Re: what does the doctor know?

March 26, 2004

Eva - I have struggled often with the question of whether I will ever

want to stop taking meds for depression. 's response to this

question is - If you were diabetic, would you stop taking insulin?

So, I agree with you that sometimes doctors can help. Finding a good

doctor who actually knows how to listen is very difficult in the US.

I was lucky to have finally found one. I do think, based on my

experience, that depression meds are often used very casually and

without attention to the individual's reactions. But if the time is

taken to try various combinations and see what actually works, meds

can be a great help. That's my story on the meds.

I still hope that there will come a time when I will feel comfortable

stopping them. That's my story about me, I guess. Many things have

helped with my depression, including of course, the Work which seems

above all to have loosened the hold of my depression addiction.

Through the work, I have discovered the alternatives. I keep asking

the question - How much of my recovery was due to the Work and other

work. How much was the meds? Now that I have all these

understandings and tools for investigating, do I still need the

meds? I guess I won't know until I try to stop, and I guess I will

do that when I do.

Thanks, Eva, for bringing this up. I have been thinking about doing

some work on this belief that I want to stop taking meds, and see

where it leads me. Maybe I'll get to it now.

kate

> Dear All,

>

> If my leg is broken, I go see a doctor to fix it. It's one of

's

> examples of how her body is her doctor's business, as I have heard

> her say on several occasions. She also tells us to take an aspirin

> when we have a headache (which I wouldn't necessarily see as the

best

> advice, since my experience is that my headaches are at least

partly

> caused by thoughts), and at the School in Brussels she told us she

> uses hormone cream on her arms because they were dry and flaky. Why

> doesn't she just do the work on those dry arms and love them as

they

> are?

>

> makes it clear that some things are not her area of

expertise.

> If the broken car causes you stress, do the work, but next call the

> garage. If the leaking roof causes you stress, do the work, and

then

> call the plumber. If you are depressed, do the work, and if the

> depression persist and you think it might be caused by a chemical

> inbalance, have a physical check-up.

>

> I agree that is very wise and I trust her advice on almost

> anything. But as she says, don't believe what I say. Find out for

> yourself. And maybe there are a few things here and there that even

> doesn't know. Maybe she doesn't know everything about what

> chemicals can do to someone's mood. Without her knowing it, it

might

> be outside her area of expertise.

>

> What's your story?

>

> Eva

March 26, 2004

Hi Eva,

As I recall, 's position is 'don't know' - in my experience, she doesn't

claim to know ANYTHING (since there really is no thing to KNOW) and I have never

actually heard her give what we call advice. For me, the work ends my arguement

with what is...and in clarity I make the best possible descisions in every area

of my life (well, descisions seem to be made - for me it starts to look like an

unfolding rather than me making decisions) and anyway, for the sake of this

discussion, lets just say that without my story I continue to make choices

without the suffering of believing that 'this shouldnt be happening, something

is terrribly wrong " Instead, I respond to what I see and am curious about what

the outcome will be - for me, this encompasses all of my experience - apparent

illness, 'deppression' which for me was my argument with reality - my

'deppression' dissolved as I worked on different arguments that I was having

with the way things were: people should be different, I should

be different, the world should be like I say....on and on. In my experience,

what I need ALWAYS is present in my life - sometimes that looks like advice from

a doctor, sometimes it looks like a friend lending me money to pay an

outstanding bill, and on and on. It all appears, and I dance with it and call

it my life. For me gives no advice - rather she is a living example of

the 4 questions and turn around - the dance that I call liife.

just my thoughts...

Eva Lobach wrote:

Dear All,

If my leg is broken, I go see a doctor to fix it. It's one of 's

examples of how her body is her doctor's business, as I have heard

her say on several occasions. She also tells us to take an aspirin

when we have a headache (which I wouldn't necessarily see as the best

advice, since my experience is that my headaches are at least partly

caused by thoughts), and at the School in Brussels she told us she

uses hormone cream on her arms because they were dry and flaky. Why

doesn't she just do the work on those dry arms and love them as they

are?

makes it clear that some things are not her area of expertise.

If the broken car causes you stress, do the work, but next call the

garage. If the leaking roof causes you stress, do the work, and then

call the plumber. If you are depressed, do the work, and if the

depression persist and you think it might be caused by a chemical

inbalance, have a physical check-up.

I agree that is very wise and I trust her advice on almost

anything. But as she says, don't believe what I say. Find out for

yourself. And maybe there are a few things here and there that even

doesn't know. Maybe she doesn't know everything about what

chemicals can do to someone's mood. Without her knowing it, it might

be outside her area of expertise.

What's your story?

Eva

March 26, 2004

I loved hearing say that perozac was also GOD - I notice that I/we love

the story that this is good and this is bad (very subtle at times - for me when

ever I do anything with the motive to fix something, almost everything)- or this

is okay for now, but the real goal is to get off meds and only do the work....or

whatever. I am just beginning to see that it really is all okay...my story

about whole foods -vs- processed foods, recycling, environmental issues, health

and wellness (natural alternative methods over westernallopathic medicine), not

taking any medications....on and on it all goes...I see how these are just all

my stories...that my path is my own and when I realized that nothing that anyone

else was doing was better or worse, just different, lots of stories just went

pooof! I have lots of friends and some family who are on anti anxiety meds and

meds for deppression, also sleeping pills - I used to have lots of judgements

about this stuff (and I know all the stories

about side effects, addiction, etc, .....) and I sometimes think they have

stories about how they need to get off of them (and I cnat really know their

stories) and I love that I heard say that no path is higher than any other

path, no thinking is higher than any other thinking, (when her son was

shoplifting, etc) she said that his path was at least as high as hers....its

just starting to sink in that its not smog that I'm breathing, it's GOD...and I

still recycle, eat whole organic foods when they are accessible, do yoga, don't

take meds (until I do), yada yada yada, and I love that I am noticing that

whatever path someone else is on is the perfect one for them - no exceptions.

The idea that there are no mistakes is easy to say...and for me the reality of

that continues to come through as I do the work. that there are NO mistakes is

so deep for me...I cant really comprehend this with my thinking mind... Do we

have a story that people should not be depressed? Do we have the

story that something needs to be fixed? I experienced what I called depression

on numerous occassions in my life...I had a story that I needed to fix

myself...I also was able to construct a happier story about my 'depression'

thanks in part to folks like (care of the soul) who do not see

depression (melancholy, shadow material) as the enemy, rather a friend baring

long forgotten gifts...that when embraced could lead to a deeper, richer

experience of life...I have a story that we are addicted to being 'happy, happy,

happy,' in our culture....sooo on the surface of experience that we make little

room for the depth of human experience...well, thats just a story, or course.

For me a question I ask myself is Is there room for all of my experience?

There's a hell of a lot more room in my life for me to show up as I am (very

flawed in a perfect kinda way, very confused-only as much as I need to be, jsut

here, now as this...) since the work. For that I am so grateful...When

I realized that i needed to make some changes in how I was living my life and I

was too afraid to make those changes, I went into a hole that I called

depression - I was afraid to recognise my own power and my own

responsibility...I was terrified when i saw the truth that no one was going to

come and rescue me...it was my life, it was up to me....when I was ready, I let

in the light (or the light came of its own accord) and made some changes

(changes occured)- I opened up and got curious about all of my experience. I

can still have times when I am experiencing something that I could call

deppression - yet with the work i can inquire into thought or not, and alos know

that what I need will always come to me. Realising this on a deep level

removed despair for me....What I called depression turned into something else

and now every day is a fascinating adventure whether I have a story that what

happens is good or bad...now I look and laugh and think " what a trip " !!!

Well, lots of rambling thoughts today...I'm clear that I'm just talking to

myself with this post and as Neo so clearly said, what i know best is my own

confusion...it is posted with love...

cheers,

catherine

keeptryingtoo wrote: