Re: I am so mad!/You never know!/VICKI?Group

[Guest guest]

<< I truly can't think of a situation in which I wouldn't tell one of my

doctors or dentist exactly what I am taking for pain management.

Ray >>

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I can certainly see what Vicki is saying but I also see the other side of

the coin and see the point of what Ray is saying!

It could certainly pose a dangerous and possibly fatal situation in some

cases not to disclose to a Doctor all the meds you are on for pain!--HOWEVER--

I had a Doctor a few years ago that it was my 1st time seeing and did not

know how he felt on the issue of treating non malignant pain with opiates.

After I told him what I was being prescribed for pain he did the same as

Vicki's Dentist. Just because he didn't believe you should be treated with

opiates unless it was end of life treatment he called my then prescribing

Doctor and read him the riot act about Chemical Dependency and.....

My next offfice visit I got taken off all my pain meds and given the same

speech as well as I could lose my liscense so I just can't take the risk

anymore anyway! SOB's!

I feel for you Vicki and would just say next time maybe just ask the Doc. or

Dentist how they feel about the subject before disclosing anything to them.

If they tell you they don't agree with it then give your pain mgt. Doc. a

heads up that this other one strongly disagrees with any type of it and there

is no telling what he might call and say to voice his opposition. No dought

you were done wrong. Your pain mgt. Doc. could have done a urinalysis, pill

and day count etc. without dropping you as a patient! Could you have your

Primary Care call them and suggest that to show you are on the up and up on

your part so you could salvage the relationship!!!??

Good Luck!

y

[Guest guest]

Actually I have encountered this problem for years with psychiatric meds.

Now that I take both them and pain meds it is a double whammy. docs will

treat u differently if u are on either psych meds or pain meds. U are either

just crazy or seeking drugs. If has been most difficult to keep a primary

doc all these years while having to take psych meds. They don't like working

with the psych doc, and when I added the pain meds -wow did I ever get

lectures. So my psychiatrist just told me to stop telling them all the meeds

I took-b/c they do not want to work with psych pts. And a lot of times they

do not want to work with pain pts. It is not ideal-and if u can find a doc

that u can build a repore with-that is best.

Personally- I do not think it is the dentist businesses what u take for

pain-unless he may be prescribing u pain meds himself. But docs often call

and talk to each other whether u know it or not. Especially if they think u

are an addict or just plain crazy. it's not fair-but they do it.

[Guest guest]

I think depending on where you live and what is available to you as far as

County Hospitals, or don't you have any kind of insurance? Being in pain

without any kind of help is worse than throwing the Christians to the Lions,

in otherwords barbaric. Exhaust all avenues. Good Luck.....What does your

medication cost???? Alice

[Guest guest]

Could you tell the doctors what meds you are on but not disclose the

name of the clinic or doctors treating your pain? I think it is awful

the way people with pain get treated I know I have had bad luck getting

anything for pain I get vicoden my Rx is almost out and I need to call

for a refill but my husband is out of a job so no money for meds!! So

now I am in major pain again. I hope you find a new doctor to treat your

pain.

Pamm

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/03/2002 2:29:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

valijohn@... writes:

> But docs often call and talk to each other whether u know it or not.

> Especially if they think u are an addict or just plain crazy. it's not

> fair-but they do it.

It's also illegal without written permission from the patient and the

permission must specifically state what issues the patient permits the docs

to discuss. If they do not have the written permission or they discuss other

than what is authorized, it is against the law. Check your state's laws on

patient/medical records.

Carol

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/4/02 1:02:20 AM Central Standard Time,

msvvarrior@... writes:

> > But docs often call and talk to each other whether u know it or not.

> > Especially if they think u are an addict or just plain crazy. it's not

> > fair-but they do it.

>

> It's also illegal without written permission from the patient and the

> permission must specifically state what issues the patient permits the docs

> to discuss. If they do not have the written permission or they discuss

> other

> than what is authorized, it is against the law. Check your state's laws on

> patient/medical records.

>

> Carol

>

>

> I totally agree, carol, but I I know docs do this. It can sometime be hard

> to prove. and most docs do not fear pts. ESP pts who are poor and can't

> hire an atty. u can report them, and I certainly would, but I would not

> expect too much.[They can justify their calling by saying they feel u are a

> danger to yourself or others. ER's keep a record of suspected abusers and

> psych pts. believe me they pass that stuff around. If u ever get on the

> list of suspected abusers, you'll never get pain meds in your local area.

> Hospitals talk to each other, and docs do to. They justify it by deciding u

> are a danger to self or others.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm mad too, and it didn't happen to me. If that dentist only know what it

feels like to hurt every single day he wouldn't have never done that. Then

again he is a doctor he should have known better. Many of times medicine is

the only thing that gets me through the day. I guess I have a problem too.

People just don't understand. Those that don't I wish I could give them my pain

so they can, so they can feel for themselves how it is.

I'm sorry this is my first post: My name is Felicia, I'm 36 years old. In July

of 1997 I had a spinal fusion, then in 2000 I had a spinal stimulator put in.

My doctor is really great.

I have had a rought time, but I'm still able to work part-time. I guess you

know the rest.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/04/2002 3:11:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,

valijohn@... writes:

> They justify it by deciding u are a danger to self or others.

>

Vicki:

That is also a violation. If a doc decides you are a danger to yourself or

others, they [at least in most states] refer you immediately to psych

services for an evaluation [anywhere from 24-72 hours].

Of course, I know that frequent visitors to the ER will be well known to that

ER's staff. And, it doesn't have to be an addict or person with active

mental illness. I have seen it happen. Not too long ago when my mother was

in the ER [she had internal bleeding], a beautiful young college student was

called back to the ER to see the docs. She already had her bag packed and

looked like she was prepared to stay awhile. Turns out she was on a gurney

right outside my mother's room. They had her on IV morphine within 5

minutes. When they came by about 30 minutes later, they asked her if she was

feeling better. When she said she wasn't, they injected a bolus of another

medication to help her pain. Diagnosis: sickle cell crisis. She is in the

ER about 3 times a year, occasionally being admitted. They asked her this

time if she felt like she needed to be admitted, she said yes, and the

paperwork started in a hurry.

All of that, I guess, is to say that is good sometimes for the ER staff to

know a patient. I'm sure there are members of our group that the ER staff

know and attend to quickly as they know we are not abusing the system.

OTOH, you are quite right when you say that some ER staff/docs too quickly

label pain patients as addicts. Hopefully, things will get better and in a

hurry.

Carol

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/6/02 1:50:04 AM Central Standard Time,

msvvarrior@... writes:

>

> That is also a violation. If a doc decides you are a danger to yourself or

> others, they [at least in most states] refer you immediately to psych

> services for an evaluation [anywhere from 24-72 hours].

>

Psychiatrically, very true, at least that is what the law says. Having

worked in psych ER, I can tell u, that we saw many pts. that could have been

admitted, but b/c they were what we called " repeat offenders " often did not.

And the people who came in for pain meds were often left waiting for hours

and treated very poorly. Once a poor woman came in with migraines. The

staff had decided she was an addict, saying she'd been to every ER in town.

I'll never forget as long as I live-this woman came in one night when I was

there as a student. The nurse on duty told me she was an addict, and came in

for her Demerol shots several times a month. She told me to give the

injection. I was a student, and very unsure of my skills. She said she'd

guide me and oversee.(totally normal thing) She told me to give it in the

thigh-a painful place for an injection. I gave it as ordered, but being a

rooky-i wasn't very good at it. I know it must have hurt terribly. I felt

AWFUL, but powerless. Later, we heard through the grapevine-the woman had a

brain tumor. It was then I became a patient advocate and all during the time

I was an active RN, I have fought for patient rights and stood by and

protected my patients form some hateful doctors. That is not easy. Ask any

nurse who has ever locked horns with a doc. One hospital I worked at had a

psych/detox program. They had no OB/Delivery dept. They did not deliver

babies-yet they admitted woman up to time of childbirth for detox. It was a

dangerous thing to do. First we have 2 high risk patients, and an ER that

does not want to deliver the babies. I wrote a doc up and pursed it until I

got the policy changed. It was wrong and we all knew it. But no one wanted

to fight. But I did and it was at great cost to me. But I did not want to

be responsible for a mother or child dying due to someone being afraid of the

docs.

The docs are wrong to label pts but they do it. I know the laws in place to

protect pts. but they can so easily be circumvented. And generally the pt.

will never know anything about it. Especially if the pt. is poor, illiterate,

not aware of their rights.

Just this last year or so, it became mandatory for the medial staff to access

your pain, along with your vital signs. This is progress.

The statements I have made were not in defense of these docs, only to let u

know what u might be up against./and how the doc might try to justify what he

has done. Once a doc has written something in your medical record, well it

is there. Other docs who have access to your records will see it, and it is

rare doc who will argue with the records. Most will take it and just expound

on it. I have seen docs do physicals on psych pts. almost entirely based on

their chart. With that said, there are docs who think for themselfs.Docs who

do not let the insurance CO or anyone else tell them what to do.

U do have rights, and believe me I fight for mine now. But it helps to kwo

what u may be up against.

I guess I would have never believed docs and hospital staff did some of the

things they do, if I hadn't been worked ink it. I recommend u read " The

House of God. " It is an older book, but still timely. Probably at the

library.

When I go to the hospital now-I take a friend to watch over me. You'd be

surprised how much more attention u get when the staff know someone is

watching what they do.

a fellow chronic pain suffer, vali

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/04/2002 12:57:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

fmills@... writes:

> If that dentist only know what it feels like to hurt every single day he

> wouldn't have never done that. Then again he is a doctor he should have

> known better.

Welcome to the group.

Just so you know, only a dentist who as an MD is technically a doctor. The

only reason I know is because of some problems I have that my primary demands

I have a DMD for dental work and not a DDS.

Carol