Re: If someone feels stressed and hurt, it's my responsibility

March 5, 2004

-Eva - What a loving and inspiring piece of work. How about

also " Its my responsibility if I feel stressed and hurt. " ?

Thanks.

Kate

-- In Loving-what-is , " evalobach " <e.lobach@c...>

wrote:

>

> > " I'm stressed, Eva! Do you know how stressed I am?! " :)

>

> " If someone feels stressed and hurt, it's my responsibility "

>

> 1. Is it true?

> Well, yes, if it is because of something I did....

> Can I really know it's because of something I did? Sometimes,

maybe.

> And it's my responsibility as a human being to care about my fellow

> human beings, isn't it? Is it?

>

> Whose business is it if someone else feels stressed and hurt?

> Not my business.

> Can I really know if they're feeling stressed and hurt, even if

they

> tell me so?

> I guess not...

> Can I really know what's best for their path, for my path?

> No, I can't.

> So, is it my responsibility if someone else feels stressed or hurt?

> Hm, no.

>

> 3. How do I react when I think the thought that it's my

> responsibility if someone else feels stressed or hurt?

>

> I feel oppressed.

> I feel guilty.

> A tightening feeling in my chest.

> I feel trapped.

> I become agitated inside.

> I feel angry.

> I blame them for feeling stressed and hurt.

> I think they use their hurt to draw attention.

> I accuse them of manipulating me.

> I think they're being ungrateful.

> I can't give them my full attention, I only listen to them

> superficially.

> I look for clues to make them happy again.

> I try to cheer them up.

> I show compassion even when I don't really feel it.

> I become phoney.

> I feel confused, not knowing what to do best.

> I feel hurt and rejected if they refused my help.

> I want them to see it my way.

> I am totally in their business and out of mine.

>

> Does the thought bring peace or stress? Stress!

> Do I see a reason to drop the thought! Yes, all of the above are

> reasons.

>

> 4. Who/what would I be without the thought that it is my

> responsibility if someone feels stressed or hurt?

>

> I'd be more at peace.

> I'd be able to listen more carefully if someone felt like talking

> about it.

> If asked, I'd feel free to offer help or not.

>

> Turnarounds:

> -- It is not my responsibility if someone else feels stressed or

> hurt.

> Truer, and it is a relief!

>

> -- My thinking is responsible if I see someone else as feeling

> stressed or hurt.

> It's my story about how somebody else is feeling. It hurts when I

> believe it.

>

> -- Someone else is responsible if he/she feels stressed or hurt.

>

> That seems to be the case. They could do a worksheet on it, or not.

> But it is not my business.

>

> -- Anymore turnarounds?

>

> Thanks for listening (or not.. )

> Eva

March 5, 2004

Hi Eva!

Great , HONEST work!!!!

Now, I would like to answer a previous question about core belifs. You can

do a hundred inquiries about hurting this person " s and that person " s

feelings, about feeling guilty for doing or not doing something, and fear

and stress over not pleasing loved ones, but if you do one inquiry on the

CORE BELIEF none of the others will be necessary. Your core belief is

probably something like: " I'll never be loved and accepted if I don't

continue to please people. " Stress and guilt are usually just fear that

we'll be rejected if we say " no " to someone or have offended them in some

way. A strong motivation for processing compulsive " people pleasing " is

that it keeps us in a negative energy state.

Love,

Eddie

>

>Reply-To: Loving-what-is

>To: Loving-what-is

>Subject: If someone feels stressed and hurt, it's my

>responsibility

>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:53:36 -0000

>

> > " I'm stressed, Eva! Do you know how stressed I am?! " :)

>

> " If someone feels stressed and hurt, it's my responsibility "

>

>1. Is it true?

>Well, yes, if it is because of something I did....

>Can I really know it's because of something I did? Sometimes, maybe.

>And it's my responsibility as a human being to care about my fellow

>human beings, isn't it? Is it?

>

>Whose business is it if someone else feels stressed and hurt?

>Not my business.

>Can I really know if they're feeling stressed and hurt, even if they

>tell me so?

>I guess not...

>Can I really know what's best for their path, for my path?

>No, I can't.

>So, is it my responsibility if someone else feels stressed or hurt?

>Hm, no.

>

>3. How do I react when I think the thought that it's my

>responsibility if someone else feels stressed or hurt?

>

>I feel oppressed.

>I feel guilty.

>A tightening feeling in my chest.

>I feel trapped.

>I become agitated inside.

>I feel angry.

>I blame them for feeling stressed and hurt.

>I think they use their hurt to draw attention.

>I accuse them of manipulating me.

>I think they're being ungrateful.

>I can't give them my full attention, I only listen to them

>superficially.

>I look for clues to make them happy again.

>I try to cheer them up.

>I show compassion even when I don't really feel it.

>I become phoney.

>I feel confused, not knowing what to do best.

>I feel hurt and rejected if they refused my help.

>I want them to see it my way.

>I am totally in their business and out of mine.

>

>Does the thought bring peace or stress? Stress!

>Do I see a reason to drop the thought! Yes, all of the above are

>reasons.

>

>4. Who/what would I be without the thought that it is my

>responsibility if someone feels stressed or hurt?

>

>I'd be more at peace.

>I'd be able to listen more carefully if someone felt like talking

>about it.

>If asked, I'd feel free to offer help or not.

>

>Turnarounds:

>-- It is not my responsibility if someone else feels stressed or

>hurt.

>Truer, and it is a relief!

>

>-- My thinking is responsible if I see someone else as feeling

>stressed or hurt.

>It's my story about how somebody else is feeling. It hurts when I

>believe it.

>

>-- Someone else is responsible if he/she feels stressed or hurt.

>

>That seems to be the case. They could do a worksheet on it, or not.

>But it is not my business.

>

>-- Anymore turnarounds?

>

>Thanks for listening (or not.. )

>Eva

>

_________________________________________________________________

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March 5, 2004

Good job Eva, here are a few of my thoughts....

T/A

I'm responsible (or not) for me being stressed and hurt

I'm responsible (or not) for my thinking being stressed and hurt.

Try the thought that could follow your statement - " I need to fix/help/do

something for them "

Doreen

evalobach wrote:

> " I'm stressed, Eva! Do you know how stressed I am?! " :)

" If someone feels stressed and hurt, it's my responsibility "

1. Is it true?

Well, yes, if it is because of something I did....

Can I really know it's because of something I did? Sometimes, maybe.

And it's my responsibility as a human being to care about my fellow

human beings, isn't it? Is it?

Whose business is it if someone else feels stressed and hurt?

Not my business.

Can I really know if they're feeling stressed and hurt, even if they

tell me so?

I guess not...

Can I really know what's best for their path, for my path?

No, I can't.

So, is it my responsibility if someone else feels stressed or hurt?

Hm, no.

3. How do I react when I think the thought that it's my

responsibility if someone else feels stressed or hurt?

I feel oppressed.

I feel guilty.

A tightening feeling in my chest.

I feel trapped.

I become agitated inside.

I feel angry.

I blame them for feeling stressed and hurt.

I think they use their hurt to draw attention.

I accuse them of manipulating me.

I think they're being ungrateful.

I can't give them my full attention, I only listen to them

superficially.

I look for clues to make them happy again.

I try to cheer them up.

I show compassion even when I don't really feel it.

I become phoney.

I feel confused, not knowing what to do best.

I feel hurt and rejected if they refused my help.

I want them to see it my way.

I am totally in their business and out of mine.

Does the thought bring peace or stress? Stress!

Do I see a reason to drop the thought! Yes, all of the above are

reasons.

4. Who/what would I be without the thought that it is my

responsibility if someone feels stressed or hurt?

I'd be more at peace.

I'd be able to listen more carefully if someone felt like talking

about it.

If asked, I'd feel free to offer help or not.

Turnarounds:

-- It is not my responsibility if someone else feels stressed or

hurt.

Truer, and it is a relief!

-- My thinking is responsible if I see someone else as feeling

stressed or hurt.

It's my story about how somebody else is feeling. It hurts when I

believe it.

-- Someone else is responsible if he/she feels stressed or hurt.

That seems to be the case. They could do a worksheet on it, or not.

But it is not my business.

-- Anymore turnarounds?

Thanks for listening (or not.. )

Eva

---------------------------------

March 5, 2004

Hi Eddie,

> Now, I would like to answer a previous question about core belifs.

You can

> do a hundred inquiries about hurting this person " s and that

person " s

> feelings, about feeling guilty for doing or not doing something,

and fear

> and stress over not pleasing loved ones, but if you do one inquiry

on the

> CORE BELIEF none of the others will be necessary. Your core belief

is

> probably something like: " I'll never be loved and accepted if I

don't

> continue to please people. " Stress and guilt are usually just fear

that

> we'll be rejected if we say " no " to someone or have offended them

in some

> way. A strong motivation for processing compulsive " people

pleasing " is

> that it keeps us in a negative energy state.

Thank you for this elaboration, Eddie (and for your compliment about

my work).

I couldn't find that you answered my questions, though.

However, your message brought up some new questions and my old

questions seem less relevant now.

What I understand from your message:

A core belief is a more general belief about how I think things work,

which belief becomes apparent in my individual interactions with

people around me and the world at large.

You add that undoing one core belief will free me from the stress in

all the individual instances in which this belief became apparent.

In my experience, The Work works in mysterious ways

I find that doing the work on what I understand to be core beliefs

from your explanation, does not do a lot for me, it's too abstract. I

do have a pretty lively imagination, but in this case, I can't find

the motivation to do the work on what I understand as core beliefs.

At the School we worked with core beliefs, such as " I need your

love " , or " I need to make a decision " in an Inquiry Circle. Maybe it

had to do with the time of day, but I could hardly keep my eyes open

and I had a hard time bringing any intensity into this work.

In my experience, inquiry of any stressful thought (and even of non-

stressful ones) can bring me to unsuspected places and bring unknown

territory to the surface. It doesn't matter where I start. It is

somewhat like dancin' described: " pull a thread ... see what

happens. "

You start with a toilet seat and you're amazed about what you

discover behind something so plain and ordinary and seemingly small.

My experience is similar to what dancin' is describing, although not

always as revealing.

So, if I am still understanding you correctly, it's not my way to try

to find core beliefs and work on those. I'd rather pull a thread and

see what happens. I feel it's more rewarding to me, and it allows me

to go very deep.

Going back to your core beliefs, as I understand them, I'd say that

the ultimate, or 'core' core belief would be: " life is better than

death " (or something to that effect), and that all of our fears are

offshoots of that one core belief.

I can see that getting rid of that one belief would bring wonders of

freedom.

But I can't see at the moment how one inquiry into that one could be

enough.

What's your idea?

Eva

March 5, 2004

Eva,

A core belief is just the belief you accepted as true before you accumulated

all the secondary beliefs that spouted from that one central belief. It

usually originates in childhood and we carry variations of it with us

throughout our lives. A lot of people have difficulty with this concept. So

lets just drop it. Do whatever works for you.

Love,

Eddie

>

>Reply-To: Loving-what-is

>To: Loving-what-is

>Subject: Re: If someone feels stressed and hurt, it's my

>responsibility

>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 20:47:15 -0000

>

>Hi Eddie,

>

> > Now, I would like to answer a previous question about core belifs.

>You can

> > do a hundred inquiries about hurting this person " s and that

>person " s

> > feelings, about feeling guilty for doing or not doing something,

>and fear

> > and stress over not pleasing loved ones, but if you do one inquiry

>on the

> > CORE BELIEF none of the others will be necessary. Your core belief

>is

> > probably something like: " I'll never be loved and accepted if I

>don't

> > continue to please people. " Stress and guilt are usually just fear

>that

> > we'll be rejected if we say " no " to someone or have offended them

>in some

> > way. A strong motivation for processing compulsive " people

>pleasing " is

> > that it keeps us in a negative energy state.

>

>Thank you for this elaboration, Eddie (and for your compliment about

>my work).

>

>I couldn't find that you answered my questions, though.

>However, your message brought up some new questions and my old

>questions seem less relevant now.

>

>What I understand from your message:

>

>A core belief is a more general belief about how I think things work,

>which belief becomes apparent in my individual interactions with

>people around me and the world at large.

>You add that undoing one core belief will free me from the stress in

>all the individual instances in which this belief became apparent.

>

>In my experience, The Work works in mysterious ways

>I find that doing the work on what I understand to be core beliefs

>from your explanation, does not do a lot for me, it's too abstract. I

>do have a pretty lively imagination, but in this case, I can't find

>the motivation to do the work on what I understand as core beliefs.

>

>At the School we worked with core beliefs, such as " I need your

>love " , or " I need to make a decision " in an Inquiry Circle. Maybe it

>had to do with the time of day, but I could hardly keep my eyes open

>and I had a hard time bringing any intensity into this work.

>

>In my experience, inquiry of any stressful thought (and even of non-

>stressful ones) can bring me to unsuspected places and bring unknown

>territory to the surface. It doesn't matter where I start. It is

>somewhat like dancin' described: " pull a thread ... see what

>happens. "

>You start with a toilet seat and you're amazed about what you

>discover behind something so plain and ordinary and seemingly small.

>My experience is similar to what dancin' is describing, although not

>always as revealing.

>

>So, if I am still understanding you correctly, it's not my way to try

>to find core beliefs and work on those. I'd rather pull a thread and

>see what happens. I feel it's more rewarding to me, and it allows me

>to go very deep.

>

>Going back to your core beliefs, as I understand them, I'd say that

>the ultimate, or 'core' core belief would be: " life is better than

>death " (or something to that effect), and that all of our fears are

>offshoots of that one core belief.

>I can see that getting rid of that one belief would bring wonders of

>freedom.

>But I can't see at the moment how one inquiry into that one could be

>enough.

>What's your idea?

>

>Eva

>

_________________________________________________________________

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http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx

March 5, 2004

Dear Eddie...hi...

I read your post to Eva and sat pondering...

After doing inquiry on a variety of subjects over the past few

months, I had a significant 'breakthrough' yesterday doing the work

on " Max should put the toilet lid down " .

A toilet and it's lid seems excessively trivial, insignificant, and

obvious. You hear this 'silly' thing mentioned jokingly as part of

naggy list of stereotypic complaints women have against men. It's

like the right or wrong of squeezing the toothpaste tube, etc.

....certainly not core...coundn't possibly be.

Really?

Years ago, while doing insight psychotherapy, I actually had talked

about memories, trying to deal with " core " issues from childhood

trauma; of feeling disregarded, not being listened to, traumatized,

etc...and it certainly was cathartic to go over the details...week

after diligent week, and eventually year after year. I felt

validated at least, because a compassionate therapist let me pour it

out, chaff and grain together......but I still labored under the

unrecognized and unresolved pain of those very thoughts

and " stories " . I was a trapped... a victim of my own making until I

did the work yesterday on the seemingly unrelated...trivial,

insignificant, (to some) petty and absurd toilet seat issue.

You might say was just creating " negative energy state " to start

with the silly toilet seat that has bothered me over and over. For

me it needed to be something obvious, almost tangible...my

pain/suffering at the moment most certainly APPEARED to be over the

toilet seat and my thoughts/story about it. But it wasn't...much to

my relief.

I can 'guess' at what is " core " ...but better than that, I KNOW what

hurts in the moment! What hurts is in front of my face and in my

heart right now. No matter how trivial or seemingly insignificant

it seems, that pain, at that moment is the " gift " ...it is

the 'thread' that, if pulled and pulled with care and honesty will

(in my experience so far) lead to the hidden truth of the

matter...the precise core, the point of origin. And who knows maybe

there's more yet that is even MORE 'core'. If I haven't really

gotten to the core I just bet another thread will appear. Reality is

so kind.

You wrote to Eva, " Your core belief is probably something

like... " " Probably " ...at best, is good guessing while HOPING for

the vital connection to our truth, and release from suffering.

Being intensly irked about a toilet seat, (and even better, this

specific, exact, PARTICULAR toilet seat) is a different start. It's

here, now, direct, real feeling, active rather than passive, and

less abstract than the 'probably' thing (in my present experience).

If I pull the thread of my 'here and now' thought, I begin to

unravel the story with it's many associations and ultimately the

core belief as well. No more obsessing, nor more guessing.

I inquire about the toilet seat...historic pain surfaces...I 'get

it' that I didn't/don't feel listened to and felt used as a

child...I inquire, turn it around, and the card house I had so

carefully stacked up as a child simply flattens. Max comes home,

the toilet is just a toilet seat, his socks pile are just his socks

pile, his messy stuff is just his messy stuff, etc. I am free of a

whole web of connected items. Freedom.

It seems to be very holistic and very simple to me at this point.

The parts all being essential to the whole.

Well...maybe there's not just ONE right/wrong way to skin a cat....

....prrrr.

cat

Dancin'

> > > " I'm stressed, Eva! Do you know how stressed I am?! " :)

> >

> > " If someone feels stressed and hurt, it's my responsibility "

> >

> >1. Is it true?

> >Well, yes, if it is because of something I did....

> >Can I really know it's because of something I did? Sometimes,

maybe.

> >And it's my responsibility as a human being to care about my

fellow

> >human beings, isn't it? Is it?

> >

> >Whose business is it if someone else feels stressed and hurt?

> >Not my business.

> >Can I really know if they're feeling stressed and hurt, even if

they

> >tell me so?

> >I guess not...

> >Can I really know what's best for their path, for my path?

> >No, I can't.

> >So, is it my responsibility if someone else feels stressed or

hurt?

> >Hm, no.

> >

> >3. How do I react when I think the thought that it's my

> >responsibility if someone else feels stressed or hurt?

> >

> >I feel oppressed.

> >I feel guilty.

> >A tightening feeling in my chest.

> >I feel trapped.

> >I become agitated inside.

> >I feel angry.

> >I blame them for feeling stressed and hurt.

> >I think they use their hurt to draw attention.

> >I accuse them of manipulating me.

> >I think they're being ungrateful.

> >I can't give them my full attention, I only listen to them

> >superficially.

> >I look for clues to make them happy again.

> >I try to cheer them up.

> >I show compassion even when I don't really feel it.

> >I become phoney.

> >I feel confused, not knowing what to do best.

> >I feel hurt and rejected if they refused my help.

> >I want them to see it my way.

> >I am totally in their business and out of mine.

> >

> >Does the thought bring peace or stress? Stress!

> >Do I see a reason to drop the thought! Yes, all of the above are

> >reasons.

> >

> >4. Who/what would I be without the thought that it is my

> >responsibility if someone feels stressed or hurt?

> >

> >I'd be more at peace.

> >I'd be able to listen more carefully if someone felt like talking

> >about it.

> >If asked, I'd feel free to offer help or not.

> >

> >Turnarounds:

> >-- It is not my responsibility if someone else feels stressed or

> >hurt.

> >Truer, and it is a relief!

> >

> >-- My thinking is responsible if I see someone else as feeling

> >stressed or hurt.

> >It's my story about how somebody else is feeling. It hurts when I

> >believe it.

> >

> >-- Someone else is responsible if he/she feels stressed or hurt.

> >

> >That seems to be the case. They could do a worksheet on it, or

not.

> >But it is not my business.

> >

> >-- Anymore turnarounds?

> >

> >Thanks for listening (or not.. )

> >Eva

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!

> http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

March 5, 2004

-Ah....yes Eva.....I might have read your post before I wrote mine

(boy this site is fast paced, exciting) but what you wrote resonates.

When I create a portrait I might be drawing one eye, but I see the

whole face at the same time...

is that the 'gestault'?

Eddie, thanks for your perspective!

dancin'

-- In Loving-what-is , " evalobach " <e.lobach@c...>

wrote:

> Hi Eddie,

>

> > Now, I would like to answer a previous question about core

belifs.

> You can

> > do a hundred inquiries about hurting this person " s and that

> person " s

> > feelings, about feeling guilty for doing or not doing something,

> and fear

> > and stress over not pleasing loved ones, but if you do one

inquiry

> on the

> > CORE BELIEF none of the others will be necessary. Your core

belief

> is

> > probably something like: " I'll never be loved and accepted if I

> don't

> > continue to please people. " Stress and guilt are usually just

fear

> that

> > we'll be rejected if we say " no " to someone or have offended

them

> in some

> > way. A strong motivation for processing compulsive " people

> pleasing " is

> > that it keeps us in a negative energy state.

>

> Thank you for this elaboration, Eddie (and for your compliment

about

> my work).

>

> I couldn't find that you answered my questions, though.

> However, your message brought up some new questions and my old

> questions seem less relevant now.

>

> What I understand from your message:

>

> A core belief is a more general belief about how I think things

work,

> which belief becomes apparent in my individual interactions with

> people around me and the world at large.

> You add that undoing one core belief will free me from the stress

in

> all the individual instances in which this belief became apparent.

>

> In my experience, The Work works in mysterious ways

> I find that doing the work on what I understand to be core beliefs

> from your explanation, does not do a lot for me, it's too

abstract. I

> do have a pretty lively imagination, but in this case, I can't

find

> the motivation to do the work on what I understand as core beliefs.

>

> At the School we worked with core beliefs, such as " I need your

> love " , or " I need to make a decision " in an Inquiry Circle. Maybe

it

> had to do with the time of day, but I could hardly keep my eyes

open

> and I had a hard time bringing any intensity into this work.

>

> In my experience, inquiry of any stressful thought (and even of

non-

> stressful ones) can bring me to unsuspected places and bring

unknown

> territory to the surface. It doesn't matter where I start. It is

> somewhat like dancin' described: " pull a thread ... see what

> happens. "

> You start with a toilet seat and you're amazed about what you

> discover behind something so plain and ordinary and seemingly

small.

> My experience is similar to what dancin' is describing, although

not

> always as revealing.

>

> So, if I am still understanding you correctly, it's not my way to

try

> to find core beliefs and work on those. I'd rather pull a thread

and

> see what happens. I feel it's more rewarding to me, and it allows

me

> to go very deep.

>

> Going back to your core beliefs, as I understand them, I'd say

that

> the ultimate, or 'core' core belief would be: " life is better than

> death " (or something to that effect), and that all of our fears

are

> offshoots of that one core belief.

> I can see that getting rid of that one belief would bring wonders

of

> freedom.

> But I can't see at the moment how one inquiry into that one could

be

> enough.

> What's your idea?

>

> Eva

March 5, 2004

Hi Dancin!

I think people have gotten the wrong impression about what I said. Core

beliefs are not the ONLY way to go, just a different way. I don't know how

we got so hung up on the subject.

As for your " toilet seat " epiphany, my guess is that you went from a

negative energy state to a positive one and that's what it's all about! It

feels great doesn't it? It really doesn't matter how we do it. Change the

thought, change the emotion, make a joke, play with a baby, or fall in love

with life all over again--it all takes us HIGHER.

Love ya,

Eddie

>

>Reply-To: Loving-what-is

>To: Loving-what-is

>Subject: Re: If someone feels stressed and hurt, it's my

>responsibility

>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:55:35 -0000

>

>Dear Eddie...hi...

>I read your post to Eva and sat pondering...

>

>After doing inquiry on a variety of subjects over the past few

>months, I had a significant 'breakthrough' yesterday doing the work

>on " Max should put the toilet lid down " .

>

>A toilet and it's lid seems excessively trivial, insignificant, and

>obvious. You hear this 'silly' thing mentioned jokingly as part of

>naggy list of stereotypic complaints women have against men. It's

>like the right or wrong of squeezing the toothpaste tube, etc.

>

>...certainly not core...coundn't possibly be.

>

>Really?

>

>Years ago, while doing insight psychotherapy, I actually had talked

>about memories, trying to deal with " core " issues from childhood

>trauma; of feeling disregarded, not being listened to, traumatized,

>etc...and it certainly was cathartic to go over the details...week

>after diligent week, and eventually year after year. I felt

>validated at least, because a compassionate therapist let me pour it

>out, chaff and grain together......but I still labored under the

>unrecognized and unresolved pain of those very thoughts

>and " stories " . I was a trapped... a victim of my own making until I

>did the work yesterday on the seemingly unrelated...trivial,

>insignificant, (to some) petty and absurd toilet seat issue.

>

>You might say was just creating " negative energy state " to start

>with the silly toilet seat that has bothered me over and over. For

>me it needed to be something obvious, almost tangible...my

>pain/suffering at the moment most certainly APPEARED to be over the

>toilet seat and my thoughts/story about it. But it wasn't...much to

>my relief.

>

>I can 'guess' at what is " core " ...but better than that, I KNOW what

>hurts in the moment! What hurts is in front of my face and in my

>heart right now. No matter how trivial or seemingly insignificant

>it seems, that pain, at that moment is the " gift " ...it is

>the 'thread' that, if pulled and pulled with care and honesty will

>(in my experience so far) lead to the hidden truth of the

>matter...the precise core, the point of origin. And who knows maybe

>there's more yet that is even MORE 'core'. If I haven't really

>gotten to the core I just bet another thread will appear. Reality is

>so kind.

>

>You wrote to Eva, " Your core belief is probably something

>like... " " Probably " ...at best, is good guessing while HOPING for

>the vital connection to our truth, and release from suffering.

>

>Being intensly irked about a toilet seat, (and even better, this

>specific, exact, PARTICULAR toilet seat) is a different start. It's

>here, now, direct, real feeling, active rather than passive, and

>less abstract than the 'probably' thing (in my present experience).

>

>If I pull the thread of my 'here and now' thought, I begin to

>unravel the story with it's many associations and ultimately the

>core belief as well. No more obsessing, nor more guessing.

>

>I inquire about the toilet seat...historic pain surfaces...I 'get

>it' that I didn't/don't feel listened to and felt used as a

>child...I inquire, turn it around, and the card house I had so

>carefully stacked up as a child simply flattens. Max comes home,

>the toilet is just a toilet seat, his socks pile are just his socks

>pile, his messy stuff is just his messy stuff, etc. I am free of a

>whole web of connected items. Freedom.

>

>It seems to be very holistic and very simple to me at this point.

>The parts all being essential to the whole.

>

>Well...maybe there's not just ONE right/wrong way to skin a cat....

>

>...prrrr.

>cat

>Dancin'

>

> > > > " I'm stressed, Eva! Do you know how stressed I am?! " :)

> > >

> > > " If someone feels stressed and hurt, it's my responsibility "

> > >

> > >1. Is it true?

> > >Well, yes, if it is because of something I did....

> > >Can I really know it's because of something I did? Sometimes,

>maybe.

> > >And it's my responsibility as a human being to care about my

>fellow

> > >human beings, isn't it? Is it?

> > >

> > >Whose business is it if someone else feels stressed and hurt?

> > >Not my business.

> > >Can I really know if they're feeling stressed and hurt, even if

>they

> > >tell me so?

> > >I guess not...

> > >Can I really know what's best for their path, for my path?

> > >No, I can't.

> > >So, is it my responsibility if someone else feels stressed or

>hurt?

> > >Hm, no.

> > >

> > >3. How do I react when I think the thought that it's my

> > >responsibility if someone else feels stressed or hurt?

> > >

> > >I feel oppressed.

> > >I feel guilty.

> > >A tightening feeling in my chest.

> > >I feel trapped.

> > >I become agitated inside.

> > >I feel angry.

> > >I blame them for feeling stressed and hurt.

> > >I think they use their hurt to draw attention.

> > >I accuse them of manipulating me.

> > >I think they're being ungrateful.

> > >I can't give them my full attention, I only listen to them

> > >superficially.

> > >I look for clues to make them happy again.

> > >I try to cheer them up.

> > >I show compassion even when I don't really feel it.

> > >I become phoney.

> > >I feel confused, not knowing what to do best.

> > >I feel hurt and rejected if they refused my help.

> > >I want them to see it my way.

> > >I am totally in their business and out of mine.

> > >

> > >Does the thought bring peace or stress? Stress!

> > >Do I see a reason to drop the thought! Yes, all of the above are

> > >reasons.

> > >

> > >4. Who/what would I be without the thought that it is my

> > >responsibility if someone feels stressed or hurt?

> > >

> > >I'd be more at peace.

> > >I'd be able to listen more carefully if someone felt like talking

> > >about it.

> > >If asked, I'd feel free to offer help or not.

> > >

> > >Turnarounds:

> > >-- It is not my responsibility if someone else feels stressed or

> > >hurt.

> > >Truer, and it is a relief!

> > >

> > >-- My thinking is responsible if I see someone else as feeling

> > >stressed or hurt.

> > >It's my story about how somebody else is feeling. It hurts when I

> > >believe it.

> > >

> > >-- Someone else is responsible if he/she feels stressed or hurt.

> > >

> > >That seems to be the case. They could do a worksheet on it, or

>not.

> > >But it is not my business.

> > >

> > >-- Anymore turnarounds?

> > >

> > >Thanks for listening (or not.. )

> > >Eva

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

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March 5, 2004

Hello, Eva...

>

> > " I'm stressed, Eva! Do you know how stressed I am?! " :)

>

> " If someone feels stressed and hurt, it's my responsibility "

> ...

> Turnarounds:

> -- It is not my responsibility if someone else feels stressed or

> hurt.

> Truer, and it is a relief!

>

> -- My thinking is responsible if I see someone else as feeling

> stressed or hurt.

> It's my story about how somebody else is feeling. It hurts when I

> believe it.

>

> -- Someone else is responsible if he/she feels stressed or hurt.

>

> That seems to be the case. They could do a worksheet on it, or not.

> But it is not my business.

>

> -- Anymore turnarounds?

If I feel stressed and hurt, it's my thinking's responsibility.

>

> Thanks for listening (or not.. )

Thank you for doing my Work for, and sharing it with me.

Tom

March 5, 2004

Well dancin' I like how you have explained this so well. It agrees with me!

Doreen

Re: If someone feels stressed and hurt, it's my

responsibility

Dear Eddie...hi...

I read your post to Eva and sat pondering...

After doing inquiry on a variety of subjects over the past few

months, I had a significant 'breakthrough' yesterday doing the work

on " Max should put the toilet lid down " .

A toilet and it's lid seems excessively trivial, insignificant, and

obvious. You hear this 'silly' thing mentioned jokingly as part of

naggy list of stereotypic complaints women have against men. It's

like the right or wrong of squeezing the toothpaste tube, etc.

...certainly not core...coundn't possibly be.