Re: How do I get mold out from inside my head?

[Guest guest]

Hi Roseanne,

You don't mention how long you've been on the CSM and whether you've had the

blood work to show where you started. If you're a multi-susceptible genotype

with low VEGF, low VIP, high C4A, low MSH, etc., it will likely take a while to

see results. And, indeed, you can feel worse during the protocol as it tends to

temporarily increase your inflammation while you're detoxing. I started out

with a normal C4A that shot up during treatment and it took me months before I

felt better at all (indeed, I felt far worse for quite a while, particularly

while taking abx for the MRSA nasal infection). While you mention you're

following the low amylose (basically no/low carb diet), you don't mention

whether you're taking fish oil for the inflammation. That made a world of

difference for me. I take it with each meal - 30 minutes after the CSM. You

could also be having an allergic reaction to the CSM as I did. I went to my

accupuncturist and she gave me a NAET treatment so that I could to

lerate the medicine, since I didn't feel I had an alternative. During the 24

hours off the CSM (required for the NAET treatment to be effective), my symptoms

were so intense, there was zero doubt that Dr. Shoemaker was right and that mold

was my big issue (I had also had Lyme, which was what I thought was my big

problem).

You are absolutely right that it is so difficult trying to care for children

when you're ill - I'm very fortunate that I didn't get so ill until my kids were

a bit older. Although, in hindsight given that they both got my mold gene, it

might have been better for us all for me to realize how sick I was before I got

hit by Lyme. Do you know your genotypes? I think that is such important

information to have - my younger son also got a dreaded genotype from his

father, so that means it is even more important that we all get to a safe place

ASAP.

Take care,

B.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " roxygardens " <Roxygardens@...>

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to accomplish this. I have

tried the diet protocol as well as the csm.

I`am not better off now, in fact probably worse . My head & face pain

is a constant. Iam now becomming increasingly convinced that it must

be mold because foods or something in my enviornment is making the

pain horrendous after I eat or get exposed to something.

I was hoping to get to see Dr. Shoemaker but something has come up in

the family and my daughter needs me to watch her 3 year old daughter

for a week in December. Thank goodness she will be getting me some

extra helping hands for parts of the day.

Hopefully after the holidays I can get to see him. That is such a long

way off to be in so much pain to take care of this little girl. Can

anyone offer any help or suggestions?

Thanks,

nne

[Guest guest]

nne,

Is it on outside/ like muscle pain of head and

face or seem to be coming from deeper inside?

This may seem like silly question, but have you

seen a head and neck pain specialist? They exist

and sometimes they cross over into dentistry, so

you might check the dental listing for neck and

head pain specialists. Doubt they will know

anything about mold but you do want to rule out

anything else since the mold route is so very

difficult to find help and long. Also CSM seems

to be particularly good when mold is causing pain

so the fact that it was of no help may be sign it

is not caused by toxins. Also, if it is

something else, you will get help faster.

[Guest guest]

> Also CSM seems

> to be particularly good when mold is causing pain

> so the fact that it was of no help may be sign it

> is not caused by toxins.

This statement isn't true at all. For me, CSM didn't seem to help much at all,

but I'm a dreaded genotype and if you read " Mold Warriors " , you'll see that if

you have other things going on such as the MRSA nasal infection or low VIP or

low VEGF, etc. (and I had many), CSM alone won't be good enough. CSM itself is

not a complete solution for neurotoxins induced illnesses - it's just a good

starting point for most folks and a necessity for many of us. I honestly

didn't realize how much it was helping me until I had to go off for 24 hours due

to a NAET treatment, and had my symptoms come back very intensely. But, I had

also dealt with many of the other issues such as elevated antibodies to gluten

before starting treatment, so it was perhaps much clearer to me the impact than

it might be for others.

I have several friends that have gotten local docs to prescribe CSM and their

response is that it also didn't seem to work, BUT their docs never ran the

baseline blood work, so you can't make that judgement until it's clear what else

is going on. IMHO, these docs didn't do an appropriate differential diagnosis

prior to starting the treatment and saying that the treatment failed or that

toxins aren't a problem without having done so is unreasonable.

B.

[Guest guest]

Are you talking about a headache? migraines gave me horrible head

pain- eye pain- for 10 years- a antihistamine (zertec)worked better

than the constant expensive migraine meds.

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to accomplish this. I have

> tried the diet protocol as well as the csm.

> I`am not better off now, in fact probably worse . My head & face

pain

> is a constant. Iam now becomming increasingly convinced that it

must

> be mold because foods or something in my enviornment is making the

> pain horrendous after I eat or get exposed to something.

> I was hoping to get to see Dr. Shoemaker but something has come up

in

> the family and my daughter needs me to watch her 3 year old

daughter

> for a week in December. Thank goodness she will be getting me some

> extra helping hands for parts of the day.

> Hopefully after the holidays I can get to see him. That is such a

long

> way off to be in so much pain to take care of this little girl.

Can

> anyone offer any help or suggestions?

>

> Thanks,

> nne

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for the clarification. No, I have not

read Mold Warriors so I stand corrected. I based

it on comments by people here who had pain which

was alleviated by CSM. I went to Dr Shoe and unfortunately cannot

tolerate the CSM very well so only take it occasionally. However I

had some very intense pain from 'frozen shoulder'

that disappeared after taking the CSM for very

short time but that could have been due to

something else because it disapeared and didn't

come back after about just two doses or something

similar. That was over a year ago. If CMS did not, quite amazing

but no way to tell. The doctor Rx physical therapy for

me but hadn't gone yet!!

I hope you find the solution to your head pain.

Barb

>

> > Also CSM seems

> > to be particularly good when mold is causing pain

> > so the fact that it was of no help may be sign it

> > is not caused by toxins.

>

> This statement isn't true at all. For me, CSM didn't seem to help

much at all, but I'm a dreaded genotype and if you read " Mold

Warriors " ,

[Guest guest]

YOU NEED TO SEE A GOOD NEUROLOGIST, & PROBABLY HAVE AT LEAST AN MRI....BUT I'M

NOT A DOCTOR.

VICTORIA

[] Re: How do I get mold out from inside my head?

nne,

Is it on outside/ like muscle pain of head and

face or seem to be coming from deeper inside?

This may seem like silly question, but have you

seen a head and neck pain specialist? They exist

and sometimes they cross over into dentistry, so

you might check the dental listing for neck and

head pain specialists. Doubt they will know

anything about mold but you do want to rule out

anything else since the mold route is so very

difficult to find help and long. Also CSM seems

to be particularly good when mold is causing pain

so the fact that it was of no help may be sign it

is not caused by toxins. Also, if it is

something else, you will get help faster.

[Guest guest]

B, don't you think that the CSM will block

absorption of the fish oil or vit e oil? If you

take it also at another time shouldn't matter but

if that is the main time you take it, may not be

getting the vit e out of it. Just a thought. Barb

[Guest guest]

> B, don't you think that the CSM will block

> absorption of the fish oil or vit e oil? If you

> take it also at another time shouldn't matter but

> if that is the main time you take it, may not be

> getting the vit e out of it. Just a thought. Barb

>

CSM will bind with some of your fat soluble vitamins and fish oil. I take the

CSM 30 minutes before my meals and then take the fish oil at the beginning of

the meal. CSM should be taking one hour after eating or 30 minutes before, so

as to minimize the binding with the nutrients, while optimize the movement of

bile in your system. I have also increased the amount of fish oil and other

supplements I use as the CSM does seem to bind some of those, as well.

[Guest guest]

On 11/5/06, mary.barnes@... <mary.barnes@...> wrote:

>

> > Also CSM seems

> > to be particularly good when mold is causing pain

> > so the fact that it was of no help may be sign it

> > is not caused by toxins.

>

> This statement isn't true at all. For me, CSM didn't seem to help much at

> all, but I'm a dreaded genotype and if you read " Mold Warriors " , you'll see

> that if you have other things going on such as the MRSA nasal infection or

> low VIP or low VEGF, etc. (and I had many), CSM alone won't be good

> enough. CSM itself is not a complete solution for neurotoxins induced

> illnesses - it's just a good starting point for most folks and a necessity

> for many of us. I honestly didn't realize how much it was helping me until

> I had to go off for 24 hours due to a NAET treatment, and had my symptoms

> come back very intensely. But, I had also dealt with many of the other

> issues such as elevated antibodies to gluten before starting treatment, so

> it was perhaps much clearer to me the impact than it might be for others.

>

> I have several friends that have gotten local docs to prescribe CSM and

> their response is that it also didn't seem to work, BUT their docs never ran

> the baseline blood work, so you can't make that judgement until it's clear

> what else is going on. IMHO, these docs didn't do an appropriate

> differential diagnosis prior to starting the treatment and saying that the

> treatment failed or that toxins aren't a problem without having done so is

> unreasonable.

>

> B.

This is easy to say and true on some levels but you have to understand the

doctors are terrified of the medical establishment and the insurance

companies and also they feel that they do not have the time to participate

in lawsuits. They are allotted around 6-8 minutes per patient by the HMOs

and if they spend more time than that with one patient, someone else gets

less.

In my case, I think being able to take CSM prevented my situation (which is

already a bad one) from being even worse. Sure, it would have been great to

get the blood work, but I didn't have the money to pay out of pocket and I

was hearing all sorts of conflicting messages at the time. And I was so weak

that walking a block was a major effort for me. Without the cholestyramine,

moving out would have been next to impossible. I was exposed to a lot more

mold as I was trying to move, and I got still sicker, but I could feel the

cholestyramine doing its best to suck out what it could. When I didn't take

it, I was completely overwhelmed.

I have a list of the various symptoms I was feeling then and it is 1 1/2

pages of scrawled, closely spaced text..

[Guest guest]

,

I'd suggest taking them AFTER the meal, so CMS doesn't suck them up

right away. Maybe even wait a half hour after the meal. That way the

oils in the meal will be sucked up first. By the time your oil based

vitamins are added, hopefully the resin is already filled up from the

bile from the meal.

With CMS you have to consume extra oil since it sucks all oils up.

If you have dry flaky skin, this may be a sign that it is and you

need more (a handful of nuts after the meal always helps...) You may

even want to take the dry or powder based versions of E and A.

Obviously fish oil isn't made in that form so it's best to take

later....

>

>

>

> > B, don't you think that the CSM will block

> > absorption of the fish oil or vit e oil? If you

> > take it also at another time shouldn't matter but

> > if that is the main time you take it, may not be

> > getting the vit e out of it. Just a thought. Barb

> >

>

> CSM will bind with some of your fat soluble vitamins and fish oil.

I take the CSM 30 minutes before my meals and then take the fish oil

at the beginning of the meal. CSM should be taking one hour after

eating or 30 minutes before, so as to minimize the binding with the

nutrients, while optimize the movement of bile in your system. I

have also increased the amount of fish oil and other supplements I

use as the CSM does seem to bind some of those, as well.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You must be meaning 'CMS' = 'CSM' = used as an abbreviation for

'cholestyramine' or " ion exchange resin " , Questran, etc.

Some people get confused seeing more than one abbreviation.. For other

people (like me) 'CMS' means something completely different..

BTW - Everyone here who's in the USA, make sure to VOTE today!

[Guest guest]

, etc.

Re: nuts for after CSM

I had a huge craving for nuts when I started CSM

and I had wondered if that is what made my

stomach so upset but I seemed to need them...all

I wanted was nuts. Of course list of things I

was allowed to have may have excluded other fatty

things but perhaps I was craving them due to CSM.

Maybe if I had a different fat with CSM I could

tolerate it better than I did. Maybe for me the

irritation of the little CSM fibers and the nuts

together caused the irritation. I didn't know

why I was craving so many nuts but figured if I

was craving them must be a reason so I ate them.

[Guest guest]

If CSM soaks up fats in digestive tract then

isn't it 'full' and how would it then have the

capacity to soak up toxins? Does anyone get

this? I'm a much more motivated patient if I

thoroughly understand how it works and that it

works. Do fats cause *bile* to be secreted to

digest fats and the bile AND fats are soaked up

by CSM and does the bile contain toxins, so when

CSM absorbs bile, it absorbs toxins??????

[Guest guest]

Okay, I may have some of this wrong, but this is how I understand it..

Don't the low-molecular weight mycotoxins removed from the bloodstream by

the liver accumulate in the bile?

If so the point of taking cholestyramine is to suck them out of the bile

after it leaves the gall bladder - as it passes through the stomach and

intestines..

The source of confusion could be those papers about using cholestyramine in

veterinary medicine - which are full of methods to use it to bind mycotoxins

in animal food (I gather that often animal food is food that was rejected

for use in human food -), but for us, its mostly a problem

inhaled/absorbed..

So the toxins go into the bile by being removed from the bloodstream by the

liver... and the cholestyramine is needed to prevent them from being

reabsorbed in the gut..

Is this right?

[Guest guest]

When I first took CSM I took it on empty stomach

and then didn't eat for a very long time thinking

other things would interfer with it's action, so

must eat things half hour afterwards and since it

may absorb fat soluable vitamins and fats, must

take in extra fats, good type and fat soluable

vitamin to offset. Tricky part would be

supplementing enough without overdoing it since

fat soluable vitamins are toxic if you take too

much since excess are not secreted but stored.

Nothing easy about this but I could give it

another try.

[Guest guest]

Sure, I had a period at the beginning where taking cholestyramine (CSM) felt

like an exorcism of sorts.. But it was worth it because it was sucking

toxins out of my system and I could feel that process.

I was in terrible shape at that time in my life because I was living in a

situation that was really bad, and I didn't have an easy way out of it.

Living in a city, your options as far as simply packing up and going are

severely limited, especially when you are not flush with cash. (We ended up

having to throw a lot of our stuff away, and the first place we moved into

was a very small studio apartment that cost nearly $2000 a month, which we

couldn't afford.)

But the cholestyramine made it so that at least I could limp around and pack

up my stuff, although I was in a lot of pain, (every joint in my body was

aching) and eventually we got our stuff out of there. Those days are now a

painful haze in my memory to me. That move was the worst ordeal I've ever

been though in my life..

[Guest guest]

-the omentrm absorbs the toxins and fats from the bile and

recirculates them back to the liver. the omentem can get hudge, this

is what has grown several times it size in alcoholics makeing thier

stomach big.also those starveing childen in other countries with the

big bellies, possably from contaminated rice. csm is supposed to bind

the fats and toxins to the bile so it can be passed instead of

reabsorbed into the omentem and back to the liver. I think when your

liver malfunctions is when this omemtem gets larger. makes your

stomach swell up. i'm starting to think that part of americas weight

problem is also because of he amount of toxins in our environment.

I wonder if the omentem can be removed? I dont know much more about

it. its like a fiberous, see through lineing thats conected to the

lower intestine, this is where it absorbs toxins and fat from the

bile. I think its the high aounts of toxins that cause the holes in

the intestines to get larger allowing this to happen, tied in with

the leaky gut syndrome like effects. this is the way i understand it.

maybe someone can fill in the gaps.-- In

, LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

>

> Okay, I may have some of this wrong, but this is how I understand

it..

>

> Don't the low-molecular weight mycotoxins removed from the

bloodstream by

> the liver accumulate in the bile?

>

> If so the point of taking cholestyramine is to suck them out of

the bile

> after it leaves the gall bladder - as it passes through the stomach

and

> intestines..

>

> The source of confusion could be those papers about using

cholestyramine in

> veterinary medicine - which are full of methods to use it to bind

mycotoxins

> in animal food (I gather that often animal food is food that was

rejected

> for use in human food -), but for us, its mostly a problem

> inhaled/absorbed..

>

> So the toxins go into the bile by being removed from the

bloodstream by the

> liver... and the cholestyramine is needed to prevent them from being

> reabsorbed in the gut..

>

> Is this right?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-you know, a doctor can probably look at someones stomach and tell if

thier a alcoholic or have liver problems from toxin exposure. even

before i knew this, i often wondered about those poor kids with the

bloated bellies and whats in that rice they eat. I also have to

wonder with the hiv/aids epademic in some of these countries, how

much of the hiv is actually toxin poisoning and autoimmune disorders

from it. as some servere cases could be misdiagnosed as hiv.i know

rice is supposed to be the least infected grain but its not myco free

and I wonder if what we send there would even be considered eatable

for animals. if so, it looks like your helping fight hunger while

your really slowly poisoning these people. just something i've

wondered about.-- In , LiveSimply

<quackadillian@...> wrote:

>

> Okay, I may have some of this wrong, but this is how I understand

it..

>

> Don't the low-molecular weight mycotoxins removed from the

bloodstream by

> the liver accumulate in the bile?

>

> If so the point of taking cholestyramine is to suck them out of

the bile

> after it leaves the gall bladder - as it passes through the stomach

and

> intestines..

>

> The source of confusion could be those papers about using

cholestyramine in

> veterinary medicine - which are full of methods to use it to bind

mycotoxins

> in animal food (I gather that often animal food is food that was

rejected

> for use in human food -), but for us, its mostly a problem

> inhaled/absorbed..

>

> So the toxins go into the bile by being removed from the

bloodstream by the

> liver... and the cholestyramine is needed to prevent them from being

> reabsorbed in the gut..

>

> Is this right?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

CSM is not absorbed. Provided that CSM is not taken with food, it binds

cholesterol, bile salts & biological toxins in the small intestine. Because it

binds toxins tightly, the toxins can not be reabsorbed; the CSM-toxin complex

is excreted harmlessly in the stool. Provided there is no re-exposure to toxin

or reacquisition of toxin, the CSM treatment will remove all the toxin over

time, curing the chronic, toxin-mediated illness. The time it takes to be

cured depends on the amount of toxin in your body. Some may take 2 weeks while

others may take longer.

Sue

If CSM soaks up fats in digestive tract then

isn't it 'full' and how would it then have the

capacity to soak up toxins? Does anyone get

this? I'm a much more motivated patient if I

thoroughly understand how it works and that it

works. Do fats cause *bile* to be secreted to

digest fats and the bile AND fats are soaked up

by CSM and does the bile contain toxins, so

[Guest guest]

-sorry, the proper spelling is omentum and it absorbs toxins from the

stool in the lower intestinal tract and sends it back to the liver.

csm binds the fats and toxins to the stool so its passed on through

instead of getting reabsorbed.

definition of omemtum

<http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4632>

cholestyramine

<http://www.medicinenet.com/cholestyramine/article.htm>

well see what I can locate to explain it better.

-- In , " who " <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> -the omentrm absorbs the toxins and fats from the bile and

> recirculates them back to the liver. the omentem can get hudge,

this

> is what has grown several times it size in alcoholics makeing thier

> stomach big.also those starveing childen in other countries with

the

> big bellies, possably from contaminated rice. csm is supposed to

bind

> the fats and toxins to the bile so it can be passed instead of

> reabsorbed into the omentem and back to the liver. I think when

your

> liver malfunctions is when this omemtem gets larger. makes your

> stomach swell up. i'm starting to think that part of americas

weight

> problem is also because of he amount of toxins in our environment.

> I wonder if the omentem can be removed? I dont know much more about

> it. its like a fiberous, see through lineing thats conected to the

> lower intestine, this is where it absorbs toxins and fat from the

> bile. I think its the high aounts of toxins that cause the holes in

> the intestines to get larger allowing this to happen, tied in with

> the leaky gut syndrome like effects. this is the way i understand

it.

> maybe someone can fill in the gaps.-- In

> , LiveSimply <quackadillian@> wrote:

> >

> > Okay, I may have some of this wrong, but this is how I understand

> it..

> >

> > Don't the low-molecular weight mycotoxins removed from the

> bloodstream by

> > the liver accumulate in the bile?

> >

> > If so the point of taking cholestyramine is to suck them out of

> the bile

> > after it leaves the gall bladder - as it passes through the

stomach

> and

> > intestines..

> >

> > The source of confusion could be those papers about using

> cholestyramine in

> > veterinary medicine - which are full of methods to use it to bind

> mycotoxins

> > in animal food (I gather that often animal food is food that was

> rejected

> > for use in human food -), but for us, its mostly a problem

> > inhaled/absorbed..

> >

> > So the toxins go into the bile by being removed from the

> bloodstream by the

> > liver... and the cholestyramine is needed to prevent them from

being

> > reabsorbed in the gut..

> >

> > Is this right?

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Bile Acid Resins (Cholestyramine)

Bile is the substance that the body uses to help digest fats. It is

made in the liver, and stored in the gallbladder. When dietary fats

reach the small intestine, the gallbladder squeezes bile into the

small intestine to aid in the digestion and transport of these fats.

Particles made up of bile and fat are reabsorbed by the small

intestine, go into the blood, and travel directly to the liver where

the bile is recycled. Bile acid resins absorb bile acid in the

intestinal tract rather than letting it be reabsorbed and reused by

the body. This bile deficit causes the liver to produce more bile.

Since the liver uses cholesterol to produce bile, bile acid resins

reduce cholesterol levels in the blood stream.

Cholestyramine absorbs a portion of the bile so it can't recirculate

and takes it out through the stool. It is the best detoxifier that

we know of! Better than activated charcoal, bentonite clay, etc.

Without it, the fats/toxins/cholesterol would just recirculate

because the body says " that cholesterol, we need some of this " ...

That's why eating something 1/2 hr (with fat in it) after taking

Cholestyramine (on an empty stomach)is the ideal way to shoot the

bile right into the waiting cholestyramine sponge...

>

> If CSM soaks up fats in digestive tract then

> isn't it 'full' and how would it then have the

> capacity to soak up toxins? Does anyone get

> this? I'm a much more motivated patient if I

> thoroughly understand how it works and that it

> works. Do fats cause *bile* to be secreted to

> digest fats and the bile AND fats are soaked up

> by CSM and does the bile contain toxins, so when

> CSM absorbs bile, it absorbs toxins??????

>