Re: glyceryl oleate & polysorbate 20 question

[Guest guest]

> does anyone know if glyceryl oleate & polysorbate 20 are miscible

(mixable/soluble?) with each other? I've mixed up the two of them in a small

sample, and it *looks* like they are, but considering they're the same colour, I

can't really tell

I've never used that combinationation, but I can see why these two

materials would not be mixed together.

> I'm hoping to blend the two of them to create the HLB I " m looking for, ie mix

the glyceryl oleate with the polysorbate 20, then add them to oil to create a

blooming bath oil...

>

>Comments or thoughts?

Why use two emulsifiers and why Glyceryl Oleate and Polysorbate 20?

Maurice

------------------------

Maurice O. Hevey

Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Maurice!

I had glyceryl oleate recommend to me as a good ingredient to add to vegetable

oils to create a blooming bath oil.... I asked one of the technical " experts "

at Vopak/Van Water & for their recommendation of a pail sized,

non-comedogenic, oil soluble emulsifier, that I could add to vegetable oils to

create a blooming bath oil. They recommended glyceryl oleate.

As I quickly found out, however, by itself, it doesn't work. So I thought of

adding the polysorbate 20 to increase the HLB.

At this point in time, I'm trying to limit the amount of raw materials in my

inventory, and I'm already using polysorbate 20 for another product...

What I'd hoped for (as well as a product to use in vegetable oil base blooming

bath oils) was to have an oil soluble (low HLB) emulsifier on hand that I could

combine with the polysorbate 20 to create a variety of HLB's.

I've tried the polysorbate 80 in equal amounts with vegetable oil to try &

create a blooming bath oil as someone suggested on this list, but the two

seperated on me...

I take it from reading your email that combining the two (glyceryl oleate &

polysorbate 20) isn't going to work.

Any suggestions?

Your help is *really* appreciated!

Thanks,

.

Re: glyceryl oleate & polysorbate 20 question

> does anyone know if glyceryl oleate & polysorbate 20 are miscible

(mixable/soluble?) with each other? I've mixed up the two of them in a small

sample, and it *looks* like they are, but considering they're the same colour, I

can't really tell

I've never used that combinationation, but I can see why these two

materials would not be mixed together.

> I'm hoping to blend the two of them to create the HLB I " m looking for, ie mix

the glyceryl oleate with the polysorbate 20, then add them to oil to create a

blooming bath oil...

>

>Comments or thoughts?

Why use two emulsifiers and why Glyceryl Oleate and Polysorbate 20?

Maurice

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[Guest guest]

> I had glyceryl oleate recommend to me as a good ingredient to add to

vegetable oils to create a blooming bath oil.... I asked one of the technical

" experts " at Vopak/Van Water & for their recommendation of a pail sized,

non-comedogenic, oil soluble emulsifier, that I could add to vegetable oils to

create a blooming bath oil. They recommended glyceryl oleate.

> As I quickly found out, however, by itself, it doesn't work. So I thought of

adding the polysorbate 20 to increase the HLB.

That doesn't surprise me. Glyceryl Oleate has a HLB of 3.4.

Polysorbate 20 has a HLB of 16.7. When you mix these two emulsifiers

you can get a range 3.4 to 16.7.

0% Glyceryl Oleate + 100% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16.7

5% Glyceryl Oleate + 95% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16

10% Glyceryl Oleate + 90% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 15.4

15% Glyceryl Oleate + 85% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 14.7

20% Glyceryl Oleate + 80% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 14

25% Glyceryl Oleate + 75% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 13.4

30% Glyceryl Oleate + 70% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 12.7

35% Glyceryl Oleate + 65% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 12

40% Glyceryl Oleate + 60% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 11.4

45% Glyceryl Oleate + 55% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 10.7

50% Glyceryl Oleate + 50% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 10.1

55% Glyceryl Oleate + 45% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 9.4

60% Glyceryl Oleate + 40% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 8.7

65% Glyceryl Oleate + 35% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 8.1

70% Glyceryl Oleate + 30% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 7.4

75% Glyceryl Oleate + 25% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 6.7

80% Glyceryl Oleate + 20% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 6.1

85% Glyceryl Oleate + 15% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 5.4

90% Glyceryl Oleate + 10% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 4.7

95% Glyceryl Oleate + 5% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 4.1

100% Glyceryl Oleate + 0% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 3.4

> At this point in time, I'm trying to limit the amount of raw materials in my

inventory, and I'm already using polysorbate 20 for another product...

> What I'd hoped for (as well as a product to use in vegetable oil base

blooming bath oils) was to have an oil soluble (low HLB) emulsifier on hand that

I could combine with the polysorbate 20 to create a variety of HLB's.

What happens when you use just Polysorbate 20?

>I've tried the polysorbate 80 in equal amounts with vegetable oil to try &

create a blooming bath oil as someone suggested on this list, but the two

seperated on me...

Something is wrong here. Can you divulge your formula??

> I take it from reading your email that combining the two (glyceryl oleate &

polysorbate 20) isn't going to work.

If you look at the range of HLBs from above, the only blends that MIGHT

work would be

0% Glyceryl Oleate + 100% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16.7

5% Glyceryl Oleate + 95% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16

10% Glyceryl Oleate + 90% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 15.4

You need a high HLB to get a blooming effect.

Maurice

------------------------

Maurice O. Hevey

Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com

[Guest guest]

I used to make a blooming bath oil :

mineral oil to 100%

IPM 11%

Perfume 4%

C12-13 Pareth 3, 5%

(Volpo L3 Special)

The C12-13 Pareth 3 has HLB of 8, if this helps.

Dave Eastham

>

> > I had glyceryl oleate recommend to me as a good ingredient to

add to vegetable oils to create a blooming bath oil.... I asked

one of the technical " experts " at Vopak/Van Water & for their

recommendation of a pail sized, non-comedogenic, oil soluble

emulsifier, that I could add to vegetable oils to create a blooming

bath oil. They recommended glyceryl oleate.

>

> > As I quickly found out, however, by itself, it doesn't work. So

I thought of adding the polysorbate 20 to increase the HLB.

>

> That doesn't surprise me. Glyceryl Oleate has a HLB of 3.4.

> Polysorbate 20 has a HLB of 16.7. When you mix these two

emulsifiers

> you can get a range 3.4 to 16.7.

>

> 0% Glyceryl Oleate + 100% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16.7

> 5% Glyceryl Oleate + 95% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16

> 10% Glyceryl Oleate + 90% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 15.4

> 15% Glyceryl Oleate + 85% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 14.7

> 20% Glyceryl Oleate + 80% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 14

> 25% Glyceryl Oleate + 75% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 13.4

> 30% Glyceryl Oleate + 70% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 12.7

> 35% Glyceryl Oleate + 65% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 12

> 40% Glyceryl Oleate + 60% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 11.4

> 45% Glyceryl Oleate + 55% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 10.7

> 50% Glyceryl Oleate + 50% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 10.1

> 55% Glyceryl Oleate + 45% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 9.4

> 60% Glyceryl Oleate + 40% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 8.7

> 65% Glyceryl Oleate + 35% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 8.1

> 70% Glyceryl Oleate + 30% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 7.4

> 75% Glyceryl Oleate + 25% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 6.7

> 80% Glyceryl Oleate + 20% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 6.1

> 85% Glyceryl Oleate + 15% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 5.4

> 90% Glyceryl Oleate + 10% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 4.7

> 95% Glyceryl Oleate + 5% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 4.1

> 100% Glyceryl Oleate + 0% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 3.4

>

> > At this point in time, I'm trying to limit the amount of raw

materials in my inventory, and I'm already using polysorbate 20 for

another product...

> > What I'd hoped for (as well as a product to use in vegetable oil

base blooming bath oils) was to have an oil soluble (low HLB)

emulsifier on hand that I could combine with the polysorbate 20 to

create a variety of HLB's.

>

> What happens when you use just Polysorbate 20?

>

> >I've tried the polysorbate 80 in equal amounts with vegetable oil

to try & create a blooming bath oil as someone suggested on this

list, but the two seperated on me...

>

> Something is wrong here. Can you divulge your formula??

>

> > I take it from reading your email that combining the two

(glyceryl oleate & polysorbate 20) isn't going to work.

>

> If you look at the range of HLBs from above, the only blends that

MIGHT

> work would be

>

> 0% Glyceryl Oleate + 100% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16.7

> 5% Glyceryl Oleate + 95% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16

> 10% Glyceryl Oleate + 90% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 15.4

>

> You need a high HLB to get a blooming effect.

>

> Maurice

> ------------------------

> Maurice O. Hevey

> Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

> http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com

[Guest guest]

I've got to be the " dummy " here and ask the question, just what does

a blooming bath oil do? Thanks!

> I used to make a blooming bath oil :

>

> mineral oil to 100%

> IPM 11%

> Perfume 4%

> C12-13 Pareth 3, 5%

> (Volpo L3 Special)

>

> The C12-13 Pareth 3 has HLB of 8, if this helps.

>

> Dave Eastham

> >

> > > I had glyceryl oleate recommend to me as a good ingredient to

> add to vegetable oils to create a blooming bath oil.... I asked

> one of the technical " experts " at Vopak/Van Water & for

their

> recommendation of a pail sized, non-comedogenic, oil soluble

> emulsifier, that I could add to vegetable oils to create a blooming

> bath oil. They recommended glyceryl oleate.

> >

> > > As I quickly found out, however, by itself, it doesn't work.

So

> I thought of adding the polysorbate 20 to increase the HLB.

> >

> > That doesn't surprise me. Glyceryl Oleate has a HLB of 3.4.

> > Polysorbate 20 has a HLB of 16.7. When you mix these two

> emulsifiers

> > you can get a range 3.4 to 16.7.

> >

> > 0% Glyceryl Oleate + 100% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16.7

> > 5% Glyceryl Oleate + 95% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16

> > 10% Glyceryl Oleate + 90% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 15.4

> > 15% Glyceryl Oleate + 85% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 14.7

> > 20% Glyceryl Oleate + 80% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 14

> > 25% Glyceryl Oleate + 75% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 13.4

> > 30% Glyceryl Oleate + 70% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 12.7

> > 35% Glyceryl Oleate + 65% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 12

> > 40% Glyceryl Oleate + 60% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 11.4

> > 45% Glyceryl Oleate + 55% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 10.7

> > 50% Glyceryl Oleate + 50% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 10.1

> > 55% Glyceryl Oleate + 45% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 9.4

> > 60% Glyceryl Oleate + 40% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 8.7

> > 65% Glyceryl Oleate + 35% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 8.1

> > 70% Glyceryl Oleate + 30% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 7.4

> > 75% Glyceryl Oleate + 25% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 6.7

> > 80% Glyceryl Oleate + 20% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 6.1

> > 85% Glyceryl Oleate + 15% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 5.4

> > 90% Glyceryl Oleate + 10% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 4.7

> > 95% Glyceryl Oleate + 5% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 4.1

> > 100% Glyceryl Oleate + 0% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 3.4

> >

> > > At this point in time, I'm trying to limit the amount of raw

> materials in my inventory, and I'm already using polysorbate 20 for

> another product...

> > > What I'd hoped for (as well as a product to use in vegetable

oil

> base blooming bath oils) was to have an oil soluble (low HLB)

> emulsifier on hand that I could combine with the polysorbate 20 to

> create a variety of HLB's.

> >

> > What happens when you use just Polysorbate 20?

> >

> > >I've tried the polysorbate 80 in equal amounts with vegetable

oil

> to try & create a blooming bath oil as someone suggested on this

> list, but the two seperated on me...

> >

> > Something is wrong here. Can you divulge your formula??

> >

> > > I take it from reading your email that combining the two

> (glyceryl oleate & polysorbate 20) isn't going to work.

> >

> > If you look at the range of HLBs from above, the only blends that

> MIGHT

> > work would be

> >

> > 0% Glyceryl Oleate + 100% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16.7

> > 5% Glyceryl Oleate + 95% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16

> > 10% Glyceryl Oleate + 90% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 15.4

> >

> > You need a high HLB to get a blooming effect.

> >

> > Maurice

> > ------------------------

> > Maurice O. Hevey

> > Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

> > http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone....

thanks to all for the help, especially Maurice

My main concern was whether glyceryl oleate & polysorbate 20 would remain

mixed...

-----Original Message-----

From: Maurice O. Hevey [sMTP:maurice@...]

> As I quickly found out, however, by itself, it doesn't work. So I thought of

adding the polysorbate 20 to increase the HLB.

55% Glyceryl Oleate + 45% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 9.4

70% Glyceryl Oleate + 30% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 7.4

[] Thanks Maurice, the above were the two I tried. My main concern was

whether the glyceryl oleate & polysorbate 20 would remain mixed when added to

the oil, or whether they would seperate. The bath oil did seem to bloom, more

to less depending on what proportion of emulsifier to oil I used.

> At this point in time, I'm trying to limit the amount of raw materials in my

inventory, and I'm already using polysorbate 20 for another product...

> What I'd hoped for (as well as a product to use in vegetable oil base

blooming bath oils) was to have an oil soluble (low HLB) emulsifier on hand that

I could combine with the polysorbate 20 to create a variety of HLB's.

What happens when you use just Polysorbate 20?

[] Hmmph. I remember that it seperated, but I can't find my notes... I just

tried again, and it doesn't seem to be seperating... Theoretically, should the

polysorbate 20 & oil remain mixed?

>I've tried the polysorbate 80 in equal amounts with vegetable oil to try &

create a blooming bath oil as someone suggested on this list, but the two

seperated on me...

Something is wrong here. Can you divulge your formula??

[] Sure, it was simply a mix 50% polysorbate 80, 50% jojoba oil. There seems

to be a fine line/film separating the top layer from the lower & there seems to

be a minor viscosity/color difference between the top layer & the bottom layer.

> I take it from reading your email that combining the two (glyceryl oleate &

polysorbate 20) isn't going to work.

If you look at the range of HLBs from above, the only blends that MIGHT

work would be

0% Glyceryl Oleate + 100% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16.7

5% Glyceryl Oleate + 95% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16

10% Glyceryl Oleate + 90% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 15.4

You need a high HLB to get a blooming effect.

Maurice

------------------------

Maurice O. Hevey

Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com

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[Guest guest]

>If you look at the range of HLBs from above, the only blends that MIGHT

>work would be

>

>0% Glyceryl Oleate + 100% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16.7

>5% Glyceryl Oleate + 95% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 16

>10% Glyceryl Oleate + 90% Polysorbate 20 = HLB 15.4

>

>You need a high HLB to get a blooming effect.

Just use less. That should work also.

Here's a formula for a dispersable massage oil that should be " close "

to a blooming bath oil.

Hybrid Safflower (Carthamus Tinctorius) Oil = 47.45%

Grape (Vitis Vinifera) Seed Oil = 10%

Sunflower (Helianthus Annuus) Seed Oil = 20%

(Macadamia (Ternifolia) Nut Oil = 1%

Jojoba (Buxus Chinensis) Oil = 1%

Tocopherol = 0.5%

BHT = 0.05%

Polysorbate 85 = 20%

Maurice

------------------------

Maurice O. Hevey

Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com