Re: SWOE first 30 pages

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi!

>

> I got the book after all, and have read the first 30 pages of it.

> First I felt anger - do I have to undestand her again?! I have

tried

> to understand her all my life, I am so tired of that, but I do see

> that it is a must if I want to get ahead with all of this for

myself.

>

Hi BM,

I think KO's should be very careful when attempting to understand

nadas. It is easy to start feeling sorry for them, feel responsible

for them, and nadas will pick up on that and hoover away. I think

once we have distanced ourselves and gained tremendous inner

strength and stability we are more able to have some compassion and

understanding. I have found that it doesn't really matter WHY they

are toxic, they are toxic. It's like staring at a venomous snake and

wondering why it will kill me; is it so important to understand the

snake or save myself?

I will never understand bp behavior completely and it isn't my job

to understand and have compassion for abusive people, that is THEIR

job! I have said it many times, I don't care for SWOE because it

seems to be more about learning to tolerate bp's bullshit than

taking back your life. I know their are good parts in it, but it

seems to be for people who want to stay with a bp person at any cost

and how to do that. Taking back my life (as the title of SWOE states)

for me, meant running for my life (literally) in the opposite

direction of nada.

Be careful when feeling compassion for a nada, THAT is dangerous

territory and enforces the very brainwashing beliefs that we need to

undo: that poor nada is misunderstood.... Poor nada will eat you for

dinner........take care,

[Guest guest]

> Hi and All,

>

> SWOE wasn't written just for us KOs. SWOE was written about

> *high-functioning* BPs who are/were in a *chosen* relationship

with a

> BP. We KOs are/were in an *unchosen* relationship and the nadas of

those

> on this list are mostly *low-functioning*.

I think that non bps who are in " chosen " relationships can be as

brainwashed as KO's and they can be just as stuck, emotionally and

mentally, as a child. They may have the money to walk out the door

and are old enough to do so, but they can be just as lost in the FOG

as children. Also, I am not sure the high functioning bp's are less

toxic than low functioning, maybe they just hide it better to the

world, but for the non's living with them, it is just as bad. (?)

(dunno, I think my nada was considered high functioning AND highly

toxic)

I think SWOE is a book that could help me NOW that I broke through

all of the brainwashing and ended contact and can see all of it

clearly, (and nada is dead) but in the beginning it is so easy to

fall prey to pity and a sense of responsibility for the bp and that

is where SWOE, imo, can be dangerous.

In the beginning we NEED to be angry and swing to the other side of

the nada pendulum for a while and give voice to all the rage and

injustices we lived through and there is no room for nada and her

illness on that side. That is OUR time and in that place it doesn't

matter why nada is sick or even that she is sick, it only matters

that we give attention and care to ourselves.

That is why I get a little frustrated when new people read SWOE and

many seem to have the same reaction, guilt and anger, because while

SWOE has good points, overall it asks us to understand the person

abusing us.

Further, there are a couple parts that seem to ask the non to

caretake the bp's feelings through interpreting the bp's abusive

statements and rephrase them into what the bp " really meant " and

that seems like co-dependency and enabling to me.

Just my opinion, and even though I don't agree with all of SWOE, I

have tremendous respect for Randi and you and all the moderators for

promoting awareness of bpd, your committment to the cause and the

free support offered here.

Take care,

>

> The parts of SWOE that are applicable to KOs are parts of Sections

1 and

> 2, and chapter 11.

> - Section 1 is about Understanding BPD Behavior: the BP's inner

world,

> making sense out of the chaos, and how BP's behavior affects Nons

(and KOs).

> - Section 2 is about Taking Back Control of Your Life (which we

KOs

> never had in the first place) by making changes in ourself,

setting

> boundaries, and asserting our needs. This protects us KOs against

future

> interactions with other ppl with personality disorders.

> - Chapter 11 is about distortion campaigns, which our nadas do to

us KOs

> when we are no longer controllable by them. For me, the compassion

stuff

> came later (after my BPD/NPD nada and hubby were dead) and could

no

> longer hurt me.

>

> > Be careful when feeling compassion for a nada, THAT is dangerous

> > territory and enforces the very brainwashing beliefs that we

need to

> > undo: that poor nada is misunderstood.... Poor nada will eat you

for

> > dinner........take care,

>

> Yes, is right. Our nadas have all feasted on us KOs. They

were

> supposed to love us but instead they did the only thing they knew

how -

> that is, eat us as a McKO meal.

>

> - Edith

[Guest guest]

>

> > Hi and All,

> >

> > SWOE wasn't written just for us KOs. SWOE was written about

> > *high-functioning* BPs who are/were in a *chosen* relationship

> with a

> > BP. We KOs are/were in an *unchosen* relationship and the nadas

of

> those

> > on this list are mostly *low-functioning*.

>

> I think that non bps who are in " chosen " relationships can be as

> brainwashed as KO's and they can be just as stuck, emotionally and

> mentally, as a child. They may have the money to walk out the door

> and are old enough to do so, but they can be just as lost in the

FOG

> as children. Also, I am not sure the high functioning bp's are

less

> toxic than low functioning, maybe they just hide it better to the

> world, but for the non's living with them, it is just as bad. (?)

> (dunno, I think my nada was considered high functioning AND highly

> toxic)

******Me too, nada was HF and definitly toxic. Ironically when I

told her I needed a bit of space and not to contact me until I

contacted her she said " I'm not a toxic person, why are you treating

me like this. " FOG. Ya, the hard thing about a HF nada is it can

be even harder to tell if it's you or her because your gut knows

she's being crazy, but the rest of the world may only see

her " public face. " I know one of my friend's thought I was just a

complaining princess until her car overheated near my house and when

I came with water to help her, nada came out of the house and yelled

at me that I needed to come inside and clean the bathroom. I tried

to explain that I needed to help my friend with her car first, but

she would not take no for an answer!

>

> I think SWOE is a book that could help me NOW that I broke through

> all of the brainwashing and ended contact and can see all of it

> clearly, (and nada is dead) but in the beginning it is so easy to

> fall prey to pity and a sense of responsibility for the bp and

that

> is where SWOE, imo, can be dangerous.

>

> In the beginning we NEED to be angry and swing to the other side

of

> the nada pendulum for a while and give voice to all the rage and

> injustices we lived through and there is no room for nada and her

> illness on that side. That is OUR time and in that place it

doesn't

> matter why nada is sick or even that she is sick, it only matters

> that we give attention and care to ourselves.

*****This is so true, I am in this angry, withdrawn from nada stage

right now.