Re: Odds of mold toxicity symptoms being reversible ROBERT

[Guest guest]

Ok well let me chime in here on your comments with the proof you are

wanting. First Live is exactly rite when saying this is probably why you

continue to be sick but let me just give you some proof and I will send you the

test results if my words are not proof enough.

I left my contaminated home naked. I took nothing but the possessions that

could so called be cleaned were put in storage. There were a few very important

tools I owned that were cleaned according to every instruction that could be

found. They were then sealed and kept in storage. One year later I had these

tools tested. They came back positive with stachy and aspergillus. Again these

were non porous items. Now let me here from you again about your doubt that

taking your belongings with you are not a problem. I will be honest in saying I

am a bit insulted by your doubts. Has there not been enough information here to

make you think twice about doing something like that. There are enough people we

need to prove what is happening to us is real without one of us doubting it

himself.

I am not trying to be rude, I know even for us it is hard to understand and/or

believe what is happening especially in the beginning but it does not take long

to know one little slip up and it is all in vein, trust me i know. You might

want to seriously re evaluate your thought process if you truly want to get even

a little better. I mean that in the nicest way I can say it.

Chris...

ssr3351@... wrote:

As far as I know mycotoxins can last forever and they alone are what make

animals and humans sick. Thousands will fit on just the tip of a pin head!!!

When mold is disturbed or removed incorrectly those mycotoxins just float all

through a building and cling to everything. That's why they tell you to leave

everything behind. Only non porous things can be cleaned. I think some

people are more sensitive than others and can get a hit very easily. May take

more for others.

Sue

,

I am just calling into question the whole practice, not saying your

wrong. We are comparing apples and apples. I am challenging the theory

of residue mycotoxins. I don't believe you can carry enough on your

belongings to be of major concern. My thinking is the emphasis should

be on ACTIVE mold colonies. I know how sensitive we are, it's

crippled me for 10 years now. But I have always had an ACTIVE mold

colony to implicate for this and never have I observed ONLY items

contaminated with mycotoxins causing me illness. My theory is that

they dissipate and break down like most other toxins rather rapidly

and without a constant source of new ones it's a non issue. I would

think their would be no hope for us otherwise. They certainly would be

everywhere and their would be no avoiding them if they persisted for

years or even months. I know some people think I'm stupid. But if

mycotoxins are as virulent and last as long as people suggest here

that would be quit extraordinary. Anytime I hear a claim that defy's

common sense or is as extraordinary as this I just want a little more

proof. Not telling people to base their actions on my theory and if

they do, they do it at their own risk.

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:58:36 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>Ok well let me chime in here on your comments with the proof you are

wanting. First Live is exactly rite when saying this is probably why you

continue to be sick but let me just give you some proof and I will send you the

test results if my words are not proof enough.

I continue to be sick because of exposure to LIVING mold colonies. I

am currently working on a solution to this instead of worrying about

contaminated items I am focusing on a all metal structure like

has in which to live so I can escape LIVING mold colonies, than and

only than maybe, I can rehabilitate myself.

I am not using hepa filters, I am not taking vitamins, I am not taking

msm or whatever that cholesterol stuff is in which I could get a free

prescription from my dad if I thought it would do any good. I am

instead focusing on the one thing I KNOW beyond any doubt to be

causing me to be sick.

If this fails because I brought contaminated items with me, I will

waste no time posting these findings here at this forum.

I will consider success if I can return into the workforce and handle

every day to day chores and use my brain the way I did before I got

sick. Even if I still react mildly this will be as stated " a

miracle " for me.

> One year later I had these tools tested. They came back positive with stachy

and aspergillus. Again these were non porous items. Now let me here from you

again about your doubt that taking your belongings with you are not a problem. I

will be honest in saying I am a bit insulted by your doubts. Has there not been

enough information here to make you think twice about doing something like that.

There are enough people we need to prove what is happening to us is real without

one of us doubting it himself.

Your " proof " only states that they found mold spores on your

belongings. When someone can do the same thing with mycotoxins

supposedly laying dormant on your cleaned stored items a year later

and further that they can measure profound human reactivity to them,

and this is all verified by a group of peers. I will concede that you

have " proof " and I am wrong. Again, extraordinary claims should be

backed up with extraordinary " proof " . Before they are taken as fact.

Until than one should use prudence and common sense.

My thinking currently about my belongings is that if anything at all,

they PALE in comparison to the LIVING mold colonies I am exposed to

and it would be a waste of time and energy and MONEY worrying about

them at this point.

I am not purposely trying to be disrespectful or condescending

to anyone here I just want the truth. It's very difficult and time

consuming to compose an email and than read it from the perspective of

others and how I come across. Especially when I am as opinionated as

I am. I am sorry if I offended you.

> I am not trying to be rude, I know even for us it is hard to understand

and/or believe what is happening especially in the beginning but it does not

take long to know one little slip up and it is all in vein, trust me i know. You

might want to seriously re evaluate your thought process if you truly want to

get even a little better. I mean that in the nicest way I can say it.

> Chris...

[Guest guest]

--- In , Christ <antares41_41@...>

> I continue to be sick because of exposure to LIVING mold colonies. I

> am currently working on a solution to this instead of worrying about

> contaminated items I am focusing on a all metal structure like

> has in which to live so I can escape LIVING mold colonies, than and

> only than maybe, I can rehabilitate myself.

Contaminated items can and will transfer contamination to a new and

clean place, and even establish new living mold colonies (albeit

non-visible if there's limited amount of moisture). Elevated air

moisture or condensation is usually sufficient for this to happen.

It appears that some people will not react to this level of

contamination (they react only to visible mold and high concentrations

of mycotoxins), but there are some of us who do react even to this

level of contamination.

> Your " proof " only states that they found mold spores on your

> belongings. When someone can do the same thing with mycotoxins

> supposedly laying dormant on your cleaned stored items a year later

> and further that they can measure profound human reactivity to them,

> and this is all verified by a group of peers. I will concede that you

> have " proof " and I am wrong. Again, extraordinary claims should be

> backed up with extraordinary " proof " . Before they are taken as fact.

> Until than one should use prudence and common sense.

There is nothing extraordinary in what he said. Read this peer

reviewed scientific document:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=4847462

----------

Titre du document / Document title

Measurement of the stability of T-2 toxin in aqueous solution

Auteur(s) / Author(s)

DUFFY M. J. ; REID R. S. ;

Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)

Univ. Saskatchewan, coll. graduate studies res., toxicology group,

Saskatchewan SK S7N 0W0, CANADA

Résumé / Abstract

Studies were undertaken to determine unambiguously the stability of

T-2 toxin in deuterated phosphate-buffered saline solutions in the pD

range 5-12. No decomposition was observed after 1 year in samples

between pD 5.0 and 6.7; above pD 6.7, degradation proceeded via

sequential cleavage of the ester side chains to form the series HT-2

toxin to T-2 triol to T-2 tetraol. A transient species believed to be

an internal transesterification product of T-2 triol was also

detected. Proton NMR was found to be a finely discriminatory technique

for the observation and characterization of these species. It was

possible for the first time to observe «in real time» the mixture of

species, to model the multistage kinetics involved in their

interconversion, and to obtain a set of rate constants

Revue / Journal Title

Chemical research in toxicology (Chem. res. toxicol.) ISSN 0893-228X

Source / Source

1993, vol. 6, no4, pp. 524-529 (16 ref.)

Langue / Language

Anglais

Editeur / Publisher

American Chemical Society, Washington, DC, ETATS-UNIS (1988) (Revue)

Mots-clés anglais / English Keywords

Mycotoxin ; Trichothecene ; Chemical stability ; Aqueous medium ;

Degradation ;

Mots-clés français / French Keywords

Toxine T2 ; Mycotoxine ; Trichothéc & #232;ne ; Stabilité chimique ; Milieu

aqueux ; Dégradation ;

002b03j ;

Mots-clés espagnols / Spanish Keywords

Micotoxina ; Tricoteceno ; Estabilidad química ; Medio acuoso ;

Degradación ;

Localisation / Location

INIST-CNRS, Cote INIST : 21553, 35400003526952.0210

Copyright 2006 INIST-CNRS. All rights reserved

------------------

And this one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus & db=pubmed & cmd=R\

etrieve & dopt=abstractplus & list_uids=11665740

-------------------

Effect of time, temperature and solvent on the stability of T-2 toxin,

HT-2 toxin, deoxynivalenol and nivalenol calibrants.Widestrand J,

Pettersson H.

Department of Animal Nutrition and Management, Swedish University of

Agricultural Sciences, Uppsala. Johan.Widestrand@...

The influence of solvent, storage time and temperature on the

stability of the trichothecene mycotoxins T-2 toxin (T-2), HT-2 toxin

(HT-2), deoxynivalenol (DON) and nivalenol (NIV) was investigated.

Toxins in acetonitrile, ethyl acetate or as thin film were stored in

sealed glass ampoules at -18, 4, 25 and 40 degrees C for up to 24

months. Samples were analysed by HPLC with UV detection. The results

should that acetonitrile was the preferred solvent and no significant

(t0.95-test) decomposition occurred for any of the four trichothecenes

when stored for 24 months at 25 degrees C or 3 months at 40 degrees C.

T-2 and HT-2 in ethyl acetate or as thin film were also stable under

the same conditions. DON and NIV in ethyl acetate or as thin film were

stable for up to 24 months at -18 degrees C, but a significant

decomposition of DON and NIV in ethyl acetate was observed for both

toxins after 24 months of storage at 4 degrees C and after 12 months

at 25 degrees C. When stored as thin film, a significant trend of

decomposition of DON occurred after 24 months of storage at 4 degrees

C and after 6 months of storage at 25 degrees C. A significant

decrease of NIV stored as thin filmn was observed after 9 months at 25

degrees C. In conclusion, acetonitrile was the most suitable solvent

for long-term storage of T-2, HT-2, DON and NIV.

PMID: 11665740 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

------------------------

So, T-2 toxin and HT-2 were pretty stable under various temperatures

and in different solvents for at least 24 months - that's two years.

The extreme stability of trichothecene mycotoxins is a well

established scientific fact.

I have a hypothesis - and this is just my conjecture - that these

stable mycotoxins serve as a very good " protective shield " for the

species of molds that originally produced them. Let's take an object

that is contaminated with, say, T-2 toxin which was produced by

Fusarium mold. The spores of the original Fusarium that are still

present on that object, or the spores of Fusarium that drop on that

object from the " new " place, will have the competitive egde over the

other, commoner molds because of this toxin, and will be able to

overcome other molds. A little condensation or higher humidity will do

the job, and you'll have the problem again.

In nature, things are probably much harder for these toxic molds due

to a lot of competition from other molds, bacteria etc., and despite

their mycotoxins they don't dominate over everything. In closed spaces

it's another story because they have much less competition.

So, think twice before you take your contaminated objects to a clean

place.

[Guest guest]

My argument is if you put humans in

> contact with common contaminated household items in an otherwise

clean

> environment. They WILL NOT react to them. It's just my hunch, I can

be

> persuaded with reputable science that points to either way. But

still

> have not seen any. I could also be persuaded by carefully conducted

> test's on myself which I intend to do.

ROBERT

no.1 its depends on how contaminated they are.

no. 2 on your level of sensativity.load on your system on any given

day.

no.3 amounts of fresh air mixture involved.

no.4 weather your sensative to one type or many types or have mcs.

everyone well have a different toleration level and each persons

toleration level will be different everyday depending on thier load

or how well they fell that day.with some that are extremely sensative

to mycotoxins it won't matter how good they fell, one wiff and down

they go. seams to me that their exposure and how much of the toxin

that is still in their system is going to also play a role in how

they react. other irratants breathed into your system during that day

is going to affect you ability to tolerate it even less. so how is

your test going to prove anything? if you can tolerate your belonging

than good for you. I can garentee that if I can get wiped out while

out side(fresh air mixture)from any one of the things I'm sensative

to, that putting belongings that are infested with mycotoxins in a

clean home aren't going to make a bit of difference to me. what would

even be the difference of walking into a moldy home or walking into a

clean home with mold infested belongings???

now maybe if your just sensative to one kind of mold or mycotoxin and

don't have mcs, you could possibly be around other types and it

wouldn't bother you, I have no clue about that becauses I' not going

to go around testing the theory to find out because another hard hit

could be my last. now if you are well enough to experment than

whatever, but your results will not be the same as the next persons

may be so i think it would be a useless experment. now haveing said

that, be careful because if you do this you may at first think you

are haveing no reaction and proved your point, but your may get a

rude wake up call a few years down the road because if you think that

low exposures can't hurt you your wrong.

> >It appears that some people will not react to this level of

> >contamination (they react only to visible mold and high

concentrations

> >of mycotoxins), but there are some of us who do react even to this

> >level of contamination.

> I consider myself amongst the highest of reactors. So I should

> definitely be inside this group but I am not.

> Further, this is anecdotal I admit but if you read my previous

> post's you know I brought more than enough items to my brothers

house

> to contaminate it. 2 1/2 years later I stayed there for 5 days and

> felt nothing but relief from where I was staying in my mold ridden

> trailer. Not saying I was cured but it is probably the best

> environment I have been in baring being outdoors.

> Conversely a year and a half prior to that I was sick the whole

time I

> was there because I brought this monitor

> http://home.tampabay.rr.com/rchrist9/Moldy%20Monitor.shtml

> with me and sat in front of it more than a few hours a day.

> I was profoundly ill. The difference is that this monitor had albeit

> small, actual LIVING mold colonies on it.

> >There is nothing extraordinary in what he said. Read this peer

> >reviewed scientific document:

> Something that defy's common sense DOES qualify as extraordinary

> regardless of weather it's real or not. The fact that the earth is

4

> billion years old is extraordinary, the theory that the entire

> universe was once encompassed an area thousands of times smaller

than

> the head of a pin is incredibly extraordinary. but they have much

> better evidence to back this up than what you have presented to me

> here to further your argument:

> http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=4847462

>

>

> I will first preface this with I have no question of the legitimacy

of

> the test's at pub med.

>

> But you have NOT shown any evidence of profound human reactivity to

> common household items contaminated under normal circumstances one

> would expect in a house with severe mold issues.

>

> You haven't shown the longevity of mycotoxins on real world

belongings

> deposited by natural conditions, from a home with severe mold

issues.

>

> Instead you have shown what their longevity is in sealed ampoules

and

> in special solutions. Also there is no information on how these

toxins

> were obtained. Are they synthetic or are they actual samples taken

> from specific species of mold?

>

>

> >

> >I have a hypothesis - and this is just my conjecture - that these

> >stable mycotoxins serve as a very good " protective shield " for the

> >species of molds that originally produced them. Let's take an

object

> >that is contaminated with, say, T-2 toxin which was produced by

> >Fusarium mold. The spores of the original Fusarium that are still

> >present on that object, or the spores of Fusarium that drop on that

> >object from the " new " place, will have the competitive egde over

the

> >other, commoner molds because of this toxin, and will be able to

> >overcome other molds. A little condensation or higher humidity

will do

> >the job, and you'll have the problem again.

>

> I pretty much always took this as a given. Sounds logical to me.

>

> >So, think twice before you take your contaminated objects to a

clean

> >place.

> I plan on doing just this under controlled conditions, specifically

> because I want to know the facts. If I find what you and others

have

> been saying all along here is right I will be the first to come

back

> to this forum and say I was wrong.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 05:22:20 -0000, you wrote:

>. I can garentee that if I can get wiped out while

>out side(fresh air mixture)from any one of the things I'm sensative

>to, that putting belongings that are infested with mycotoxins in a

>clean home aren't going to make a bit of difference to me. what would

>even be the difference of walking into a moldy home or walking into a

>clean home with mold infested belongings???

Millions of times the amount of exposure, that's what!

You just hit the nail on the head Jeanne. Everyone speaks of me as if

I am dense, I'm dumb, I'm suicidal, I don't get it! While the whole

time in denial about their mold infested homes worrying about washing

mycotoxins off of their cloths or books or hair or dashboard or

whatever because their constantly sick! And as Live said,

" complaining about it to us anyway " Maybe you all need to take a

harder look at what YOUR doing instead of being so critical of me. At

least I have a plan.

[Guest guest]

Say what, bro your killin me. You can't ake one sentance and use that to prove

whatever point it is you are trying to prove. All be it I agree there would be

some difference in walking into an infested home as oposed to a clean home with

infested items, that does not make all what you say make sence all the sudden. I

don't know what your plan is but mine was simple. Leave it all behind and start

over. So tell us what is your plan? I am really curious.

Personally I don't think you are dense, dumb or suicidal. I just think you are

making some costly mistakes and possably trying to convince others to do the

same based on what you and I think only you believe.

I for the life of me don't understand why this discussion has gone on for so

long. So far I have not seen one person agree with your thought process and as

far as evidence, peers or whatever they seem to out weigh your theory or plan,

whatever it is you are tryiong to make a point about by far.

Even you said sitting in front of your monitor made you ill. What did you do

with the monitor? Are you still using it? If so, for god sakes why? I mean it

sounds like you think thigs through but at the same time it sounds like you have

not thought about anything but how to prove what you know to be true wrong.

Wud up wit dat????

Christ <antares41_41@...> wrote:

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 05:22:20 -0000, you wrote:

>. I can garentee that if I can get wiped out while

>out side(fresh air mixture)from any one of the things I'm sensative

>to, that putting belongings that are infested with mycotoxins in a

>clean home aren't going to make a bit of difference to me. what would

>even be the difference of walking into a moldy home or walking into a

>clean home with mold infested belongings???

Millions of times the amount of exposure, that's what!

You just hit the nail on the head Jeanne. Everyone speaks of me as if

I am dense, I'm dumb, I'm suicidal, I don't get it! While the whole

time in denial about their mold infested homes worrying about washing

mycotoxins off of their cloths or books or hair or dashboard or

whatever because their constantly sick! And as Live said,

" complaining about it to us anyway " Maybe you all need to take a

harder look at what YOUR doing instead of being so critical of me. At

least I have a plan.

Life is a balance of holding on and letting go...

---------------------------------

Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

so you think that only high doses can hurt you?

can't really tell you from experience about any other molds at low

doses but i know what stachy and chaetomium can do.

barb maybe can vouch for what fusarium can do at lower doses long

term.

it may depend on what belongings you are planning to put in this

place. bed,couch,chairs, things you might not be able to clean very

well could be a bad idea.

no ones saying your stupied,or anything else. maybe its just as hard

for people who are very ill to understand those not so ill and visa

versa. but if your not so ill yet do you really want to risk it? and

what does it say about how you think about others when you don't

believe what we are trying to tell you.

it goes both ways, did you ever stop to think that your posts saying

basically that you dont believe that contaminated items hurt anyone

might aggervate those who have been through hell over this problem

because they didn't even know they were exposed or dragging around

contaminated belongings. if it works for you thats great, that

doesn't mean its going to work for everyone. it could definitly be so

different for each person based on thier exposure and to what and to

what amounts and for how long and how sensative they end up being and

lets not forget the genitics and/or dna mutations.

>

> >. I can garentee that if I can get wiped out while

> >out side(fresh air mixture)from any one of the things I'm sensative

> >to, that putting belongings that are infested with mycotoxins in a

> >clean home aren't going to make a bit of difference to me. what

would

> >even be the difference of walking into a moldy home or walking

into a

> >clean home with mold infested belongings???

>

> Millions of times the amount of exposure, that's what!

> You just hit the nail on the head Jeanne. Everyone speaks of me as

if

> I am dense, I'm dumb, I'm suicidal, I don't get it! While the whole

> time in denial about their mold infested homes worrying about

washing

> mycotoxins off of their cloths or books or hair or dashboard or

> whatever because their constantly sick! And as Live said,

> " complaining about it to us anyway " Maybe you all need to take a

> harder look at what YOUR doing instead of being so critical of me.

At

> least I have a plan.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-and when i said that i was thinking about belongings like a bed that

you sleep on with the mold going up your nose all night or your

favorite overstuffed chair and everytime you set on it mold spores

fly up and you inhale them. but maybe your just going to looking at

them and not stirring anything up maybe thats why your belongings

that are stored at your brothers house dont bother you. see what i

mean? there are so many possabilitys it makes my head hurt.

-- In , United States Vet

<unitedstatesvet@...> wrote:

>

> Say what, bro your killin me. You can't ake one sentance and use

that to prove whatever point it is you are trying to prove. All be it

I agree there would be some difference in walking into an infested

home as oposed to a clean home with infested items, that does not

make all what you say make sence all the sudden. I don't know what

your plan is but mine was simple. Leave it all behind and start over.

So tell us what is your plan? I am really curious.

> Personally I don't think you are dense, dumb or suicidal. I just

think you are making some costly mistakes and possably trying to

convince others to do the same based on what you and I think only you

believe.

> I for the life of me don't understand why this discussion has

gone on for so long. So far I have not seen one person agree with

your thought process and as far as evidence, peers or whatever they

seem to out weigh your theory or plan, whatever it is you are tryiong

to make a point about by far.

> Even you said sitting in front of your monitor made you ill. What

did you do with the monitor? Are you still using it? If so, for god

sakes why? I mean it sounds like you think thigs through but at the

same time it sounds like you have not thought about anything but how

to prove what you know to be true wrong.

> Wud up wit dat????

>

> Christ <antares41_41@...> wrote:

> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 05:22:20 -0000, you wrote:

>

> >. I can garentee that if I can get wiped out while

> >out side(fresh air mixture)from any one of the things I'm

sensative

> >to, that putting belongings that are infested with mycotoxins in a

> >clean home aren't going to make a bit of difference to me. what

would

> >even be the difference of walking into a moldy home or walking

into a

> >clean home with mold infested belongings???

>

> Millions of times the amount of exposure, that's what!

> You just hit the nail on the head Jeanne. Everyone speaks of me as

if

> I am dense, I'm dumb, I'm suicidal, I don't get it! While the whole

> time in denial about their mold infested homes worrying about

washing

> mycotoxins off of their cloths or books or hair or dashboard or

> whatever because their constantly sick! And as Live said,

> " complaining about it to us anyway " Maybe you all need to take a

> harder look at what YOUR doing instead of being so critical of me.

At

> least I have a plan.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Life is a balance of holding on and letting go...

>

> ---------------------------------

> Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 03:40:15 -0000, you wrote:

>so you think that only high doses can hurt you?

I would rather bump into someone on the street than get hit by a mac

truck.

>no ones saying your stupied,or anything else.

Poor choice of words from a hastily written post.

Everyone thinks I am crazy and I don't get it. What I am trying to get

across is the exact opposite may be true.

> maybe its just as hard

>for people who are very ill to understand those not so ill and visa

>versa. but if your not so ill yet do you really want to risk it?

There was once one member in this group that was extremely ill but not

anymore because he used avoidance techniques that worked for him. In

particular an all metal camper. THIS IS MY PLAN to find an all metal

structure with no possibility for mold whatsoever! I believe those who

are more ill than I are that way MOSTLY because of exposure to mold,

not nesassarly that their disease is more pronounced than mine and

visa versa.

>and what does it say about how you think about others when you don't

>believe what we are trying to tell you.

It means allot considering my message is not popular but I insist on

defending it.

I think it's a waste of money, time, and resources we desperately

cannot afford to lose. Our focus needs to be on how to find a safe

place to put our head down. Where that might be for 99.97% of us that

can't buy an old school bus or van I don't know. But I truly believe

we are wasting our time with this notion of contamination and

mycotoxins and what not. My only fear with contamination would be

spores growing in the new location, and that won't happen if their is

no favorable conditions. So that is where our foucus needs to be.

NOT ALLOWING MOLD TO GROW!

[Guest guest]

I think it's better to just accept each others differing view points

than to argue about who is right. 's notion is that it is

mold spores to be avoided if sick, is not making anyone live with

mycotoxins. Your lives are separate. It would be different if we

were all living in one place and had to decide as a group to do this

or that. I think differing opinions are healthy and many times

gives others a different way to look at something and stimulates new

thinking, but I don't think it is in any way refuting another

person's experiences. Maybe neither one is right. Maybe everything

that is bothering us is already inside our bodies and

something 'external' is triggering it. I'm just throwing that out

there as food for thought but actually don't believe it myself but

as an example. Thinking or viewing things in a different way than

you have been is good for everyone. If you read others views open

mindedly and then reject them and come back to thinking the same way

that you did, what is lost...nothing. isn't making other

people live differently. He's just saying he is going to use a

technique of avoiding viable spores rather than worry about

mycotoxins. Maybe he is wrong and if he is, he is only person who

will experience the follie of thinking. Not that we don't care

about but if we/or you have already expressed that toxins are

problem mainly ALOT and cross contamination, then that is all that

can be done. I don't see point in arguing over whose theory is

correct one. I think express all of them is good. I think no idea

is bad idea to express at least, just like no question is dumb

question. I think live and let live, allow people their own ideas

and allow them to express themselves without criticism. People

shouldn't be afraid to have a different view. If we all think

alike, then there is no purpose to discussion anyway. Just

share 'facts' but there is alot of dispute as to what is fact. Even

the experts don't say the same thing. We all know that. No two

doctors I've been to, not even mold doctors agree on many things.

They all have some theories that only they hold so why expect people

here to all think alike? Say why you disagree and then go on to

something else. At least that is what I think should happen. You

might disagree with someone 99.999% of the time and think he makes

no sense but once in a great while he may say something novel that

gives you a new idea you hadn't considered before that is of

benefit. However if discussion is stiffled due to it being an

unpopular idea then you don't hear that rare good idea a person

might have. However with things that have been discussed alot such

as ozone, I think person should only post info on it if it is brand

new information or if there are new members which might be done

like " I use ozone for that and if you want to discuss it, please

email me privately since everyone else here has already discussed " ,

etc. These are just my thoughts on this type of back and forth

disagreement on differing points of view. It takes up alot of post

space and not much new information.

>

> >so you think that only high doses can hurt you?

> I would rather bump into someone on the street than get hit by a

mac truck

[Guest guest]

robrt, liveing with lower exposures in not like getting hit once but

over and over again. you could end up just as damaged as getting get

once by a mac truck.

if youve already been hit by a mac truck, those extra little hits may

be enough to keep you going back to the emergency room.

there are people who have walked out, leaveing everything behind,

even the cloths on thier back and were disinfected in thier front

yard who still remain very ill.

a place is a place and no matter if its a rv a apartment, home,

duplex,trailer or whatever it all comes down to weather you and yOUR

sensativitys can tolerate it. i know there are those sicker than me,

theres been some some coments made about contaminated objects, cross

contamination, etc. that i at first had a hard time believeing but i

have to remined myself that everyones exposure and end result is

different so i who's to say.

if you believe something will work for you, go for it. no one can

tell you what you are felling just as you are not going to puch your

beliefs on someone who's already been there done that. best of luck

with whatever plan you deside to try, hope it works for you.

>

> >so you think that only high doses can hurt you?

> I would rather bump into someone on the street than get hit by a mac

> truck.

>

> >no ones saying your stupied,or anything else.

> Poor choice of words from a hastily written post.

> Everyone thinks I am crazy and I don't get it. What I am trying to

get

> across is the exact opposite may be true.

>

> > maybe its just as hard

> >for people who are very ill to understand those not so ill and

visa

> >versa. but if your not so ill yet do you really want to risk it?

> There was once one member in this group that was extremely ill but

not

> anymore because he used avoidance techniques that worked for him. In

> particular an all metal camper. THIS IS MY PLAN to find an all metal

> structure with no possibility for mold whatsoever! I believe those

who

> are more ill than I are that way MOSTLY because of exposure to mold,

> not nesassarly that their disease is more pronounced than mine and

> visa versa.

>

> >and what does it say about how you think about others when you

don't

> >believe what we are trying to tell you.

> It means allot considering my message is not popular but I insist on

> defending it.

> I think it's a waste of money, time, and resources we desperately

> cannot afford to lose. Our focus needs to be on how to find a safe

> place to put our head down. Where that might be for 99.97% of us

that

> can't buy an old school bus or van I don't know. But I truly believe

> we are wasting our time with this notion of contamination and

> mycotoxins and what not. My only fear with contamination would be

> spores growing in the new location, and that won't happen if their

is

> no favorable conditions. So that is where our foucus needs to be.

> NOT ALLOWING MOLD TO GROW!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

ooppps, sorry about spelling, lol's not sure where my head was.

> >

> > >so you think that only high doses can hurt you?

> > I would rather bump into someone on the street than get hit by a

mac

> > truck.

> >

> > >no ones saying your stupied,or anything else.

> > Poor choice of words from a hastily written post.

> > Everyone thinks I am crazy and I don't get it. What I am trying

to

> get

> > across is the exact opposite may be true.

> >

> > > maybe its just as hard

> > >for people who are very ill to understand those not so ill and

> visa

> > >versa. but if your not so ill yet do you really want to risk it?

> > There was once one member in this group that was extremely ill

but

> not

> > anymore because he used avoidance techniques that worked for him.

In

> > particular an all metal camper. THIS IS MY PLAN to find an all

metal

> > structure with no possibility for mold whatsoever! I believe

those

> who

> > are more ill than I are that way MOSTLY because of exposure to

mold,

> > not nesassarly that their disease is more pronounced than mine and

> > visa versa.

> >

> > >and what does it say about how you think about others when you

> don't

> > >believe what we are trying to tell you.

> > It means allot considering my message is not popular but I insist

on

> > defending it.

> > I think it's a waste of money, time, and resources we desperately

> > cannot afford to lose. Our focus needs to be on how to find a safe

> > place to put our head down. Where that might be for 99.97% of us

> that

> > can't buy an old school bus or van I don't know. But I truly

believe

> > we are wasting our time with this notion of contamination and

> > mycotoxins and what not. My only fear with contamination would be

> > spores growing in the new location, and that won't happen if

their

> is

> > no favorable conditions. So that is where our foucus needs to be.

> > NOT ALLOWING MOLD TO GROW!

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Me too! Thanks

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:39:58 -0000, you wrote:

>. best of luck

>with whatever plan you deside to try, hope it works for you.