Steve D,

love

Tim

[Guest guest]

Hello Steve:

So, we don't decide on things? None of us make any decisions? This

goes contrary to my daily experience. Your comment sounds absurd to

me. Plans just appear? Yes, for me plans appear and then I choose

the appropriate one for me at the time. If only one plan appeared

all day and every day then life would be indeed simple. But plans

(plural) appear to me and I choose between them. I don't agree with

you.

Whitman

> > " It would seem that *I'm* just along for the ride, without much

> > control over what happens or where I go " . Tom

> >

> > Yet it is possible to have plans and execute them, to choose to

do

> > mind altering exercises - such as the work. I hear Gilbert and

> > Sullivan's chorus " A paradox " , Tim

[Guest guest]

dear Whitman,

You said: " I don't agree with you. "

That is fine. It is not necessary that anyone agrees with me. We

perceive things differently and that is just fine.

Blessings, Steve D.

> > > " It would seem that *I'm* just along for the ride, without much

> > > control over what happens or where I go " . Tom

> > >

> > > Yet it is possible to have plans and execute them, to choose to

> do

> > > mind altering exercises - such as the work. I hear Gilbert and

> > > Sullivan's chorus " A paradox " , Tim

[Guest guest]

Tim,

What I have fun doing is going to a social function or business meeting in a

surrendered state of mind, then observing what situations and encounters

come my way. It's a mindset of non judgement-- it's devoid of any intentions

or hidden agendas and I'm focused on the present moment only. When something

happens that triggers my ego and pulls me out of the surrendered state, I

investigate my response and the egoic belief behind it. It's a fun and

revealing way to develop self-awareness.

Cheers,

Eddie

>

>Reply-To: Loving-what-is

>To: Loving-what-is

>Subject: Re: I decide

>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 22:23:07 -0000

>

> " I believe there are two ways of being in the world, (1)

>trying to control and understand everything and (2) surrendering to

>what Reality brings us and then observing the resulting miracles with

>total joy in our hearts " .

>Eddie

>

>I notice my ego pretends to surrender, then gets frustrated when it

>doesn't work! I'm reading R Hawkins 'I' (Reality and

>Subjectivity), very clear. This guy seems to be living life the way I

>always believed, from aged 4 or 5, that it 'should' be. Radical.

>Cheers, Tim

>

>

>

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