Guest guest Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Very true.rrbelloff wrote: All bodyweight exercises can build strength. The question always is, what type of strength is required and how much.And yes, BW exercises can build endurance also. Again, the training should fit the outcome you want.If you want the strength to be a competitive weightlifter, you had better lift weights.Gymnast? Learn how to move your body around.Etc.>> hi all, i was wondering if pushups build alot of strength? along with> situps and squats or is that just muscular endurance?> __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Exercises are helpful for fitness. I remember many years ago, reading a very old copy of Life or Saturday Evening Post magazine which contained a story by Rocky Marciano, World Heavyweight champ boxer from the early 1950's. Marciano, early in his career, like many fighters wasn't making a lot of money and had to do other things to make ends meet. One of them was digging ditches. He stated that he discovered first day on the job that his gym training did nothing to ready him for swinging a pick and shovel all day. The military knows this, too. You do, or did in my day, a lot of exercises, running, etc, but they include a variety of other things to balance out the fitness. Rule of thumb: If you want to be fit, exercise. If you want to be a weightlifter then lift weights, a runner, then run, or a ditch digger, then dig ditches. Don't expect one discipline to overlap much into the other. Chuck --- richard pancoast wrote: > Very true. > > rrbelloff wrote: All > bodyweight exercises can build strength. The > question always is, > what type of strength is required and how much. > > And yes, BW exercises can build endurance also. > Again, the training > should fit the outcome you want. > > If you want the strength to be a competitive > weightlifter, you had > better lift weights. > > Gymnast? Learn how to move your body around. > > Etc. > > > > > > hi all, i was wondering if pushups build alot of > strength? along with > > situps and squats or is that just muscular > endurance? > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 It seems like what it boils down to in this discussion is that " one size doesn't fit all, " so to speak, when it comes to exercise and fitness. That muscles are adaptable and need to be trained to meet the demands of the specific activity required of them. Someone mentioned they admired the the build of a boxer. I, too, have always admired the beauty of the body of a well-developed boxer. Muscular and strong yet fluid. Marvelous Marvin Hagler, in my opinion, had one heck of a great looking body. Probably still does. Rich bwbeliever Chuck Barone wrote: > Exercises are helpful for fitness. I remember many > years ago, reading a very old copy of Life or > Saturday > Evening Post magazine which contained a story by > Rocky > Marciano, World Heavyweight champ boxer from the > early > 1950's. > > Marciano, early in his career, like many fighters > wasn't making a lot of money and had to do other > things to make ends meet. One of them was digging > ditches. He stated that he discovered first day on > the > job that his gym training did nothing to ready him > for > swinging a pick and shovel all day. > > The military knows this, too. You do, or did in my > day, a lot of exercises, running, etc, but they > include a variety of other things to balance out the > fitness. > > Rule of thumb: If you want to be fit, exercise. If > you > want to be a weightlifter then lift weights, a > runner, > then run, or a ditch digger, then dig ditches. Don't > expect one discipline to overlap much into the > other. > > Chuck > --- richard pancoast wrote: > > > Very true. > > > > rrbelloff wrote: All > > bodyweight exercises can build strength. The > > question always is, > > what type of strength is required and how much. > > > > And yes, BW exercises can build endurance also. > > Again, the training > > should fit the outcome you want. > > > > If you want the strength to be a competitive > > weightlifter, you had > > better lift weights. > > > > Gymnast? Learn how to move your body around. > > > > Etc. > > > > > > > > > > hi all, i was wondering if pushups build alot of > > strength? along with > > > situps and squats or is that just muscular > > endurance? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Hi richard pancoast BAsicly, few reps of vary heavy weights makes for big muscles with not so much indurance, while lots of reps with medium weight makes for lots of indurance and medium sized weights. See Ya > You read so much that says anything beyond say, 12 > reps is useless. Yet, many athletes who are very > strong and muscular today do hundreds of pushups. > Everyday. And, they use no weights. I just read > where one does 500 reps of pushups everyday. Hershel > does thousands a day. Atlas did hundreds, > maybe more, a day. And, everyone of them were and > are very strong, very muscular with the endurance to > go the extra mile.Last year, I was doing two sets of > 100 reps each, pushups, with another hundred done > maybe 75 reps then 25, five days a week. > If it works for you and you enjoy it, go for it. I > have found the Bullworker to help give extra > strength for pushups, etc. > knuj_gse wrote: > > > > > hi all, i was wondering if pushups build > > alot of strength? along with situps and squats > > or is that just muscular endurance? > > At some point, any exercise builds strength. For > continued progress, though, one needs progressive > resistance. For the exercises you mentioned, this > usually means adding repetitions. > > There are those who say that beyond 10 repetitions, > endurance is developed, more than strength. So they > recommend adding resistance (like weights) if one > can do 10 to 15 reps of an exercise. Still, if one > does not add weight/resistance, increasing the > number > of reps -- doing them to (near) falilure -- will > still be a form of progressive resistance and there > will be an increase in strength as well as > endurance. > > Then again, why only go for one and not the other? > What use is strength if one cannot last? This is a > point pushed by Furey, who advocates body weight > exercises like the Hindu push up, Hindu squat, > and bridge, the reps for the first two reaching the > hundreds. And he enjoys pointing out how even bulky > and muscular body builders could hardly go beyond > 25 Hindu push ups or 50 Hindu squats. (In a way, I > see this reminiscent of courses like Atlas' Dynamic > Tension.) > > Gerry > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Hi rrbelloff I don't consider the weights body builder lift to be moderate. If you look at the whole spectrum morewidly, you see power lifters/olympic lifters at the vary extreme who can lift a huge amount of weight and have massive muscles with little definition. In the middle you have a gray area where at one end you have body builders like those on some magazine covers who are huge with varying degrees of definition, and at the other end body builders who chose to be more like the model or gymnist build who go for indurance and definition rather than bulk. I mean, for a lot of body builders even thouse who are not in it professionally, its all about size. If you look at the body building magazines, thats the image they are selling. Meanwhile, if you look at long indurance athletes like gymnists, runners, swimmers, etc, they don't have the size of the body builders. Instead, these athletes tend to have a little bit of size but with a lot of indurance. They have done indurance tests with arobic athletes vs body builders, and the arobic athletes were able to beat them in thongs like push ups and sit ups because, lifting heavy weights a few times doesn't build indurance. Lue Forigno knows this, I recall way back in the late 70s or early 80s when he was on the battle of the network stars when he was the ancor man for the 100 or 1000 yard relay race. I forget wich one it was, but it involved passing the baton between 3 or 4 team mates. The anouncers wondered why in the world Lue's team had him as thier ancor, they were shure he would run slow due to his bulk. However, because Lue knew the emportance of making arobic fitness as part of his exercise program, he ran several miles every day. When it was Lue's turn to recieve his baton his team was way behind and everyone expected them to loose, but he took off like a locamotive and passed other runners like they were sitting still. The anouncer got so excited he allmost swore on TV, Lue passed up team after team and came in first place if my memory serves correct. You see, Lue knew Anerobic exercise like body building and arobic exercise like running exercises different types of muscles. SOme body builders ignore the arobic exercise and even eat diets high in red meat and fat for the protien ignoring the effect it can have on thier arteries. I mean, I see some of those power lifters whose guts hang down below thier belt, and I know that can't be healthy. Its all about balance, if a power lifter includes arobic exercise and indurance lifting exercise, maybe it will increase thier overall strength. Take CAre > Well, not really. > > Experience and science shows us that lifting huge > weight for very > few reps (1-5 reps) results in fairly dense but not > large muscle > mass and great strenght. Think Olympic weight > lifters here, who are > not generally massive but lift very very heavy > weights for their > weight classes. > > On the other side of the spectrum, are BBs, who lift > moderate > weights for a LONGER duration, say 45-90 second > sets. > > It is this sub-maximal tension for a longer duration > that seems to > generate larger gains in muscle mass. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi all, i was wondering if pushups build > > > > alot of strength? along with situps and squats > > > > or is that just muscular endurance? > > > > > > At some point, any exercise builds strength. For > > > continued progress, though, one needs > progressive > > > resistance. For the exercises you mentioned, > this > > > usually means adding repetitions. > > > > > > There are those who say that beyond 10 > repetitions, > > > endurance is developed, more than strength. So > they > > > recommend adding resistance (like weights) if > one > > > can do 10 to 15 reps of an exercise. Still, if > one > > > does not add weight/resistance, increasing the > > > number > > > of reps -- doing them to (near) falilure -- will > > > > still be a form of progressive resistance and > there > > > will be an increase in strength as well as > > > endurance. > > > > > > Then again, why only go for one and not the > other? > > > What use is strength if one cannot last? This is > a > > > point pushed by Furey, who advocates body weight > > > exercises like the Hindu push up, Hindu squat, > > > and bridge, the reps for the first two reaching > the > > > hundreds. And he enjoys pointing out how even > bulky > > > and muscular body builders could hardly go > beyond > > > 25 Hindu push ups or 50 Hindu squats. (In a way, > I > > > see this reminiscent of courses like Atlas' > Dynamic > > > Tension.) > > > > > > Gerry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Hi rrbelloff > In general, one will find that lb for lb, Olympic > Lifters are MUCH > stronger than BBs. Overall, it is the training that > produces this > disparity. I agree with what your saying, I think it goes along with what I'm saying. > If I train for maximum strength, the best > methodology is to limit > the time under tension and maximize the weight. Oly > lifters > practice nearly everyday and they do many sets of > very few reps. > > Hence, as compared to BBs, they develop much more > strength per lb of > mass. > They develop strength, but to what degree do they develop indurance. The Olympic lifters do develop much more strength than body builders, but similarly body builders who focus only on heavy weights compared to the adverage person and ignore working with light weights and high reps could be missing out on exercising difernt types of muscles. What I'm saying is, rather than just having the big muscles with not that much indurance, the body builders could gain more indurance if they do as I suggest. I agree that, the olypic lifters/power lifters are at the one extreme, they focus so much on strength they have vary little indurance. They can lift 500 + lbs but how many times can they do that, how many times can they lift 205 lbs? A body builder probably can lift 250 lbs many more times than a power lifter because, a body builder does more reps and has build some indurance muscles. I think some arobic athletes could benifit from anerobic exercise as well, some could use the increased strength lifting the weights would bring to them. I'm not trying to say either athlete is better than the other, I'm just saying there are benifits to cross training. Have a good day. > BBs of course are strong compared to the average > Joe. > > Yes, some BBs use heavy weights but NOT so heavy > relative to their > bodyweight mass. If I weigh 250 and bench 350, that > is not bad at > all. > > However, you will see 150 lb Power lifters who can > bench WAY more > than 350. Hence, they are RELATIVELY much stonger > than the BBs. > > No offence, but consider putting in some paragraphs > in your posts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi richard pancoast > > > > > > > > BAsicly, few reps of vary heavy weights makes > for > > > big > > > > muscles with not so much indurance, while lots > of > > > reps > > > > with medium weight makes for lots of indurance > and > > > > medium sized weights. > > > > > > > > See Ya > > > > > > > > > You read so much that says anything beyond > say, > > > 12 > > > > > reps is useless. Yet, many athletes who are > very > > > > > strong and muscular today do hundreds of > > > pushups. > > > > > Everyday. And, they use no weights. I just > read > > > > > where one does 500 reps of pushups everyday. > > > Hershel > > > > > does thousands a day. Atlas did > hundreds, > > > > > maybe more, a day. And, everyone of them > were > > > and > > > > > are very strong, very muscular with the > > > endurance to > > > > > go the extra mile.Last year, I was doing two > > > sets of > > > > > 100 reps each, pushups, with another hundred > > > done > === message truncated === test'; " > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Hi knuj_gse I would like to read that article, I'll have to give the burpees and speed jump rope a try. Have a good day. > > You see, Lue knew Anerobic > > exercise like body building and arobic exercise > like > > running exercises different types of muscles. > > We must make a distinction here. Running is not > necessarily aerobic. Jogging (which is VERY > different > from running) is aerobic. But from your story, the > running needed by Lou Ferrigno was far from aerobic. > Such a relay race (probably 400m or less for each > runner) is definitely anaerobic (sprint). And one > does not train aerobically for such an event. > > We also have to make another distinction: aerobic > and cardiovascular exercise. Dr. Al Sears has been > showing that the two are not necessarily the same. > In fact, he shows how aerobic exercise actually > makes > our cardiovascular fitness worse. Instead, cardio > fitness is achieved anaerobically! And I've tried > and proven this on myself. > > The system is a variation of interval training. Do > an exercise that you can't sustain for one or two > minutes (sprint, speed bike, speed jump rope, > burpees, etc., that is, max out your anaerobic > capacity), rest or reduce intensity for a minute > or so, and repeat cycle for one or two more times. > Such a workout would not last for more than 12 > minutes, but the effect on one's cardiovascular > fitness is quick and dramatic. I saw a dramatic > improvement in my own cardio fitness in less than > two weeks! (Judged by my own feeling during my > bicycle commutes that take me up a steep slope.) > > So we should dump the aerobic myth. We should > develop our cardiovascular fitness, but aerobics > is not the way to go. Instead, it's anaerobics > that best develops our cardio fitness. Try it > yourselves. I'm sure that you'll see the big > difference in a couple of weeks. And you won't > have to spend so much time as you would for > aerobics. > > I'll send a copy of Dr. Sears' Newsletter wherein > he details his cardiovascular fitness program as > an attachment in a separate post to the group. And > I'll see if I can add it to the " Files " section. > > > SOme body builders ignore the arobic exercise and > > even eat diets high in red meat and fat for the > > protien ignoring the effect it can have on thier > > arteries. > > Another myth we must clear up. Fat and cholesterol > in the diet hardly affect blood cholesterol/LDL > levels. All biochemical and physiological pathways > show that blood cholesterol is most affected by > blood glucose (mostly from dietary carbs). This is > emphatically proven by the action of the cholesterol > lowering statin drugs: they inhibit the liver enzyme > that converts glucose by-products to cholesterol. > (Unfortunately, statins also inhibit production of > coenzyme Q10, so takers of these drugs may lower > their blood cholesterol level but still die of a > heart attack.) > > Gerry > > test'; " > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Hi knuj_gse I would like to read that article, I'll have to give the burpees and speed jump rope a try. Have a good day. > > You see, Lue knew Anerobic > > exercise like body building and arobic exercise > like > > running exercises different types of muscles. > > We must make a distinction here. Running is not > necessarily aerobic. Jogging (which is VERY > different > from running) is aerobic. But from your story, the > running needed by Lou Ferrigno was far from aerobic. > Such a relay race (probably 400m or less for each > runner) is definitely anaerobic (sprint). And one > does not train aerobically for such an event. > > We also have to make another distinction: aerobic > and cardiovascular exercise. Dr. Al Sears has been > showing that the two are not necessarily the same. > In fact, he shows how aerobic exercise actually > makes > our cardiovascular fitness worse. Instead, cardio > fitness is achieved anaerobically! And I've tried > and proven this on myself. > > The system is a variation of interval training. Do > an exercise that you can't sustain for one or two > minutes (sprint, speed bike, speed jump rope, > burpees, etc., that is, max out your anaerobic > capacity), rest or reduce intensity for a minute > or so, and repeat cycle for one or two more times. > Such a workout would not last for more than 12 > minutes, but the effect on one's cardiovascular > fitness is quick and dramatic. I saw a dramatic > improvement in my own cardio fitness in less than > two weeks! (Judged by my own feeling during my > bicycle commutes that take me up a steep slope.) > > So we should dump the aerobic myth. We should > develop our cardiovascular fitness, but aerobics > is not the way to go. Instead, it's anaerobics > that best develops our cardio fitness. Try it > yourselves. I'm sure that you'll see the big > difference in a couple of weeks. And you won't > have to spend so much time as you would for > aerobics. > > I'll send a copy of Dr. Sears' Newsletter wherein > he details his cardiovascular fitness program as > an attachment in a separate post to the group. And > I'll see if I can add it to the " Files " section. > > > SOme body builders ignore the arobic exercise and > > even eat diets high in red meat and fat for the > > protien ignoring the effect it can have on thier > > arteries. > > Another myth we must clear up. Fat and cholesterol > in the diet hardly affect blood cholesterol/LDL > levels. All biochemical and physiological pathways > show that blood cholesterol is most affected by > blood glucose (mostly from dietary carbs). This is > emphatically proven by the action of the cholesterol > lowering statin drugs: they inhibit the liver enzyme > that converts glucose by-products to cholesterol. > (Unfortunately, statins also inhibit production of > coenzyme Q10, so takers of these drugs may lower > their blood cholesterol level but still die of a > heart attack.) > > Gerry > > test'; " > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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