Re: hope as a barrier to enlightenment ?

[Guest guest]

>

> I want to talk about hope

>

> My story about hope is:

>

> Who needs " hope " when we have everything?

> Which is the state of " loving what is. "

>

> But I want to go deeper than that

>

> If I love what is

> I don't need hope

> because I don't want reality to be any

> different than it is

>

> I don't hope to change my life

> because I see everything include my life prefect as they are

>

> But,

> Could it be

> that living life with no hope

> not loving what is

> feeling desperate,

> having nothing to hold to

> and I emphasize

> N-O H-O-P-E

>

> maybe it is a good ground

> for the loving what is state of mind to pop up

>

> I will explain:

> Maybe ,

> before her enlightenment

> while laying on the floor

> she came to a point in her life

> where she gave up, had no hope

> that things would be any defrent

>

> and than... boom... it happened

>

> maybe hopping

> that things would be " better "

> for us, can be a barrier for enlightenment

>

> I don't know

>

> what do you think?

Tami- Hope strikes me as a mind game, to procrastinate. Also, I think

I need to be uncomfortable to change. Love, Doug

[Guest guest]

Yes Tami,

Some of my thoughts are as follow:

Hope can be a tricky subject. I do not see it as necessarily black

and white, as someone else may come up with examples of hope that are

not symptoms of confusion; however, if we have hope that our life can

be better than it is now, then we are arguing with what is and we are

in a state of confusion. We are not understanding a lot of things

such as:

we are saying that our life (or someone else's life)is not " good

enough " right now so it should " get better " ,

we are not understanding that what we call " our life " is merely a

projection of our thinking,

we are saying that there is a future in which things might be more as

we want them to be,

we are saying that " we know more or better than God " ,

and we are believing that there is a separate someone (us) that can

have a life and that can hope.

I agree with your example regarding 's experience being assisted

by her being in a state of " no hope " . This reinded me of what the

Course In Miracles says is required in order for a miracle to occur.

The Course says that we must have a " little willingness " and I think

that as long as we hold on to our " hope " , we are not really " willing "

but we are wanting a specific outcome to take place in a future time.

This " little willingness " is the same thing that is required for us

to do The Work. In order to ask " Is it true? " , we must be willing to

see things differently and not to define what " differently looks

like " .

Love and Blessings, Steve D.

.

>

> I want to talk about hope

>

> My story about hope is:

>

> Who needs " hope " when we have everything?

> Which is the state of " loving what is. "

>

> But I want to go deeper than that

>

> If I love what is

> I don't need hope

> because I don't want reality to be any

> different than it is

>

> I don't hope to change my life

> because I see everything include my life prefect as they are

>

> But,

> Could it be

> that living life with no hope

> not loving what is

> feeling desperate,

> having nothing to hold to

> and I emphasize

> N-O H-O-P-E

>

> maybe it is a good ground

> for the loving what is state of mind to pop up

>

> I will explain:

> Maybe ,

> before her enlightenment

> while laying on the floor

> she came to a point in her life

> where she gave up, had no hope

> that things would be any defrent

>

> and than... boom... it happened

>

> maybe hopping

> that things would be " better "

> for us, can be a barrier for enlightenment

>

> I don't know

>

> what do you think?

[Guest guest]

> If a person can be practiced enough to be so telepathic that

> they can know what anyone is thinking or going to do at any one

> time, then perhap they no longer need hope, because they'll

> simply know. Let me know if you've found someone like that -

> wouldya? I don't know to what degree this person would be

> enlightened, but most likely they could be easily on their way

> .

Hi Lyn

Let say you are practice enough

and you trained to know the future

o.k

And let say

that you " know " that in 3 month from today

you will win the lotto,

until now

I see no problem :-)

But if you would know

with your telepathic talent

that a big disaster is going to happen in your family

And you know it will happen

wouldn't you hope, that your telepathic senses

mislead you this time.

My point is

we " use " hope

whenever we don't love what is

or in that case

what is about to happen

I am not saying that hope is a bad thing

it is just a outcome of not loving what is

you can ether hope

that thing would change for the better

or, come to see

that things are already perfact

I don't see my life as perfact

So, I hope a lot :-)

Tami

[Guest guest]

Hey Judy

I would really love to understand your point of view better and I

think if you gave me an example of a hope that you have. One that

represents ones innocence arising within the heart, preserves the

perfection of the present and doesn't imply anything is wrong with

what is now, I could understand it better.

Warmly

Chris

>

> >

> > I see hope as a thief that steals your attention away from how

> > beautiful everything already is.

> >

> > Hope presupposes that things could get better, that " The sun

will

> > come out tomorrow " and that something is wrong with the here

and now.

> > One thing that repeats frequently is the she is a " Women

with

> > no future " . What does that mean?

> > I think it means that if she died right now then everything is

> > perfect.  nothing could be added.  She walks in a state where

> > everything is complete and perfect.  Nothing needs to be changed

> > because nothing is wrong.  Why would you need hope if nothing

needs

> > changing?  It can't get any better than being truely free.

> >

> > Despite you truely beautiful poetic prose in homage of hope.

Hope

> > has a future orientation and negates the present. Taking one

away

> > from reality and what is.  Failure is an inherent component of

> > hope.  If things really needed to be changed, you would just

change

> > them.  Not indulge in fantasy or wishful thinking. 

> >

> > There is a word that is worthy of all the qualities in your

post,

> > but it is not 'hope', for hope has a darker side that takes us

away

> > from reality.

> >

> > I hope you find what you are looking for.

> >

> > Chris

> >

> > > Here is how I see hope.

> > >

> > > On this earth we must act. (Everyone does until they don't).

> > >

> > > I see HOPE as innocent arising within the heart.

> > >

> > > So I am subtracting any sense of fear or worry from hope.

> > >

> > > Just pure innocent hope put there by god (as I perceive God).

> > >

> > > So I would say:

> > >

> > > Hope is a vital, expansive part of life. Without hope, life

> > becomes

> > > dry. There is a difference, however, between hope and

expectation.

> > > Expectation thinks, nearly insists, that something must

happen and

> > > experiences a big let down that can lead to depression and

> > resentment

> > > when it does not happen according to plan. Expectation carries

> > > suitcases containing demands, attachments, and lots of ego.

Hope

> > > travels light, with no baggage.

> > >      

> > > Hope is a light shining in your heart. Hope says, " Yes! I will

> > plant

> > > the tree! " Hope holds a vision of apples already growing on

the

> > tree.

> > > Then, expectation jumps in. Expectation crowds out the

innocent,

> > > expansive energy of hope. Hope can let go. Expectation can

only

> > grab.

> > > Hope holds a vision put there by God. Expectation takes hold

of

> > that

> > > vision and calls it " mine. "

> > >

> > > .....works for me

> > > xxx000

> > > Judy

> > >

> > >