Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 > Here's the one I have most trouble with. should not have > molested me. On one level - no question, he should not have molested > me. It was illegal, unethical, exploitative and more. But in the > world, it doesn't help me to hold that belief. So, I'm going > to try to go through the questions and see what happens. > > should not have molested me. Is it true? > > It did happen. It was wrong. > > should not have molested me. Can you absolutely know that it's > true? hmmm > > Can you really know what is best for his or your path? Can you > absolutely know you would have been happier if it hadn't happened? > > No, I can't - how could I. I'm not god. If reality is god then it > should have happened because it really did happen and so there is the > reality of it. hmmm > > How do you react when you think the thought that should never > have molested me? > > angry hurt righteous viscious I want to hit him with a 2x4. My > stomach clenches, my breathing gets shorter and faster, my heart > starts to beat, shaking, foot bouncing - stressed. How do you treat > others when you think that thought? Agressively. Defensively. with > a grrrr. How do you treat yourself when you think the thought that > he shouldn't have done that? I shut down and close myself off and go > back to that time and re-feel the pain. I am right there with the > pain searing through me. The pain of betrayal. It shoots through my > body. My shoulders hunch. I can't look people in the eye. I begin > to hate myself because I know that I wanted it to happen. Dear , I have never done work with someone who has been molested but this made me look twice...what do you mean by *I wanted it to happen?* Did you love him? Did you trust him? What happened? You were 17 or 19 and fell in love with him....was it really molesting...and I'm not saying it wasn't...I'm just asking.... How do you feel when you believe that you should not have loved this man and he should not have loved you? please forgive me if I am too bold in my questions.... your work is wonderful love, nne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 > > Dear , > > I have never done work with someone who has been molested but this > made me look twice...what do you mean by *I wanted it to happen?* > > Did you love him? Did you trust him? What happened? You were 17 or 19 > and fell in love with him....was it really molesting...and I'm not > saying it wasn't...I'm just asking.... > > How do you feel when you believe that you should not have loved this > man and he should not have loved you? > > please forgive me if I am too bold in my questions.... > > your work is wonderful > > love, > nne nne - Not too bold at all. I wouldn't have written if I were feeling private about this. He was my psychiatrist and I was in therapy with him. Most therapy patients are in love with their therapists at some point - it's called transferance and it's what is supposed to happen. I have done that with every therapist I have seen since then. It's the shrink's job to not let anything happen and to help the person work through these feelings. It doesn't matter how old the person is, but I was very young and emotionally unstable and vulnerable. My love for him was only about his being my therapist - a projection of my needs. It had nothing to do with him as a person. I trusted him to know how to help me as my therapist. He betrayed that trust. Most victims of abuse have mixed feelings about their abusers. It is a very confusing situation. From a therapy point of view these statements are all true. You might say that it is my story and I'm going to hold on to that because it's a set of beliefs that work for me. From a point of view, it's different because the work is about my stressful thoughts. If I have successfully done the work, I think I can hold the above thoughts and see that I am no longer angry or stressed by them. So, that's my story about what happened. Does it make any sense to you? It is complicated and it is the hardest part of the work for me - working on things that I believe are wrong and I don't want to give up that belief because it gives a structure for my life. But I do want to lose the stress that comes with those thoughts. I don't exactly understand how sees this kind of thing, but I guess that's her business. Thanks for the thoughts. It has helped me to work through this. Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Dear , Thank you for the explanation...I didn't know what transference is was...you are my teacher! So you were looking for love... Sometimes I ask myself, *What do I get for holding onto this thought?* I know I hold onto thoughts because I soooo want to be right...and I think you would have the approval of the whole universe that this guy was a smuck...but I also hear that your story is causing you stress. Who would you be NOW without this thought? Imagine yourself put on the planet and you couldn't think the thought * should not have molested me*....what are you feeling now in this moment without that thought? with great respect and love, nne > > > > I have never done work with someone who has been molested but this > > made me look twice...what do you mean by *I wanted it to happen?* > > > > Did you love him? Did you trust him? What happened? You were 17 or > 19 > > and fell in love with him....was it really molesting...and I'm not > > saying it wasn't...I'm just asking.... > > > > How do you feel when you believe that you should not have loved this > > man and he should not have loved you? > > > > please forgive me if I am too bold in my questions.... > > > > your work is wonderful > > > > love, > > nne > > nne - Not too bold at all. I wouldn't have written if I were > feeling private about this. He was my psychiatrist and I was in > therapy with him. Most therapy patients are in love with their > therapists at some point - it's called transferance and it's what is > supposed to happen. I have done that with every therapist I have > seen since then. It's the shrink's job to not let anything happen > and to help the person work through these feelings. It doesn't matter > how old the person is, but I was very young and emotionally unstable > and vulnerable. My love for him was only about his being my > therapist - a projection of my needs. It had nothing to do with him > as a person. I trusted him to know how to help me as my therapist. > He betrayed that trust. Most victims of abuse have mixed feelings > about their abusers. It is a very confusing situation. > > From a therapy point of view these statements are all true. You might > say that it is my story and I'm going to hold on to that because it's > a set of beliefs that work for me. From a point of view, it's > different because the work is about my stressful thoughts. If I have > successfully done the work, I think I can hold the above thoughts and > see that I am no longer angry or stressed by them. > > So, that's my story about what happened. Does it make any sense to > you? It is complicated and it is the hardest part of the work > for me - working on things that I believe are wrong and I don't want > to give up that belief because it gives a structure for my life. But > I do want to lose the stress that comes with those thoughts. I don't > exactly understand how sees this kind of thing, but I guess > that's her business. > > Thanks for the thoughts. It has helped me to work through this. > > Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Dear Kate This is complicated...Yes what he did was wrong...what he did was horrible to you...no doubt about that ....what I found out for myself is that I have found some freedom in knowing what is my business and what is God's business...that I can't always know why things happen.... I agree with , and I see alot of freedom in what you wrote about your sweet 19 year old self...as young, emotionally unstable and vulnerable at the time and doing the best she knew how to....my story is that you are a very brave, strong and together woman. love nne > > nne - Not too bold at all. I wouldn't have written if I were > feeling private about this. He was my psychiatrist and I was in > therapy with him. Most therapy patients are in love with their > therapists at some point - it's called transferance and it's what is > supposed to happen. I have done that with every therapist I have > seen since then. It's the shrink's job to not let anything happen > and to help the person work through these feelings. It doesn't matter > how old the person is, but I was very young and emotionally unstable > and vulnerable. My love for him was only about his being my > therapist - a projection of my needs. It had nothing to do with him > as a person. I trusted him to know how to help me as my therapist. > He betrayed that trust. Most victims of abuse have mixed feelings > about their abusers. It is a very confusing situation. > > From a therapy point of view these statements are all true. You might > say that it is my story and I'm going to hold on to that because it's > a set of beliefs that work for me. From a point of view, it's > different because the work is about my stressful thoughts. If I have > successfully done the work, I think I can hold the above thoughts and > see that I am no longer angry or stressed by them. > > So, that's my story about what happened. Does it make any sense to > you? It is complicated and it is the hardest part of the work > for me - working on things that I believe are wrong and I don't want > to give up that belief because it gives a structure for my life. But > I do want to lose the stress that comes with those thoughts. I don't > exactly understand how sees this kind of thing, but I guess > that's her business. > > Thanks for the thoughts. It has helped me to work through this. > > Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 * should not have molested me* I've done a lot of work on sexual abuse, it's important not to be over-simplistic. One way we deal with such intimate assaults is by not believing it - oh, we believe it on one level, but deep down there may be a part of us which survives by pretending it didn't happen, supported often by family and abuser in that denial. So we can be caught in an endless argument within ourselves, forever repeating our story of abuse in the hope that the part of us which refuses to believe it will eventually do so. Add the work into this internal war, and it can encourage this disconnection from our own thoughts and feelings. Sometimes the next step in healing such wounds is to say " Yes, sweetheart, it did happen - it shouldn't have happened, but it did " and to love the abused part. Only when the disconnected part is reconnected is it wise to inquire, premature inquiry only validates and increases the disconnection. My story is that if Kt was doing therapy, she would have to be much more thorough and careful in explaining how to apply her therapeutic tools, love, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Tim, I've been working with people for a long time and one thing I've noticed is the ones who don't want to take accountability and would rather continue to blame others for what happened to them, remain in the " victim " role. It's been my experience that the women I've been tempted by have come after me, not the other way around. I was usually just trying to do a good job and to find ways to help them out of their " victim " mindset. I honestly find this task the hardest job I could have chosen. That's why I refuse to work with people who want to stay victims anymore. I prefer the motivated ones--the ones who are willing to take responsibility for their lives. And I never work more than 20 hours a week (if I can help it). I'm a lot happier! I met my present partner while I was giving a self-awareness workshop--that makes me a " molester " in some people's eyes. So be it! We are happy! I wonder if some of the women who claimed they were molested by their therapists would call it molestation if the " molestation " resulted in marriage? Talking about " disowned parts " , I wonder how many of the group members who are judging the therapist have disowned the " molester-self " they have disconnected from? How many other ways besides sex, do we molest our patients? Just wonderfing! With Respect, Eddie > >Reply-To: Loving-what-is >To: Loving-what-is >Subject: Re: The Should word >Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:01:37 -0000 > >* should not have molested me* > >I've done a lot of work on sexual abuse, it's important not to be >over-simplistic. One way we deal with such intimate assaults is by >not believing it - oh, we believe it on one level, but deep down >there may be a part of us which survives by pretending it didn't >happen, supported often by family and abuser in that denial. So we >can be caught in an endless argument within ourselves, forever >repeating our story of abuse in the hope that the part of us which >refuses to believe it will eventually do so. Add the work into this >internal war, and it can encourage this disconnection from our own >thoughts and feelings. Sometimes the next step in healing such wounds >is to say " Yes, sweetheart, it did happen - it shouldn't have >happened, but it did " and to love the abused part. Only when the >disconnected part is reconnected is it wise to inquire, premature >inquiry only validates and increases the disconnection. >My story is that if Kt was doing therapy, she would have to be much >more thorough and careful in explaining how to apply her therapeutic >tools, love, Tim > > > _________________________________________________________________ Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Kate, I apologise if I haven't explained this well. I have a thought that I have problems putting concepts into words. I also am not intending to make less of your experience or feelings around it. My intention is to provide some food for thought. I see you have a question mark after the turnaround " I shouldn't have molested me " . To me this is an important turnaround. The truth is that every time you think about molesting you is that you are in fact doing it to yourself over and over. He is not around any more, he is not molesting you in this moment, he might not even be aware of your existence in this moment. The Work is not about making the actual event NOT happen. It happened. What The Work helps with is to unravel the thought " IS molesting me " which is being replayed in your mind in present time. A suggestion would be to try the questions on that thought and see what comes up. Doreen The Should word Here's the one I have most trouble with. should not have molested me. On one level - no question, he should not have molested me. It was illegal, unethical, exploitative and more. But in the world, it doesn't help me to hold that belief. So, I'm going to try to go through the questions and see what happens. should not have molested me. Is it true? It did happen. It was wrong. should not have molested me. Can you absolutely know that it's true? hmmm Can you really know what is best for his or your path? Can you absolutely know you would have been happier if it hadn't happened? No, I can't - how could I. I'm not god. If reality is god then it should have happened because it really did happen and so there is the reality of it. hmmm How do you react when you think the thought that should never have molested me? angry hurt righteous viscious I want to hit him with a 2x4. My stomach clenches, my breathing gets shorter and faster, my heart starts to beat, shaking, foot bouncing - stressed. How do you treat others when you think that thought? Agressively. Defensively. with a grrrr. How do you treat yourself when you think the thought that he shouldn't have done that? I shut down and close myself off and go back to that time and re-feel the pain. I am right there with the pain searing through me. The pain of betrayal. It shoots through my body. My shoulders hunch. I can't look people in the eye. I begin to hate myself because I know that I wanted it to happen. What do you get for holding this belief? all of the above. I get to think it's all his fault. Until I begin to think it's all my fault. I get to focus on fault. Can you see a reason to drop the thought? I suppose, if it would let me feel better. Who or what would you be without the thought that shouldn't have molested me? I'm sitting in my group therapy session when I was 19. I am hearing him talk to another woman in the group about how she loved him and he loved her - transference stuff. And instead of feeling betrayed, I'm thinking that their relationship is none of my business. The tree isn't crashing through my heart. I'm looking at him and thinking - do I want him or not. Do I want him to be my therapist or do I want him to be my lover. I'm thinking - neither. I'm going home and telling my parents - I need a new therapist and I want it to be a woman. I'm telling them what happened. They are blaming it on me. " Oh , how could you have let that happen? " I'm saying, I loved him, I trusted him, I believed he knew what was best for me. This doesn't feel good for me. Now I trust myself. I wouldn't be angry at my parents for not understanding or for finding this asshole to be my therapist. I would look at them and know that they did their best and that it was a miracle and a blessing that they even were able to suggest therapy when I was 17 and severely depressed and really needed to talk to someone who wasn't my parent. I would know that helped me survive that depression and get my life together and go back to college. He did what he could until he couldn't anymore. Turn the thought around. shouldn't have molested me. molested me. That's the reality. should have molested me - only in the extreme sense - he made me a stronger person, but not until 35 years later. Okay - I am not there with this one. I shouldn't have molested me. ? I shouldn't have molested him? Well, he did it. Or we did it. There it is. Reality. I don't know. I can at least see that it was at least partly about him and his business is not mine. Any ideas how to move further on this? Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Dear nne - Thank you for your kind words. Yes, remembering about God's business is a good idea. I'll think about that. Thanks, Kate > Dear Kate > > This is complicated...Yes what he did was wrong...what he did was > horrible to you...no doubt about that ....what I found out for myself > is that I have found some freedom in knowing what is my business and > what is God's business...that I can't always know why things happen.... > > I agree with , and I see alot of freedom in what you wrote > about your sweet 19 year old self...as young, emotionally unstable and > vulnerable at the time and doing the best she knew how to....my story > is that you are a very brave, strong and together woman. > > love > nne > > > > nne - Not too bold at all. I wouldn't have written if I were > > feeling private about this. He was my psychiatrist and I was in > > therapy with him. Most therapy patients are in love with their > > therapists at some point - it's called transferance and it's what is > > supposed to happen. I have done that with every therapist I have > > seen since then. It's the shrink's job to not let anything happen > > and to help the person work through these feelings. It doesn't matter > > how old the person is, but I was very young and emotionally unstable > > and vulnerable. My love for him was only about his being my > > therapist - a projection of my needs. It had nothing to do with him > > as a person. I trusted him to know how to help me as my therapist. > > He betrayed that trust. Most victims of abuse have mixed feelings > > about their abusers. It is a very confusing situation. > > > > From a therapy point of view these statements are all true. You might > > say that it is my story and I'm going to hold on to that because it's > > a set of beliefs that work for me. From a point of view, it's > > different because the work is about my stressful thoughts. If I have > > successfully done the work, I think I can hold the above thoughts and > > see that I am no longer angry or stressed by them. > > > > So, that's my story about what happened. Does it make any sense to > > you? It is complicated and it is the hardest part of the work > > for me - working on things that I believe are wrong and I don't want > > to give up that belief because it gives a structure for my life. But > > I do want to lose the stress that comes with those thoughts. I don't > > exactly understand how sees this kind of thing, but I guess > > that's her business. > > > > Thanks for the thoughts. It has helped me to work through this. > > > > Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Thank you Tim. Very, very interesting. I have done a lot of therapy work on this, but I guess I still do feel that disconnect. Just the other day I wrote a detailed remberance of what happened and as I was writing i kept thinking - I must have said all this a million times before, why am I repeating it. I am much less disconnected than I used to be. I am trying to be really honest with myself. Yes, it did happen. EAch time I tell myself the story I remember details that I had forgotten or minimized before. So, yes I guess there is some denial left. Your words have been helpful. Kate > * should not have molested me* > > I've done a lot of work on sexual abuse, it's important not to be > over-simplistic. One way we deal with such intimate assaults is by > not believing it - oh, we believe it on one level, but deep down > there may be a part of us which survives by pretending it didn't > happen, supported often by family and abuser in that denial. So we > can be caught in an endless argument within ourselves, forever > repeating our story of abuse in the hope that the part of us which > refuses to believe it will eventually do so. Add the work into this > internal war, and it can encourage this disconnection from our own > thoughts and feelings. Sometimes the next step in healing such wounds > is to say " Yes, sweetheart, it did happen - it shouldn't have > happened, but it did " and to love the abused part. Only when the > disconnected part is reconnected is it wise to inquire, premature > inquiry only validates and increases the disconnection. > My story is that if Kt was doing therapy, she would have to be much > more thorough and careful in explaining how to apply her therapeutic > tools, love, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Eddie - I'm glad you are not my therapist. Kate > I've been working with people for a long time and one thing I've noticed is > the ones who don't want to take accountability and would rather continue to > blame others for what happened to them, remain in the " victim " role. > > It's been my experience that the women I've been tempted by have come after > me, not the other way around. I was usually just trying to do a good job and > to find ways to help them out of their " victim " mindset. I honestly find > this task the hardest job I could have chosen. That's why I refuse to work > with people who want to stay victims anymore. I prefer the motivated > ones--the ones who are willing to take responsibility for their lives. And I > never work more than 20 hours a week (if I can help it). I'm a lot happier! > > I met my present partner while I was giving a self-awareness workshop--that > makes me a " molester " in some people's eyes. So be it! We are happy! > > I wonder if some of the women who claimed they were molested by their > therapists would call it molestation if the " molestation " resulted in > marriage? > > Talking about " disowned parts " , I wonder how many of the group members who > are judging the therapist have disowned the " molester-self " they have > disconnected from? > > How many other ways besides sex, do we molest our patients? > > Just wonderfing! > > With Respect, > Eddie > > > >From: " timitisi " <timitisi@y...> > >Reply-To: Loving-what-is > >To: Loving-what-is > >Subject: Re: The Should word > >Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:01:37 -0000 > > > >* should not have molested me* > > > >I've done a lot of work on sexual abuse, it's important not to be > >over-simplistic. One way we deal with such intimate assaults is by > >not believing it - oh, we believe it on one level, but deep down > >there may be a part of us which survives by pretending it didn't > >happen, supported often by family and abuser in that denial. So we > >can be caught in an endless argument within ourselves, forever > >repeating our story of abuse in the hope that the part of us which > >refuses to believe it will eventually do so. Add the work into this > >internal war, and it can encourage this disconnection from our own > >thoughts and feelings. Sometimes the next step in healing such wounds > >is to say " Yes, sweetheart, it did happen - it shouldn't have > >happened, but it did " and to love the abused part. Only when the > >disconnected part is reconnected is it wise to inquire, premature > >inquiry only validates and increases the disconnection. > >My story is that if Kt was doing therapy, she would have to be much > >more thorough and careful in explaining how to apply her therapeutic > >tools, love, Tim > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. > locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Doreen, I think you explained it very well. Yes, I see that working in the present tense might be helpful. I can see that I am doing the molesting now. Did you read Tim's response to my post? I think he has a point that I may not be ready to give up the story that he molested me and it was wrong. I think I still need to try to believe that it did happen and that it was wrong. For so many years I was in deep denial. But I guess I could say that what you are talking about is my goal. Thank you so much for your thoughts. Kate > Kate, > > I apologise if I haven't explained this well. I have a thought that I have problems putting concepts into words. I also am not intending to make less of your experience or feelings around it. My intention is to provide some food for thought. > > I see you have a question mark after the turnaround " I shouldn't have molested me " . To me this is an important turnaround. The truth is that every time you think about molesting you is that you are in fact doing it to yourself over and over. He is not around any more, he is not molesting you in this moment, he might not even be aware of your existence in this moment. The Work is not about making the actual event NOT happen. It happened. What The Work helps with is to unravel the thought " IS molesting me " which is being replayed in your mind in present time. A suggestion would be to try the questions on that thought and see what comes up. > > Doreen > > > > The Should word > > > Here's the one I have most trouble with. should not have > molested me. On one level - no question, he should not have molested > me. It was illegal, unethical, exploitative and more. But in the > world, it doesn't help me to hold that belief. So, I'm going > to try to go through the questions and see what happens. > > should not have molested me. Is it true? > > It did happen. It was wrong. > > should not have molested me. Can you absolutely know that it's > true? hmmm > > Can you really know what is best for his or your path? Can you > absolutely know you would have been happier if it hadn't happened? > > No, I can't - how could I. I'm not god. If reality is god then it > should have happened because it really did happen and so there is the > reality of it. hmmm > > How do you react when you think the thought that should never > have molested me? > > angry hurt righteous viscious I want to hit him with a 2x4. My > stomach clenches, my breathing gets shorter and faster, my heart > starts to beat, shaking, foot bouncing - stressed. How do you treat > others when you think that thought? Agressively. Defensively. with > a grrrr. How do you treat yourself when you think the thought that > he shouldn't have done that? I shut down and close myself off and go > back to that time and re-feel the pain. I am right there with the > pain searing through me. The pain of betrayal. It shoots through my > body. My shoulders hunch. I can't look people in the eye. I begin > to hate myself because I know that I wanted it to happen. > What do you get for holding this belief? all of the above. I get to > think it's all his fault. Until I begin to think it's all my fault. > I get to focus on fault. > Can you see a reason to drop the thought? I suppose, if it would let > me feel better. > > Who or what would you be without the thought that shouldn't have > molested me? > > I'm sitting in my group therapy session when I was 19. I am hearing > him talk to another woman in the group about how she loved him and he > loved her - transference stuff. And instead of feeling betrayed, I'm > thinking that their relationship is none of my business. The tree > isn't crashing through my heart. I'm looking at him and thinking - > do I want him or not. Do I want him to be my therapist or do I want > him to be my lover. I'm thinking - neither. I'm going home and > telling my parents - I need a new therapist and I want it to be a > woman. I'm telling them what happened. They are blaming it on > me. " Oh , how could you have let that happen? " I'm saying, I > loved him, I trusted him, I believed he knew what was best for me. > This doesn't feel good for me. Now I trust myself. I wouldn't be > angry at my parents for not understanding or for finding this asshole > to be my therapist. I would look at them and know that they did > their best and that it was a miracle and a blessing that they even > were able to suggest therapy when I was 17 and severely depressed and > really needed to talk to someone who wasn't my parent. I would know > that helped me survive that depression and get my life together > and go back to college. He did what he could until he couldn't > anymore. > > Turn the thought around. shouldn't have molested me. > > molested me. That's the reality. > > should have molested me - only in the extreme sense - he > made me a stronger person, but not until 35 years later. Okay - I am > not there with this one. > > I shouldn't have molested me. ? > > I shouldn't have molested him? > > Well, he did it. Or we did it. There it is. Reality. > > I don't know. I can at least see that it was at least partly about > him and his business is not mine. > > Any ideas how to move further on this? > > Kate > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Eddie, It's not your business who we judge or what we think.... but you might want to ask yourself you question....*How many other ways besides sex do I molest my patients?* nne > Talking about " disowned parts " , I wonder how many of the group members who > are judging the therapist have disowned the " molester-self " they have > disconnected from? > > How many other ways besides sex, do we molest our patients? > > Just wonderfing! > > With Respect, > Eddie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 There can be a subconscious fight between the part of you that wants to keep the story and the part that doesn't. (see Hal and Sidra Stone's work on Voice Dialogue). The secret to allowing both sides to be at peace and not to have this fight raging is to be aware at a deeper level of what is going on. There is absolutely no need to drop the story or discredit it in any way. The stressful thoughts are what are investigated. Doing The Work as you are doing is going in the right direction. Doreen The Should word > > > Here's the one I have most trouble with. should not have > molested me. On one level - no question, he should not have molested > me. It was illegal, unethical, exploitative and more. But in the > world, it doesn't help me to hold that belief. So, I'm going > to try to go through the questions and see what happens. > > should not have molested me. Is it true? > > It did happen. It was wrong. > > should not have molested me. Can you absolutely know that it's > true? hmmm > > Can you really know what is best for his or your path? Can you > absolutely know you would have been happier if it hadn't happened? > > No, I can't - how could I. I'm not god. If reality is god then it > should have happened because it really did happen and so there is the > reality of it. hmmm > > How do you react when you think the thought that should never > have molested me? > > angry hurt righteous viscious I want to hit him with a 2x4. My > stomach clenches, my breathing gets shorter and faster, my heart > starts to beat, shaking, foot bouncing - stressed. How do you treat > others when you think that thought? Agressively. Defensively. with > a grrrr. How do you treat yourself when you think the thought that > he shouldn't have done that? I shut down and close myself off and go > back to that time and re-feel the pain. I am right there with the > pain searing through me. The pain of betrayal. It shoots through my > body. My shoulders hunch. I can't look people in the eye. I begin > to hate myself because I know that I wanted it to happen. > What do you get for holding this belief? all of the above. I get to > think it's all his fault. Until I begin to think it's all my fault. > I get to focus on fault. > Can you see a reason to drop the thought? I suppose, if it would let > me feel better. > > Who or what would you be without the thought that shouldn't have > molested me? > > I'm sitting in my group therapy session when I was 19. I am hearing > him talk to another woman in the group about how she loved him and he > loved her - transference stuff. And instead of feeling betrayed, I'm > thinking that their relationship is none of my business. The tree > isn't crashing through my heart. I'm looking at him and thinking - > do I want him or not. Do I want him to be my therapist or do I want > him to be my lover. I'm thinking - neither. I'm going home and > telling my parents - I need a new therapist and I want it to be a > woman. I'm telling them what happened. They are blaming it on > me. " Oh , how could you have let that happen? " I'm saying, I > loved him, I trusted him, I believed he knew what was best for me. > This doesn't feel good for me. Now I trust myself. I wouldn't be > angry at my parents for not understanding or for finding this asshole > to be my therapist. I would look at them and know that they did > their best and that it was a miracle and a blessing that they even > were able to suggest therapy when I was 17 and severely depressed and > really needed to talk to someone who wasn't my parent. I would know > that helped me survive that depression and get my life together > and go back to college. He did what he could until he couldn't > anymore. > > Turn the thought around. shouldn't have molested me. > > molested me. That's the reality. > > should have molested me - only in the extreme sense - he > made me a stronger person, but not until 35 years later. Okay - I am > not there with this one. > > I shouldn't have molested me. ? > > I shouldn't have molested him? > > Well, he did it. Or we did it. There it is. Reality. > > I don't know. I can at least see that it was at least partly about > him and his business is not mine. > > Any ideas how to move further on this? > > Kate > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Kate, Thank you for your honesty. I too, have experienced sexual abuse and have pondered how I would apply the work to those experiences. I am not ready to apply the work to those experiences, as I am new to this process. But from a newbie's standpoint, the idea that I'd have to apply a turnaround to a thought such as: " Esteban should not have molested me " into " Esteban should have molested me " , makes my stomach turn. " Turn the thought around. shouldn't have molested me. molested me. That's the reality. should have molested me - only in the extreme sense - he made me a stronger person, but not until 35 years later. Okay - I am not there with this one. " Your story and the ongoing discussions on this topic are providing some wonderful insights. Thank you. Elli Vizcaino www.eliazer.com - Innovative Custom Web Site Designs, Website Re-design and Web Design Development Services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Me too. Thank you Kate! I take that as a compliment. Eddie > >Reply-To: Loving-what-is >To: Loving-what-is >Subject: Re: The Should word >Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:20:29 -0000 > >Eddie - I'm glad you are not my therapist. >Kate > > > > > I've been working with people for a long time and one thing I've >noticed is > > the ones who don't want to take accountability and would rather >continue to > > blame others for what happened to them, remain in the " victim " role. > > > > It's been my experience that the women I've been tempted by have >come after > > me, not the other way around. I was usually just trying to do a >good job and > > to find ways to help them out of their " victim " mindset. I honestly >find > > this task the hardest job I could have chosen. That's why I refuse >to work > > with people who want to stay victims anymore. I prefer the >motivated > > ones--the ones who are willing to take responsibility for their >lives. And I > > never work more than 20 hours a week (if I can help it). I'm a lot >happier! > > > > I met my present partner while I was giving a self-awareness >workshop--that > > makes me a " molester " in some people's eyes. So be it! We are happy! > > > > I wonder if some of the women who claimed they were molested by >their > > therapists would call it molestation if the " molestation " resulted >in > > marriage? > > > > Talking about " disowned parts " , I wonder how many of the group >members who > > are judging the therapist have disowned the " molester-self " they >have > > disconnected from? > > > > How many other ways besides sex, do we molest our patients? > > > > Just wonderfing! > > > > With Respect, > > Eddie > > > > > > >From: " timitisi " <timitisi@y...> > > >Reply-To: Loving-what-is > > >To: Loving-what-is > > >Subject: Re: The Should word > > >Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:01:37 -0000 > > > > > >* should not have molested me* > > > > > >I've done a lot of work on sexual abuse, it's important not to be > > >over-simplistic. One way we deal with such intimate assaults is by > > >not believing it - oh, we believe it on one level, but deep down > > >there may be a part of us which survives by pretending it didn't > > >happen, supported often by family and abuser in that denial. So we > > >can be caught in an endless argument within ourselves, forever > > >repeating our story of abuse in the hope that the part of us which > > >refuses to believe it will eventually do so. Add the work into this > > >internal war, and it can encourage this disconnection from our own > > >thoughts and feelings. Sometimes the next step in healing such >wounds > > >is to say " Yes, sweetheart, it did happen - it shouldn't have > > >happened, but it did " and to love the abused part. Only when the > > >disconnected part is reconnected is it wise to inquire, premature > > >inquiry only validates and increases the disconnection. > > >My story is that if Kt was doing therapy, she would have to be much > > >more thorough and careful in explaining how to apply her >therapeutic > > >tools, love, Tim > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great >U.S. > > locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx > _________________________________________________________________ Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Thanks nne, I came up with four--how many did you get? Eddie > >Reply-To: Loving-what-is >To: Loving-what-is >Subject: Re: The Should word >Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:53:39 -0000 > >Eddie, > >It's not your business who we judge or what we think.... but you might >want to ask yourself you question....*How many other ways besides sex >do I molest my patients?* > >nne > > > Talking about " disowned parts " , I wonder how many of the group >members who > > are judging the therapist have disowned the " molester-self " they have > > disconnected from? > > > > How many other ways besides sex, do we molest our patients? > > > > Just wonderfing! > > > > With Respect, > > Eddie > > > _________________________________________________________________ Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Dear Kate, You are doing so well...I am inept to help you but I feel as if I've been listening to you all day and just holding your hand ...you do inquiry very well. love, nne > > Dear nne - Thank you for your kind words. Yes, remembering > about God's business is a good idea. I'll think about that. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 nne - Thank you for saying that. I also feel as if you and others have been holding my hand. I have had a lot of really helpful input. I feel like I have opened up my mind and heart more than I could have imagined. love, Kate > Dear Kate, > > You are doing so well...I am inept to help you but I feel as if I've > been listening to you all day and just holding your hand ...you do > inquiry very well. > > love, > nne > > > > Dear nne - Thank you for your kind words. Yes, remembering > > about God's business is a good idea. I'll think about that. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 Hello All, Would it be more helpful, and potentially more liberating, not to use the word " molested " to describe what happened between you and your therapist? Molest already implies a judgment and reinscribes a story that is causing pain. --Debra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 Debra, Good advice! I find it interesting that " affair or relationship " turns into " molestation " when someone gets rejected. Eddie > >Reply-To: Loving-what-is >To: Loving-what-is >Subject: Re: The Should Word >Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:07:50 -0000 > >Hello All, > >Would it be more helpful, and potentially more liberating, not to use >the word " molested " to describe what happened between you and your >therapist? Molest already implies a judgment and reinscribes a story >that is causing pain. > >--Debra > > _________________________________________________________________ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 > Hello All, > > Would it be more helpful, and potentially more liberating, not to use > the word " molested " to describe what happened between you and your > therapist? Molest already implies a judgment and reinscribes a story > that is causing pain. Hi, Debra. Thank you for your suggestion. I'm sure it will be extremely helpful for some. One of my stories is that each word we use is itself a story. Each person assigns their own meaning to each word, and there's no guarantee about whether our meanings for a particular word coincide or not. So it seems to me extremely likely that your take on " molest " will match the understanding of some and not of others. Folks who have the same connotation as you will find your suggestion helpful, folks who do not may not think that " molest " implies a judgement or painful story. So thank you for putting your suggestion out there. I'm glad you're here. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.