Re: another labeling question

[Guest guest]

for what it's worth, I'm also partial to the 7th edition myself...I

prefer " Comfrey (Symphytum Officinale) Extract " because I do think

it's important to give the latin/botanical name (look how many people

think that bergamot and monarda are the same thing because of the

common name - or the calendula versus tagetes issue!) and because I

prefer the " flow " of it. There's a greater degree of " recognition

factor " with the 7th than there is with the 8th.

Of course, the 8th is great if you want to hide the fact that you're

using plain old dillweed (anethum graveolens) or sage (salvia

officinalis). *grin*

Jules/Vancouver BC

>

> Good question! I've mixed names from from different editions. For

> botanicals, I prefer the 7th edition names.

>

> For example, in the 7th edition, Comfrey Extract is Comfrey

(Symphytum

> Officinale) Extract or simply Comfrey Extract. In the 8th and 9th

> edition, the name changes to Symphytum Officinale Extract.

>

> Maurice

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Maurice O. Hevey

> Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

> http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com

> -------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

>But can I list it as coconut oil?ÿ In this instance, I'm talking

about

>a soap label.

Yes.

Maurice, I am confused now. lol. It has been my understanding

from this and the business list that using common names was not

according to labeling regs and soap needed to be listed with the

proper INCI name specific to soap.

ie: Palm Kernal Oil ---> sodium palm kernelate

I would think that Edition 8 (as the updated version of standards)

would supercede Editions 6 & 7 making them obsolete. Otherwise

what is the purpose for newer editions?

Dee ¯`·.. ><((((º>``·.¸:.¸:.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸:.¸.·´¯`·...¸><

((((º>·´¯`·:

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc

http://www.hpsoapbook.com

[Guest guest]

>Maurice, I am confused now.ÿ lol.ÿ It has been my understanding

>from this and the business list that using common names was not

>according to labeling regs and soap needed to be listed with the

>proper INCI name specific to soap.

>ie:ÿ Palm Kernal Oil ---> sodium palm kernelate

Jill's initial question said nothing about soap.

The 7th edition INCI name for Palm Kernel Oil is Palm Kernel Oil or

Palm (Elaeis Guineensis) Kernel Oil.

The 8th & 9th edition INCI name for Palm Kernel Oil is Elaeis

Guineensis (Palm) Kernel Oil or Elaeis Guineensis Kernel Oil

And Sodium Palm Kernelate is defined as the sodium salt of the acids

derived from palm kernel oil.

>I would think that Edition 8 (as the updated version of standards)

>would supercede Editions 6 & 7 making them obsolete. Otherwise

>what is the purpose for newer editions?

Sometime the FDA works slow.

Maurice

--------------------------------------------------------

Maurice O. Hevey

Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com

-------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

<< The 7th edition INCI name for Palm Kernel Oil is Palm Kernel Oil or

Palm (Elaeis Guineensis) Kernel Oil.

The 8th & 9th edition INCI name for Palm Kernel Oil is Elaeis

Guineensis (Palm) Kernel Oil or Elaeis Guineensis Kernel Oil ><>

So they have merely rearranged the wording. I see.

<< And Sodium Palm Kernelate is defined as the sodium salt of the acids

derived from palm kernel oil. >>

Yes, I know. What are you saying here in regards to " regular " names and

labeling when it comes to soap then? Are you saying that it is now acceptable

to list a label with : " saponified oils of palm kernel, olive, coconut...etc "

and

we need not worry about the sodium palm kernelate INCI name ?

Dee ¯`·.. ><((((º>``·.¸:.¸:.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸:.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>·´¯`·:

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc

http://www.hpsoapbook.com

[Guest guest]

><< And Sodium Palm Kernelate is defined as the sodium salt of the acids

>derived from palm kernel oil. >>

>ÿ

>Yes, I know.ÿ What are you saying here in regards to " regular " names and

>labeling when it comes to soap then?ÿ Areÿ you saying that it is now acceptable

>to list a label with :ÿ " saponified oils of palm kernel, olive, coconut...etc

" ÿ and

>we need not worry about the sodium palm kernelateÿ INCI name ?

What I am saying is if you add " the sodium salt of the acids derived

from palm kernel oil " to your formula, you have to use the INCI name

" Sodium Palm Kernelate " .

Maurice

-------------------------------------------------------

Maurice O. Hevey

Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com

-------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

>We make soap.ÿ We do not add sodium salts like the commercial

>manufacturers do.ÿ In relation to this gal asking if it is ok to use the

>regular names of the oil in soap how would you list these ingredients

>(which are in descending order)?

>ÿ

>water, olive oil, coconut oil, palm kernel oil, almond oil,

>sodium hydroxide, castor oil

Looks good to me!

maurice

-------------------------------------------------------

Maurice O. Hevey

Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com

-------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

What I am saying is if you add " the sodium salt of the acids derived

from palm kernel oil " to your formula, you have to use the INCI name

" Sodium Palm Kernelate " .

We make soap. We do not add sodium salts like the commercial

manufacturers do. In relation to this gal asking if it is ok to use the

regular names of the oil in soap how would you list these ingredients

(which are in descending order)?

water, olive oil, coconut oil, palm kernel oil, almond oil,

sodium hydroxide, castor oil

Sorry if I was a bit confusing before. I am only trying to get accurate

info so I can pass it along in the future. = )

Dee ¯`·.. ><((((º>``·.¸:.¸:.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸:.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>·´¯`·:

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc

http://www.hpsoapbook.com

[Guest guest]

Hello:

Since we are on the topic of labeling, is it true that if you claim your

soap moisturizes then the INCI names must be used in the labeling because it

is overlapping with the regulations of cosmetics?

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[Guest guest]

> Hello:

>

> Since we are on the topic of labeling, is it true that if you

claim your

> soap moisturizes then the INCI names must be used in the labeling

because it

> is overlapping with the regulations of cosmetics?

When you make a cosmetic claim for a " true " soap, then the " true "

soap becomes a cosmetic.

To be a soap, the following conditions should be met:

(1) The bulk of the nonvolatile matter in the product consists of an

alkali salt of fatty acids and the detergent properties of the

article are due to the alkali-fatty acid compounds; and

(2) The product is labeled, sold, and represented only as soap.

Since it is a cosmetic, then the FDA labeling regulations go into

effect.

Here are two links that you should read:

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/cos-215.html

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/cos-218.html

Maurice

[Guest guest]

> I think I'm missing something. Please elaborate.

In answer to Dee on the 20th you posted the following.

>water, olive oil, coconut oil, palm kernel oil, almond oil,

>sodium hydroxide, castor oil

Looks good to me!

Since when have all the common names for the above oils been acceptable as

INCI names?

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/