Re: Core of core beliefs - Concepts and theories

[Guest guest]

>

> Here's another core belief to add to that list: " Sanity doesn't

> suffer, ever. " ;-))

>

> Yep. All of 's babblings are just beliefs. Nothing special.

Andy, Andy, Andy ...

Lets hear what says about all this

Friend talking to says " We're all one " .

: " I don't do theories. As long as you think there's a and

a you, there is not One. It's just a concept. "

And " The Truth has no respect for any concept, no matter how sweet,

drippy, pure it is. It will spit it out for lunch. We worship

concepts. "

But you see the beauty of this whole thing is that I have a story

that when says " Sanity doesn't suffer, ever . . . ever! " it is

not a theory, not a concept, its the truth. For me to say it, it

would be a concept or a theory and it would be truer to say the turn-

around i.e. " Insanity does suffer " . This is my experience and I hear

from you that it appears to be yours to. It appears that we are both

insane

" Sanity doesn't suffer, ever . . . ever! Sanity doesn't suffer,

ever, ever! Isn't that lovely? " Byron

[Guest guest]

> Here's another core belief to add to that list: " Sanity doesn't

> suffer, ever. " ;-))

>

> Yep. All of 's babblings are just beliefs. Nothing special.

Andy, Andy, Andy ...

Lets hear what says about all this

Friend talking to says " We're all one " .

: " I don't do theories. As long as you think there's a and

a you, there is not One. It's just a concept. "

And " The Truth has no respect for any concept, no matter how sweet,

drippy, pure it is. It will spit it out for lunch. We worship

concepts. "

But you see the beauty of this whole thing is that I have a story

that when says " Sanity doesn't suffer, ever . . . ever! " it is

not a theory, not a concept, its the truth. For me to say it, it

would be a concept or a theory and it would be truer to say the turn- around

i.e. " Insanity does suffer " . This is my experience and I hear

from you that it appears to be yours to. It appears that we are both

insane

" Sanity doesn't suffer, ever . . . ever! Sanity doesn't suffer,

ever, ever! Isn't that lovely? " Byron

---I AM insane and I am quite happy to say " All of both your babblings are

just beliefs " , including 's pronouncements that are just one more

version of a persistent truth that defies even her attempts to define it:

Reality is redundant and confusing even to the people who insist they aren't

confused by it. To hell with all this " deep thought " ...let's go get some

beer and chips and...go insane together.

[Guest guest]

>

> ---I AM insane and I am quite happy to say " All of both your

> babblings are just beliefs " , including 's pronouncements that

> are just one more version of a persistent truth that defies even

> her attempts to define it:

> Reality is redundant and confusing even to the people who insist

> they aren't confused by it. To hell with all this " deep

> thought " ...let's go get some beer and chips and...go insane

> together.

>

Matt can you absolutely know that 's pronouncements are just

beliefs?

Personally speaking I can not, and find it much safer to say " I don't

know " . One day when I get clearer I may well find that 's words

are true. Until then I like to believe my story that is indeed

blessed with a clarity I have, but have yet to fully realize.

You said " Reality is redundant and confusing even to the people who

insist they aren't confused by it. " Can you really know that is true?

Is this just another concept you use to defend against that reality?

Finally, I have done beer and chips and it brought me no peace. I

prefer the Work and its gentle journey to the end of suffering.

" Sanity doesn't suffer, ever . . . ever! Sanity doesn't suffer,

ever, ever! Isn't that lovely? " Byron

[Guest guest]

>

> ---I AM insane and I am quite happy to say " All of both your babblings

> are just beliefs " , including 's pronouncements that are just one

> more version of a persistent truth that defies even her attempts to

> define it: Reality is redundant and confusing even to the people who

> insist they aren't confused by it. To hell with all this " deep

> thought " ...let's go get some beer and chips and...go insane

> together.

>

Matt can you absolutely know that 's pronouncements are just

beliefs?

---Yes.

Personally speaking I can not, and find it much safer to say " I don't

know " . One day when I get clearer I may well find that 's words

are true. Until then I like to believe my story that is indeed

blessed with a clarity I have, but have yet to fully realize.

---That's a good story.

You said " Reality is redundant and confusing even to the people who

insist they aren't confused by it. " Can you really know that is true?

---Yes I can. It's what I say reality is and it's my pronouncement about

people who are confused about it but don't know it. I am the ruler of my

world, and decide things like what is a " belief " and what reality is, and

the buck stops here. I reap the joy and the pain of my decisions...I live in

the land of " Cause and Effect " .

Is this just another concept you use to defend against that reality?

---It's a tool by which I move through " realty " and don't fall off into

doubt and confusion. I don't need to " defend " against " What is " , I just need

to be able to function in it even within the context of my delusions.

Finally, I have done beer and chips and it brought me no peace.

---I'm sorry...but then that just leaves more for me.

I prefer the Work and its gentle journey to the end of suffering.

---Yes...but does it go with pretzels?

[Guest guest]

>

> ---Yes I can. It's what I say reality is and it's my pronouncement

> about people who are confused about it but don't know it. I am the

> ruler of my world, and decide things like what is a " belief " and

> what reality is, and the buck stops here. I reap the joy and the

> pain of my decisions...I live in the land of " Cause and Effect " .

>

Okay Matt you are right, and I get to be happy

Sanity doesn't suffer, ever . . . ever! Sanity doesn't suffer, ever,

ever! Isn't that lovely?

[Guest guest]

Okay guys, it sounds to me like you are all correct and here is

my " story " .

It is all a story and there is no Truth that can be perceived by the

mind and it's sensory organs. So, why not make it a happy story by

questioning the painful stories?

Love, Steve D.

>

> >

> > ---Yes I can. It's what I say reality is and it's my pronouncement

> > about people who are confused about it but don't know it. I am

the

> > ruler of my world, and decide things like what is a " belief " and

> > what reality is, and the buck stops here. I reap the joy and the

> > pain of my decisions...I live in the land of " Cause and Effect " .

> >

>

>

> Okay Matt you are right, and I get to be happy

>

>

> Sanity doesn't suffer, ever . . . ever! Sanity doesn't suffer,

ever,

> ever! Isn't that lovely?

[Guest guest]

> ---Yes I can. It's what I say reality is and it's my pronouncement

> about people who are confused about it but don't know it. I am the

> ruler of my world, and decide things like what is a " belief " and what

> reality is, and the buck stops here. I reap the joy and the pain of my

> decisions...I live in the land of " Cause and Effect " .

>

Okay Matt you are right, and I get to be happy

---This is fun, sort of like the South Park ninjas. And my powers are that I

get to be right and happy...because I'm not burdened by trying to reverse

engineer myself in an attempt to remove unhappy and negative things from my

life and still assert that I " love what's real " . It's getting to feel a lot

like Christmas around here. There are gifts all over the place. Whoopee!

[Guest guest]

Okay guys, it sounds to me like you are all correct and here is

my " story " .

It is all a story and there is no Truth that can be perceived by the

mind and it's sensory organs. So, why not make it a happy story by

questioning the painful stories?

Love, Steve D.

---I have another story...love what's real and let " good " and " bad " happen

in your life without trying to Poppins everyone to death. Am I still

right?

[Guest guest]

Dear Matt:

It feels like you are to me, however, how could I know? That would

only be a judgement on my part and that counts for nothing.

Thanks for asking,

Steve D.

>

>

> Okay guys, it sounds to me like you are all correct and here is

> my " story " .

>

> It is all a story and there is no Truth that can be perceived by

the

> mind and it's sensory organs. So, why not make it a happy story by

> questioning the painful stories?

>

> Love, Steve D.

>

>

> ---I have another story...love what's real and let " good " and " bad "

happen

> in your life without trying to Poppins everyone to death. Am I

still

> right?

[Guest guest]

Dear Matt:

It feels like you are to me, however, how could I know? That would

only be a judgement on my part and that counts for nothing.

Thanks for asking,

Steve D.

---Without " judgment " , how would you know the difference between a bowl of

cereal and a steamy pile of dog shit? Believe me...judgment counts...LOL!

---I'm not " right " as far as I can tell, just persistent. Evidence is always

gathering ready to thrash my " rightness " , and I welcome the surprise I'm

sure it will bring when it overcomes my perceptions for the moment and lets

me tumble into something else, a whole new " reality " based on more data and

continuing information. I'll try not to beat it to death with Inquiry, or

trample all over it with philosophical debate. I'll simply move to call it

" real " , and " love what is " ...even me, even you.

[Guest guest]

> Here's another core belief to add to that list: " Sanity doesn't

> suffer, ever. " ;-))

>

> Yep. All of 's babblings are just beliefs. Nothing special.

Andy, Andy, Andy ...

Lets hear what says about all this

*****What I find pathetic is your repeated willingness to abdicate

your own insight and experience to someone else whose insight and

experience may or may not be consistent with yours. Who the fuck

cares what Byron says about all this? She is not the

specialist on YOUR life. YOU are. If you want to live a secondhand,

substitute life, by all means, you're welcome to it. And provide

your own aspirin. Comparison is the refuge of small, fearful minds

and the final abode of sycophants.

Friend talking to says " We're all one " .

: " I don't do theories. As long as you think there's a and

a you, there is not One. It's just a concept. "

*****There is a . And there is a you. And there is One.

Simultaneously. Get it?

And " The Truth has no respect for any concept, no matter how sweet,

drippy, pure it is. It will spit it out for lunch. We worship

concepts. "

*****Yeah. Many do. But it is also possible to not worship concepts

and simply use them as effective tools for getting along in this

apparent world. Like all sages before her, in her comments Byron

vacillates back and forth between the relative world and the

Absolute. Her nondual (Absolute) comments hold true, but they won't

feed an empty belly, they won't cure cancer. Yes, everything IS

illusory, IS *like* a dream, and Byron 's observations (e.g.,

Losing the Moon) are spot on, but at the same time, and until one has

a falling away of the mindbody, and complete and final ending of the

sense of personal doership, one still occupies the illusion of

indepdendent selfhood and the relative world of dualism. Pretending

otherwise is just that: pretending.

But you see the beauty of this whole thing is that I have a story

that when says " Sanity doesn't suffer, ever . . . ever! " it is

not a theory, not a concept, its the truth.

*****No. It's a belief.

For me to say it, it would be a concept or a theory and it would be

truer to say the turn-around i.e. " Insanity does suffer " . This is my

experience and I hear from you that it appears to be yours to. It

appears that we are both insane

*****I'm sure by someone's definition we are. And I'm sure by

someone else's definition we are not. Where does that leave you?

[Guest guest]

---This is fun, sort of like the South Park ninjas. And my powers are

that I get to be right and happy...because I'm not burdened by trying

to reverse engineer myself in an attempt to remove unhappy and

negative things from my life and still assert that I " love what's

real " .

*****Matt. Watch out! You're sounding rather " sane " to me.

[Guest guest]

Okay guys, it sounds to me like you are all correct and here is

my " story " .

It is all a story and there is no Truth that can be perceived by the

mind and it's sensory organs. So, why not make it a happy story by

questioning the painful stories?

*****If you can, sure. But if it is always a happy story, how would

you assess that it is happy? We only know one polarity (happiness,

joy, peace) by also knowing, in memory at least, the other pole.

---I have another story...love what's real and let " good " and " bad "

happen in your life without trying to Poppins everyone to death.

Am I still right?

*****Excellent! " Poppins everyone to death. " Spot on! :-))))

You got his number Matt.

[Guest guest]

Matt can you absolutely know that 's pronouncements are just

beliefs?

Personally speaking I can not, and find it much safer to say " I don't

know " .

*****But even THAT saying is a " knowing, " an assertion of some

certainty (I know that I don't know). You can't get away from it

using conventional language. To do that you either need to resort to

poetry (e.g., ee cummings) or paradox (e.g., sages and mystics and

insane people).

One day when I get clearer I may well find that 's words

are true. Until then I like to believe my story that is indeed

blessed with a clarity I have, but have yet to fully realize.

*****At least you're acknowledging that all you've got to hold onto

are beliefs ( " believe my story " ). Did you think there was anything

else? :-)))))

[Guest guest]

Dear Matt,

Your " dog shit theory " that " judgement counts " does not coincide with

my story that judgement is merely a story made up to take credit or

blame for a prior story of some apparent action.

Love, Steve D.

>

> Dear Matt:

>

> It feels like you are to me, however, how could I know? That would

> only be a judgement on my part and that counts for nothing.

>

> Thanks for asking,

>

> Steve D.

>

> ---Without " judgment " , how would you know the difference between a

bowl of

> cereal and a steamy pile of dog shit? Believe me...judgment

counts...LOL!

>

> ---I'm not " right " as far as I can tell, just persistent. Evidence

is always

> gathering ready to thrash my " rightness " , and I welcome the

surprise I'm

> sure it will bring when it overcomes my perceptions for the moment

and lets

> me tumble into something else, a whole new " reality " based on more

data and

> continuing information. I'll try not to beat it to death with

Inquiry, or

> trample all over it with philosophical debate. I'll simply move to

call it

> " real " , and " love what is " ...even me, even you.

[Guest guest]

Dear Andy,

You said:

" *****If you can, sure. But if it is always a happy story, how would

you assess that it is happy? "

SD: You couldn't. However, I will cross that bridge when or if I

come to it.

You said:

" *****Excellent! " Poppins everyone to death. " Spot on! :-))))

> You got his number Matt. "

SD: Are you and Matt attempting to use the Poppins reference as

a derogatory remark aimed at me?

If so, I find that simply `Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious'!

Love, Steve D.

>

> Okay guys, it sounds to me like you are all correct and here is

> my " story " .

>

> It is all a story and there is no Truth that can be perceived by the

> mind and it's sensory organs. So, why not make it a happy story by

> questioning the painful stories?

>

> *****If you can, sure. But if it is always a happy story, how

would

> you assess that it is happy? We only know one polarity (happiness,

> joy, peace) by also knowing, in memory at least, the other pole.

>

>

> ---I have another story...love what's real and let " good " and " bad "

> happen in your life without trying to Poppins everyone to

death.

> Am I still right?

>

>

> *****Excellent! " Poppins everyone to death. " Spot on! :-))))

> You got his number Matt.

[Guest guest]

Dear Matt,

Your " dog shit theory " that " judgement counts " does not coincide with

my story that judgement is merely a story made up to take credit or

blame for a prior story of some apparent action.

Love, Steve D.

---Remind me to ask you over for dinner sometime. It should be fun....for me

any way. You might need some mints and/or a stomach pump when you leave.

>

> Dear Matt:

>

> It feels like you are to me, however, how could I know? That would

> only be a judgement on my part and that counts for nothing.

>

> Thanks for asking,

>

> Steve D.

>

> ---Without " judgment " , how would you know the difference between a

bowl of

> cereal and a steamy pile of dog shit? Believe me...judgment

counts...LOL!

>

> ---I'm not " right " as far as I can tell, just persistent. Evidence

is always

> gathering ready to thrash my " rightness " , and I welcome the

surprise I'm

> sure it will bring when it overcomes my perceptions for the moment

and lets

> me tumble into something else, a whole new " reality " based on more

data and

> continuing information. I'll try not to beat it to death with

Inquiry, or

> trample all over it with philosophical debate. I'll simply move to

call it

> " real " , and " love what is " ...even me, even you.

[Guest guest]

SD: Are you and Matt attempting to use the Poppins reference as

a derogatory remark aimed at me?

If so, I find that simply `Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious'!

Love, Steve D.

---And you spelled it correctly. This impresses me.

[Guest guest]

Hi Matt:

You said:

" ---Remind me to ask you over for dinner sometime. It should be

fun....for me any way. You might need some mints and/or a stomach

pump when you leave. "

:--) Only if I believed that my " judgements " were true.

By the way, what kind of meals are you serving over there?

> >

> > Dear Matt:

> >

> > It feels like you are to me, however, how could I know? That

would

> > only be a judgement on my part and that counts for nothing.

> >

> > Thanks for asking,

> >

> > Steve D.

> >

> > ---Without " judgment " , how would you know the difference between a

> bowl of

> > cereal and a steamy pile of dog shit? Believe me...judgment

> counts...LOL!

> >

> > ---I'm not " right " as far as I can tell, just persistent. Evidence

> is always

> > gathering ready to thrash my " rightness " , and I welcome the

> surprise I'm

> > sure it will bring when it overcomes my perceptions for the moment

> and lets

> > me tumble into something else, a whole new " reality " based on more

> data and

> > continuing information. I'll try not to beat it to death with

> Inquiry, or

> > trample all over it with philosophical debate. I'll simply move to

> call it

> > " real " , and " love what is " ...even me, even you.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Matt,

You are easily impressed. It is called copy and paste. :--)

>

>

>

>

> SD: Are you and Matt attempting to use the Poppins reference

as

> a derogatory remark aimed at me?

> If so, I find that simply `Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious'!

>

> Love, Steve D.

>

>

> ---And you spelled it correctly. This impresses me.

[Guest guest]

" Matt Lamoreux " wrote:

>

> ---Without " judgment " , how would you know the difference between a

bowl of

> cereal and a steamy pile of dog shit? Believe me...judgment

counts...LOL!

Hi Matt-

Judgement only counts when I am a judge - not when I AM.

I notice that babies who grow up with artistic talent often started

out using their own fecal matter and decorating their surroundings

with it - totally blissed out and happy by their self created artsy

materials and the walls that it now adorns.

Every thing, person, event in your life contains the presence of I

AM. It is YOUR choice to see " shit " , see " cereal " and act

accordingly. As my desire for the illusion fades, the stuff that

passes before me - is merely the stuff that passes before me.

I notice I haven't had a bowl of you know what though...nice that

all the restaurants leave 'it' off the menu...

Blessings - Jan

[Guest guest]

Hi Matt:

You said:

" ---Remind me to ask you over for dinner sometime. It should be

fun....for me any way. You might need some mints and/or a stomach

pump when you leave. "

:--) Only if I believed that my " judgements " were true.

By the way, what kind of meals are you serving over there?

---I just had some chicken and vegetables. So far I'm Ok.

[Guest guest]

Matt,

You are easily impressed. It is called copy and paste. :--)

---Instant expert speller.

[Guest guest]

" Matt Lamoreux " wrote:

>

> ---Without " judgment " , how would you know the difference between a

bowl of

> cereal and a steamy pile of dog shit? Believe me...judgment

counts...LOL!

Hi Matt-

Judgement only counts when I am a judge - not when I AM.

I notice that babies who grow up with artistic talent often started

out using their own fecal matter and decorating their surroundings

with it - totally blissed out and happy by their self created artsy

materials and the walls that it now adorns.

Every thing, person, event in your life contains the presence of I

AM. It is YOUR choice to see " shit " , see " cereal " and act

accordingly. As my desire for the illusion fades, the stuff that

passes before me - is merely the stuff that passes before me.

I notice I haven't had a bowl of you know what though...nice that

all the restaurants leave 'it' off the menu...

Blessings - Jan

---I guess I assume " judgment " concerns being able to designate an ass from

an elbow, or something like that. Not whether or not someone should be burnt

at the stake or given the Nobel Prize. If I simply let everything become " I

AM " , then there is nothing to differentiate things with. In the context of

the tools we use here to discuss anything, we use differentiations even to

brag bout being in the state of " I AM " . To follow the logic of what you say

here I must reduce myself to the state of an amoeba drifting around in a

little puddle of Nothingness with zero awkward insinuations about who I am

made and zero humanity appreciated, and I'm not ready to do that this

afternoon. " I AM " , but " you are " , and " they are " too. Otherwise we can just

stop communicating and just gurgle in the direction of one another.

[Guest guest]

Dear Andy,

You said:

" *****If you can, sure. But if it is always a happy story, how would

you assess that it is happy? "

SD: You couldn't. However, I will cross that bridge when or if I

come to it.

You said:

" *****Excellent! " Poppins everyone to death. " Spot on! :-))))

You got his number Matt. "

SD: Are you and Matt attempting to use the Poppins reference as

a derogatory remark aimed at me?

*****I can't speak for Matt. But for me, no, the comment was not

about you.