Re: Fun in the Other forums.

May 4, 2008

I know how that is. I get much the same response from some environmentalists in person and on certain boards when I talk about forestry. For some reason because I know about forest biology and health and proper land management techniques for the long-term health of a forest, my opinion doesn't count. Because I talk about the life cycle of a forest, harvesting and replanting, watching for diseases and fire hazards, I'm shouted down. I guess the only opinion that matters is a touchy-feely pure emotional one, the kind that allowed forests in national and state parks to get so unhealthy that when they burn they kill everything, so they are no longer a healthy part of forest life (for those kinds of forest).

Same goes for paper recyclers. Recycling paper results in a lower quality product that uses lots of chemicals and other treatments. It would be better to use old paper as some kind of biomass fuel or the like. Trees do grow back, so paper is a renewable resource. If they want to harp on recycling, they should be on about metals. Metals don't grow back so we should be recycling as much of them as we can.

In a message dated 5/4/2008 4:28:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes:

There are no autistics in that form because they do not regard the opinions of autistics as being relevant. I signed in under one name and announced myself as an autistic and got driven off for my suggestions, but my suggestions are accepted graciously under a different user name. My only explanation for this is that I have described myself as a confused and perplexed parent of an adorable, lovable lunk of an Aspling who is a bit dippy (the Aspie is dippy, not me), but with a good heart.Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

May 4, 2008

That is sad and pathetic. That's why I'm careful about joining in

group conversations (including forums). Take two nice NT males and

two nice NT females and put them in a group setting, and they'll

typically morph into brainless alpha-males and clique chicks. If you

say anything that isn't a compliment to someone with higher status or

a put-down to someone with lower status, they'll just scratch their

heads and try to figure out the hidden connotation. I usually try to

stay quiet and keep score of the tit-for-tat verbal battle for

pecking order status. I call it the Darwin game. Later, after the

group breaks up, I'll approach them individually, if I have something

to say or ask that has any real meaning.

>

> Just like experience in other venues as described in post

#36487

> (see below) I thought I'd post a little story about what I have been

> seeing in other online forums and would as if any of you have had

> similar experiences.

>

> I am a member of quite a few forums as I have stated, and I

particularly

> make it a point to be a part of other parenting forums to see what

> parents are doing with their autistic kids.

>

> My time is limited, so I spend very little time actually posting in

> them, but I do read the daily digests I get in the mail if they are

> Yahoo Groups.

>

> ly, it is alarming what parents do and it is alarming that

they can

> get away with it.

>

> The Yahoo parents of autistics forum I am a member of is one of the

most

> active on the net and gets as many as a 50 to 100 posts a day

> somemtimes.

>

> There are no autistics in that form because they do not regard the

> opinions of autistics as being relevant. I signed in under one name

and

> announced myself as an autistic and got driven off for my

suggestions,

> but my suggestions are accepted graciously under a different user

name.

> My only explanation for this is that I have described myself as a

> confused and perplexed parent of an adorable, lovable lunk of an

Aspling

> who is a bit dippy (the Aspie is dippy, not me), but with a good

heart.

>

> My suggestions under my new name are taken well even though the

> identical suggestions under my old name were not.

>

> It can be fun to watch the hairbrained ideas parents come up with to

> " treat " their children.

>

> " Chocolate has helped my Aspie be in a better mood...I think it is

> curing his autism. "

>

> Er...what autistic WOULDN'T be in a better mood if they were doled

out a

> bit of chocolate every day as people dole out doggy treats to good

dogs.

> If you want an obedient dog for a son or daughter, the whole

Skinner Box

> stimulus-response training is the way to go. Never mind the fact

that

> your autistic kid is going to grow up expecting handouts from people

> whenever he or she does a good job.

>

> Then there are the really pathetic posts where I just want to

strangle

> parents. They run something like this (I have slightly fictionalized

> this so that the guilty cannot be identified):

>

> Original poster:

>

> " The psychiatrist says he doesn't NEED meds? Can you believe that.

He

> says it's MY problem. That I need to understand how he thinks

instead of

> the other way around. I am not the retarded one! "

>

> Poster #2:

>

> " I would take him to another psychiatrist. Everyone knows autistics

need

> meds to keep their heads grounded in reality. My kid is on six

different

> kinds of meds. And while he often times walks around like a space

alien,

> he doesn't bang his head against the wall when I yell at him

either. "

>

> Fast forward one month....

>

> Original poster:

>

> " Took him. Got him started on Risperdahl and three other kinds of

meds. "

>

> Poster #2:

>

> " Good. You did the right thing. Now go have a beer. You deserve it

for

> all your kid has put you through. If it were my kid, I would have

> institutionalized him years ago. "

>

> Fast forward one week:

>

> Original poster:

>

> " Dear Son has broken out in some kind of wierd rash. What could be

> causing this? "

>

> Poster #2:

>

> " Does he have food allergies? It could be that. "

>

> Poster #3:

>

> " Did you get any new carpet installed or anything? Sometimes fabric

> causes allergic reactions in autistics. They're allergic to

EVERYTHING

> you know. That's why they have stims. To get rid of the feelings

from

> allergic reactions. "

>

> Original poster:

>

> Well I did put up new shower curtains. But he's never gotten

allergic to

> them before.

>

> ME as ME:

>

> " It's a reaction to the meds. Take him to the doctor. "

>

> Poster #3:

>

> Don't listen to the previous poster. It's the shower curtains. But

maybe

> not the ones you put up but the ones you took down. They might have

had

> mold on them and when you took them down, mold flew all over the

house

> and made him have the rash.

>

> Original poster:

>

> " That certainly sounds more sensible than an allergic reaction to

meds.

> Doctors certainly wouldn't prescribe anything that would harm a

child.

> Besides, all these drugs have been tested on children.

>

> ME as ME:

>

> " Actually none of the drugs prescribed for your child have been

tested

> on children except Risperdone, and the long term effects of that

drug on

> children have NOT been tested. "

>

> Poster #2:

>

> " Shut up. You don't know what you're talking about. It's the shower

> curtain. You've been causing loads of problems here since you first

> posted. I think the moderator ought to ban you.

>

> ME as a fake parent of an autistic child:

>

> " Actually, he may be right. I read something about this in some

magazine

> or other. Maybe it was People. "

>

> Original poster:

>

> " Okay, I wil think about it. "

>

> Fast forward two days.

>

> Original poster:

>

> " Took him. You were right. It was the meds. They took hiom off one

and

> gave him another in its place plus two more to counter any possible

> allergic reactions to the new drug (which he really should have been

> taking all along anyway). I don't understand exactly what the

doctor was

> saying. Something about anaphalactic toxicity -whatever THAT is

(ROTFL)

> -DO RE ME FAH SO LA TI AN A PHA LAC TIC TOC IC IT TY- and a build

up of

> meds in his system. But anywayz, he sez it ought to clear up with

the

> new meds and the extra meds.

>

> " Also, one thing I hadn't been mentioning lately, ever since he

started

> the new meds, he's been more agressive, more moody, more sensitive

to

> light. More quick to talk back. The doctor explained that it was

just

> his allergic reaction. "

>

> Poster #2:

>

> You did the right thing.

>

> ME as ME:

>

> " The concoction the psychiatrist is giving your child is causing

this

> behavior. Be warned. the drugs he is on have been known to cause

> suicidal tendencies.

>

> Poster #3:

>

> " Shut up autie. When we want your opinion, we'll tell you what it

is. In

> the meantime, go back to the asylum from which you came. "

>

> Fast forward two weeks:

>

> Original poster:

>

> " His behavior has gotten worse. I just don't understand it. "

>

> Poster #3:

>

> " Go see the psychiatrist. They usually begin with a minimum dosage.

He

> may need his meds upped. "

>

> ME as ME:

>

> " You're playing with fire. Remember. I was the one who told you to

take

> him to the doctor in the first place for the rash for the meds he

> shouldn't be on. "

>

> Poster #2:

>

> " And as I recall, someone said that when we want your opinion, we'll

> tell it to you. So shut the @#$! unless you want us all to complain

to

> the mods so you can find yourself floating in cyber-space. "

>

> Fast forward a week:

>

> Original poster:

>

> " Meds upped. Cross your fingers everyone. "

>

> ME as ME:

>

> " How about I just build a cross for the grave? "

>

> Poster #2:

>

> " I'm writing the mods a-hole. "

>

> ---------------------------------

>

> Tom,

>

> It has been a long, long time since I posted here, but when I got

> your email about this, I thought I'd chime in with my two cents

> worth. (And thanks for asking!)

>

> I have been a member of a local Sunday Asperger's Meetup, started by

> an NT mother, who purportedly started the group with the intent of

> including everyone: parents, children, and adult aspies. When I

> joined, I in my aspie idealism, thought, " How wonderful! An

> opportunity to help parents of aspie children. " At the same time, a

> group of us adult aspies have also been holding separate group

> meetings on Thursdays for aspies only to serve the needs of those

> uncomfortable with NTs being present, and that group existed LONG

> BEFORE the mom started her " all-inclusive " Meetup. Though the

> Thursday group was never under the Meetup umbrella, and there was no

> clear web presence for a long time (the one who started the Thursday

> group through Yahoo, I think, moved away), we just went along our

> merry way with old Thursday members coming and going, and new

members

> joining from the having heard about it through friends or through

the

> Sunday Meetup group's site since it began.

>

> When a group of us adult aspies from the Thursday group decided to

> create our own Meetup to give the Thursday group its own web

> presence, we all of a sudden became perceived as a threat to the

> Sunday group. This last Sunday meeting, the parents started out in a

> separate room, and we never saw them nor they us, which is unusual

> because we usually all gather together and then break out into

> separate discussion groups, with parents being free to join the

adult

> discussion, and vice versa. Apparently, we were welcome to be a part

> of the group as long as we seemed to be subservient to the NT leader

> mom, but not if we had the gall to give our Thursday group its own

> Meetup identity. She, of course, could have said, " How great for you

> that you did this. I wish you well. " Instead, it was taken as a

> personal affront for whatever reason.

>

> When several of us adult aspies mentioned that we came partly to

> contribute whatever insight we could from the aspie perspective to

> answer parents' questions, the comments were brushed aside by the

> NT mom, something to the effect of, " Yeah, that's something to

> consider. " Mind you, we had heretofore been interacting freely with

> parents, often with near tears of joy from parents because of the

> encouragement they felt meeting us. It is clear to most of us that

it

> there is some degree of fear or apprehension at the thought that we

> would be capable of setting up our own Meetup site, though there was

> no malice intended on our part by doing so.

>

> Where am I going with this? If you have parents who actually want to

> hear the thoughts, feelings, and opinions of aspie adults, more

power

> to them! They are apparently much further along in the quest for a

> way to meet their children on their own terms than these parents

I've

> met. They obviously respect that this forum is created and run by

> aspies! What a concept! I say bless their hearts, and give them a

> chance. We can hope that they interact (or stay on the sidelines if

> they choose) in good faith to learn more about those on the spectrum

> and possibly about their own children and the adults they might

> become. If we run across a bad egg or two, they can be dealt with on

> a case-by-case basis, but I say, please welcome them.

>

> I agree with you, though -- if even one person doesn't want parents

> here, then we should respect their wishes. If the decision is made

> not to include those parents, please let them know they are free to

> contact me by email.

>

> I've spent over twenty years in the education field, from early

> childhood through adult education (literacy, GED, etc.). I welcome

> discussing with parents my career experience in education, growing

up

> aspie, and being an adult aspie.

>

May 5, 2008

>

> That is sad and pathetic. That's why I'm careful about joining in

> group conversations (including forums). Take two nice NT males and

> two nice NT females and put them in a group setting, and they'll

> typically morph into brainless alpha-males and clique chicks. If you

> say anything that isn't a compliment to someone with higher status or

> a put-down to someone with lower status, they'll just scratch their

> heads and try to figure out the hidden connotation. I usually try to

> stay quiet and keep score of the tit-for-tat verbal battle for

> pecking order status. I call it the Darwin game. Later, after the

> group breaks up, I'll approach them individually, if I have something

> to say or ask that has any real meaning.

>

that is an interesting observational technique to research status. I

like it. I like to envision wild bush tribes myself (complete with

chest beating) I like to watch more than I like interaction as well.

May 5, 2008

-For a scary look at what is happening the psychotropic meds, view

the Frontline PBS special on Bipolar Disorder. (You can access it

online.) As a prescriber I'll say that there are times when

psychotropic meds make a wonderful difference in someone's life, but

they have to be prescribed with much forethought, the right dose,

good follow-up etc. They are not a panacea and can produce life-

threatening results, just as other meds can. Medicating people into

stupor is not the idea; medicaion should only be used when it can

effectively help the person come to a point where other therapeutic

techniques can be used (if those have not been successful to this

point.) -- In FAMSecretSociety ,

environmental1st2003 wrote: