Re: Two more questions from Tina

[Guest guest]

Tina, hi, my son exaggerates the other thing is, because he sometimes does not have the greatest grasp of communication skills, he will say something he doesn't mean, and then he will try to explain what he ment, by turning his words around, which sounds like he his trying to be manipulative. he will repeat things out of context, but not purposely. his reality is different also, so when he relates it to others, it will sound like a "lie". it's hard to tell sometimes, but i just keep working on his perception, instead of just punishment. he gets punished, but i also have to decipher what he is really trying to say and what he has perceived as well. nt kids usually know when they did something wrong, aspi usually don't know why they are being punished, that is one reasons, they need special care. meg

[Guest guest]

nt kids usually know when they did something wrong, aspi usually

> > don't know why they are being punished, that is one reasons, they

need

> > special care. meg

Gosh I can relate to this! In our family we spank, but I learned

early on that he didn't connect the " crime " with the punishment. If I

spanked him, he would say, " Why did you hit me? " Also he doesn't

connect rewards. The other two did the summer reading scheme at the

library, but was just not interested, not connecting the rewards

with the reading he'd done. However, I now know what doesn't work,

but I have yet to find what does work. Giving him extra time and

patience does help a bit.

Also whatever he does he does slowly and to perfection. If I ask my

oldest to clean the bathroom, for instance, he does it in under 60

seconds and obviously very badly. But ask , and he takes half an

hour and when he comes out the bathroom is sparkling.

Tina

[Guest guest]

Pat has a slender grasp on the truth; he's getting better. I think the

world is a little mushy for them, so they're not always sure what the truth

IS. Some of the untruths he tells are unfavorable to himself... but mostly

the other way <g>

He's third, here.

> From: frinh@...

> Reply-To: autism-aspergers

> Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 11:11:41 -0000

> To: autism-aspergers

> Subject: Two more questions from Tina

>

> Does your AS child lie? I read somewhere that they can't lie, but

> will lie and then convince himself that what he is saying is

> true and then argue fiercely about what *he* considers the truth.

>

> What's the birth order of your AS child? I have two friends with

> autistic children and they are second born, and so is . Is this a

> coincidence, or are AS children more likely to be second born?

>

> Tina

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is something they can learn, however, as they mature.

> From: frinh@...

> Reply-To: autism-aspergers

> Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 11:46:19 -0000

> To: autism-aspergers

> Subject: Re: Two more questions from Tina

>

> nt kids usually know when they did something wrong, aspi usually

>>> don't know why they are being punished, that is one reasons, they

> need

>>> special care. meg

>

> Gosh I can relate to this! In our family we spank, but I learned

> early on that he didn't connect the " crime " with the punishment. If I

> spanked him, he would say, " Why did you hit me? " Also he doesn't

> connect rewards. The other two did the summer reading scheme at the

> library, but was just not interested, not connecting the rewards

> with the reading he'd done. However, I now know what doesn't work,

> but I have yet to find what does work. Giving him extra time and

> patience does help a bit.

>

> Also whatever he does he does slowly and to perfection. If I ask my

> oldest to clean the bathroom, for instance, he does it in under 60

> seconds and obviously very badly. But ask , and he takes half an

> hour and when he comes out the bathroom is sparkling.

>

> Tina

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

frinh@... wrote:

> Does your AS child lie? I read somewhere that they can't lie, but

> will lie and then convince himself that what he is saying is

> true and then argue fiercely about what *he* considers the truth.

Oh, yes, Louie will lie, It didn't start till his late teens, when he

finally figured out how lying works. He just isn't real good at it, and

it's very very obvious when he is telling less than the truth. Which is

a good thing.

> What's the birth order of your AS child? I have two friends with

> autistic children and they are second born, and so is . Is this a

> coincidence, or are AS children more likely to be second born?

I think it's probably coincidence. Louie is second born, but there's 11

years between him and his elder sister (we only have the two), so he's a

lot more like an only child......as was his sis until he was born.

Annie, who loves ya annie@...

--

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary

safety deserve neither liberty

nor safety.

- lin

[Guest guest]

<< Does your AS child lie? I read somewhere that they can't lie, but

> will lie and then convince himself that what he is saying is

> true and then argue fiercely about what *he* considers the truth.

>>

does this too. One example that comes quickly to mind is

homework last year. We went through the " she didn't tell me, " " the I

forgot.... I needed to bring it home, forgot I had to do it(after being

reminded everyday for 2 weeks), Mrs. K said I didn't have to do it(leaving

out the part about if I wanted to get an F), oh and let's not forget the I

don't have any homework tonight. All of these were tried at school as well

as a few... the my mother said I didn't have to do it, I didn't have a

dictionary, pencil, ruler or whatever other thing he didn't want to find that

day.

He will flat lie to me about taking his medicine. I would like to say

he has lied to me about things that have happened at school. I'm not sure

where to divide the part that he doesn't see the way I do and the part that

is just plain fiction. The only time I can remember him lying not in his

favor is if he didn't realize the full extent of what he was saying. (These

cases are usually funny because he is trying to get out of something and it

backfires.) Most people that have dealt with him for any period of time

realize that he is a master of manipulation.

[Guest guest]

I don't know about the birth order theory since my AS son is my oldest....as for lying I don't think really understands the concept of what a lie is ....I know that he is starting to get an attitude like a teenager with the closing himself off in his room with his music and mumbling under his breath....I think its kinda funny he's only 9 yrs old but starting on the teenager path

Two more questions from Tina

Does your AS child lie? I read somewhere that they can't lie, but

will lie and then convince himself that what he is saying is

true and then argue fiercely about what *he* considers the truth.

What's the birth order of your AS child? I have two friends with

autistic children and they are second born, and so is . Is this a

coincidence, or are AS children more likely to be second born?

Tina

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/8/01 10:33:15 PM !!!First Boot!!!,

foley@... writes:

<< I realized later that he's clinically depressed, >>

I understand that depression can be a whole different battle for these kids.

Fortunately, that is not the case for . He was in essence putting

more work into avoiding his homework than what it would have taken to do it

to begin with. He was doing it deliberately. And probably on more than one

occasion it got him out of it or at least put it off a day. I realized after

I sent the message before that I may have sounded cold and heartless. But

believe me it took us a while to realize what was going on. When it came

down to it she was writing down his homework for him... no problem that he

didn't have time to do it, he forgot or whatever.. she did it for him. He

would tear it out of the book and throw it away (this HAD to be a deliberate

act) and came home and told me he didn't have it and couldn't do his

homework. Or she had watched him put the book in his bag (but she didn't see

him take it out again) and he didn't have it so he couldn't do it. And then

there was the I don't understand so I can't do it (this was reasonably close

to the truth, he knew enough about it to know he didn't want to do it and

hadn't paid attention, she knew what we wanted when she got the call on her

cell phone). Eventually he figured out that I was going to call or she was

going to call and he wasn't going to get out of it. I will say I called one

time when he was actually telling the truth that he didn't have any homework,

I felt bad, and she laughed. But I guess all in all one time out of all of

them is not bad. I will also say that there was not too much homework or too

hard homework or anything like that. Looking back at it now I can almost

laugh about the effort he put into it, but at the time it was happening it

was not funny!

[Guest guest]

Yes. Pat too is a master of manipulation. But...

I'm in some pain this afternoon. I met Pat (AS, age 19) by arrangement for

lunch at a local restaurant, and we sort of let our hair down. He told me

that he has little faith in his own ability to run his life. " I have no

confidence in myself, " he said. He said as well that he feels " left out "

when he gets together with his old high school friends and sees them

working, or going to school, while he's afraid to start his life.

I realized later that he's clinically depressed, and made an appointment for

him to get medical help. The lying, the passivity, the inability to manage

his physical surroundings... these are symptoms of depression, not of AS.

I have a friend whose (nt) child of 16 recently killed herself. (The Mom

found the body...!)

Pat has some reasons to be depressed. But looking at him over the lunch

table, so beautiful, so intelligent, so capable, I thought, he has some

reasons NOT to be depressed too, and these are more important...

> From: Sndreamer@...

> Reply-To: autism-aspergers

> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:23:54 EDT

> To: autism-aspergers

> Subject: Re: Two more questions from Tina

>

>

> << Does your AS child lie? I read somewhere that they can't lie, but

>> will lie and then convince himself that what he is saying is

>> true and then argue fiercely about what *he* considers the truth.

>>>

>

> does this too. One example that comes quickly to mind is

> homework last year. We went through the " she didn't tell me, " " the I

> forgot.... I needed to bring it home, forgot I had to do it(after being

> reminded everyday for 2 weeks), Mrs. K said I didn't have to do it(leaving

> out the part about if I wanted to get an F), oh and let's not forget the I

> don't have any homework tonight. All of these were tried at school as well

> as a few... the my mother said I didn't have to do it, I didn't have a

> dictionary, pencil, ruler or whatever other thing he didn't want to find that

> day.

> He will flat lie to me about taking his medicine. I would like to say

> he has lied to me about things that have happened at school. I'm not sure

> where to divide the part that he doesn't see the way I do and the part that

> is just plain fiction. The only time I can remember him lying not in his

> favor is if he didn't realize the full extent of what he was saying. (These

> cases are usually funny because he is trying to get out of something and it

> backfires.) Most people that have dealt with him for any period of time

> realize that he is a master of manipulation.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

doesn't lie, but it could be that he just hasn't learned how to lie yet. LOL!

is our only child.

Mommy to (8/20/97)http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/2654/Keep smiling! People will wonder what you're up to!

Two more questions from Tina

Does your AS child lie? I read somewhere that they can't lie, but will lie and then convince himself that what he is saying is true and then argue fiercely about what *he* considers the truth.What's the birth order of your AS child? I have two friends with autistic children and they are second born, and so is . Is this a coincidence, or are AS children more likely to be second born?Tina

[Guest guest]

is a perfectionist too. He gets all upset with himself if he does something and it isn't perfect. Sometimes he won't try to do something because he says he "can't", meaning he's afraid it won't be perfect.

Mommy to (8/20/97)http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/2654/Keep smiling! People will wonder what you're up to!

Re: Two more questions from Tina

nt kids usually know when they did something wrong, aspi usually > > don't know why they are being punished, that is one reasons, they need > > special care. megGosh I can relate to this! In our family we spank, but I learned early on that he didn't connect the "crime" with the punishment. If I spanked him, he would say, "Why did you hit me?" Also he doesn't connect rewards. The other two did the summer reading scheme at the library, but was just not interested, not connecting the rewards with the reading he'd done. However, I now know what doesn't work, but I have yet to find what does work. Giving him extra time and patience does help a bit.Also whatever he does he does slowly and to perfection. If I ask my oldest to clean the bathroom, for instance, he does it in under 60 seconds and obviously very badly. But ask , and he takes half an hour and when he comes out the bathroom is sparkling.Tina