Re: Newbie from Norway

[Guest guest]

Jan,

The best way for me to respond to you is from noticing a long time ago,

when doing clinical in locked up mental institutions that the difference

between those locked up and me, (with a key and walking out), was just

that they and someone else thought they should be there. To be honest

that scared me a little because I realized that without investigating my

own motivations I would be among those " locked up " .

I didn't do the work back then, I just noticed. The difference and that

line, was so fine, that at times to me it seemed to not even exist,

again that scared me. I had a story of dissociation as I had some

difficult times as a kid and kids are taught to be " magical " , we read

about magic stories, and we learn to make a story that fits with our

experience, heck we don't know, we are new to living this life.

The work has helped me to see that what I called dissociated was just a

story I made up for me. As far as staying in the present and fully

feeling my feelings and not going into another story, well yes, I did go

through a time when some things did help, or so I thought. It came to

doing things for me that felt kind and compassionate and noticing. My

behavior really didn't change, what changed was that I noticed. The

things that seemed to " plant me " were simple, like a nice hot bath,

sleeping when I was really tired, stopping " late night work " when I was

exhausted, I had done this stuff at times but I did them for a reason

in my mind that was different (those stories!). So when I " stayed in the

moment " with clarity, I still had the same behavior only a different

attachment to why I did them. When I noticed that I was being kind to

me or my body and following that thought through, things changed a lot.

It is a wonderful feeling to get love back to you from yourself, and

love can appear as many different things to each person. For me it was

stopping the mind, and noticing my life. The work has been very good at

helping me do that.

I don't know about labels, I don't know about personality disorders

enough to say that those diagnoses are correct in their limitations, or

if there really are limitations. I do know that I am all there is when

it comes to me. Investigating my motivations, (what I get out of that

thought), my reality (is it true and what is the evidence or proof of

that, and is that just another story!) and becoming aware of how I

respond when I think the thoughts (how I treat myself and others) has

surely given me clarity.

Early in my learning about the work I heard talk to someone about

dissociation and she said " what a loving thing to do for you. Of course

you did that. " There was no shame of " wacko " or " odd " or " crazy " . It

was " what was or is " and it is all perfect, until it no longer works and

then that is perfect too. I honestly can't do the same " ignoring " of my

feelings , or pretending that something that is not OK with me, is just

fine, anymore. When I feel that feeling in my chest or my throat, I

ask! I ask me if I am OK, and if not what is really going on! The

other experience I noticed was that I got angry, not a fit or a story of

what it would look like " being angry " but really feeling it. Then I did

the work and noticed that I didn't like the feeling and I stopped it for

reasons that became clear to me, not because " it was not a nice way to

behave " but because my thinking was not true for me. This might not be

what you are looking for in regard to your own experiences but this was

big for me. I was the perfect little martyr and yet resented it. I got

migraines, I was sick a lot with sore throats or torn ligaments from

just " not noticing " that what I was doing was hurtful to a body that was

not used to " rock climbing " or some need to be physical and fix

something. I have had over 20 surgeries due to " accidents " , or ignoring

my body.

I can't tell you how you will experience the " work " or if it will do

what you expect it to do, for me it did things that I didn't expect it

to do, I just started " the work " to get over some " loss " that I had,

(one of my pets died!) and what I got back was my life.

So.... Is that true? " I didn't have my life before the work "

Can I absolutely know that is true? No, I always had my life, I just

didn't notice at times, and unless you say " big toe " , I don't notice I

have one! LOL

So how do I react when I think that I didn't have my own life? I come

up with stories of pretending everything was OK with me when I let

others hurt me, or when I hurt others. I have a story of days going by

and they all just seemed the same and then they were suddenly painful.

I have stories where I stayed away from people because it was too hard

to " stay the same " with them. I have stories that people were just too

exhausting to be around. I have stories that I failed a lot as a

person. What if others " knew " . What if they " knew " that at times I

just did things for them because I thought I was supposed to and I

really didn't want to do it. What if I was really nuts? (I was also in

the medical field! LOL)

Are those thoughts peaceful? Hell no!

Can I see a reason to stop that thought? (Well here was my original

resistance, I came up with a story that if I kept that thought I would

not be disappointed with me when I just did it again, MORE STORY!) So

no, the thought was very stressful.

How would I live my life without that thought (if I could) well, I would

notice my behavior, I would notice how good it feels to be here in this

body, I would notice that nothing bad ever happened! I would notice

that here right now, I am very OK. As I look up around me, everything

else and everybody is also very OK! What do you know! They are fine

just the way they are. They do not have to be a circus for me.... (turn

around: I do not have to be a circus act for them!---that sure fits

here!)

So the turn around on that thought: I didn't have my life.

I did have my life.

My thinking believed that I didn't have my life. (yep,

I just thought that stories were not life.....they are stories and

nothing less or more, I created them!

Other's had my life? Sometimes I would think I would

just hand it over to them, that was a lie! I was just playing out

another story, they were just part of my " my story " .

I look forward to thinking that the work gave me my life, sure! I can

work on those old thoughts that plagued me and kept me isolated and

notice that I am here, not always with a lot of people, but I am here, I

notice this life in this body. I surely notice! I notice that it is

not my way to always be with a lot of people. I am just fine! I have

kids ,some friends, I do volunteer work (for the kids various clubs

etc) and through all of this I am also going through divorce, I am

amazed at how calm and OK I am with " what is " . I look forward to every

thing I get to notice! What a " roller coaster' life can be and when I

think it is not fun, I ask!

What I heard from your question is my story, I can't know what you were

asking. It appeared to me that one was feeling " so gone " that could the

work help? Again, my story! <smile> By the way, I was never so gone!

I am not so gone! There are sure some thoughts though that are finally

" so gone " !!!!!!!!!!

Lovingly,

April

[Guest guest]

> I want to know if The Work really *can* make a difference where

> debilitating mental issues are concerned.

Hi Jan,

Good news, the Work works for anyone who has thoughts, regards of how

they may label themselves. The following quote from Byron says

it much better than I could.

" And what I found is that when I question my thoughts, I don't

suffer; and that without questioning the thoughts, there's suffering,

and I've come to see that this is true for every human being. And

there's no one who cannot do this simple Work. Anyone who can think,

can do this: little children, old people—it's okay if they have

Alzheimer's; it's okay if they're schizophrenic; it's okay if they've

multiple-personalities; it's all okay; it's okay for psychotics—

anyone, if they're thinking, can do this simple Work and end the

suffering in their life. " Watkins Review 2002.

Loving what is, angel, and that would be you.

Neo

[Guest guest]

" Jan Saniman " wrote:

> Hi everyone,

>

>

> I want to know if The Work really *can* make a difference where

> debilitating mental issues are concerned. Having experienced bouts of

> depersonalization and derealization I often do not know *what* I'm

> feeling or *why.* Can anyone relate to this? And do you have any

> feedback for me where The WOrk is concerned?

>

>

> So basically I need some *real* - preferably scientifically valid -

> help. Can the The Work be something for me?

>

> All input is welcome, even advice to stay away from The Work.

>

>

> best regards,

> Jan

Hi Jan-

Welcome to an advice board for the Work!

I'm listening to your issue about bouts of depersonalization and

derealization.

Yes, the work could help, but there is very little support, few

guidelines and for me, the work has some huge liabilities. I love the

format of the questions, the turnarounds and the writing style of the

Loving What Is Worksheet. But for me there's not enough emphasis that

when you do the work YOU MUST FEEL your FEELINGS and be guided by them

in order to make progress.

I do not like the lack of guidelines, the lack of support, and the

lack of research to determine if long term the Loving What Is

worksheets alone are effective. I needed more support and more structure.

For me, I took the Work's four questions and used them in a program

called the Pathway. The Pathway comes out of a university system, has

been researched for 20 years, has fabulous longitudinal stats, and a

built in support system - individual coaching, telegroups, and a built

in network of people doing the same system to chat with for free.

It's affordable - With Loving What Is you go to a weekend intensive

and get a shot of the work for hundreds of dollars - and walk away

thinking that has the answer. With the Pathway you pay $500 and

get weekly telegroup sessions for 12 weeks, a twelve-week program and

a huge support system with very well researched guidelines and you

walk away knowing that you ARE the answer. The website there is run

by the organization and EVERYONE follows safety guidelines - WHAT A

DIFFERENCE.

It is highly structured, lots of work, takes a minimum of two years to

complete. I'm in my 20th week of this two-year program and it is

working for me.

If you wish more information, pick up a copy of either the book

Solution or The Pathway by Laurel Mellin or visit www.thepathway.org

online.

Don't be put off - in the 60s and 70s this program started out as a

program to address obesity issues - along the way research discovered

that while it did solve people's weight management issues, it ended up

addressing all addictions - including the two you mention except they

call it putting up walls.

Also the Pathway is totally about you returning to the love you are.

I like having a twelve-week journal to discipline me to actually DO

the work of the pathway - that will get me the skills I need to Love

What Is!!!!

Good Luck - Jan

In writing this - I just really clarified how much Loving What Is is

about worship. Another trap! Then I remember Carol talking

about how she got so into " worship " . You won't get any of that

from The Pathway...Laurel disappears in the background - YOU are the

only ticket to your freedom! I REALLY like that!

[Guest guest]

> Hi everyone,

>

> My name is Jan, I am a 31yo guy living in Norway and have just

> stumbled on Byron 's " The Work. " I am hoping that it can help me

> with my emotional and mental issues. For the past ten years I have

> been dealing with depression, anxiety and personality disorders. I'm

> tired of this and am ready to make a sincere effort to live well.

>

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your kind answers. I'm still digesting your feedback.

For now I've realised that yes, it *is* safety and support that I

would need should I use The Work. I tried the " judge your neighbour "

worksheet available at 's website and I didn't like the way I

felt after it was all over. It felt like I was brainwashing myself to

feel otherwise about my neighbour (in this case a friend). There was

something that just didn't feel right. I can't quite put my finger on

it. Perhaps I was just trying to change my feelings about things

rather than making real changes in my life.

I guess that's my concern. By doing the work would I simply start

deluding myself again or would it lead to meaningful and real changes

in my life?

I am envious of you guys in the US! You have an abundance of

self-resources and support networks.

best regards,

Jan

[Guest guest]

" I just really clarified how much Loving What Is is about

worship. " Jan

One thing that encourages this is Kt's use of herself as a positive

example of clarity, peace etc, LWI; kind of " you too can be like me " .

That puts the focus on her. And as we know, she just woke up that way

one morning. Tim

[Guest guest]

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> >

> > I want to know if The Work really *can* make a difference

where

> > debilitating mental issues are concerned. Having

experienced bouts of

> > depersonalization and derealization I often do not know

*what* I'm

> > feeling or *why.* Can anyone relate to this? And do you have

any

> > feedback for me where The WOrk is concerned?

> >

> >

> > So basically I need some *real* - preferably scientifically valid

-

> > help. Can the The Work be something for me?

> >

> > All input is welcome, even advice to stay away from The

Work.

> >

> >

> > best regards,

> > Jan

>

> Hi Jan-

> Welcome to an advice board for the Work!

>

> I'm listening to your issue about bouts of depersonalization

and

> derealization.

>

> Yes, the work could help, but there is very little support, few

> guidelines and for me, the work has some huge liabilities. I

love the

> format of the questions, the turnarounds and the writing style of

the

> Loving What Is Worksheet. But for me there's not enough

emphasis that

> when you do the work YOU MUST FEEL your FEELINGS and

be guided by them

> in order to make progress.

>

> I do not like the lack of guidelines, the lack of support, and the

> lack of research to determine if long term the Loving What Is

> worksheets alone are effective. I needed more support and

more structure.

>

> For me, I took the Work's four questions and used them in a

program

> called the Pathway. The Pathway comes out of a university

system, has

> been researched for 20 years, has fabulous longitudinal stats,

and a

> built in support system - individual coaching, telegroups, and a

built

> in network of people doing the same system to chat with for

free.

>

> It's affordable - With Loving What Is you go to a weekend

intensive

> and get a shot of the work for hundreds of dollars - and walk

away

> thinking that has the answer. With the Pathway you pay

$500 and

> get weekly telegroup sessions for 12 weeks, a twelve-week

program and

> a huge support system with very well researched guidelines

and you

> walk away knowing that you ARE the answer. The website

there is run

> by the organization and EVERYONE follows safety guidelines -

WHAT A

> DIFFERENCE.

>

> It is highly structured, lots of work, takes a minimum of two

years to

> complete. I'm in my 20th week of this two-year program and it

is

> working for me.

>

> If you wish more information, pick up a copy of either the book

> Solution or The Pathway by Laurel Mellin or visit

www.thepathway.org

> online.

>

> Don't be put off - in the 60s and 70s this program started out

as a

> program to address obesity issues - along the way research

discovered

> that while it did solve people's weight management issues, it

ended up

> addressing all addictions - including the two you mention

except they

> call it putting up walls.

>

> Also the Pathway is totally about you returning to the love you

are.

> I like having a twelve-week journal to discipline me to actually

DO

> the work of the pathway - that will get me the skills I need to

Love

> What Is!!!!

>

> Good Luck - Jan

>

> In writing this - I just really clarified how much Loving What Is is

> about worship. Another trap! Then I remember Carol

talking

> about how she got so into " worship " . You won't get any of

that

> from The Pathway...Laurel disappears in the background -

YOU are the

> only ticket to your freedom! I REALLY like that!

[Guest guest]

Hi jan,

I am reading backwards today just caught your letter...

my comments are *

scroll down i can't cut and paste!

> >

> >

>

>

Jan said...

>

I didn't like the way I

> felt after it was all over. It felt like I was brainwashing myself to

> feel otherwise about my neighbour (in this case a friend).

There was

> something that just didn't feel right. I can't quite put my finger

on

> it. Perhaps I was just trying to change my feelings about things

> rather than making real changes in my life.

Sharon say:

*I think its an ueasy feeling because you may have been trying to

brainwash yourself.

Its like saying i am doing this sheet to like my friend again or

whatever big intention you have.

So what to ask may be am i willing to do this for the love of truth?

Truth in your 'mind' may be that i should love my friend...thats

brainwashing...

go in and ask the questions and answer from your heart.

It creates a spaciousness (for me) that has nothing to do with

the mind....

I think the uneasy feeling maybe from having a motivation.

go in and ask if it was for your highest good would you con't to

dislike your friend...would you be willing to do that?

If it was for your highest good to know God would you be willing

to be depressed for the rest of your life (whoa...I resist myself

here myself i notice).

To me i read katies 'work' as would you be willing to lose all

beliefs...all of it for the love truth.Just for a moment and see...

>

> I guess that's my concern. By doing the work would I simply

start

> deluding myself again or would it lead to meaningful and real

changes

> in my life?

>

> I am envious of you guys in the US! You have an abundance of

> self-resources and support networks.

>

> best regards,

> Jan

[Guest guest]

Dear Jan from Norway,

Welcome to LWI Group.

You asked: " I want to know if The Work really *can* make a difference

where debilitating mental issues are concerned.

My response would be " Yes and No " .

The " Yes " is based upon my experience that has been that The Work has

enabled me to know what is true and what is not true for me and this

has brought me to a much more peaceful state of being.

The " No " is based upon my experience that doing The Work has brought

me to the realization that my mental issues were not actually

debilitating, but my thinking or my story about them was.

I can say that there is nothing to fear about doing The Work. The

only thing that will happen is that you will " Know the truth, and the

truth will set you free. "

My experience has been that talking about The Work accomplishes

nothing, but doing The Work (answering the 6 questions and applying

the 4 questions and the turn-around) can bring me to know the truth,

to achieving forgiveness and to self-healing.

I hope that this is helpful.

Blessings, Steve D.

> Hi everyone,

>

> My name is Jan, I am a 31yo guy living in Norway and have just

> stumbled on Byron 's " The Work. " I am hoping that it can help

me

> with my emotional and mental issues. For the past ten years I have

> been dealing with depression, anxiety and personality disorders. I'm

> tired of this and am ready to make a sincere effort to live well.

>

> I want to know if The Work really *can* make a difference where

> debilitating mental issues are concerned. Having experienced bouts

of

> depersonalization and derealization I often do not know *what* I'm

> feeling or *why.* Can anyone relate to this? And do you have any

> feedback for me where The WOrk is concerned?

>

> I am cautious, yes. Previously I tried something called The Sedona

> Method to " release feelings " and all that happened was that I

> dissociated more. I do not want that to happen again. I want to get

> more in contact with myself, more grounded.

>

> So basically I need some *real* - preferably scientifically valid -

> help. Can the The Work be something for me?

>

> All input is welcome, even advice to stay away from The Work.

>

> Lastly, anyone from Norway here?

>

> best regards,

> Jan

[Guest guest]

" I want to know if The Work really *can* make a difference where

debilitating mental issues are concerned. Having experienced bouts of

depersonalization and derealization I often do not know *what* I'm

feeling or *why.* Can anyone relate to this? And do you have any

feedback for me where The WOrk is concerned? " Jan from Norway

My experience is similar, I disassociated very easily, and took to

the work very effectively (apparently). Part of being disassociated

is life isn't real for you, so Kt's confirmation validates that, and

turns it into a desirable state. So I think your caution is very well-

advised.

Kt is not a therapist, and states the work is not therapy, and that

doing the work only with the intellect can lead to feeling

disconnected. Some people like that state, you'll find plenty of'em

on this list, I guess it seems safer to them. The concern is that I'm

told a few get so disconnected doing the work that they cease to

function as independently able to look after their own needs. The

questions can be used as a great cop out, where people avoid

responsibility for their own actions. However, used lovingly to

question some of your specific thoughts that are hurting you, the

work can be very helpful and remarkably powerful. But I recommend

Polarity Therapy first as a great way for you to re-connect with your

physical body and emotions, it's been a great help to me. Hope you

have it in Norway, cheers, Tim

[Guest guest]

Dear Jan,

> Message: 5

> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:29:50 -0000

>

> Subject: Re: Newbie from Norway

>

>

>> Hi everyone,

>>

>> My name is Jan, I am a 31yo guy living in Norway and have just

>> stumbled on Byron 's " The Work. " I am hoping that it can help me

>> with my emotional and mental issues. For the past ten years I have

>> been dealing with depression, anxiety and personality disorders. I'm

>> tired of this and am ready to make a sincere effort to live well.

>>

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> Thank you for your kind answers. I'm still digesting your feedback.

>

> For now I've realised that yes, it *is* safety and support that I

> would need should I use The Work. I tried the " judge your neighbour "

> worksheet available at 's website and I didn't like the way I

> felt after it was all over. It felt like I was brainwashing myself to

> feel otherwise about my neighbour (in this case a friend). There was

> something that just didn't feel right. I can't quite put my finger on

> it. Perhaps I was just trying to change my feelings about things

> rather than making real changes in my life.

>

> I guess that's my concern. By doing the work would I simply start

> deluding myself again or would it lead to meaningful and real changes

> in my life?

What struck me here is 'again'. You delude yourself if that is what you

should do. No 'work' needed for that! ;-)

> I am envious of you guys in the US! You have an abundance of

> self-resources and support networks.

I am in Germany, and I may find others, too. There are inquiry circles,

and if there are not enough, I can open one up myself.

#I need more self-resources and support networks.

-Is that true?

Sometimes I feel like I needed more support.

-Can you absolutely know it?

No, I can't

-How do you feel with that thought? How do you treat yourself?

I feel a kind of lost. Not good. It's a weird feeling in the stomach.

I try to distract myself. Make time go by.

-Who would you be without the thought that anyone should support you

(especially )?

Someone who tries to find his own way. Without looking outside, but

inside.

Someone who is a better support for himself.

Free!!

-turnaround:

I do not need more support - that is true! Because I don't have more

support right now.

I look foward to not having support. - Yes, I do! I can help myself the

best I can if I don't have support. Until I do have more support.

I need to give more support. - As true as the above.

Thank you for your support, Jan.!