Guest guest Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 > > Please stay with me on this if it serves you...I wanna get what's here > for me. > > If you love what is and you accept what is...and you identify with > Self, what's to change? Nothing to change...only my thinking If you wish to change something, what does > that mean? It means something needs to change. Who would you be without your stories? Without stressful stories, free Someone who goes > and gets a face lift? yes Where does it stop? I've never had a facelift Would you question her if > she had a chin implants, cheek implants, regular botox, liposuction, > breast augmentation and tummy tuck in addition to the face lift? No, and I wouldn't mind having a tummy tuck after 3 babies (one was 10 pounds) > > Just interesting to me. I'm so believing my story that loving what is > means just that - loving what is. Yes, I hear that Change the body is ego defined, ego > reinforcing behavior. Ask yourself. For me, no. When I clean myself I do it because I love my body and I like the way I feel and smell after I bathe. How would it be if were a man and got a > face lift? I don't care What would you think of Bush if HE got a face lift. not my business > What would you think of a four year old child who got a face lift? I don't know if my four year olds ever wanted a face lift...they liked to draw on their faces though with magic marker...pretty. > Or a 21 year old girl? not my business... my 21 year old was into piercing her tongue and tatooes though... What would you think of me if I got my cat a > face lift? Can you do that? I'd say you were in your cat's business! <smile> > > When you just accept it all - everything is okay - then are you not > saying I don't go in to find what is true for me? I say go in Jan, and find out for yourself. Does this not lead > to a form of denial? I believe if you are a lover of truth, and you are sincere...how can you fail to find the truth for yourself. It's true a pedophile doesn't do anything wrong Do you believe THAT Jan? I don't. How did you get from a facelift to pedophile? > - it's all perfect....when we are the perpetrator on our own > bodies....it's true - it's all perfect but if you know a better way > of experiencing love...you experience love without being a perp. Yes, that is it....how to experience your true nature...yes? Some call the body a work of art...people tattoo, pierce, paint, cut and poke it with feathers, decorate, clothe in fancy fabrics, you get the picture...love the body...the body of God...because we can....because we love God... > > Blessings - Jan > > For me the work is about finding MY truth - what feels painless to me. Yes, me too. Maybe had the facelift for your self realization.... Dear Jan, Thank you for your thoughts. I was amazed to see your thoughts go from face lift to pedophile. What is going on for you? Are you uncomfortable more with the idea of surgery that changing the body? The pain of surgery maybe? Maybe you have the thought that has been the perpetrator of her own body. with love, nne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2004 Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 > > > Jan: Please stay with me on this if it serves you...I wanna get what's here > > for me. > > > > If you love what is and you accept what is...and you identify with > > Self, what's to change? > nne: Nothing to change...only my thinking Jan: I understand this and I am learning so much about me and my thinking by judging . > Jan: If you wish to change something, what does > > that mean? > nne: It means something needs to change. Jan: That word " needs " - pesky - not workin' for me. We sit, we stand, we're horizontal - this is life regardless of economic status, relationship status, body status. > > Who would you be without your stories? > Without stressful stories, free > > Someone who goes > > and gets a face lift? > yes From over here, your inquiry isn't asking a primary question - WHO ARE YOU? When you get that you are NOT the body - REALLY get that, the body ceases to be something that you cater too from your self hatred. > > Where does it stop? > > I've never had a facelift > > Would you question her if > > she had a chin implants, cheek implants, regular botox, liposuction, > > breast augmentation and tummy tuck in addition to the face lift? > > No, and I wouldn't mind having a tummy tuck after 3 babies (one was 10 > pounds) Well perhaps you equally lack discernment when purchasing items from a sales person...that's fine. I really like to inquire if the message jives with the actions - and actions tell me more about what a person believes than their words do. > > > > Just interesting to me. I'm so believing my story that loving what is > > means just that - loving what is. > > Yes, I hear that > > Change the body is ego defined, ego > > reinforcing behavior. > > Ask yourself. For me, no. When I clean myself I do it because I love > my body and I like the way I feel and smell after I bathe. I invite you to inquire more deeply...think like a zebra. > > > What would you think of me if I got my cat a > > face lift? > Can you do that? I'd say you were in your cat's business! <smile> Oh so you draw a line here? Have you ever seen a cat that looked like they needed a face lift? I haven't. Are you beginning to get this? I'm sure that vets if they started now could have us getting our pets plastic surgery and thinking it was the sane thing to do by 2050. Without a story, a supportive medical community, you wouldn't even get that anyone ever needed a face lift.... > > > > It's true a pedophile doesn't do anything wrong > > Do you believe THAT Jan? I don't. > How did you get from a facelift to pedophile? KATIE and I both believe that a pedophile didn't do anything " wrong " . Simply being themselves AND KATIE SAYS IF THEY KNEW A BETTER WAY TO EXPERIENCE LOVE THEY WOULD GO THERE. I've had experiences where the walls of my heart melted away and I was in bliss - everyone was absolutely exquisitely beautiful. THIS is what we all wish to return to. In that state getting a face lift is absolutely ludicrous. > > > Maybe had the facelift for your self realization.... > > Dear Jan, Maybe you have the thought that has > been the perpetrator of her own body. BING - BING - BING!!!! Now you're beginning to see what I'm seein'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Burton wrote: > > The only motivation for getting a facelift is that you didn't love your face > before. It is impossible to take that action for any other reason. > > Is that true? Can you absolutely know that it is true? No , I've simply noticed that 100% of my experience is that people get facelifts because they liked the way they looked - in the past - more so than they do now. Body identification. I prefer to identify with the amazing Source instead of this temporary body. And this body - an extension of my ego is damn good at distracting me from that which is the ONLY thing that will give me unceasing joy. > > > Based on my knowledge and experience I know enough about being and living > in her world to make an accurate and valid assessment as to why she chose to > perform a certain action. > > Is that true? Nope. When I inquire, I only get to know myself better which is what I'm doing. > > > I may question thoughts that arise from my assessment, but it is simply a fact > that I know why she did it, and based on that I recognize that her action was > unenlightened, and it would have been impossible for her to do it if she were > acting from her highest self. > > Is that true? I only know what's true for me. When I'm immersed in That, the thought of a face lift is laughable. Everything is just so beautiful and perfect just as it is. > > > I'm just guessing at underlying beliefs, but I'm not you so I can't say. What > do you think? I think that some of my old underlying beliefs - that I'm looking for someone I can trust - is me - not . When I ask me - I know what's the truth for me. > > By the way, I find myself looking up a lot of interesting references from your > posts. I had never heard of Rammurti before. Thanks for sharing your eclectic > spiritual/personal discoveries. You are welcome. I love being quite ecclectic. It makes the journey clearer for me. From your post do I read you right? Having a story is bad? Having underlying beliefs is undesirable? Can you really know that? My experience is that I generally always have a story until they just simply drop away. I'm okay with that. My experience also is that you must FULLY embrace that story before you get it and it drops. And I sure am embracing this story - don't ya think??? *smile* Blessings - Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 , Burton wrote: I wrote you a response, but it didn't appear on the board. Please read my response to Carol as it mirrors your post somewhat. I can know that has a clear lens for seeing because she says she does - Is that true? > > The only motivation for getting a facelift is that you didn't love your face > before. It is impossible to take that action for any other reason. > > Is that true? Can you absolutely know that it is true? I've noticed that getting a face lift is to change what is - not love what is. If I love myself REALLY loved what is - why would I get a facelift? Can you give me a reason? > > > Based on my knowledge and experience I know enough about being and living > in her world to make an accurate and valid assessment as to why she chose to > perform a certain action. > > Is that true? People told her she was prettier before and she agreed. She got a face lift. These are 's words. Without a story, how would one know a before or a prettier? Doesn't work for me using her own logic. > > > I may question thoughts that arise from my assessment, but it is simply a fact > that I know why she did it, and based on that I recognize that her action was > unenlightened, and it would have been impossible for her to do it if she were > acting from her highest self. > > Is that true? Based on her statements, it appears she wanted to look prettier. I'm okay that she appears to be confused sometimes. I'm okay that she is still evolving. I just wanna be sure that I'm staying with me and getting clear about what truth looks like for me. > > > I'm just guessing at underlying beliefs, but I'm not you so I can't say. What > do you think? I think you sound like you have underlying beliefs that if did something it MUST have been divinely inspired not egoically motivated. I'm beginning to know myself and if I got a face lift it would be because I wanted it and because I felt if made me look better - for me. I'd be confused. And so it goes. > > By the way, I find myself looking up a lot of interesting references from your > posts. I had never heard of Rammurti before. Thanks for sharing your eclectic > spiritual/personal discoveries. Isn't it fun!!!! So many ways back to remembering who we are! Blessings - Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 - > > I wrote you a response, but it didn't appear on the board. Thanks for writing back -- part of me worries whenever I get into a real discussion of ideas like this because people aren't always happy to risk looking at other perspectives. > Please read my response to Carol as it mirrors your post somewhat. > > I can know that has a clear lens for seeing because she says she > does - Is that true? Nope. I don't know anything about that. I just know I like the feeling I have about the Work, and I feel trusting of what I get from her. I'm willing to consider that she's simply human like everybody else, but of course I'd rather imagine that she's not. If I let myself pretend that idealized perfection exists, then I can aspire to it (and ALSO un-love myself for my lack of it), but intellectually I know it's a fantasy. > > > > The only motivation for getting a facelift is that you didn't love > your face > > before. It is impossible to take that action for any other reason. > > > > Is that true? Can you absolutely know that it is true? > I've noticed that getting a face lift is to change what is - not love > what is. If I love myself REALLY loved what is - why would I get a > facelift? Can you give me a reason? To " notice " is to move with incredible speed from perception to conclusion, but it doesn't make the conclusion fact. I notice that an unpaid bill is sitting in front of my monitor. Is that true? Yeah, I'm pretty sure about that. I notice lights blinking by my computer. True? Yep. I notice that to lose weight is to hate your fat body. True? Sure. Can I absolutely know? No -- I have to admit, there must be some exception. I've heard that if you learn to love your body the way it is, you become able to change its state without that act being an expression of hatred. I believe this is the very crux of what we're talking about here: To change something is absolutely and without exception a declaration that you did not love its original state. Is that true? > People told her she was prettier before and she agreed. She got a > face lift. These are 's words. Without a story, how would one > know a before or a prettier? Doesn't work for me using her own logic. I heard her say something about having preferences for one thing over another. I don't really know how that fits in. Maybe a truly awakened being would have zero preferences. > > I may question thoughts that arise from my assessment, but it is > simply a fact > > that I know why she did it, and based on that I recognize that her > action was > > unenlightened, and it would have been impossible for her to do it if > she were > > acting from her highest self. > > > > Is that true? > Based on her statements, it appears she wanted to look prettier. I'm > okay that she appears to be confused sometimes. I'm okay that she is > still evolving. I just wanna be sure that I'm staying with me and > getting clear about what truth looks like for me. What else can one know? > > I'm just guessing at underlying beliefs, but I'm not you so I can't > say. What > > do you think? > > I think you sound like you have underlying beliefs that if did > something it MUST have been divinely inspired not egoically motivated. Sure, it's nice to imagine that, but I don't feel like I can know that more than I know anything else. It's a lot easier for me to poke at what seems to be certainty on your part than it is for me to be certain of anything. > I'm beginning to know myself and if I got a face lift it would be > because I wanted it and because I felt if made me look better - for > me. I'd be confused. And so it goes. I think if I really believed everybody else's decision-making processes worked like mine then I'd be pretty depressed about it -- I'm pretty sure I'm haven't seen the light yet, but part of my assumption is that when I do then chopping wood and carrying water, while the same on the outside, will be worlds different on the inside. In which case making any conclusion about 's apples based on my oranges would be clearly fruitless, so to speak. Could be wrong about that, though. > > By the way, I find myself looking up a lot of interesting references > from your > > posts. I had never heard of Rammurti before. Thanks for sharing > your eclectic > > spiritual/personal discoveries. > > Isn't it fun!!!! So many ways back to remembering who we are! It's kind of a hobby. I wonder sometimes if I stay unenlightened just for the entertainment of the long road back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 - > No , I've simply noticed that 100% of my experience is that people > get facelifts because they liked the way they looked - in the past - > more so than they do now. Body identification. I prefer to identify > with the amazing Source instead of this temporary body. And this body > - an extension of my ego is damn good at distracting me from that > which is the ONLY thing that will give me unceasing joy. But if you completely cease to identify with your body, is there harm in playing with it? If I identify with a canvas I may protect it from the paint, but if I love it unconditionally, maybe I can paint freely without fear of loving one state or the other too much or too little. Or just as easily I can leave it blank. What determines my action? Whim? Why not play with whim if I have reached a state of non-attachment any outcome or conclusion? I'm sure many artists hate the blank canvas, but I believe in the possibility that some love it and just happen to paint on it. And maybe some love the blank canvas and never pick up a brush. But if they truly love the canvas unconditionally, I think the difference between those who paint and those who don't is very little. > Nope. When I inquire, I only get to know myself better which is what > I'm doing. Makes sense to me. > I only know what's true for me. When I'm immersed in That, the > thought of a face lift is laughable. Everything is just so beautiful > and perfect just as it is. I imagine that people who are immersed in That also thing eating is laughable sometimes. And then they eat or don't. Either is perfect. > From your post do I read you right? Having a story is bad? Having > underlying beliefs is undesirable? > > Can you really know that? > > My experience is that I generally always have a story until they just > simply drop away. I'm okay with that. My experience also is that you > must FULLY embrace that story before you get it and it drops. > > And I sure am embracing this story - don't ya think??? *smile* I hadn't thought of it like that. Yeah, I'm coming from a place where believing a story is undesirable, but not simply having one. But your way sounds nice. I guess I'd be afraid of forgetting that it was a story, but it sounds like you are maintaining your perspective pretty well. Thanks for talking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Burton wrote: > > > > > > I wrote you a response, but it didn't appear on the board. > > Thanks for writing back -- part of me worries whenever I get into a real > discussion of ideas like this because people aren't always happy to risk looking > at other perspectives. Nope - I love it and loved your responses. > I believe this is the very crux of what we're talking about here: > > To change something is absolutely and without exception a declaration that you > did not love its original state. > > Is that true? When you eat to lose weight it is a form of self hatred. When you eat to love yourself and in the process weight drops away of it's own accord - this appears to be love, love, love to me. This is the difference between different types of changes. I just wanna be sure that I'm staying with me and > > getting clear about what truth looks like for me. > > What else can one know? Nothing and I am using just like I use everyone - as a terrific point of inquiry! It's a lot easier for me to poke at what seems to be > certainty on your part than it is for me to be certain of anything. Yes, I find that all my worksheets/inquiry reflects this - but I loved reading this again... > I'm pretty sure I'm haven't > seen the light yet, but part of my assumption is that when I do then chopping > wood and carrying water, while the same on the outside, will be worlds different > on the inside. For me it is the same shift - if I think the goal is to keep the focus on me and I don't - thinking diet. I haven't made the shift yet to loving myself so much that my focus is always simply on me and the rest of my judgements fall away. > > > > > By the way, I find myself looking up a lot of interesting references > > from your > > > posts. I had never heard of Rammurti before. Thanks for sharing > > your eclectic > > > spiritual/personal discoveries. > > > > Isn't it fun!!!! So many ways back to remembering who we are! > > It's kind of a hobby. I wonder sometimes if I stay unenlightened just for the > entertainment of the long road back. It's all entertainment isn't it? Blessings - Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Burton wrote: > > > > My experience is that I generally always have a story until they just > > simply drop away. I'm okay with that. My experience also is that you > > must FULLY embrace that story before you get it and it drops. > > > > And I sure am embracing this story - don't ya think??? *smile* > > I hadn't thought of it like that. Yeah, I'm coming from a place where believing > a story is undesirable, but not simply having one. But your way sounds nice. I > guess I'd be afraid of forgetting that it was a story, but it sounds like you > are maintaining your perspective pretty well. > > Thanks for talking about it. > > Yes this comes from several perspectives - From - " I'm not suggesting you drop your story - it IS your religion. " or " I'm not going to take your hell from you. " This is a very important point. For me this appears to be a journey from one story - oh that's a lie - to the next - damn - that's a lie too - until - ah - no stories - mmmmmm - bliss. I thrill to the sound of a new story....gotta love 'em!!!! until they inevitably cause that pesky pain and separation thing! Blessings - Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 - > Yes this comes from several perspectives - From - " I'm not > suggesting you drop your story - it IS your religion. " or " I'm not > going to take your hell from you. " Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I'm not sure why I'm debating this with you -- I mean, I know that it's fun, and I can say that's why, but then part of me thinks that I'm right and wants to share that, which would be to take your story from you -- as if it were something you need to be protected from. And what if someone had managed to take some of 's stories when she was heading for the bottom? She might never have been forced to let go of all of them. Hm. I wonder if I didn't feel that way, whether I'd have any desire to play this game of debate. It has been fun and enlightening so far, so I guess no harm done. I'm also curious what you think about my painter/canvas analogy. I was pretty pleased with that. I guess I should have used a different angle than weight loss, cause I agree with the idea that self-acceptance causes physical change -- I need to find out where I put my Pathways book. I bought it but haven't really looked at it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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