Re: Standards Versus Judgement

[Guest guest]

The bottom line for me is that I am confident that my nada did not meet the

very basic tests of competent parenting (providing a stable, loving home,

acting with children in an age appropriate fashion, having impulse control,

not projecting every problem onto your child).........I call that having

standards; I brought a child into this world with the knowledge that there

were expectations of me to act appropriately. Judgement is something

different to me; it is still engaging with the nada in your life and being

subjected to the roller coaster ride that living with her once was.

I don't judge, I set limits.

Just my two cents,

>

>Reply-To: ModOasis

>To: <ModOasis >

>Subject: Re: Judging?

>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 06:49:12 -0500

>

> > There is so much talk about not judging other people and I am

> > wondering how we, as KO's, can not be quilty of judging others,

> > which I do agree keeps us trapped, and still recover from our BP

> > parent/parents?

> > I read the posts and while I don't feel so alone I do start to bring

> > up old feelings and find myself dwelling on the pain and hurt.

> > Listening to Wayne Dryer (Spelling?)and he makes alot of sence about

> > the reasons for not judging if you value your own mental/spiritual

> > health. Any thoughts? Vicki

>

>

>I've never been a judgmental person. I know the hurt of being judged,

>and

>the unfairness of my mothers judgments , so I made a conscious effort when

>I

>was young to NOT judge others.

>

>Jackie

>

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[Guest guest]

> Judgement is something

> different to me; it is still engaging with the nada in your life and

being

> subjected to the roller coaster ride that living with her once was.

> I don't judge, I set limits.

> Just my two cents,

>

Even in setting limits we are making judgements. Judgements on what we will

accept, wont accept. Judgements on what limits to set and where our boundaries

are. We use JUDGEMENT about past behaviors as an indicator of future

behavior to stipulate what standards we set.

Main Entry: judg·ment

Variant(s): or judge.ment /'j & j-m & nt/

Function: noun

Date: 13th century

1 a : a formal utterance of an authoritative opinion b : an opinion so

pronounced

2 a : a formal decision given by a court b (1) : an obligation (as a debt)

created by the decree of a court (2) : a certificate evidencing such a decree

3 a : capitalized : the final judging of mankind by God b : a divine

sentence or decision; specifically : a calamity held to be sent by God

4 a : the process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and

comparing b : an opinion or estimate so formed

5 a : the capacity for judging : _DISCERNMENT_

(aol://4344:1708.D0019223.40127257.672502772/) b : the exercise of this

capacity

6 : a proposition stating something believed or asserted

It is just tragic that we have to even set these boundaries or

standards. No child should ever grow up to be forced into judgeing the behavior

of the

one person who was responsible to setting the standards and positive

examples of how we should have grown up to behave.

Main Entry: [1]stan·dard

Pronunciation: 'stan-d & rd

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Old French estandard rallying point,

standard, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English standan to stand and to Old

English ord point —more at _ODD_

(aol://4344:1708.D0047283.40155317.672503447/)

Date: 12th century

1 : a conspicuous object (as a banner) formerly carried at the top of a pole

and used to mark a rallying point especially in battle or to serve as an

emblem

2 a : a long narrow tapering flag that is personal to an individual or

corporation and bears heraldic devices b : the personal flag of the head of a

state or of a member of a royal family c : an organization flag carried by a

mounted or motorized military unit d : _BANNER_

(aol://4344:1708.D0005144.40113178.672502456/)

3 : something established by authority, custom, or general consent as a

model or example : _CRITERION_ (aol://4344:1708.D0016065.40124099.672502699/)

4 : something set up and established by authority as a rule for the measure

of quantity, weight, extent, value, or quality

5 a : the fineness and legally fixed weight of the metal used in coins b :

the basis of value in a monetary system

6 : a structure built for or serving as a base or support

7 a : a shrub or herb grown with an erect main stem so that it forms or

resembles a tree b : a fruit tree grafted on a stock that does not induce

dwarfing

8 a : the large odd upper petal of a papilionaceous flower (as the pea) b :

one of the three inner usually erect and incurved petals of an iris

9 : a musical composition (as a song) that has become a part of the standard

repertoire

- stan·dard·less adjective

synonyms _STANDARD_ (aol://4344:1708.D0066988.40175025.672606037/) ,

_CRITERION_ (aol://4344:1708.D0016065.40124099.672502699/) , _GAUGE_

(aol://4344:1708.D0028225.40136259.672502977/) , _YARDSTICK_

(aol://4344:1708.D0079902.40187939.672606391/) , _TOUCHSTONE_

(aol://4344:1708.D0072773.40180810.672606201/)

mean a means of determining what a thing should be. _STANDARD_

(aol://4344:1708.D0066988.40175025.672606037/) applies to any definite rule,

principle, or

measure established by authority <standards of behavior>. _CRITERION_

(aol://4344:1708.D0016065.40124099.672502699/) may apply to anything used as a

test

of quality whether formulated as a rule or principle or not <questioned the

critic's criteria for excellence>. _GAUGE_

(aol://4344:1708.D0028225.40136259.672502977/) applies to a means of testing a

particular dimension (as

thickness, depth, diameter) or figuratively a particular quality or aspect

<polls as

a gauge of voter dissatisfaction>. _YARDSTICK_

(aol://4344:1708.D0079902.40187939.672606391/) is an informal substitute for

_CRITERION_

(aol://4344:1708.D0016065.40124099.672502699/) that suggests quantity more

often than quality

<housing construction as a yardstick of economic growth>. _TOUCHSTONE_

(aol://4344:1708.D0072773.40180810.672606201/) suggests a simple test of the

authenticity or value of something intangible <fine service is one touchstone

of

a first-class restaurant>.

_Pronunciation Key_ (aol://4344:1708.PRONFORM.40208078.686432007/)

[Guest guest]

< That's why I referenced " standards " .......like the word better than

< judgement, which appears make people focus on the negative aspects of the

< word.

Thats what Im trying to point out, WE ARE ALL SAYING THE EXACT SAME thing

just trying to paint it in the prettiest words. lol. WE all mean the exact same

thing. You say tomAtoes, I say tomatoes....

I just see the obsession in making sure you say " the right thing " the

right way ,as a flea we have picked up from our nadas. So many times I have

seen my own nada spend time calculating and planning her words just so

carefully to " sound right " . To make suree it doesnt sound l;ike the wrong

thing to

say. To manipulate situations and people , and most of all herself. Using

niceties to protect herself from the aspects of human nature that may not

always feel nice but are neccessary.

I say if the grass is green , just call it green! Sure it may sound

smarter and more enlightened to some to go on and on about how the grass

appears a

certain way because of processes in nature that blend the colors yellow and

blue by such and such.... ITS STILL JUST GREEN!!!

Sometimes things just are as they are , wether we like it or not because

we still go to sleep at night with our own feelings in our own heads

regardless of what other people may think of how we feel or think ( truth is

they

probably dont think much at all about what we are thinking or if its " right or

wrong " because they have their own lives ) Regardless of what syllables and

sounds we wrap those feelings into because I doubt any language can come up

with any word eloquent enough to fully house our emotions when it comes to

nada.

Yes I will be fearless enough to admit it with all its grit, I JUDGE

her and all of her actions . I JUDGE them as cruel , petty, immature, self

destructive, unacceptable, and even vile sometimes. I JUDGE the things she does

and the way she hurts others recklessly in defending herself with no regards

for anyone else she has to hurt to defend herself.

I JUDGE the fact she pushed my sister in such a tight corner to defend

herself and to trap my sister back into her web that sis hung herself to

escape what seemed like an endless grasp, as one of the most despicable things

nada has ever done. ( Yes I know my sister CHOOSE her death , no one else, but

in many ways she was born with the noose around her her neck the moment she

had nada give birth to her)

I can and will JUDGE the fact that she would rather be right than be a

mother. I JUDGE her for never giving us what every child has a RIGHT to, and

that is the unconditional love, stability, safety and support of a parent.

I will JUDGE that she hates herself so much she cant love me or anyone

else no matter how hard we try to reach her., because she choses immediate

gratification for herself over long term security and warmth for us.

That being said I PITY her too. PITY her as a shadow of who she could be

or once had the possibility of becoming. PITY her because she is so busy

manipulating outsiders she has sacrificed the love of her family for the praise

of strangers who do not love her. I PITY her because she is filled with an

emptyness no one call fill.

I PITY the fact she has had to bury a child , that she had chosen to

sacrifice her children one by one to uphold her defenses and I PITY that she

doesnt even realize it. I JUDGE her and I PITY her that she wants to live in a

constant state of PITY for herself rather than take the painfull challenge

of change on.

Anyone else can call thier feelings whatever they want or find

politically correct . I have nothing to prove , nothing to lose. and only the

truth

to discover.

My Grass Is GREEN, thats all. JUST GREEN. ( and a little yellow in some

patches, with a couple weeds , but thats beyond the point ..)

You can call it tomAtoes , Ill call it tomatoes.

[Guest guest]

That may work too!

Debbie

Re: Standards Versus Judgement

> LMAO , Debbie. A thorn! LOL, How about a Venus fly trap? Buzzzzzz

buzzzzzz

>

>

>