to Jan

[Guest guest]

Dear Jan,

You wrote:

>>You appear to have an underlying belief

that getting cosmetic surgery is divinely inspired not egoically

motivated. Can you be sure?<<

I don't have that belief other than to say, underneath it all, what ISN'T

divinely inspired? I have no idea what 's motivation was. I only know

what I heard: that she thought she was beautiful before having a face lift, and

she had a face lift because the idea and opportunity presented themselves and

she couldn't see why not.

At that Cleanse where she discussed having the procedure, she said she was

hanging out in front of the mirror before she had it done, she played at pulling

the skin aside, and she liked what she saw. She did not say she didn't like what

she saw the other way.

I can relate only because I like what I see in my mind's eye when I see me

without the 50 additional pounds I carry...and truly I do not see a difference

between what she describes as her experience, and mine. I'm not exactly

unhealthy so why not " love what is " with 50 extra pounds? That's the point, you

see -- I do now. Same. And I hear you -- your integrity is your integrity. I

totally respect that.

Love, Carol

[Guest guest]

>

> >>You appear to have an underlying belief

> that getting cosmetic surgery is divinely inspired not egoically

> motivated. Can you be sure?<<

>

> I don't have that belief other than to say, underneath it all, what

ISN'T divinely inspired? I have no idea what 's motivation was.

I only know what I heard: that she thought she was beautiful before

having a face lift, and she had a face lift because the idea and

opportunity presented themselves and she couldn't see why not.

I absolutely LOVE your tenacity, my tenacity to see the motivation for

a face lift through our respective lens. got a face lift

because she preferred to look differently than she did. Her story!

Can I explore another story with you?

What if we have a pearl of light inside each one of us. This pearl of

light is wrapped in filters. Now ALL of it is divine, but divinity

likes to play and constantly tempts us with what will you choose with

that free will of yours - the light or the filter? With the light you

get unending, unparalled bliss - choose filter behavior you get a

temporary high/payoff. Most face lifts last maybe 5 years...then many

times the skin is even saggier than before...

Does that mean should be discarded and that nothing she says is

worth a plug nickel? Not at all. I listen more closely now - I

inquire a little more deeply now into what she is saying so I can have

the eureka of my own truth...

I love that I keep explaining this. Each time I do I love the feeling

I get of the Truth that is here for me. So thanks for your tenacity -

you so help me to look even deeper.

>

> At that Cleanse where she discussed having the procedure, she said

she was hanging out in front of the mirror before she had it done, she

played at pulling the skin aside, and she liked what she saw. She did

not say she didn't like what she saw the other way.

Well help me out here. Face pulled, face not pulled. I like them

both equally - would I still get a face lift? Well, seems for me the

answer would be no.

>

> I can relate only because I like what I see in my mind's eye when I

see me without the 50 additional pounds I carry...and truly I do not

see a difference between what she describes as her experience, and

mine. I'm not exactly unhealthy so why not " love what is " with 50

extra pounds? That's the point, you see -- I do now. Same. And I

hear you -- your integrity is your integrity. I totally respect that.

So why don't you go get gastric by-pass surgery???? Just a rhetorical

kidding question...trying to equalize the playing field...

Blessings - Jan

[Guest guest]

Hey Jan,

If I were " morbidly obese " (I'm not)...and my doctor suggested

getting gastric by-pass surgery (she hasn't)...and I were aware of

the possible risks (I am)...and I were willing to deal with those

(I'm not)...well, who knows?

To me, " enlightenment " if there is such a thing, is doing what I do

with awareness. It seems to me that this is what does, and I

really can't know that. She says so, and I can't know. Perhaps her

husband wanted her face lifted and she said okay. Perhaps in getting

a face lift she was being " done " in the same way that we all are

being breathed. Who can say?

You keep insisting that wanted to look different and that this

can be the only reason for the action/decision. How do you know this

to be true for her, even if it would be the only possible reason for

you? How can any of us possibly know anything about why another does

what s/he does? This is the only point that I am tenacious about,

from where I sit. We simply cannot know another's motivation, no

matter what the appearance is, no matter what they say. I can only be

aware of what I perceive to be true, based on a lot of

assumptions...what I hear, how I hear it, what I observe, how I

observe it, memories of the past (mis)interpreting the present

moment, etc.

In the end any " knowledge " is only the concoction of a human brain,

and a human brain can't really " know " the truth...it can only

interpret and project it's own relative reality. Seems to be the

best thing we've got going in a body.

I am reading a wonderfully funny and engaging book called Dropping

Ashes on the Buddha...a collection of dialogues, dharma stories and

letters from the Korean Zen Master Seung Sahn, who was

's teacher. Repeatedly he would say to his students, " If you

answer, I will hit you 30 times. If you say nothing, I will hit you

30 times. What can you do? "

Seems to be the way of it, huh? We just can't know squat, and if we

did, how would we tell it? How would it be heard? As I am fond of

saying, those of us with eyes can all agree that there is a

color " blue. " And yet, we can't know if my " blue " is your " blue. "

And if you are born with no eyesight, is there still a " blue? "

Beats the heck out of me. (Hit hit hit hit hit hit)

Love, Carol

> >

> > >>You appear to have an underlying belief

> > that getting cosmetic surgery is divinely inspired not

egoically

> > motivated. Can you be sure?<<

> >

> > I don't have that belief other than to say, underneath it all,

what

> ISN'T divinely inspired? I have no idea what 's motivation

was.

> I only know what I heard: that she thought she was beautiful before

> having a face lift, and she had a face lift because the idea and

> opportunity presented themselves and she couldn't see why not.

>

> I absolutely LOVE your tenacity, my tenacity to see the motivation

for

> a face lift through our respective lens. got a face lift

> because she preferred to look differently than she did. Her story!

>

> Can I explore another story with you?

>

> What if we have a pearl of light inside each one of us. This pearl

of

> light is wrapped in filters. Now ALL of it is divine, but divinity

> likes to play and constantly tempts us with what will you choose

with

> that free will of yours - the light or the filter? With the light

you

> get unending, unparalled bliss - choose filter behavior you get a

> temporary high/payoff. Most face lifts last maybe 5 years...then

many

> times the skin is even saggier than before...

>

> Does that mean should be discarded and that nothing she says

is

> worth a plug nickel? Not at all. I listen more closely now - I

> inquire a little more deeply now into what she is saying so I can

have

> the eureka of my own truth...

>

> I love that I keep explaining this. Each time I do I love the

feeling

> I get of the Truth that is here for me. So thanks for your

tenacity -

> you so help me to look even deeper.

>

> >

> > At that Cleanse where she discussed having the procedure, she said

> she was hanging out in front of the mirror before she had it done,

she

> played at pulling the skin aside, and she liked what she saw. She

did

> not say she didn't like what she saw the other way.

>

> Well help me out here. Face pulled, face not pulled. I like them

> both equally - would I still get a face lift? Well, seems for me

the

> answer would be no.

> >

> > I can relate only because I like what I see in my mind's eye when

I

> see me without the 50 additional pounds I carry...and truly I do not

> see a difference between what she describes as her experience, and

> mine. I'm not exactly unhealthy so why not " love what is " with 50

> extra pounds? That's the point, you see -- I do now. Same. And I

> hear you -- your integrity is your integrity. I totally respect

that.

>

> So why don't you go get gastric by-pass surgery???? Just a

rhetorical

> kidding question...trying to equalize the playing field...

>

> Blessings - Jan