Re: Hydroperoxides , UVA, and VOCs

[Guest guest]

,I can't help with the chemistry nor with the fix at this late date but maybe with what happened so as to prevent in the future. A heavy machine oil is often applied to metal surfaces if imported to protect from salt water. It is very viscous and difficult to remove. It eventually "evaporates" from heated surfaces like baseboard heater fins and heat exchangers. Adjacent surfaces less directly heated take much longer.E.g. I just finished with a hypersensitive client and a new A-coil. It was soaked in mineral spirits with non-fin surfaces scrubbed followed by hot water rinse with non-fragranced detergent. Each cycle resulted in less reported reactivity but the tiny spaces between the fins were extremely difficult so we resorted to heat in a location outside the house. This extreme case, even for me, was eventually successful. A more typical scenario is one or two cleaning cycles.I related these details for an appreciation for what has been released into the house of your client and the task required to clean affected surfaces where the pollutant has re deposited. If you think A-coil fins are difficult what will you do with interior surfaces and the contents of the house?Our chemist experts may be able to shed some light on the "white fog" but even I, who thrives on the nearly impossible client, am at a loss on how to reverse or make tolerable this catastrophe. The best I can do is advise all new heating/cooling equipment be checked for surface additives and protectants and definitely not add equipment designed to counter it. Remove it rather than attempt to treat it after the fact.BTW, despite all the fancy and "impressive" vocabulary used in place of "ozone," they missed perhaps the most compelling marketing adjective of all: "quantum." What better way to convince without the ability to verify than to claim "quantum Hydroperoxides" (ozone) acting in two locations simultaneously instead of a boring, old fashioned single dimension. Who knows, maybe it can purify our contaminated karma at the same time!Carl GrimesHealthy Habitats LLC(fm my Blackberry)Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:42:53 -0500To: <iequality >Subject: Hydroperoxides , UVA, and VOCsHello All,Comments from anyone with some chemistry insight or experience with the following is greatly appreciated.A furnace and some " air purifying " equipment is being installed. There is an oil on the heat exchanger in the new furnace that also houses the blower. I don't have the chemical formula(e) of the oil yet. But if anyone is familiar with the types of oil that are applied to a stainless steel heat exchager in a residential furnace after production I'd like to hear. About three feet downstream of the oil-laden heat exchanger is UV lights and about 1 foot downstream of the lights is a Refelctive Electro-Magnetic Energy (REME+ Trademarked). The REME is described as " proactive and sendsionized aggresive advanced oxidizers into the room to destroy the pollutants at the source... " The REME is said to produce Advanced Oxidation Plasma which contains Ionized-Hydro-Peroxides, Super Oxide Ion distribution, Ionized Hydroxide distribution. Fancy talk for H2O2? Ozone is not mentioned. When this system was turned on without the heat on, just the blower running with the UV lights and the REME, it produced what was described as a white fog or mist that was immediately irritating to the eyes and effecting the lungs and GI tract after ~10 days of exposure in the house after the event. Medical professionals noted asthma-like symptoms/signs and diagnosed as Reactive Airways Dysfunction System aka RADS, laryngitis, decrease in oxygen affinity in blood, and the GI tract with a condition called RIDS, instead of Airways I believe it is Intestinial. RIDS described as: the GI clenches up with other symptoms/signs similar to Crohn's Disease. Other symptoms familiar with MCS, including fibromyalgia.The unit was turned off soon after it had produced this mist, which had settled on surfaces in the house. Over the course of several months it has evaporated almost entirely. Very faint chemical smell in the house. I'm imagining this essentially formed a type of smog/aerosol that was less desireable to breathe than the original VOC on the heat exchanger. I'm just getting started on this but wanted to hear if anyone had dealt with or heard of a similar case. Any thoughts on the possible chemicals involved, sampling strategies, health condition, etc. is greatly appreciated.Thank you,Mike McCaffrey

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[Guest guest]

Mike the mineral that they use at the factory to cover the heat exchangers

from the factory is Mineral Oil. It should have been burnt off during the

initial furnace installation. This is a 5 to 10 minute procedure that is part of

the installation process. It will smoke of the residence temporarily but is

harmless after the smoke clears. Breathing it may be another story while the

smoke is present. Heated Mineral oil has been known to be used as an insecticide

used for controlling a wide range of insect pests in the garden. The spray works

by blocking the breathing pores of insects causing suffocation.

As for the REME unit that you have in your HVAC system, it should not be

considered a UV light system. Its design uses a 100nm lamp to create ozone that

interacts with hydroxyl radicals to produce a photo-plasma. This photo-plasma

goes out into the space as an ionization field that coagulate large particulate

and makes it fall out of the air onto surfaces. Its not real efficient below

2.5ppm to .5 ppm. The other this this technology produces is hydrogen peroxide

that the air stream carries in the airstream into the space that falls on

surfaces and they claim a biologic reduction. The majority of the test data that

I have found over the years on this technology is from Kansas State and that

data only shows a surface reduction over a period of time. They show no test

data to back up the claims of an air quality product in real word situations.

And show no test data to back up claims of no ozone production. I do not speak

against REME or intend to brand bash, but against the technology as a whole

their are a lot of questions yet answered. There are many other companies

producing this technology and all are using the same data to back their claims.

You will not find any fresh third party data on the Internet.

A little about my back ground. I have been in the Commercial HVAC business for

over 20 years. In the last 7 years I have help develop and test a new photo

catalyst system for commercial use that Trane is now carrying nationally that is

called TCACS or Genesis Air which may be installed at the factory or retrofitted

in the field.

Genesis Air Inc

>

>

> Hello All,

>

> Comments from anyone with some chemistry insight or experience with the

following is greatly appreciated.

>

> A furnace and some " air purifying " equipment is being installed. There is an

oil on the heat exchanger in the new furnace that also houses the blower. I

don't have the chemical formula(e) of the oil yet. But if anyone is familiar

with the types of oil that are applied to a stainless steel heat exchager in a

residential furnace after production I'd like to hear. About three feet

downstream of the oil-laden heat exchanger is UV lights and about 1 foot

downstream of the lights is a Refelctive Electro-Magnetic Energy (REME+

Trademarked). The REME is described as " proactive and sendsionized aggresive

advanced oxidizers into the room to destroy the pollutants at the source... "

The REME is said to produce Advanced Oxidation Plasma which contains

Ionized-Hydro-Peroxides, Super Oxide Ion distribution, Ionized Hydroxide

distribution. Fancy talk for H2O2? Ozone is not mentioned.

>

> When this system was turned on without the heat on, just the blower running

with the UV lights and the REME, it produced what was described as a white fog

or mist that was immediately irritating to the eyes and effecting the lungs and

GI tract after ~10 days of exposure in the house after the event. Medical

professionals noted asthma-like symptoms/signs and diagnosed as Reactive Airways

Dysfunction System aka RADS, laryngitis, decrease in oxygen affinity in blood,

and the GI tract with a condition called RIDS, instead of Airways I believe it

is Intestinial. RIDS described as: the GI clenches up with other symptoms/signs

similar to Crohn's Disease. Other symptoms familiar with MCS, including

fibromyalgia.

>

> The unit was turned off soon after it had produced this mist, which had

settled on surfaces in the house. Over the course of several months it has

evaporated almost entirely. Very faint chemical smell in the house. I'm

imagining this essentially formed a type of smog/aerosol that was less

desireable to breathe than the original VOC on the heat exchanger. I'm just

getting started on this but wanted to hear if anyone had dealt with or heard of

a similar case.

>

> Any thoughts on the possible chemicals involved, sampling strategies, health

condition, etc. is greatly appreciated.

>

> Thank you,

>

> Mike McCaffrey

>

>

>

>

> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it, contain

> information that may be confidential and privileged. The

> message is intended for a specific individual and purpose, and

> its unintended use is prohibited by law. If you are not the

> intended recipient you may not disseminate, distribute or copy

> this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if

> you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail

> from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are

> notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any

> action in reliance on the contents of this information is

> strictly prohibited.

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> to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company

> cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising

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>

[Guest guest]

Mike,I see this gentleman is in good hands now. This was one of those calls I just could not wrap my head around for numerous reasons. Mike if this is what I think it is you did a great job untangling the story of what occurred as told by someone that is working through a really tough time. Dealing with the very sensitive and very ill people is a tough job that needs to be referred to the right people or team of people. I am glad you are helping this guy.Joe Subject: Hydroperoxides , UVA, and VOCsTo:

iequality Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 5:42 PM

Hello All,

Comments from anyone with some chemistry insight or experience with the following is greatly appreciated.

A furnace and some "air purifying" equipment is being installed. There is an oil on the heat exchanger in the new furnace that also houses the blower. I don't have the chemical formula(e) of the oil yet. But if anyone is familiar with the types of oil that are applied to a stainless steel heat exchager in a residential furnace after production I'd like to hear. About three feet downstream of the oil-laden heat exchanger is UV lights and about 1 foot downstream of the lights is a Refelctive Electro-Magnetic Energy (REME+ Trademarked) . The REME is described as "proactive and sendsionized aggresive advanced oxidizers into the room to destroy the pollutants at the source..." The REME is said to produce Advanced Oxidation Plasma which contains Ionized-Hydro- Peroxides, Super Oxide Ion distribution, Ionized Hydroxide distribution. Fancy talk for H2O2? Ozone is not

mentioned.

When this system was turned on without the heat on, just the blower running with the UV lights and the REME, it produced what was described as a white fog or mist that was immediately irritating to the eyes and effecting the lungs and GI tract after ~10 days of exposure in the house after the event. Medical professionals noted asthma-like symptoms/signs and diagnosed as Reactive Airways Dysfunction System aka RADS, laryngitis, decrease in oxygen affinity in blood, and the GI tract with a condition called RIDS, instead of Airways I believe it is Intestinial. RIDS described as: the GI clenches up with other symptoms/signs similar to Crohn's Disease. Other symptoms familiar with MCS, including fibromyalgia.

The unit was turned off soon after it had produced this mist, which had settled on surfaces in the house. Over the course of several months it has evaporated almost entirely. Very faint chemical smell in the house. I'm imagining this essentially formed a type of smog/aerosol that was less desireable to breathe than the original VOC on the heat exchanger. I'm just getting started on this but wanted to hear if anyone had dealt with or heard of a similar case.

Any thoughts on the possible chemicals involved, sampling strategies, health condition, etc. is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Mike McCaffrey

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it, contain information that may be confidential and privileged. The message is intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its unintended use is prohibited by law. If you are not the intended recipient you may not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.

[Guest guest]

Jim,

Your last statements gets us back to the situation of the original post: Despite what the white fog is, despite what caused it, despite our analysis of it by guess or by lab, despite the lack of a definitive medical diagnosis or defensible legal position, the occupant cannot be in their own home. They were fine before and are not now.

If I were to accept the call for help from this person, how do I return the home to a habitable condition? If I don't accept their call for help, who would I refer them to? A specialist, a generalist, a PhD, a statistician, a lawyer, another chemically intolerant person, or an arsonist?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Mike

My training as an engineering scientist (a scientist trained in an engineering faculty, to help move new science into practice) was not specific to particulars of chemistry but was very helpful in pounding in certain principles: for reactions to go to completion you need sufficient concentrations for a long-enough time. Most devices do not provide sufficient concentrations of chemicals, for long enough, to have the processes go to the final end product so you only get intermediate chemicals. This is almost always true of oxidization processes.

It is almost always true that ozonation and other processes in houses results not in CO2 and water vapour, if you are attacking hydrocarbons, but in really nasty intermediates that are usually much more toxic than the original chemicals being oxidized. Hydrogen peroxide may also not be at concentrations needed for full destruction of the offending agent.

It sounds as though the fog was a partly-oxidized hydrocarbon. It would be both highly-reactive and will likely be very hard to remove from surfaces because it is not just on them but now chemically-attached to and/or part of the surfaces. You have a true aww S**T! there.

Just my two cents worth; others have contributed well. Read the lines and also between the lines.

Jim H. White System Science Consulting

Hydroperoxides , UVA, and VOCs

Hello All,

Comments from anyone with some chemistry insight or experience with the following is greatly appreciated.

A furnace and some " air purifying " equipment is being installed. There is an oil on the heat exchanger in the new furnace that also houses the blower. I don't have the chemical formula(e) of the oil yet. But if anyone is familiar with the types of oil that are applied to a stainless steel heat exchager in a residential furnace after production I'd like to hear. About three feet downstream of the oil-laden heat exchanger is UV lights and about 1 foot downstream of the lights is a Refelctive Electro-Magnetic Energy (REME+ Trademarked). The REME is described as " proactive and sendsionized aggresive advanced oxidizers into the room to destroy the pollutants at the source... " The REME is said to produce Advanced Oxidation Plasma which contains Ionized-Hydro-Peroxides, Super Oxide Ion distribution, Ionized Hydroxide distribution. Fancy talk for H2O2? Ozone is not mentioned.

When this system was turned on without the heat on, just the blower running with the UV lights and the REME, it produced what was described as a white fog or mist that was immediately irritating to the eyes and effecting the lungs and GI tract after ~10 days of exposure in the house after the event. Medical professionals noted asthma-like symptoms/signs and diagnosed as Reactive Airways Dysfunction System aka RADS, laryngitis, decrease in oxygen affinity in blood, and the GI tract with a condition called RIDS, instead of Airways I believe it is Intestinial. RIDS described as: the GI clenches up with other symptoms/signs similar to Crohn's Disease. Other symptoms familiar with MCS, including fibromyalgia.

The unit was turned off soon after it had produced this mist, which had settled on surfaces in the house. Over the course of several months it has evaporated almost entirely. Very faint chemical smell in the house. I'm imagining this essentially formed a type of smog/aerosol that was less desireable to breathe than the original VOC on the heat exchanger. I'm just getting started on this but wanted to hear if anyone had dealt with or heard of a similar case.

Any thoughts on the possible chemicals involved, sampling strategies, health condition, etc. is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Mike McCaffrey

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[Guest guest]

Carl

Great questions!

My answer is that it may be that they can never return to that home and that virtually everything that they have removed from the house may be bring part of the problem with them. That is why I said is sounded like an aww S***!

It is not often that a house cannot be made habitable for sensitized occupants but this may well be one of those rare instances.

Some oxidized oils make me ill for days after a few hours of exposure. Imagine what they could do to sensitized occupants who try to live in the house full time.

Jim

Hydroperoxides , UVA, and VOCs

Hello All,

Comments from anyone with some chemistry insight or experience with the following is greatly appreciated.

A furnace and some "air purifying" equipment is being installed. There is an oil on the heat exchanger in the new furnace that also houses the blower. I don't have the chemical formula(e) of the oil yet. But if anyone is familiar with the types of oil that are applied to a stainless steel heat exchager in a residential furnace after production I'd like to hear. About three feet downstream of the oil-laden heat exchanger is UV lights and about 1 foot downstream of the lights is a Refelctive Electro-Magnetic Energy (REME+ Trademarked). The REME is described as "proactive and sendsionized aggresive advanced oxidizers into the room to destroy the pollutants at the source..." The REME is said to produce Advanced Oxidation Plasma which contains Ionized-Hydro-Peroxides, Super Oxide Ion distribution, Ionized Hydroxide distribution. Fancy talk for H2O2? Ozone is not mentioned.

When this system was turned on without the heat on, just the blower running with the UV lights and the REME, it produced what was described as a white fog or mist that was immediately irritating to the eyes and effecting the lungs and GI tract after ~10 days of exposure in the house after the event. Medical professionals noted asthma-like symptoms/signs and diagnosed as Reactive Airways Dysfunction System aka RADS, laryngitis, decrease in oxygen affinity in blood, and the GI tract with a condition called RIDS, instead of Airways I believe it is Intestinial. RIDS described as: the GI clenches up with other symptoms/signs similar to Crohn's Disease. Other symptoms familiar with MCS, including fibromyalgia.

The unit was turned off soon after it had produced this mist, which had settled on surfaces in the house. Over the course of several months it has evaporated almost entirely. Very faint chemical smell in the house. I'm imagining this essentially formed a type of smog/aerosol that was less desireable to breathe than the original VOC on the heat exchanger. I'm just getting started on this but wanted to hear if anyone had dealt with or heard of a similar case. Any thoughts on the possible chemicals involved, sampling strategies, health condition, etc. is greatly appreciated. Thank you,

Mike McCaffrey

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it, contain information that may be confidential and privileged. The message is intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its unintended use is prohibited by law. If you are not the intended recipient you may not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.

[Guest guest]

The REME generates oxidizers. That is the "chemical smell" that continues to be present. The homeowner is now used to the ozone in the air, and therefore is less sensitive to it. California Air Resources Board, the EPA, and ASHRAE are all studying the effects of "friendly oxidizers", and their place in occupied spaces.

Keep up the good work everyone to study these types of situations.

Ron

Subject: Re: Hydroperoxides , UVA, and VOCsTo: iequality Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 2:59 PM

Carl

Great questions!

My answer is that it may be that they can never return to that home and that virtually everything that they have removed from the house may be bring part of the problem with them. That is why I said is sounded like an aww S***!

It is not often that a house cannot be made habitable for sensitized occupants but this may well be one of those rare instances.

Some oxidized oils make me ill for days after a few hours of exposure. Imagine what they could do to sensitized occupants who try to live in the house full time.

Jim

Hydroperoxides , UVA, and VOCs

Hello All,

Comments from anyone with some chemistry insight or experience with the following is greatly appreciated.

A furnace and some "air purifying" equipment is being installed. There is an oil on the heat exchanger in the new furnace that also houses the blower. I don't have the chemical formula(e) of the oil yet. But if anyone is familiar with the types of oil that are applied to a stainless steel heat exchager in a residential furnace after production I'd like to hear. About three feet downstream of the oil-laden heat exchanger is UV lights and about 1 foot downstream of the lights is a Refelctive Electro-Magnetic Energy (REME+ Trademarked) . The REME is described as "proactive and sendsionized aggresive advanced oxidizers into the room to destroy the pollutants at the source..." The REME is said to produce Advanced Oxidation Plasma which contains Ionized-Hydro- Peroxides, Super Oxide Ion distribution, Ionized Hydroxide distribution. Fancy

talk for H2O2? Ozone is not mentioned.

When this system was turned on without the heat on, just the blower running with the UV lights and the REME, it produced what was described as a white fog or mist that was immediately irritating to the eyes and effecting the lungs and GI tract after ~10 days of exposure in the house after the event. Medical professionals noted asthma-like symptoms/signs and diagnosed as Reactive Airways Dysfunction System aka RADS, laryngitis, decrease in oxygen affinity in blood, and the GI tract with a condition called RIDS, instead of Airways I believe it is Intestinial. RIDS described as: the GI clenches up with other symptoms/signs similar to Crohn's Disease. Other symptoms familiar with MCS, including fibromyalgia.

The unit was turned off soon after it had produced this mist, which had settled on surfaces in the house. Over the course of several months it has evaporated almost entirely. Very faint chemical smell in the house. I'm imagining this essentially formed a type of smog/aerosol that was less desireable to breathe than the original VOC on the heat exchanger. I'm just getting started on this but wanted to hear if anyone had dealt with or heard of a similar case. Any thoughts on the possible chemicals involved, sampling strategies, health condition, etc. is greatly appreciated. Thank you, Mike McCaffrey This e-mail and any files transmitted with it, contain information that may be confidential and privileged. The message is intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its unintended use is prohibited by law. If you are not the intended recipient you may not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.Warning: Although the company

has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.

[Guest guest]

Regarding the statement: “Thehomeowner is now used to the ozone in the air, and therefore is less sensitiveto it.†For more than a 100 years, scientists and health professionalshave been warning about the hazards associated with breathing in ozone. Peoplemay become desensitized to the odor (nasal fatigue), but they do notbecome less sensitive to the effects. As you probably know, CARB, EPA andothers are very clear in their warnings about devices that generate ozone –they should not be used in an occupied space. One of the key problems with anoxidizing agent in the air is getting it to react only with the “bad†thingsand not people’s lungs and everything else. Also, as this situation hasillustrated, the by-products of a chemical reaction may be just as bad or worsethan the original “contaminantâ€. Curtis Redington, RS, HHSEnvironmental Quality SpecialistAir Quality & HazMat ResponseCity of Wichita Office of Environmental Health From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of ron saundersSent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:52 PMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Hydroperoxides , UVA, and VOCs The REME generates oxidizers. That is the " chemical smell " that continues to be present. The homeowneris now used to the ozone in the air, and therefore is less sensitive toit. California Air Resources Board, the EPA, and ASHRAE are allstudying the effects of " friendly oxidizers " , and their place inoccupied spaces. Keep up the good work everyone to study these types ofsituations. RonSubject: Re: Hydroperoxides , UVA, and VOCsTo: iequality Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 2:59 PM CarlGreatquestions! Myanswer is that it may be that they can never return to that home and thatvirtually everything that they have removed from the house may be bring partof the problem with them. That is why I said is sounded like an aww S***! Itis not often that a house cannot be made habitable for sensitized occupantsbut this may well be one of those rare instances. Someoxidized oils make me ill for days after a few hours of exposure. Imaginewhat they could do to sensitized occupants who try to live in the house fulltime. Jim Hydroperoxides , UVA, and VOCs Hello All,Commentsfrom anyone with some chemistry insight or experience with the following isgreatly appreciated. A furnaceand some " air purifying " equipment is being installed. Thereis an oil on the heat exchanger in the new furnace that also houses theblower. I don't have the chemical formula(e) of the oil yet. Butif anyone is familiar with the types of oil that are applied to a stainlesssteel heat exchager in a residential furnace after production I'd like tohear. About three feet downstream of the oil-laden heat exchanger is UVlights and about 1 foot downstream of the lights is a Refelctive Electro-MagneticEnergy (REME+ Trademarked) . The REME is described as " proactiveand sendsionized aggresive advanced oxidizers into the room to destroy thepollutants at the source... " The REME is said to produce AdvancedOxidation Plasma which contains Ionized-Hydro- Peroxides, Super Oxide Iondistribution, Ionized Hydroxide distribution. Fancy talk forH2O2? Ozone is not mentioned. When thissystem was turned on without the heat on, just the blower running withthe UV lights and the REME, it produced what was described as a white fog ormist that was immediately irritating to the eyes and effecting the lungs andGI tract after ~10 days of exposure in the house after the event. Medical professionals noted asthma-like symptoms/signs and diagnosed asReactive Airways Dysfunction System aka RADS, laryngitis, decrease in oxygenaffinity in blood, and the GI tract with a condition called RIDS, instead ofAirways I believe it is Intestinial. RIDS described as: the GI clenchesup with other symptoms/signs similar to Crohn's Disease. Other symptomsfamiliar with MCS, including fibromyalgia. The unitwas turned off soon after it had produced this mist, which had settled onsurfaces in the house. Over the course of several months it hasevaporated almost entirely. Very faint chemical smell in thehouse. I'm imagining this essentially formed a type of smog/aerosolthat was less desireable to breathe than the original VOC on the heatexchanger. I'm just getting started on this but wanted tohear if anyone had dealt with or heard of a similar case. Any thoughts on the possible chemicals involved, sampling strategies, healthcondition, etc. is greatly appreciated. Thank you,MikeMcCaffrey This e-mail and any files transmitted with it, contain information that may be confidential and privileged. The message is intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its unintended use is prohibited by law. If you are not the intended recipient you may not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.

[Guest guest]

I agree 100%. Less sensitive described a persons ability to sense the ozone levels. Unfortunately, as agreed with you, the oxidizers destroy mucous membranes in your nose and mouth which loses your ability to sense the oxidizers, even though they are harming you and affecting the cells in your lungs. Thanks for the added input Curtis.

From: Jim H. White SSC <systemscxplornet (DOT) com>Subject: Re: Hydroperoxides , UVA, and VOCsTo: iequality@yahoogrou ps.comDate: Monday, March 15, 2010, 2:59 PM

Carl

Great questions!

My answer is that it may be that they can never return to that home and that virtually everything that they have removed from the house may be bring part of the problem with them. That is why I said is sounded like an aww S***!

It is not often that a house cannot be made habitable for sensitized occupants but this may well be one of those rare instances.

Some oxidized oils make me ill for days after a few hours of exposure. Imagine what they could do to sensitized occupants who try to live in the house full time.

Jim

Hydroperoxides , UVA, and VOCs

Hello All,

Comments from anyone with some chemistry insight or experience with the following is greatly appreciated.

A furnace and some "air purifying" equipment is being installed. There is an oil on the heat exchanger in the new furnace that also houses the blower. I don't have the chemical formula(e) of the oil yet. But if anyone is familiar with the types of oil that are applied to a stainless steel heat exchager in a residential furnace after production I'd like to hear. About three feet downstream of the oil-laden heat exchanger is UV lights and about 1 foot downstream of the lights is a Refelctive Electro-Magnetic Energy (REME+ Trademarked) . The REME is described as "proactive and sendsionized aggresive advanced oxidizers into the room to destroy the pollutants at the source..." The REME is said to produce Advanced Oxidation Plasma which contains Ionized-Hydro- Peroxides, Super Oxide Ion distribution, Ionized Hydroxide distribution. Fancy talk for H2O2? Ozone is not

mentioned.

When this system was turned on without the heat on, just the blower running with the UV lights and the REME, it produced what was described as a white fog or mist that was immediately irritating to the eyes and effecting the lungs and GI tract after ~10 days of exposure in the house after the event. Medical professionals noted asthma-like symptoms/signs and diagnosed as Reactive Airways Dysfunction System aka RADS, laryngitis, decrease in oxygen affinity in blood, and the GI tract with a condition called RIDS, instead of Airways I believe it is Intestinial. RIDS described as: the GI clenches up with other symptoms/signs similar to Crohn's Disease. Other symptoms familiar with MCS, including fibromyalgia.

The unit was turned off soon after it had produced this mist, which had settled on surfaces in the house. Over the course of several months it has evaporated almost entirely. Very faint chemical smell in the house. I'm imagining this essentially formed a type of smog/aerosol that was less desireable to breathe than the original VOC on the heat exchanger. I'm just getting started on this but wanted to hear if anyone had dealt with or heard of a similar case. Any thoughts on the possible chemicals involved, sampling strategies, health condition, etc. is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Mike McCaffrey

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