Re: avoiding truth, alexander

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Am 24.04.2004 um 22:54 schrieb jmknapp74@...:

> a few days ago alexander suggested that i do not want to see the

> answers to my questions.  i think this is true, because very rarely

> has the work, for me, been felt very deeply.  most of the time it just

> feels like concepts haggling with concepts.  i seem to have some

> trouble going deep with inquiry, and that is discouraging to me.  i

> feel a sense of shame sometimes coming here, seemingly always a

> very-beginner. i truly admire and even envy those of you on this list

> who seem to take to this so easily and naturally.  but enough

> complaining already!  time to give it another try.

Yes, and can you absolutely know others on this lost take to this

easily and naturally?

It's always a beginning. I have only known very-beginner.

> first, to answer alexander's question to me:  can i be sure it is

> resistance that i am feeling?

>

> no.  i am feeling something.  " resistance " is what i've labeled it,

> but it is simply a feeling none the less.

>

> how do i react believing im so full of this " resistance " ?

> i do alot of avoiding.  i have a sense of avoiding compounded by

> avoiding.  very tense.  hyper-carful.  tight.  very self-protective. 

> i imagine that i come off very cold and unavailiable to those i know. 

> i get a strong sense of something being " wrong " , yet i cant find what

> it is.  i feel restless, almost completely unable to REALLY relax at

> all.  it's like: don't want to sit down.  don't want to stand up. 

> don't want to read.  don't want to watch tv.  don't want to be alone. 

> don't want to hang out with anyone.  discontent all around.  thats an

> overview of how i react to this belief in " resistance " . 

>

> what's the payoff?  i become completely invulnerable to anyone.  can't

> be touched.  it's very selfish and self-absorbed. 

You become invulnerable to anyone. Is that really true? Turn it around.

> who would i be without the thought that im feeling resistance?

> id just feel this feeling completely.  let it have it's life.  maybe i

> could include more of life to be allowed into my...what?  my comfort

> zone?  maybe i would simply open up more.  i know i would be more at

> ease and less tightened up inside.  that would be really nice. 

> allowing.  this is what i keep coming back to.  allowing, allowing,

> allowing.  falling into it and trusting. 

Enjoying the trip.

> turnarounds...

>

> " resistance " is just a feeling like any other.  well, true.

> really feeling " resistance "   can feel good.  i know this is true as

> well.

> the thought that im " resisting " is what is causing me pain.  i can see

> this as well. 

>

>

> i need to sit with this for a bit.  thank you.

>

> love,

> jeremy

Thank you!

Love,

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/24/2004 7:14:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, olli_26@...

writes:

> Yes, and can you absolutely know others on this list take

> to this

> easily and naturally?

>

> It's always a beginning. I have only known very-beginner.

no, i cant absolutely know that...but i do suspect that this work makes a big

difference (for the better) in people's outlook of thier lives. this is not a

stressful thought. it gives me hope. i feel frustration because i seem to have

a concrete lining surrounding my stories that is quite impeneterable. i don't

seem to be able to undo this. many times when trying to see the TRUTH, i feel

like im simply trying to fool myself. could you explain to me how

" very-beginner " feels to you? literally, how do you live your life as a

very-beginner?

i apologize to you (and all of you) for this kind of needy-grasping " tone " to my

rants on here. i really do want to know my responsibility for my own suffering

(and of course how to change my own suffering). i simply have not yet been able

to clearly see it. and i must ask questions of " you out there " , as much as i

must ask myself The Questions. thank you.

love,

jeremy

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Am 25.04.2004 um 01:53 schrieb jmknapp74@...:

> In a message dated 4/24/2004 7:14:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> olli_26@... writes:

>

> > Yes, and can you absolutely know others on this list take

> > to this

> > easily and naturally?

> >

> > It's always a beginning. I have only known very-beginner.

>

>

> no, i cant absolutely know that...

what do you get for holding this belief?

How do you react with this relief?

Who would you be without the belief?

Turn it around.

> but i do suspect that this work makes a big difference (for the

> better) in people's outlook of thier lives.  this is not a stressful

> thought.

> it gives me hope.

Is that really true?

> i feel frustrated

> because i seem to have a concrete lining surrounding my stories that

> is quite impeneterable.  i don't seem to be able to undo this.

Is this a stressful thought? How did you investigate it?

> many times when trying to see the TRUTH, i feel like im simply trying

> to fool myself.

I understand.

> could you explain to me how " very-beginner " feels to you?  literally,

> how do you live your life as a very-beginner?

I see no difference in how I live my life. I get up, have breakfast -

or not - go to work, go back home, eat, go to sleep.

What differs for me, is that when I have a stressful thought, I tend to

investigate. Whether I get angry, hurt or irritated by other people, I

investigate. I take care of myself by trying to stay in my integrity.

So, I get hurt, look if I got out of my integrity, and step back in.

This does not keep me from reacting in whatever way I do. And each time

I found a stressful thought, I feel like a very beginner.

> i apologize to you (and all of you) for this kind of needy-grasping

> " tone " to my rants on here.

Don't. Turn it around, instead.

> i really do want to know my responsibility for my own suffering (and

> of course how to change my own suffering).

Can you make yourself change your suffering? If not, it's not your

buisness. And is it really true it is suffering?

> i simply have not yet been able to clearly see it.

Is that really true? Turn it around.

> and i must ask questions of " you out there " , as much as i must ask

> myself The Questions.

You must ask us at all. Can you absolutely know that? What is it we

could give you? And why wait for us to give it to you?

You can have everything right from where you are.

> thank you.

>

> love,

> jeremy

Take care,

[Guest guest]

Hi

I am a bit late with this but have been offline recently and am still

catching up. I have also been doing a lot of work around 'Transference'

which Jan introduced me to last year.

My response to you is about being 'very-beginner' of being always in a

beginning state of mind!

In a book by Rohr called 'Everything Belongs' he talks of

'beginner's mind'. He compares Jesus to the Zen master who calls the 'monks'

to a 'beginner's mind' because we must never presume that we see. We must

always be ready to see anew. RR gives the Jesus parallel when Jesus takes a

little child and basically advises that we come to everything with the mind

and heart of a child - in order to grasp truth. This, says RR is the same

reality as the beginner's mind.

He says a lot more about beginner's mind but for the purpose of LWI, I

transliterate: Beginner.s mind is a posture of eagerness, of hunger (for

the truth). The beginner's mind knows it needs something. (BUT) ...our

culture (geared towards instant gratification), we take away our pain too

easily. i.o.w. we must remain empty and not try and fill the void of our

loneliness and longing in false ways, in quick fixes. Basically 'stay with

the pain and it will teach you your Truth'.

Well I think it is a good story to look into!

Loving you

Rosemary

Re: avoiding truth, alexander

> In a message dated 4/24/2004 7:14:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

olli_26@... writes:

>

> > Yes, and can you absolutely know others on this list take

> > to this

> > easily and naturally?

> >

> > It's always a beginning. I have only known very-beginner.

>

>

> no, i cant absolutely know that...but i do suspect that this work makes a

big difference (for the better) in people's outlook of thier lives. this is

not a stressful thought. it gives me hope. i feel frustration because i

seem to have a concrete lining surrounding my stories that is quite

impeneterable. i don't seem to be able to undo this. many times when

trying to see the TRUTH, i feel like im simply trying to fool myself. could

you explain to me how " very-beginner " feels to you? literally, how do you

live your life as a very-beginner?

>

> i apologize to you (and all of you) for this kind of needy-grasping " tone "

to my rants on here. i really do want to know my responsibility for my own

suffering (and of course how to change my own suffering). i simply have not

yet been able to clearly see it. and i must ask questions of " you out

there " , as much as i must ask myself The Questions. thank you.

>

> love,

> jeremy

>

>

>

>

>