Re: thinking about The School in june

[Guest guest]

Kristi - You are courageous to keep working. Your questions are hard

to answer. All I can think of is to tell you of my experiences. I

have felt despair in my life. In the last few years I have finally

seen that despair lift and it hasn't returned for a long time. My

story about how that happened is that I was ready for it to happen

and I found people to help me who were able to help me. I also have

found that finding the right medication has helped me to get to a

place where I can do this kind of work. I am hopeful that I will be

able to cut the meds eventually. And doing The Work has helped to

loosen the ties to a lot of the stories that held me in depression.

There is my story. My other story is that if you keep working as you

have you will find a way out. Lots of love and support, Kate

> Hello Workers. Or are we the Workees?

>

> Well I'm considering going to the school in June, anyone else for

the first time?

>

> I'm just wondering though if it will feel like another big waste

of money just like most of the retreats and therapies I've done.

>

> Studying The Work and working with has been great but I

always seem to just get temporary relief from any technique I try and

> then my despair and sickness comes back 10-fold....knocks me down

and makes it so hard to persist with hope that I will ever feel

> well.

>

> Any thoughts? Happiness to all,

> Kristi

[Guest guest]

Kristi,

Hi there. I really relate to your many attempts to heal through

workshops etc. I call it my search for the Holy Grail of health

(physical and mental).

In fact, " I want it and I want it now " has been my consuming

obsession because of so much pain. When " it " (meaning freedom from

depression, dissappintment and anger) doesn't appear to come in a

given way after a trying a given formula, book, workshop or

whatever, I feel like I've been cheated, and yep, " It didn't work,

it'll never work, I'm stuck forever, nobody will ever help me, I can

never trust anyone " ...all that get's revamped in my head.

It's quite a set-up to have expectations like that for a given,

highly desired and very noble RESULT and then sink into

dissapointment or despair later.

I also wonder just how much I have managed to sabotage potentially

useful experiences in order to keep my old patterns and MY

irrational thinking alive and intact. Anything familar seems to be

preferred over the risk of change. Change for many people seems to

indicate flaws and flaws bring up shame..and shame provokes defenses

at the core level. It's quite a merry-go-round from personal

history.

You might want to play with,

" I have to have a guarantee that the School will heal me before I

will commit "

" If other workshops didn't help me, The School won't either "

" I'm too damaged for anything to help me, including the School "

Since I am already committed to going to Ca in March, I also have

many things popping up about it...in fact it seems like a hey-day

for self-doubt and " other " -doubt...all kinds of trust

issues...security issues, etc are surfacing...what an opportunity to

go deep right now even, and at the school maybe go much deeper than

the intensive....all the way. It means total

submersion...surrender...

" I have to have control to be safe and to heal " ...that just came up

as an inquiry item.

..... " Step into the darkness and see if the light follows " ...that's

been my motto for some time now when it comes trying

again....risking a promising, but non-guaranteed possibility.

Besides...how can you know if the School will make a difference

unless you go??? Anything anyone says about it will just be their

opinion...their experience. Your's is yet to be. If you are

wanting to be coaxed, re-assured or convinced there is more work to

do. What part of you might be wanting to sabotage this because of

past experiences? What part wants to be coaxed so you have

something to resist in the name of being right (I'm referring to the

old familiar thinking that's in place) What are you really scared

about?? If the secret, deeper part of you is convinced nothing will

help, then it won't...and you will be 'right' again my friend.

Sheez where is this coming from,these are the things I will go on to

ask myself as soon as I am done here.

Thanks for your post, what a blessing.

always

dancin'

> Hello Workers. Or are we the Workees?

>

> Well I'm considering going to the school in June, anyone else for

the first time?

>

> I'm just wondering though if it will feel like another big waste

of money just like most of the retreats and therapies I've done.

>

> Studying The Work and working with has been great but I

always seem to just get temporary relief from any technique I try

and

> then my despair and sickness comes back 10-fold....knocks me down

and makes it so hard to persist with hope that I will ever feel

> well.

>

> Any thoughts? Happiness to all,

> Kristi

[Guest guest]

Kristi,

I can't tell you how the school would be for you. I can only tell you that for

me the first time I went to the school was quite a challenge financially.

However I went and to me it was worth every penny and more. It was, and still

is in the remembering, an experience that I could not put a price on now.

Doreen

thinking about The School in june

Hello Workers. Or are we the Workees?

Well I'm considering going to the school in June, anyone else for the first

time?

I'm just wondering though if it will feel like another big waste of money just

like most of the retreats and therapies I've done.

Studying The Work and working with has been great but I always seem to

just get temporary relief from any technique I try and

then my despair and sickness comes back 10-fold....knocks me down and makes it

so hard to persist with hope that I will ever feel

well.

Any thoughts? Happiness to all,

Kristi

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Dancin

You gave really wonderfully practical feedback to Kristi on her

doubt about attending the School in June. What insight!!!

I share Kristi's concern since I will be attending the School in

March. I have many doubts. I guess now is as good a time to start

working as any!

Thanks again!!

Randy

> > Hello Workers. Or are we the Workees?

> >

> > Well I'm considering going to the school in June, anyone else

for

> the first time?

> >

> > I'm just wondering though if it will feel like another big

waste

> of money just like most of the retreats and therapies I've done.

> >

> > Studying The Work and working with has been great but I

> always seem to just get temporary relief from any technique I try

> and

> > then my despair and sickness comes back 10-fold....knocks me

down

> and makes it so hard to persist with hope that I will ever feel

> > well.

> >

> > Any thoughts? Happiness to all,

> > Kristi

[Guest guest]

Randy,

A wise old man once told me something when I was being fearful of risking.

He said, " Just stick your neck out and see if it gets chopped off. " We

laughed and then I made the decision to move forward in my life.

Eddie

>

>Reply-To: Loving-what-is

>To: Loving-what-is

>Subject: Re: thinking about The School in june

>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:59:00 -0000

>

>Hi Dancin

>You gave really wonderfully practical feedback to Kristi on her

>doubt about attending the School in June. What insight!!!

>

>I share Kristi's concern since I will be attending the School in

>March. I have many doubts. I guess now is as good a time to start

>working as any!

>

>Thanks again!!

>

>Randy

>

>

> > > Hello Workers. Or are we the Workees?

> > >

> > > Well I'm considering going to the school in June, anyone else

>for

> > the first time?

> > >

> > > I'm just wondering though if it will feel like another big

>waste

> > of money just like most of the retreats and therapies I've done.

> > >

> > > Studying The Work and working with has been great but I

> > always seem to just get temporary relief from any technique I try

> > and

> > > then my despair and sickness comes back 10-fold....knocks me

>down

> > and makes it so hard to persist with hope that I will ever feel

> > > well.

> > >

> > > Any thoughts? Happiness to all,

> > > Kristi

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

--- Dancin'

I'm new to the group and also thinking about going to the school in

June, but I'm worried that I might be getting myself into a " cult "

situation. I'm getting scared. Do you have any thoughts on that?

In Loving-what-is , " dancin2you " <ut_artpro@h...>

wrote:

> Kristi,

>

> Hi there. I really relate to your many attempts to heal through

> workshops etc. I call it my search for the Holy Grail of health

> (physical and mental).

> In fact, " I want it and I want it now " has been my consuming

> obsession because of so much pain. When " it " (meaning freedom from

> depression, dissappintment and anger) doesn't appear to come in a

> given way after a trying a given formula, book, workshop or

> whatever, I feel like I've been cheated, and yep, " It didn't work,

> it'll never work, I'm stuck forever, nobody will ever help me, I

can

> never trust anyone " ...all that get's revamped in my head.

>

> It's quite a set-up to have expectations like that for a given,

> highly desired and very noble RESULT and then sink into

> dissapointment or despair later.

>

> I also wonder just how much I have managed to sabotage potentially

> useful experiences in order to keep my old patterns and MY

> irrational thinking alive and intact. Anything familar seems to be

> preferred over the risk of change. Change for many people seems to

> indicate flaws and flaws bring up shame..and shame provokes

defenses

> at the core level. It's quite a merry-go-round from personal

> history.

>

> You might want to play with,

>

> " I have to have a guarantee that the School will heal me before I

> will commit "

>

> " If other workshops didn't help me, The School won't either "

>

> " I'm too damaged for anything to help me, including the School "

>

> Since I am already committed to going to Ca in March, I also have

> many things popping up about it...in fact it seems like a hey-day

> for self-doubt and " other " -doubt...all kinds of trust

> issues...security issues, etc are surfacing...what an opportunity

to

> go deep right now even, and at the school maybe go much deeper than

> the intensive....all the way. It means total

> submersion...surrender...

>

> " I have to have control to be safe and to heal " ...that just came up

> as an inquiry item.

>

> .... " Step into the darkness and see if the light follows " ...that's

> been my motto for some time now when it comes trying

> again....risking a promising, but non-guaranteed possibility.

>

> Besides...how can you know if the School will make a difference

> unless you go??? Anything anyone says about it will just be their

> opinion...their experience. Your's is yet to be. If you are

> wanting to be coaxed, re-assured or convinced there is more work to

> do. What part of you might be wanting to sabotage this because of

> past experiences? What part wants to be coaxed so you have

> something to resist in the name of being right (I'm referring to

the

> old familiar thinking that's in place) What are you really scared

> about?? If the secret, deeper part of you is convinced nothing

will

> help, then it won't...and you will be 'right' again my friend.

>

> Sheez where is this coming from,these are the things I will go on

to

> ask myself as soon as I am done here.

>

> Thanks for your post, what a blessing.

>

> always

> dancin'

>

>

>

>

>

> > Hello Workers. Or are we the Workees?

> >

> > Well I'm considering going to the school in June, anyone else for

> the first time?

> >

> > I'm just wondering though if it will feel like another big waste

> of money just like most of the retreats and therapies I've done.

> >

> > Studying The Work and working with has been great but I

> always seem to just get temporary relief from any technique I try

> and

> > then my despair and sickness comes back 10-fold....knocks me down

> and makes it so hard to persist with hope that I will ever feel

> > well.

> >

> > Any thoughts? Happiness to all,

> > Kristi

[Guest guest]

> --- Dancin'

> I'm new to the group and also thinking about going to the school in

> June, but I'm worried that I might be getting myself into a " cult "

> situation. I'm getting scared. Do you have any thoughts on that?

>

>

--this was a good one, thanks much.

I think yes, it might be a cult. I went to a weekend intensive once

and part of me was secretly doing the old " roll eye " at times---but

alot of it totally blew me away. I have been doing the work for

about three years, and while I don't think I will ever attend the

School, I have bought a couple of copies of the CD's (gave them away)

and other tapes/CD's, have the book, and I do the Work every day. So

I am clearly a member of the cult, especially since I don't mind the

fact that the Work seems to have taken up residence in my thinking. I

am glad to call myself a Bliss Ninny. I try to be respectful of my

family and friends but secretly I have this intense desire to make

them experience what I experience with the work--I think it might be

just good manners that keeps me from prosletyzing my butt off all day

long.

Yet I know that there are others out there who have taken more steps

into it than I, perhaps " true " Bliss Ninnies, while I use that term

sort of ironically, sort of like a buying a logo baseball cap or

something. I guess I am not completely cultified.

I guess my point is that even though it might be a cult, I think it

offers you the possibility of taking it at your own pace, and even

exiting if need be, which is not very cultish. And maybe you won't

want to exit, in which case, welcome to the cult.

[Guest guest]

Thank you. Smiling.

" So I am clearly a member of the cult, especially since I don't mind

the

> fact that the Work seems to have taken up residence in my thinking.

I

> am glad to call myself a Bliss Ninny. I try to be respectful of my

> family and friends but secretly I have this intense desire to make

> them experience what I experience with the work--I think it might

be just good manners that keeps me from prosletyzing my butt off all

day long. "

[Guest guest]

Hi Singingcardinal....thanks for your post...and all that came after.

I did appreciate and (I think) understand your question and with so

much response (I've never seen so much activity in one day), perhaps

your questions about cult' has been adressed quite fully.

as for my thoughts at this time....

Ok, I am up on all the posts on Tue, I go to work for one day, ONE

DAY...I come back this morning, and what do I fine??? THREE AND A

HALF HOURS of reading to catch up on what everyone's been

writing!!!....OH MY HECK....we have the esoterics, we have the

philosophers (brain cell exploding-wow), we have the cultists

(toungue in cheek), we have the soap boxers, we have the sillies,

the arguers, the complainers, we have the evangelists (of sort) we

have the hunters, the gatherers, the rescuers and the attackers, we

have the doubters and the believers....we have the confused, the

enlighted,and the ultimate clients and the ultimate therapists

Haha. Have I missed anyone here? (labels are only that BTW)

I really have never found anything so dynamic, so challenging, so

heart wrenching (almost), so funny, .....so INTIMATE as the overall

nature of this bulletin board.

It reminds me of my own family....one doctor, one bar tender, one

teacher's aid, one artist/teacher, one Harley motorcycle

salesperson, one iron worker.

But I would never call this my " family " ...ho no, relax guys, I'm not

going there....

I do consider it, after participating for only a few of weeks, a

group of very intimate and endearing friends...even the ones that

come across like little porquipines.

It has stretched my brain considerably. I have received profoundly

responsible and kind and challenging responses to my posts. I have

noticed that these, and all the other dozens, actually hundreds, of

posts and responses between people have helped me accelerate my own

process.

I am a work in progress (small w).....the site and The Work is a

great vehicle for me to facilitate that. I feel that I am in the

drivers seat all the time, even when I invite others to sit beside

me and assist me to get where I'm going (envision the drivers ed

cars with their dual sets of brakes if you will).

After over 20 years in and out of insight therapy (and with a great

professional), I am going at a speed that I find thrilling. Not

that my jerky ride earlier wasn't exactly what I needed at the time,

but I am up for this pace. I loooove it. I can see and feel

the " scales " falling off my eyes. There have been so many layers

(of the scales) that I can hardly imagine what Reality is REally

like. So far this taste of freedom is great, in fact it's

absolutely delicious.

I confess that I'm ravenously hungry for more....my soul longs for

love truth, freedom. I encourage my doubts and fears to surface so

that I may wrestle and reason with them, in hopes of releasing

them.

I once participated in a custody action that required I take some

psych tests. The evaluator showed me some results that were

puzzling. He said that my 'intelligence' score was very high, but

my corresponding 'abstract reasoning skills were dramatically lower

than one would expect. One think I have noticed since starting the

work in December, is that, at least on occasions I feel mentally

much more clear...cetainly much less depressed/anxious.

I have very much enjoyed the freedom and encouragement to be bold,

open and inquisitive on this site. I am learning from the " ping-

pong " responses back and forth by others. I constant am reflecting

on all the input.

I don't think I need to say anything about cults. I will definitely

be happy to respond after the School...hmm...well who knows what I

will be doing after the School.

In retrospective, my life has been (in some important ways)a broken

record of repeated experiences based in what I now see as very

suspicious thinking.

> > > Hello Workers. Or are we the Workees?

> > >

> > > Well I'm considering going to the school in June, anyone else

for

> > the first time?

> > >

> > > I'm just wondering though if it will feel like another big

waste

> > of money just like most of the retreats and therapies I've

done.

> > >

> > > Studying The Work and working with has been great but I

> > always seem to just get temporary relief from any technique I

try

> > and

> > > then my despair and sickness comes back 10-fold....knocks me

down

> > and makes it so hard to persist with hope that I will ever feel

> > > well.

> > >

> > > Any thoughts? Happiness to all,

> > > Kristi

[Guest guest]

Hi Singingcardinal....thanks for your post...and all that came after.

I did appreciate it and (I think) I understand your question but

with so much response (I've never seen so much activity in one day),

perhaps your questions about cult' has been adressed quite fully.

as for my thoughts at this time....

Ok, I am up on all the posts on Tue, I go to work for one day, ONE

DAY...I come back this morning, and what do I find??? THREE AND A

HALF HOURS of reading to catch up on what everyone's been

writing!!!....OH MY HECK....we have the esoterics, we have the

philosophers (brain cell exploding-wow), we have the cultists

(toungue in cheek), we have the soap boxers, we have the sillies,

the arguers, the complainers, we have the evangelists (of sort) we

have the hunters, the gatherers, the rescuers and the attackers, we

have the doubters and the believers....we have the confused, the

enlighted,and the ultimate clients and the ultimate therapists

Haha. Have I missed anyone here? (labels are only that BTW) And

having said that I love and appreciate you all...

I really have never found anything so dynamic, so challenging, so

heart wrenching, so funny, .....so INTIMATE as the overall nature of

this bulletin board. It is life...from one end to the other...on

paper...cyberspace paper of course.

The diversity reminds me of my own family....one doctor, one bar

tender, one teacher's aid, one artist/teacher, one Harley motorcycle

salesperson, one iron worker.

But I would never call this my " family " ...ho no, relax guys, I'm not

going there....

I do consider it, after participating for only a few of weeks, a

group of very intimate and endearing friends...even the ones that

come across like little porquipines.

There have been moments I just wanted to invite everyone over for

hot chocolate and brownies and soak in the hot tub for a few

hours....let the snowflakes fall on our faces and relax....not

think, just be. (is that possible?)

Nevertheless, the LWIMB (Loving What Is MEssage Board) has stretched

my brain considerably. I have received profoundly responsible,

intelligent, kind and challenging responses to my posts. I have

noticed that these, and all the other dozens, actually hundreds, of

posts and responses between people have helped me accelerate my own

process. What an education!!

I am a work in progress (small w) trying to rediscover my actual

perfection.....the site and The Work is a great vehicle for me to

facilitate that. I feel that I am in the drivers seat all the time,

even when I invite others to sit beside me and assist me in getting

where I'm going (envision the drivers ed. cars if you will). And I

say that in full light of my notion about 'what if I come back from

the school as some kind of cult nut' (I was laughing when I wrote

that BTW)

After over 20 years in and out of insight therapy (and with a great

professional assisting me), I am now going at a speed that I find so

much more effective...and that is simply thrilling. Not that my

jerky stop and go ride earlier wasn't exactly what I needed at the

time, but I am up for this pace now and I relish it. I can see and

feel the " scales " falling from my eyes so to speak. There have been

so many layers (of those scales) that I can hardly imagine what

Reality REally is like. So far this taste of freedom is great, in

fact it's absolutely delicious.

I confess that I'm ravenously hungry for more....my soul longs for

love truth, freedom. ...so... I encourage my doubts and fears to

surface here, so that I may wrestle and reason with them, in hopes

of releasing them.

I once participated in a custody action that required taking some

psych tests. The evaluator showed me some puzzling results. He

said that my 'intelligence' score was very high, but my

corresponding 'abstract reasoning skills' were dramatically lower

than one would expect. I wondered what that meant. When I pondered

it, I could look back at a number of traumatic incidences as a child

when injuries could have accounted for that. And it (confusion) did

show up in various and troublesome ways over the years. I felt

flawed most of my life because I would become so 'dithered' at

times...(the stereotypic 'spacey' artist).

I never stopped trying to figure it out...sort things out...why why

why....why do I do this, why did this happen...but often it just

seamed like I was on the playground stuck on the spinning merry-go-

round.

Since starting the work in December, I have noticed that, at least

on occasions I feel mentally much more clear...cetainly much less

depressed/anxious. I am indeed a happy camper compared to six months

ago. I get confused at times, but I do not dispair...I just do the

work, and study the work via observation of this site and through

s tapes & CD's

I have very much enjoyed the freedom and encouragement here to be

bold, open and inquisitive. I am learning a lot from the " ping-

pong " responses back and forth by others. I constant am reflecting

on all the input. People are so similar, yet so diverse.

It will be most interesting to experience depth and intensity by

being at the school. I have reconciled my worries about cults and

criticism of my particular religious flavor. It seems, that the

interchanges on the web here encourage and allow for true

individuality and liberating self examination with the full support

of some very fine human beans. Thank you one and all.

smiling and still

dancin'

ps....Tom...I'm guessing the banter on the site leads and inspires

people to do a lot of private inquiry without posting it.

love and thanks so much for all you do.

I don't think I need to say anything about cults. I will definitely

be happy to respond after the School...hmm...well who knows what I

will be doing after the School.

In retrospective, my life has been (in some important ways)a broken

record of repeated experiences based in what I now see as very

suspicious thinking.

> > > Hello Workers. Or are we the Workees?

> > >

> > > Well I'm considering going to the school in June, anyone else

for

> > the first time?

> > >

> > > I'm just wondering though if it will feel like another big

waste

> > of money just like most of the retreats and therapies I've

done.

> > >

> > > Studying The Work and working with has been great but I

> > always seem to just get temporary relief from any technique I

try

> > and

> > > then my despair and sickness comes back 10-fold....knocks me

down

> > and makes it so hard to persist with hope that I will ever feel

> > > well.

> > >

> > > Any thoughts? Happiness to all,

> > > Kristi