Guest guest Posted April 11, 2003 Report Share Posted April 11, 2003 Hi I have a problem with my daughter guessing in her drills. We're working on " touch (color , shape, etc). She knows the material, and sometimes will get 100% on this. However, it then drops back to 40 or 50% most of the time, with an occasional 80 or 90. The home therapists are now trying to vary the materials, which seems to be helping a little but there's still a lot of guessing going on. She could probably have new material every few weeks if it wasn't for this. Any advice? Should we go ahead and introduce the new material anyway? Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2003 Report Share Posted April 11, 2003 In a message dated 4/11/03 10:27:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, TreatAutism@... writes: > Questions about that: > How many items are in the field at a time? Have the therapists noticed any > kind of a pattern in how she is selecting her answers? How are these being > taught? I would suggest NOT varying the items too much, but since I don't > know exactly what you mean when you say they're varying items, I can't > really speak to that. If you answer my questions I can try to offer some > solutions. Only two or three. Sometimes she guesses to the right, and sometimes to the left, but she is consistent within the drill. She will touch the wrong card and then immediately self-correct. We were using color and shape cards, and to try to make it more interesting we're using colored markers at present, and we have some colored shapes to introduce next. > > >She could probably have new material every few weeks if it wasn't for > this. > >Any advice? Should we go ahead and introduce the new material anyway? > > Not if you're running a data-based program and may have to go to court > eventually - you have to be able to show that you followed the data in > everything when you go to court, and 'she just wasn't doing it > consistently' > isn't a data-based reason for a decision. > > I wasn't planning on going to court over this, as she IS learning. Three months or so ago she didn't have a clue on any of this. She can now distinguish receptively red from blue most of the time, circle from square, and numbers 1-6. I'd just like to have some ideas on how to stop the guessing game! Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2003 Report Share Posted April 11, 2003 In a message dated 4/11/03 11:59:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, TreatAutism@... writes: > > Is she being reinforced for self-correction? > No. If she gets it wrong the first time, it's wrong - period. > Are you using No-No-Prompt or Errorless Learning? Lovaas-type or AVB? No-No-Prompt. Lovaas type. > > I was thinking of going to court for more funding, or in the future to get > appropriate services from the school. I've heard tons about this sort of > thing. > We're very lucky. All her therapy is being funded by the SD. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2003 Report Share Posted April 11, 2003 > Only two or three. Sometimes she guesses to the right, and sometimes to the > left, but she is consistent within the drill. She will touch the wrong card > and then > immediately self-correct. We were using color and shape cards, and to try to > make it more interesting we're using colored markers at present, and we have > some colored shapes to introduce next. Okay, with a field of two you're setting yourself up for incorrect responses - she's going to get 50% every time, because if the answer isn't one, it's obviously the other. I'd stick with a field of three. Is she being reinforced for self-correction? If so, the therapists are probably teaching her to get it wrong. You might want to have them consequate immediately upon any response - if she touches the wrong one, it's a wrong answer, and she shouldn't have a chance to move on to the correct one for praise. Are you using No-No-Prompt or Errorless Learning? Lovaas-type or AVB? That will impact what I'm about to suggest, but here's the way I would teach colours (keep in mind this is how I would do it in this situation, and I haven't seen your child so I'm going on what you've told me, which isn't a whole lot). Teaching colours 1. Mass Trial 'red' in a field of one. SD= " Touch red. " Hand-Over-Hand initially, then fade the prompt so that she is doing it independently. The item can be varied (using red shapes so all red but a different shape every time). 2. Mass Trial 'red' in a field of two - one visual distractor. Make sure the distractor is a different colour. You might want to try green, just to be sure she's not colour blind. The items should be the same but can be varied from trial to trial (both circles, then both squares, then both triangles). 3. Mass Trial 'red' in a field of three - two visual distractors. Again, make sure three colours are represented here. Same criteria for items. 4. Mass Trial 'blue' in a field of one, as described for 'red'. 5. Mass Trial 'blue' in a field of two, as described for 'red'. Try yellow as a distractor here, as blue-yellow colour blindness is rare but happens. 6. Mass Trial 'blue' in a field of three, with 'red' in the field. 7. Mass Trial 'yellow' in a field of one/two/three, as described for 'red' and 'blue'. 8. Randomly Rotate 'red', 'blue', and 'yellow' in a field of three. Keep the shapes in the field the same; the only variable should be the colour. Introduce all future colours in a field of three (Mass Trial colour in a field of three - don't begin at field of one stage). Other tips: clear the field after each trial, whether correct or incorrect. Make sure the colours are always in a different spot when you place them in the field, but be sure that you don't follow a pattern with the target item. If she gets a colour incorrect, follow through as your teaching method dictates (NNP or EL) by repeating same target the correct number of times, but still change up the field between, especially when in a field of two. > I wasn't planning on going to court over this, as she IS learning. Three > months or so ago she didn't have a clue on any of this. She can now distinguish > receptively red from blue most of the time, circle from square, and numbers > 1-6. I'd just like to have some ideas on how to stop the guessing game! I was thinking of going to court for more funding, or in the future to get appropriate services from the school. I've heard tons about this sort of thing. -Janna ABA Therapist, North Vancouver, BC, Canada BMus, BAPsych **************************************************************************** ***************** " Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you. " - President Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522) " Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves and breakers have swept over me. " - Psalm 42:7 " Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water passes through... " - Nichole Nordeman, " river god " (wide eyed, 1998) " Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like to be your hero, I am a mighty little man! " - Steve Burns, " Mighty Little Man " (Songs For Dustmites, unreleased) http://crosswinds.net/~jlhasd **************************************************************************** ***************** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2003 Report Share Posted April 11, 2003 > > Is she being reinforced for self-correction? > No. If she gets it wrong the first time, it's wrong - period. GOOD. > > Are you using No-No-Prompt or Errorless Learning? Lovaas-type or AVB? > No-No-Prompt. Lovaas type. Okay, so if you try the method I outlined and use the NNP method, you should hopefully see results fairly quickly. That is, assuming it's different from the way you've been doing it. > > I was thinking of going to court for more funding, or in the future to get > > appropriate services from the school. I've heard tons about this sort of > > thing. > We're very lucky. All her therapy is being funded by the SD. That's WONDERFUL! -Janna ABA Therapist, North Vancouver, BC, Canada BMus, BAPsych **************************************************************************** ***************** " Home is not a place. It is wherever your passion takes you. " - President Sheridan, Babylon 5 (Objects At Rest, Production #522) " Deep calls to deep in the roar of Your waterfall; all of your waves and breakers have swept over me. " - Psalm 42:7 " Rolling river God, little stones are smooth, only once the water passes through... " - Nichole Nordeman, " river god " (wide eyed, 1998) " Nobody else is stronger than I am, today I moved a mountain! I'd like to be your hero, I am a mighty little man! " - Steve Burns, " Mighty Little Man " (Songs For Dustmites, unreleased) http://crosswinds.net/~jlhasd **************************************************************************** ***************** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2003 Report Share Posted April 12, 2003 Sondra, Thank you for your suggestions, but we no longer do discreet trial. We started it early in her therapy, its been almost 2 years. I think it helped her in the beginning especially with compliance (learning to sit and listen), but after about four months, we decided there had to be another way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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