Re: Dreaming dancer-Kate

[Guest guest]

Hi Kate...thanks...yes, very, very good observation about kt and the

work...it's not a destination at all...just a great questioning

process that leaves me very accountable for my own experience, only

100% of the time!

I guess one of my subtle anxieties, however, is the " no right, no

wrong' thing. That just doesn't jibe with me yet. I've been

reading all the posts today on the issue about the

patient/psychiatrist abuse issue. It's a lively discussion going on

and I think, " If being unconditionally loving to any given

perpatrator DOESN'T mean condoning or enabling hurtful acts of any

kind that they do, then why do we love reality if that's what

reality is (the violent/abusive/hurtful acts ???) But, if inquiry

work means just relieving suffering by mind games...(and hey, it

does 'look' like mind games) why should anyone bother doing any

actual, literal changing at all? We should just go on permanenant

mental vacation and let anyone who wants to, abuse the crap out of

us...or justify ourselves abusing anyone else we want to. Something

seems to be just a bit wacky...then the black hole appears

.....and

I just get a zinger going in my head over this....but don't take me

too seriously I'm going to settle down and actually do the work here

shortly.

I think I'll lay down for a minute...sigh...thanks so much.

dancin'

> Great work Dancer.--- Shame is a big one, isn't it? And

criticism. I

> also have thought a lot about the cult issue. One way in which

> 's work differs from many other self help fads is that she

> doesn't give any answers. Her work is not about answers. It's

about

> questions. At least that's my story about it. She is teaching us

> skills, not a belief system. I think. In fact she is doing just

the

> opposite of teaching a belief system - she is suggesting we

question

> our beliefs. I guess it appeals to me because I'm a lawyer and

spend

> my life asking other people questions. It's been a wonderful

> experience to question myself. I don't know if that is reassuring

to

> you. It is to me.

>

> But I also hear you that you are concerned with your feelings of

> shame or being wrong, not so much with the reality of and

her

> work. And I think you are doing a great job. Keep going.

>

> Kate

>

> > -Dear nne...I tried something tricky with the computer and

> sent

> > my message before finishing an inquiry response to your

excellent

> > suggestions...so I'll try this again...

> >

> > > Your feelings are telling you something is here...*I could be

> > wrong in

> > > being naked and sincere*....inquire into that.... AND even

when

> you

> > > are being naked and sincere with your friends and they are

> > > critical....how do you feel? inquire into that....what do you

want

> > > from your friends?

> > > What would make you happy? inquire into that too...

> >

> > OK...This is great stuff...

> >

> > I could be wrong...in being naked, sincere, and whoah believing

in

> > something so different as this inquiry process in the first

place.

> > (that just surfaced)

> >

> > Is it true that I could be wrong? yes

> > Can I absolutely KNOW that I could be wrong...no.

> >

> > How do I feel when I think that thought, " I could be wrong, etc " ?

> >

> > " Being wrong " might seem like a different subject but it's in

> > the " BEING wrong " ....I've been made to feel " wrong to the core "

(by

> > others and by myself) time after time...loads of shame...that

it's

> > easy to question my experience with this too. I don't always

trust

> > my process, my instincts, my ideas. I scare me with doubt.

> >

> > I worry....worry that inquiry is just another fad, a phase, a

> > gimmick...many others came floating through in the 80's and 90's

> and

> > some seemed to be shams for the sake of making money and

notoriety

> > for the leaders....I worry that my religious convictions will be

> > shamed...I worry that this is a pseudo religion...people

> practically

> > worship kt...and I am getting so intense about doing it

myself...I

> > think it as my anwser to prayers...but...but...but...am I

blindly

> > caught up in a bit of bright light that might turn out to

contain

> > something untrue? yes I worry and on top of that I feel dumb as

> dirt

> > when I try to share it with others when the sharing turns

awkward.

> > Then it really rankles the doubting.

> >

> > my brain is wandering dangerously into my real fears...

> >

> > am I going to come back from the School as some kind of a cult

nut?

> >

> > hahahahaha

> >

> > Can I think of a reason to drop the thought, " I could be wrong,

etc "

> > yes...

> > Can I think of a stress-free reason to keep the thought? No

> >

> > How would I be without the thought, " I could be wrong,etc "

> > I would relish this whole process, recognizing it's power and

the

> > sanity I am enjoying by becoming clearer and safer in my own

> thought

> > processes and feeling happier in my own skin. I would be

satisfied

> > just to learn, and learn, and learn untill it REALLY

feels 'right'

> > to share the Work with others...or I would just share it and

feel

> > fine no matter the response. I would trust my process, trust

> > God...who has led me to this...sort things out and trust my

> > intuition about the Work.

> >

> > I could be wrong...in being naked, sincere, and whoah believing

in

> > something so different as this inquiry process.

> >

> > Turn it around

> >

> > I can't be wrong in being naked, sincere, and whoah!...

believing

> in

> > something so different as this inquiry process.

> >

> >

> > hmmmmm...thank you nne I'm sure I'll be working on many

more

> > aspects of this yet...but this is a great start...thank you!

[Guest guest]

dancin2you wrote:

--------------

then why do we love reality if that's what

reality is (the violent/abusive/hurtful acts ???) But, if inquiry work means

just relieving suffering by mind games...(and hey, it

does 'look' like mind games) why should anyone bother doing any

actual, literal changing at all? We should just go on permanenant

mental vacation and let anyone who wants to, abuse the crap out of us...or

justify ourselves abusing anyone else we want to. Something seems to be just a

bit wacky...then the black hole appears

-----------------

Funnily I was thinking about the same thing tonight. The following poem came to

mind as I find it hard to explain. What I know is that if someone kicks me

under the table I might be OK with it if there is a good reason e.g. maybe they

got stung by a bee and their leg slipped. I do know I will move my leg out of

the way and depending on whether I believe their story or not, I might never sit

with them again. I will investigate any stressful thoughts such as " they

shouldn't have done that " , " I should have kicked them back " , " she's a sadistic

bitch " because this is what is playing in my mind long after the kick has

stopped hurting.

A Portrait in Progress by Portia

(An autobiography in 5 short chapters)

Chapter I

I walk down the street.

There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

I fall in.

I am lost...I am helpless.

It isn't my fault.

It takes forever to find a way out.

Chapter II

I walk down the same street.

There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

I pretend I don't see it.

I fall in again.

I can't believe I am in the same place, but, it isn't my fault.

It still takes a long time to get out.

Chapter III

I walk down the same street.

There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

I see it is there.

I still fall in ... it's a habit.

My eyes are open.

I know where I am.

It is my fault.

I get out immediately.

Chapter IV

I walk down the same street.

There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

I walk around it.

Chapter V

I walk down another street.

Doreen

[Guest guest]

Doreen,

thank you friend...I laughed when I read the poem...It's been a long

time since I first read it and yes it is a great keeper. The person

that must be " right " will just keep falling into that hole...it's

the holes fault for being there in my way, after all I! didn't put

it there....who the h__ made this @($* & ^@ hole anyway?!!

The humble person, the wise person...or, like myself, the one that

is just hurting enough, will examine their thinking, their habits,

their options and risk making new choices.

Your 'kick under the table' is also great....it reminds me of s

story about the " man " who " peed on the toilet " in the ladies room.

It's so much about the mistaken thinkin' of things....with the

resulting blessing and opportunity to inquire.

" nomistake "

dancin'

> --------------

> then why do we love reality if that's what

> reality is (the violent/abusive/hurtful acts ???) But, if inquiry

work means just relieving suffering by mind games...(and hey, it

> does 'look' like mind games) why should anyone bother doing any

> actual, literal changing at all? We should just go on permanenant

> mental vacation and let anyone who wants to, abuse the crap out of

us...or justify ourselves abusing anyone else we want to. Something

seems to be just a bit wacky...then the black hole appears

>

> -----------------

> Funnily I was thinking about the same thing tonight. The

following poem came to mind as I find it hard to explain. What I

know is that if someone kicks me under the table I might be OK with

it if there is a good reason e.g. maybe they got stung by a bee and

their leg slipped. I do know I will move my leg out of the way and

depending on whether I believe their story or not, I might never sit

with them again. I will investigate any stressful thoughts such

as " they shouldn't have done that " , " I should have kicked them

back " , " she's a sadistic bitch " because this is what is playing in

my mind long after the kick has stopped hurting.

>

> A Portrait in Progress by Portia

> (An autobiography in 5 short chapters)

> Chapter I

> I walk down the street.

>

> There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

>

> I fall in.

>

> I am lost...I am helpless.

>

> It isn't my fault.

>

> It takes forever to find a way out.

>

> Chapter II

> I walk down the same street.

>

> There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

>

> I pretend I don't see it.

>

> I fall in again.

>

> I can't believe I am in the same place, but, it isn't my fault.

>

> It still takes a long time to get out.

>

> Chapter III

> I walk down the same street.

>

> There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

>

> I see it is there.

>

> I still fall in ... it's a habit.

>

> My eyes are open.

>

> I know where I am.

>

> It is my fault.

>

> I get out immediately.

>

> Chapter IV

> I walk down the same street.

>

> There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.

>

> I walk around it.

>

> Chapter V

> I walk down another street.

>

>

>

> Doreen

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear dancing,

> I guess one of my subtle anxieties, however, is the " no right, no

> wrong' thing. That just doesn't jibe with me yet. I've been

> reading all the posts today on the issue about the

> patient/psychiatrist abuse issue. It's a lively discussion going on

> and I think,

> " If being unconditionally loving to any given

> perpatrator DOESN'T mean condoning or enabling hurtful acts of any

> kind that they do, then why do we love reality if that's what

> reality is (the violent/abusive/hurtful acts ???)

> But, if inquiry work means just relieving suffering by mind

> games...(and hey, it

> does 'look' like mind games) why should anyone bother doing any

> actual, literal changing at all? We should just go on permanenant

> mental vacation and let anyone who wants to, abuse the crap out of

> us...or justify ourselves abusing anyone else we want to.

One night I woke up and wanted to go to my wife to sleep next to her in

her room. On my way there, it occured to me to ask myself: " Should I go

there, or should I not? " , since I did not know if she would approve. So

I questioned it. " I should go. Is this really true? " And I realized

that I could not know. Whatever I would do was to become what is. There

are no mistakes.

Later I heard this phrase from , too ;-)

It is about having the certainty that we can not do anything wrong.

This gives a great confidence. Fear leaves. Clarity comes. When there

are no errors to make, you can act like your true nature, which is

love.

There is no one to hurt, but ourselves. There is no other option.

We love reality, because it hurts if we do not. Everyone knows it, but

sometimes we forget. When we do, we fight reality, we try to prove God

wrong. We want to prove existence wrong. There is no way to win this.

Realizing truth, is love, peace, the end of suffering.

Take care,

[Guest guest]

> ...

> I guess one of my subtle anxieties, however, is the " no right, no

> wrong' thing. That just doesn't jibe with me yet.

Good. It shouldn't... until it does, if it ever does.

> ... I've been

> reading all the posts today on the issue about the

> patient/psychiatrist abuse issue. It's a lively discussion going on

> and I think, " If being unconditionally loving to any given

> perpatrator DOESN'T mean condoning or enabling hurtful acts of any

> kind that they do, then why do we love reality if that's what

> reality is (the violent/abusive/hurtful acts ???)

When you touch a hot stove and get burned and pull your hand away, do

you blame the stove for being violent or abusive or hurtful? Do you

stop loving reality because a hot stove is part of it?

The perpetrator is just a hot stove eye (it seems to me). If you hang

around with him (whether by choice or otherwise), you get burned.

Everybody does their job. The hot stove's job is to burn things. The

perpetrator's job is gratify himself at others' expense, until he

doesn't. That doesn't make it " right " or " okay " that people get burned

or abused. It's just that I find it painful to argue that something

" shouldn't " happen, when it clearly does.

> But, if inquiry

> work means just relieving suffering by mind games...(and hey, it

> does 'look' like mind games) why should anyone bother doing any

> actual, literal changing at all? We should just go on permanenant

> mental vacation and let anyone who wants to, abuse the crap out of

> us...or justify ourselves abusing anyone else we want to. Something

> seems to be just a bit wacky...then the black hole appears

What do you mean by " actual, literal changing " ? What change can I make

that is not in the mind? What is there besides a " mind game " (i.e., a

story)? My entire universe consists of my stories. The only changes I

can make (it appears to me) are in my stories. One story I might want

to change under certain circumstances is the one I have about who I

live with.

And I don't mean to be denying or belittling the experience of those

who have suffered abuse. I'm sharing what seems to be the case for me

today. What I say may not be true for anyone else. It may not be true

for me tomorrow.

Thank you for your questions and the opportunity for me to look at my

answers for me, Dancer.

Tom