Guest guest Posted November 16, 2001 Report Share Posted November 16, 2001 >I am still " researching " various surfactants and would like a reliable >comparison of the mildness/irritation potential of some of the more popular >ones. I have the Draize Skin Irritation Scores table and wonder if this >information presentated is unbiased research (it comes from the McIntyre >materials). The test is a standard test. All the parameters and scoring methods are well defined. > If this table does provide reliable information, I am confused. >The highest score (most irritating) is Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate----and >I thought this product was relatively mild? Thanks for your help. Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate is a very effective cleanser and it is harsh relative to most other detergents used in personal care. BTW, McIntyre is a very reputable company and I trust their data. Maurice ------------------------ Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 Okay, now I know what a surfactant is (I think). It's a detergent based cleanser as opposed to soap, which is a natural product resulting from the saponification of fats, water, and lye. Is that right?? Since the liquid soap in the scrub formula is used not to cleanse, but to emulsify the oils with the salts...would a surfactant achieve the same result? - now I have a question for you. Why do you prefer a surfactant over soap? Just curious. Would using a surfactant prevent the breaking down of the salts (as using the liquid soap might)? If one were going to sub a surfactant for the liquid soap, what would one use? The only surfactants I know about are laundry detergents, dishwashing liquid, etc. In other words, they've already been made into something. (Boy that sounds ignorant). Please explain - I'd like to learn something. Dorothy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 In a message dated 12/7/01 10:54:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, djlorenc@... writes: > I don't know what I did <g>. But it certainly is working fine now! > > Is the cocobetaine blend a powder? If you need to mix it with water and > heat it to use it, does that then mean that when used in a product such > as a scrub to emulsify you would also need a preservative system? > > Hi Dorothy, Glad you could get to the website. The cocobetaine blend is a viscous liquid. You would want to dilute the blend with water and probably add other things for conditioning, moisture-retention, etc. if you were making a shampoo or body wash. My formulas do specify heating the surfactant and water to make a shampoo, etc., but you don't have to if you use a higher percentage of the surfactant (35-40%)---at that percentage you don't really need to thicken the shampoo either--so it is very easy to put together. And yes, you would add a preservative to a shampoo or body wash. You will see my post on the salt scrub that I just made (where I am looking to you for guidance on the consistency!)....I am just now experimenting with these blends in the scrub. I am thinking that it would be best to use the concentrated surfactant blend (as it is) to add to the salt scrub---I just haven't worked out the percentages yet. The cocobetaine/lactylate blend is ultra-mild, but the polyglucoside/lactylate blend can actually be considered " all-natural " for those folks that find it important. I doubt it would matter much for a salt scrub which one you would use. As to a preservative in the scrub...many people believe that since water is typically introduced by simply using the scrub, it would be best to preserve it. Thanks for all your information about these salt scrubs, I have had fun this afternoon! Angie The Herbarie at Stoney Hill Farm www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 Dorothy, I have been experimenting with a shampoo concentrate (surfactant blend of SLES, Cocamide MEA & Cocamidopropyl Betaine) blended with a carrier oil. It will stay emulsified, but does tend to pool at the top of the salt. I have added M & P to try and combat this, but it appears to harden and " crust " over time. I think the key to preventing the pooling, is to use a higher percentage of salt in the formula - almost to the point of it feeling dry when first blended.... I don't use any hard oils/butters, but the mixture will " whip " . I find the pooling is worse when this happens, however. I am going to try and obtain a sample of canola gel, and see if this will create an easier to homogenize mixture. ~Tamara TwirlyGirly wrote: > - now I have a question for you. Why do you prefer a surfactant > over soap? Just curious. Would using a surfactant prevent the breaking > down of the salts (as using the liquid soap might)? > > If one were going to sub a surfactant for the liquid soap, what would > one use? The only surfactants I know about are laundry detergents, > dishwashing liquid, etc. In other words, they've already been made into > something. (Boy that sounds ignorant). Please explain - I'd like to > learn something. > > Dorothy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 Tamara - Okay, I'm beginning to understand. But, what are the advantages of using a surfactant over liquid soap? Dorothy Tamara Thomson wrote: > > Dorothy, > I have been experimenting with a shampoo concentrate (surfactant blend of > SLES, Cocamide MEA & Cocamidopropyl Betaine) blended with a carrier oil. It > will stay emulsified, but does tend to pool at the top of the salt. > I don't use any hard oils/butters, but the mixture will " whip " . I find the > pooling is worse when this happens, however. > ~Tamara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 I have absolutely no idea I don't make liquid soap, thus I'm using surfactants. Sorry I can't help answer your question... ~Tamara TwirlyGirly wrote: > Tamara - > > Okay, I'm beginning to understand. But, what are the advantages of using > a surfactant over liquid soap? > > Dorothy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2001 Report Share Posted December 7, 2001 I *do* know how bar soap is made, but > haven't really investigated the process of making liquid soap. I don't make natural liquid soap either. > I had no idea that heated alcohol was used in making liquid soap. Are > you saying that the process by which liquid soap is made is dangerous, > and therefore using a surfactant is safer in a product which is made in > the home, I was under the impression that liquid soap was made with heated alcohol. Jules seems to think that it is not, and is added to the hot soap off the stove to give you a clear soap. Since I have never made it or read much about it and Jules has, her information is probably correct. In my opinion alcohol is still dangerous to handle in any form and caution should be used. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. pat@... http://www.houseofscents.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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