RE: childhood and Aspergers symtoms - discipline

November 25, 2002

Bec,

There's this technique called " social stories. " See, a lot of the

social give and take is incomprehensible to a lot of autistic people, so

they react sometimes as your brother and you reacted. Social stories

helps a child learn social skills much as you would learn Spanish for

travel. That is, you make a story out of social situations,

like....well, along the line of " A person says this to you, and you can

say this in reply to that person. " It's more or less learning scripts

that will work in social situations. While it's true that our kids

don't come by social graces, conversational skills (and I don't mean

just being verbal) or self-control in public situations, that doesn't

mean they can't be *taught* these skills. Sure it takes a while, but

what better use of a persons time than making sure their kid won't feel

uncomfortable or bad and react by acting out or closing up?

I know I'm probably explaining this badly, but I also know that there

are others on this list who are better at explaining it than I am. So

anyone that wants to join in on this with explanation or URLs, go for it.

Annie, who loves ya annie@...

--

" Dreaming permits each and every one of us to be quietly and safely

insane every night of our lives. " -- Dement

November 26, 2002

Bec, I do not think you were rambling but then I put a lot in a post myself. (o; I can also understand you not wanting your child to use his asperger's as an excuse for his actions. We understand why our boys with bipolar do things on impulse but we do not let them use it as an excuse for bad actions. Discipline is as varied as our children. Some people will never spank or smack their child because they believe that it is wrong. That is not the way I was brought up and I do not think spankings hurt, beatings do. I smacked Evan on the leg today which is unusal. I usually just scold him but he knew better than to spread his cereal all over the table, chair and floor. His bipolar brother thought it was pretty funny when I said something about the kitten eating the cereal off the floor so when my back was turned he dumped his on the floor to feed the cat. As if there was not enough on the floor already. I smacked his little rear end also. They both are still living and breathing and have forgotten all about it. Hopefully though tomorrow morning they will eat their cereal and not play in it.

I have a stepson that acts a bit like your brother. I know he has a disorder of some kind but he will never, at his age, be dx'd. His dad nor I would even dare suggest that he might have a problem. My own son is probably mad at me that I wrote to him and suggested that he might be bipolar. Oh, well, I just would like to see him get help for his depression and cycling moods.

Betty Effexor, Omega 3'sgrandma and guardian to - 11 yo-- Bipolar/ADHD on Depakote, Adderall, Omega 3'sEvan - 8 yo nonverbal autism on 3 mg Risperdal - 6 - Bipolar/ADHD/RAD/PTSD on Tegretol, Adderall, clondine .1 mg, Omega 3'smother to , their mom - Bipolar/ADHD on Topamaxwife to Bob too many meds to remember

November 26, 2002

Hi Bec,

Discipline has been a big issue around here too. will get so

angry sometimes and lash out at me or his sister. It is not such a

big deal now when he is 6 and only weighs 37 pounds, but I worry

about the future when he is bigger.

But, we have been making progress. He has a new behavior therapist

who has been working with him on " red " thoughts and " green "

thoughts. The idea being that red thoughts get him in trouble and

make him unhappy and he needs to turn red thoughts in to green

thoughts.

Well, tonight, he was having an absolute fit in the car on the way

home (this is after the fit he threw at the babysitters and on the

bus from school) It got so bad I had to pull to the side of the

road to keep from having an accident. We were both very angry.

After that I told him we both needed to get our red thoughts turned

to green. When we got home, I sent him up to his room and told him

he could not come down until he got rid of all those red thoughts

and only had green ones. Well! It worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!! About 5

minutes later (after hearing a lot of screaming, yelling, and

pounding coming from his room...) he came back down stairs,

apologized and said he was going to have green thoughts the rest of

the night. And he did. We had a nice dinner, he watched some TV

and went to bed easily. In months past, a mood like that would have

lasted until bedtime, which would have been an hour long

nightmare!! I was very pleased with the result.

Good luck!!!!

Debi in San Diego

November 26, 2002

Annie,

I do the Social Stories a lot with Trev. I didn’t know that was what I was

doing. We spend LOTS of time

talking about alternative choices, consequences, etc. Since I changed Trev’s

diet, I can reason with him. Previously,

I would not have been able to reason with him. I just picked up a book called “Navigating

the Social World, a guide for Aspergers” or

something like that. I haven’t

had a chance to read the book. But,

I think the cover mentioned something about social stories. Sounds like I need to read my book.

Most of what I have done with him has been

teach him the things I didn’t learn until I was in my 20’s. Some very patient caring people spent a

lot of time with me teaching me how to do things. They are still teaching me.

Thanks,

Bec

Re:

childhood and Aspergers symtoms - discipline

Bec,

There's this technique called " social

stories. " See, a lot of the

social give and take is incomprehensible to a lot

of autistic people, so

they react sometimes as your brother and you

reacted. Social stories

helps a child learn social skills much as you

would learn Spanish for

travel. That is, you make a story out of

social situations,

like....well, along the line of " A person

says this to you, and you can

say this in reply to that person. " It's

more or less learning scripts

that will work in social situations. While

it's true that our kids

don't come by social graces, conversational skills

(and I don't mean

just being verbal) or self-control in public

situations, that doesn't

mean they can't be *taught* these skills.

Sure it takes a while, but

what better use of a persons time than making sure

their kid won't feel

uncomfortable or bad and react by acting out or

closing up?

I know I'm probably explaining this badly, but I

also know that there

are others on this list who are better at

explaining it than I am. So

anyone that wants to join in on this with

explanation or URLs, go for it.

Annie, who loves ya

annie@...

--

" Dreaming permits each and every one of us to

be quietly and safely

insane every night of our lives. " --

Dement

To

unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

autism-aspergers-unsubscribeegroups

Your use of

Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!

Terms of Service.

November 26, 2002

Betty,

Trevor has always spread cereal all over

the floor, chair, table, etc. Then

he would crunch it. It used to

drive me mad the messes he made several times a week. I put him in time out, put his toys in

time out, told him his breakfast was over, etc. Nothing worked.

I recently read a book called “The

Out of Sync Child”. I read the

book since my other son that has a mitochondrial disorder also has Sensory

Integration issues. When I started

reading the book, I saw more of Trevor in those pages than I saw of Spenc. The book stated that people with Aspergers frequently have sensory issues. One of the areas is tactile, ie touch. Some

people crave input, they just don’t get enough

of it. Other people abhor input and

shun input. (The second one is Spency. He is always

protecting the palms of his hands.)

The book talked about crunching cereal and spreading it around as a way

to get more tactile input!

OMG! I was so shocked. I saw other instances over and over

again in that book showing that Trevor craves tactile input. He wraps himself in blankets, crawls

under tables, rolls on the floor, wants to touch or lick everything, does

somersaults over dried beans and macaroni, throws himself on the floor, sometimes

he runs madcap like a maniac around the house, etc.

Now when I see Trevor doing some of these

activities, I redirect him to get input in socially acceptable ways. I tell him that he can crunch the cereal

on the deck. I give him a large bowl

and tell him he can crunch away as long as he keeps the cereal in the bowl. The other day, I put a blanket on the

floor and let him spread dried beans and macaroni on the floor so he could roll

around in it. The OT at school

performed a sensory profile on him and gave me the results today. She also gave me suggestions for other

things I could do at home to help him.

I could provide these if anyone is interested.

I have noticed when I give him positive,

acceptable ways to get input we are both happier. First, I understand now why he needs to

do some of the things he does. Second,

I am ok with the ways I am allowing him to get input since I am

redirecting. Third, I discovered he

focuses better, listens better, and isn’t driving me crazy doing

unacceptable things. We talk about

what are acceptable and unacceptable ways for him to get input.

Thank you, Betty; you just let me know

that I am already doing some very positive things to help him.

Bec

Trevor, 5.11 years with Aspergers

Spencer 20 months with mitochondrial

complex II deficiency

Married to 10 years

Re:

childhood and Aspergers symtoms - discipline

Bec, I do not think you were rambling but then I put a

lot in a post myself. (o; I can also understand you not wanting your

child to use his asperger's as an excuse for his actions. We understand

why our boys with bipolar do things on impulse but we do not let them use it as

an excuse for bad actions. Discipline is as varied as our children.

Some people will never spank or smack their child because they believe that it

is wrong. That is not the way I was brought up and I do not think spankings

hurt, beatings do. I smacked Evan on the leg today which is unusal.

I usually just scold him but he knew better than to spread his cereal all over

the table, chair and floor. His bipolar brother thought it was pretty

funny when I said something about the kitten eating the cereal off the floor so

when my back was turned he dumped his on the floor to feed the cat. As if

there was not enough on the floor already. I smacked his little rear end

also. They both are still living and breathing and have forgotten all about

it. Hopefully though tomorrow morning they will eat their cereal and not

play in it.

I have a stepson that acts a bit like your

brother. I know he has a disorder of some kind but he will never, at his

age, be dx'd. His dad nor I would even dare suggest that he might have a

problem. My own son is probably mad at me that I wrote to him and

suggested that he might be bipolar. Oh, well, I just would like to

see him get help for his depression and cycling moods.

Betty Effexor, Omega 3's

grandma and guardian to

- 11 yo-- Bipolar/ADHD on Depakote, Adderall, Omega 3's

Evan - 8 yo nonverbal autism on 3 mg Risperdal

- 6 - Bipolar/ADHD/RAD/PTSD on Tegretol, Adderall, clondine .1 mg,

Omega 3's

mother to , their mom - Bipolar/ADHD on Topamax

wife to Bob too many meds to remember

November 26, 2002

Debi,

I like the red thoughts / green thoughts

deal. Trevor and I roller skate

each Saturday and they play a game called “Green Light Go”. Trevor will get the rules. I think he will like this “game”. Thanks for the suggestion.

One of the things we have talked about

with him has been that just because his brain tells him to do something doesn’t

mean he has to follow through with that action. That same day we had a perfect live

action experience for him.

Trevor had been pinching all members of the

family but mostly his little brother.

One morning, he acted like he was going to pinch his brother; pincher

fingers raised and aimed going towards his brother’s leg. We gave him a consequence of time out

for 5 minutes. No sooner was he

allowed back in the room with the family, he pinched his father’s

foot. picked Trevor up walked

across the room very fast, held him up against the wall, and growled something

to him about his behavior being unacceptable and he was going to loose the privilege

of sleeping with his little brother for 1 week. told Trevor that we couldn’t

trust him and he needed to prove to us that we could trust him. (This was a HUGE consequence since

Trevor hates to sleep alone. He

wants to either sleep on the couch in our room or with his brother.) It is our belief that a consequence is

only effective if it actually causes them some kind of emotional distress that

makes them remember to not do this again.

When Trevor was allowed back with us, I

asked Trevor why he pinched his father after he had just been in sad times. He said, “My brain told me to do it”. I told him that he didn’t have to

do everything his brain told him to do.

Then, I said, “You know as mad as Daddy was with you, I bet his

brain was telling him to spank you really hard for pinching.” said, “No my brain told me

to pinch him really hard so he would know how that feels. But I decided that pinching him for

pinching me wasn’t the best way to teach him the lesson but rather not

letting him sleep with Spencer would be more painful for him.”

A perfect timing example for my brain told

me to do it excuse.

Thanks again for the red thoughts / green

thoughts idea.

Bec

Re:

childhood and Aspergers symtoms - discipline

Hi Bec,

Discipline has been a big issue around here

too. will get so

angry sometimes and lash out at me or his

sister. It is not such a

big deal now when he is 6 and only weighs 37

pounds, but I worry

about the future when he is bigger.

But, we have been making progress. He has a

new behavior therapist

who has been working with him on " red "

thoughts and " green "

thoughts. The idea being that red thoughts

get him in trouble and

make him unhappy and he needs to turn red thoughts

in to green

thoughts.

Well, tonight, he was having an absolute fit in

the car on the way

home (this is after the fit he threw at the

babysitters and on the

bus from school) It got so bad I had

to pull to the side of the

road to keep from having an accident. We

were both very angry.

After that I told him we both needed to get our

red thoughts turned

to green. When we got home, I sent him up to

his room and told him

he could not come down until he got rid of all

those red thoughts

and only had green ones. Well! It

worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!! About 5

minutes later (after hearing a lot of screaming,

yelling, and

pounding coming from his room...) he came back

down stairs,

apologized and said he was going to have green

thoughts the rest of

the night. And he did. We had a nice

dinner, he watched some TV

and went to bed easily. In months past, a

mood like that would have

lasted until bedtime, which would have been an

hour long

nightmare!! I was very pleased with the

result.

Good luck!!!!

Debi in San Diego

November 27, 2002

, Hi. My son Skylar is going on 8 yrs old. He is ADHD,

Aspergers, and has ODD and OCD traits. I explain a lot of things

to Sky just because. I'll tell him if I'm having a bad day, if

someone has me upset, if the computer is giving me a hard time, etc.

And I let him vioce his opinion also. We joke and laugh alot.

And I don't take things to serious either. I do all of this so

that when he misbehaves or says something wrong he will know it.

Like the other night. I said he could have $5.00 for the school

book fair. My Mom gave him $3.00 and he had some change so all

together he had $ 9.00. He was trying in the worst way to get

another $ 1.00 out of me. Well, he went to bed saying I had to

give him a buck. Making noise in the bed and throwing pillows

etc. The next morning he was still on the dollar bit.

So I said to him " If I had a million dollars I wouldn't give

him any more money because of his behavior. " Then as usual,

I made him repeat it to me so I knew he heard me. That was the

end. I don't argue with him or hit him.

I have found that If I get out of control he just feeds on it

so I make light of a lot of things. Then again, its just him and

me so that makes it a little easier. I use ALOT of positive praise

when he does good things that the negative things are slowly going

away. Also lots of hugs and kisses (even when he says I'm bugging

him) Sharon in So Jersey

>

>Reply-To: autism-aspergers

>To: <autism-aspergers >

>Subject: RE: childhood and Aspergers symtoms -

>discipline

>Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:56:38 -0600

>

>Thanks for your kind words.

>

>We have been struggling with the discipline issues. A parent would

>typically ground or put a typical child in sad times (time out) for

>various infractions. But how do you know what and how much to

>discipline a child with Aspergers. Discipline, to me, means that you

>expect a certain level of reasoning from the child. You are giving them

>consequences trying to curb future misbehavior.

>

>Where do you draw the line with disciplining them for things they cannot

>control? Yet, we, as parents, need to give them the road map for

>negotiating the typical world. Certain behaviors are just not accepted

>in the typical world.

>

>My goal is on my child as an adult. I believe my brother is an undxed

>Aspergers. ly, I do not like being around my brother. He is rude,

>obnoxious, and hateful. He says hurtful things and truly doesn't

>understand why feelings would be hurt by anything he did or said. He

>cusses at people. He yells and screams. I am scared of him. I imagine

>others around him are, also. He twists everything I say to make it

>negative and ugly. He actually believes everything he says. It is

>amazing to me. I cannot carry on a conversation with him because he

>interrupts with his babbling and doesn't understand why it is considered

>rude behavior. He is 37 years old, divorced, and no kids. For the most

>part, we have had a very stormy history.

>

>Everything I just said about my brother could and would have been said

>about me 15 years ago. (I am embarrassed to admit this but it is true.)

>I avoid heavy fats, milk products, and sugars because I tend to get

>anxiety attacks, and scared on these foods. I have worked very hard on

>myself to fit into the typical world. I worked very hard to modify my

>behavior. I believe that I may also have undxed Aspergers dietary

>controlled. I am not the same person I was then. I have not behaved

>that way in, like I said, 15 years or more.

>

>I do not want my child to become my brother. On sugars and milk

>products, my son reminds me a lot of me and my brother when we were

>young. My challenge to how do I discipline him helping to teach him how

>to behave appropriately yet not expecting more from him than he is

>capable of doing. Also, I don't want to give him the excuse of " I can't

>help it, it is the Aspergers " . I could see my brother doing that. I

>could see him saying, " I have this thing. I can't help it. I am this

>way. Take it or leave it. I am not responsible for it. Therefore, I

>can act anyway I want to act. "

>

>I truly apologize if I am sounding angry. I am but it is with my

>brother. I truly hope that my post doesn't offend anyone here.

>

>I hope I am making myself clear and not offensive to anyone. Just

>looking for some help on how to help my son be the best he can be. I do

>believe that modifying his diet is our number 1 tool in that direction.

>Just need some help on the discipline?

>

>Now I am rambling, sorry.

>

>Bec

>

> Re: childhood and Aspergers symtoms

>

> said:

>

> > You know hind site really does make things clearer.

>

>This is really true. I remember when Louie was first diagnosed. I

>kicked myself for a good month remembering each time I'd punished him

>for what he couldn't help doing due to his autism. Felt like a lousy

>mother and all that; my husband went through the same thing. But

>eventually that feeling passed as we began to get on with the work of

>helping him cope with a world he couldn't understand. The best thing

>any of Louie's therapists ever said to us was said by the psychologist

>who diagnosed him, " It isn't anything you did, or anything you didn't

>do. It's just the way Louie is. " Bless you, Mrs. Wimbish, wherever you

>

>are.

>

>This too shall pass. Try not to be too mean to yourself.

>

>Annie, who loves ya annie@...

>--

> " Dreaming permits each and every one of us to be quietly and safely

>insane every night of our lives. " -- Dement

>

December 9, 2002

We have been struggling with the discipline issues. A parent would typically ground or put a typical child in sad times (time out) for various infractions. But how do you know what and how much to discipline a child with Aspergers. Discipline, to me, means that you expect a certain level of reasoning from the child. You are giving them consequences trying to curb future misbehavior.

Where do you draw the line with disciplining them for things they cannot control?

Â My challenge to how do I discipline him helping to teach him how to behave appropriately yet not expecting more from him than he is capable of doing.Â Also, I donâ€™t want to give him the excuse of â€œI canâ€™t help it, it is the Aspergersâ€.Â I could see my brother doing that.Â I could see him saying, â€œI have this thing. Â I canâ€™t help it.Â I am this way.Â Take it or leave it.Â I am not responsible for it.Â Therefore, I can act anyway I want to act.â€

This is exactly what I`ve been putting myself through for the last couple years with my boys. How do you know? I think alot of times that my oldest sons teachers are expecting too much out of him. I feel sad when he gets detentions. I have to do so much for my kids at home that maybe I am doing too much. Maybe they are controlling me because I dont know if they are capable, and maybe they really are just lazy. I have so much to do and remember for them, that I forget to do my own things. People have told me that I should go to parenting classes, which I have. But its a whole other story when it comes to parenting kids like this. People wonder whats wrong with me that I have such problems with my kids. But they dont really know what I go through. And they dont want to babysit for me. They tell me what I should do, yet they arent willing to try it themselves. All they say is that they are glad they arent me because they wouldnt be able to take it. They say they dont know how I do it. Well, its not like I have a choice, I have to do it. I love my kids, but it would be nice to have a break, or not have so much expected of me when I already have so much expected of me. I feel like Im going crazy sometimes, as hard as I try, I feel like I cant be a very good parent, and worker, and keep house, all at the same time. I feel like I cant be a good parent when Im not there for my kids because Im working. I cant be a good worker when Im always late, because of my kids, and Im already so exausted from having to deal with them, and remember all their stuff. And I cant keep house very good when Im constantly having to deal with their asperger/ADD/ADHD/depression symptoms. Besides having my own problems with ADD/OCD/depression/ and more than likely asperger symptoms. I just want to stay in bed, and not have to face it all day after day. Now that I`ve been laid off, Im really terrified to go back to work and have it all get worse again.

December 9, 2002

,

You know others would clearly not blame us

if we had children with Diabetes. They understand that Diabetes has nothing

to do with our parenting skills but we must find a way to help them navigate in

the world of sweets.

Sometimes, I want my oldest to spend a

week with people so they get the picture.

Keep him for a week, let him eat whatever he wants, and don’t yell

at him when he starts acting the way I told you he acts when he is on sugars.

So far, I haven’t had any takers.

I totally understand your feelings. You do sound very depressed. Have you spoken with your Physician

about some help for you? I was on

an antidepressant for a period of time until I got to the place I could cope

with my “new life” as a Mom with challenged kids.

Trevor is so much better since I found

some ways to help him.

1. I totally removed the sugars from his

diet. It has been a Godsend.

2. I recently learned that most kiddos with

Autism Spectrum Disorders also have sensory integration issues. Trev is one of

those. At first, I thought that sensory

issues weren’t that big of a deal.

The more I read and learn, the more I realize how vitally important this

issue is for Trevor. Much of his

self stimming comes from the sensory issues. I found socially acceptable ways for him

to self stim that don’t drive me nuts. It is much more helpful to me since I

now recognize that what he is doing he MUST do. I just need to find ways to help him do

it appropriately.

I went to a seminar on Friday on Sensory

Integration and Autism. I bought a

book that is extremely helpful. The

book is in my bedroom and I need to make lunch before school. Running out of time. The title is something like “Aspergers and Sensory Integration Issues”. I will get it later and write the title

and author.

Please call your GP for help.

Bec

Re:

childhood and Aspergers symtoms - discipline

In a message dated 11/25/2002

12:01:55 PM Central Standard Time, rebecpeck@... writes:

We have

been struggling with the discipline issues. A parent would typically

ground or put a typical child in sad times (time out) for various

infractions. But how do you know what and how much to discipline a child

with Aspergers. Discipline, to me, means that you expect a certain level

of reasoning from the child. You are giving them consequences trying to

curb future misbehavior.

Where do

you draw the line with disciplining them for things they cannot control?

My

challenge to how do I discipline him helping to teach him how to behave

appropriately yet not expecting more from him than he is capable of

doing. Also, I don’t want to give him the excuse of “I

can’t help it, it is the Aspergers”. I could see my brother

doing that. I could see him saying, “I have this thing. I

can’t help it. I am this way. Take it or leave it. I am

not responsible for it. Therefore, I can act anyway I want to act.”

This is exactly what I`ve been putting myself through for

the last couple years with my boys. How do you know? I think alot of times that

my oldest sons teachers are expecting too much out of him. I feel sad when he

gets detentions. I have to do so much for my kids at home that maybe I am doing

too much. Maybe they are controlling me because I dont know if they are

capable, and maybe they really are just lazy. I have so much to do and remember

for them, that I forget to do my own things. People have told me that I should

go to parenting classes, which I have. But its a whole other story when it

comes to parenting kids like this. People wonder whats wrong with me that I

have such problems with my kids. But they dont really know what I go through.

And they dont want to babysit for me. They tell me what I should do, yet they

arent willing to try it themselves. All they say is that they are glad they

arent me because they wouldnt be able to take it. They say they dont know how I

do it. Well, its not like I have a choice, I have to do it. I love my kids, but

it would be nice to have a break, or not have so much expected of me when I

already have so much expected of me. I feel like Im going crazy sometimes, as

hard as I try, I feel like I cant be a very good parent, and worker, and keep

house, all at the same time. I feel like I cant be a good parent when Im not

there for my kids because Im working. I cant be a good worker when Im always

late, because of my kids, and Im already so exausted from having to deal with

them, and remember all their stuff. And I cant keep house very good when Im

constantly having to deal with their asperger/ADD/ADHD/depression symptoms.

Besides having my own problems with ADD/OCD/depression/ and more than likely

asperger symptoms. I just want to stay in bed, and not have to face it all day

after day. Now that I`ve been laid off, Im really terrified to go back to work

and have it all get worse again.

To

unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

autism-aspergers-unsubscribeegroups

Your

use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

December 10, 2002

“Asperger Syndrome and Sensory Issues, Practical Solutions

for Making Sense of the World”

Authors Myles, Tapscott Cook, E. , Louann

Rinner, and A Robbins

It is a little paper back book with all of

129 pages. Chapter 4 is

awesome! Thirty three pages of:

Behavior – Interpretation – Intervention

Actually the entire book is awesome as it correlates

Aspergers and Sensory Issues. Since I have been helping Trevor with

his Sensory issues, everyone has been happier.

Bec

Re:

childhood and Aspergers symtoms - discipline

In a message dated 11/25/2002 12:01:55 PM Central Standard

Time, rebecpeck@... writes:

We have been

struggling with the discipline issues. A parent would typically ground or

put a typical child in sad times (time out) for various infractions. But

how do you know what and how much to discipline a child with Aspergers.

Discipline, to me, means that you expect a certain level of reasoning from the

child. You are giving them consequences trying to curb future

misbehavior.