Guest guest Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 " marianne " wrote: > I have been a bit disappointed with some of the reactions from the > group about 's face lift..I think it was great for her to do, if > that brings her joy. After doing some work on my disappointment with > y'all, I realized that I also felt similar upsetness with my parents > when I was 10 years old...and I found out that they had *sex*....oh, > gross! Why would they do a thing like THAT!?! <smile> After all, they > were God to me and I couldn't imagine them doing anything so human.... > > love, > nne In a seminar I attended, was working with an obese man who commented that he wanted to lose weight. then said - I want to get up (and she just sat there). I want to get up (and she just sat there). She then said - in the end we always end up doing exactly what we want to do no matter what we tell ourselves. Then she commented that if her legs and arms were cut off, she would still love what is because that's Reality. Hmmmmm, but if the face ages.... Thoughts appear. It's true, you are not the doer but you do have free will. I notice that yesterday the thought crossed my mind that I was going to hit the car in front of me. I applied the brakes harder. I didn't want to hit that car so I did what I wanted to - listen to the thought and not hit the car. We do what we want to do. got a divorce because she wanted to get a divorce. She says it was because her ex-husband was running a story about her that she was a bitch and the " kind " thing to do was to divorce him - nonsense. What is she doing in his business? You cannot have it both ways. She got a face lift because she wanted to get a face lift. It didn't just happen. Somewhere we run a story that looking younger is better. It's cultural behavior that so many of us agree that looking younger is preferable to looking old that we no longer see the insanity of not accepting ourselves the way we are. I find it amusing that people do worksheets on people being in 's business. Seems protective. Seems -worshipful. I think I'd just respect her a lot more if she could distinguish between the voices she listens to that are the ego just sounding like God. Divinely inspired divorce - divinely inspired face lifts. That ego....pesky.... So nne, please answer the question - why would a face lift give someone joy? Blessings - Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 To please herself...I don't see a difference between ego and Ego...living , loving, being happy, being free of my painful stories is the biggest Ego trip I've ever known... I love you, nne > > So nne, please answer the question - why would a face lift give > someone joy? > > Blessings - Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 > To please herself...I don't see a difference between ego and > Ego...living , loving, being happy, being free of my painful stories > is the biggest Ego trip I've ever known... > > I love you, > nne > > > > So nne, please answer the question - why would a face lift give > > someone joy? > > > > Blessings - Jan Please stay with me on this if it serves you...I wanna get what's here for me. If you love what is and you accept what is...and you identify with Self, what's to change? If you wish to change something, what does that mean? Who would you be without your stories? Someone who goes and gets a face lift? Where does it stop? Would you question her if she had a chin implants, cheek implants, regular botox, liposuction, breast augmentation and tummy tuck in addition to the face lift? Just interesting to me. I'm so believing my story that loving what is means just that - loving what is. Change the body is ego defined, ego reinforcing behavior. How would it be if were a man and got a face lift? What would you think of Bush if HE got a face lift. What would you think of a four year old child who got a face lift? Or a 21 year old girl? What would you think of me if I got my cat a face lift? When you just accept it all - everything is okay - then are you not saying I don't go in to find what is true for me? Does this not lead to a form of denial? It's true a pedophile doesn't do anything wrong - it's all perfect....when we are the perpetrator on our own bodies....it's true - it's all perfect but if you know a better way of experiencing love...you experience love without being a perp. Blessings - Jan For me the work is about finding MY truth - what feels painless to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2004 Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 > > ... > > Please stay with me on this if it serves you...I wanna get what's here > > for me. > > I'm with you, Jan. I want the juice that's here for me, too. > > > If you love what is and you accept what is...and you identify with > > Self, what's to change? If you wish to change something, what does > > that mean? > > What if something changes without anyone wishing it? What if there's > no " you " there to have the wish to change something? If a person loves > what is as you're describing it, why would they eat? Why would they > get out of bed? If I take what I'm hearing all the way, I'd judge > *any*one who does *any*thing -- any action changes what is. I agree. There is a flow of consciousness. A pedophile is convinced that he is doing what the voices inside him say is the best way to experience love. Without inquiry, he remains confused. According to the 's face lift legend, number put in her hand, phone call made - voila face lift - no inquiry. I've noticed that I too don't inquire when I want something bad enough. > > My perspective, on the other hand, is that all the action is part of > what is. My eating my breakfast, all the posts on the list, 's > facelift, my facelift (if I ever get one , my shaving my head every > morning. What Is doesn't seem to be static. It seems to move all the > time. Without constantly asking who am I - most acts come from confused thinking. > > > Who would you be without your stories? Someone who goes > > and gets a face lift? Where does it stop? Would you question her if > > she had a chin implants, cheek implants, regular botox, liposuction, > > breast augmentation and tummy tuck in addition to the face lift? > > I'm hearing an assumption that a choice to make a change to one's > appearance has something to do with one's state of awakening. My > assumption is that the awakened being has *no* limits (or fewer limits > than I do, anyway) -- such a one could do *any*thing (and some > apparently do). The ones I've encountered (whether through reading or > in person) seem much less predictable to me than the rest of us. I > think that's why I find the things Zen masters and sages say so > surprising sometimes. Not my experience. Zen is crystal clarity to me. > > You asked, " Where does it stop? " Why should we expect it to stop > anywhere? Do you remember the story about Bernard Shaw (if I > remember correctly) asking a woman if she'd sleep with him for > $1,000,000? She blushed and agreed that she probably would. He then > asked if she'd sleep with him for $100. She slapped him and said > indignantly, " What sort of a woman do you take me for? " His response > was, " Well, I thought we had already established that and had gotten > down to negotiating the price. " Now that I've told the story, I'm not > quite sure how it applies, but it always makes me chuckle, and it > seemed related when I started. Made me laugh too. > > An awakened being wouldn't spend more than $X on fripperies. > > Can I really know that's true? I think I can't. > > Whose business is it how they spend their money? Theirs. It becomes mine when I ponder it and acquiese that the action they took had some meaning for me. Then I need to inquire just as I'm doing now. > > Whose business is it whether I enter into a financial transaction with > this awakened being? Mine. > > How does it feel when I believe that thought? I've got my checklist to > certify who's awakened and who isn't. He is, she is, he isn't, not > him, not her, he is, she isn't, ... I'm in their business, judging > them, worshipping the ones who (I think) are awake, scorning the ones > who (I think) are not. I believe I can tell the difference. I become a > crusader to warn the world about the charlatans. I get to feel very > important and powerful and skeptical. I don't trust any of them. They > all better toe the line or I'll get them. Feels like war. Feels > stressful. Feels supremely blissful over here. I'm getting that one can be pretty clear and still have bullshit. For me it's not enlightened - unenlighted - it's wow so much light but there's a little gray area over here...I'm not running a story about having to be perfect to be fabulous. I'm also not running a story that IS perfect and doesn't still miss the mark. I'm pulling away from her and seeing what's true for me in this. > > Who would I be without that thought? More peaceful. Jan might think > I'm in denial. Oh, well. Another thought to inquire into. More > relaxed about how I spend *my* money -- I don't have to meet some > artificial standard to " prove " I'm less asleep than someone else. Tom - let me be real clear here because this is too beautiful for words. If you think the " universe " , " God " , " love " or whatever you wish to name IT doesn't love you enough to send you all the free help you need to make it to the other side of consciousness - you underestimate this game. I wanted a teacher so badly, the universe orchestrated me being at a stranger's house and that stranger asking me to drive with her to the airport to get Rammurti.....please - you want it bad enough - it's free. How does it is fine - she gives the important stuff away - she has to - if they have any clarity at all, they all have to. > > TA: There's just no telling what an awakened being might do, just like > anybody else only more so. > > > Just interesting to me. I'm so believing my story that loving what is > > means just that - loving what is. Change the body is ego defined, ego > > reinforcing behavior. > > Can I really know that's true? What about body piercings? What about > the " make up " primitive shamans use? Why wear clothes? Why wear > glasses? (me, I wear 'em cause I like to see. Silly me. Inquire Tom - how deep does this self-hatred thing go? How many years have we been hating ourselves or fearing our power? > > > How would it be if were a man and got a > > face lift? What would you think of Bush if HE got a face lift. > > What would you think of a four year old child who got a face lift? > > Or a 21 year old girl? What would you think of me if I got my cat a > > face lift? > > Bush got a face lift. Oh really? I wonder if that'll hurt him > in the polls? > > Little ny got a face lift? Hmmm. I wonder if it was his choice or > his parents? > > Sally Anne got a face lift? Wow, and I thought she was pretty already. > > Jan got her cat a face lift? What a hoot! I wonder what the cat > thinks about it? > > > When you just accept it all - everything is okay - then are you not > > saying I don't go in to find what is true for me? Does this not lead > > to a form of denial? > > My experience seems to be that accepting it all *requires* going in > and finding out my truth. I have not been able to love what is without > inquiry and self-exploration. It's only as I have been honest with > myself and faced what's really there that I've experienced greater > peace and balance in my life. > > I can *say* everying is okay and pretend to love what is for a little > while without inquiry, but when I do, pretty soon something comes > along and pushes me in a way that makes me lose my balance and I fall > over. If I then inquire into that, my balance improves. If I run away > and hide from myself and pretend nothing happened, it doesn't. That's > what I call denial -- pretending myself beyond my evolution in an > attempt to ignore the places where " everything is okay " really isn't > mine yet. > > > It's true a pedophile doesn't do anything wrong > > - it's all perfect....when we are the perpetrator on our own > > bodies....it's true - it's all perfect but if you know a better way > > of experiencing love...you experience love without being a perp. > > > > Blessings - Jan > > > > For me the work is about finding MY truth - what feels painless to me. > > Okay. And I hear that getting a face lift would not be painless for > you. Is it possible that it might not be painful for everyone? > > A thought I had this afternoon about The Work went like this: > > I'm sitting here Loving What Is and it comes to me to apply for a > particular job. So now there's a desire -- to get hired into this job. > I can pursue the desire, or not, and I can stress over it, or not. > That makes four possibilities: > > - pursue the job peacefully > - pursue the job stressfully > - forget the job peacefully > - forget the job stressfully > > So I do The Work on pursuing the job. Doing The Work doesn't mean I'll > pursue it or that I won't. After doing The Work on the situation, I > might decide to pursue the job or not to pursue the job. > > Let's say I decide to pursue the job. I might get it, or not. While > I'm waiting to hear, I might stress, or not. Again, four > possibilities: > > - I get the job peacefully > - I get the job stressfully > - I don't get the job peacefully > - I don't get the job stressfully > > Again, doing The Work doesn't mean I'll get the job or that I won't > get the job. Doing The Work will just enable me to enjoy the ride more > peacefully. This is all inquiry for me. I'm loving this ride. > > Let's say I'm offered the job. Now I get to decide whether to accept > the offer. I can accept the offer, or not. In the process of deciding, > I can stress, or not. Four possibilities. You get the idea. > > I don't find The Work telling me what to do. It just helps me get to > peace, and peace knows what to do. What peace knows to do through Tom > and what peace knows to do through Jan are likely very different. I hear you. I just love Ramana Maharshi's line - keep asking Who Am I? to yourself. Ultimately I'm clueless why got her face lift - for me this has been an exercise in my issues with face lifts and it's been a wonderful ride! I love that I adore my body just as it is - that's less stressful for me - so even if the universe whispered in my ear - facelift - because my story is that facelifts are unecessary for me to experience love - I'd just throw the number out. Going to love is what this journey is about.... > > We could go back and replace " job " with " facelift " , " divorce " , " new > teacher " , " university degree " , or anything else we can think of. Ultimately you're right. The only question is what's the loving thing for me to do? I love that when you go through these permutations I'm struck by remembering Rammurti's stillness. There's something huge here about what I'm identifying with - self or Self...Thanks for responding... When all is said and done...I simply can't reconcile a teacher that talks about loving what is....loving her body if her arms and legs were chopped off....telling a morbidly obese man that his body was lovable just the way it was...then getting a face lift...not workin' for me Tom. getting a face lift, shooting people from a tower, being a pedophile - stressful ways to get love for me. Blessings - Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2004 Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 " The only question is what's the loving thing for me to do? " Jan As Eckhart Tolle realised - how many of there are you? Who is it who observes her actions/thoughts /feelings and decides if they are loving or not? Who judges the judge? Who loves the judge? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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