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Re: Pro Smacking Limits

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that's your opinion, I don't agree.

Jackie

> As a parent I think it is completely unacceptable to smack, hit, whip,

spank

> or wound any children in any form or fashion, PERIOD. Thats my stance and

I

> stand by it to the degree I will divorce my husband before I even allow

him

> to lay hands on my child.

>

> There is NOTHING to be learned by using physical violence against

anyone.

> You wouldnt smack another adult at the grocery store for behaving in an

> innappropriate way. Lord knows there are plenty of adults who do act far

worse

> than children ( apparently being hit as kids didnt help them become

better

> people )

>

> Hitting children is the easy way out. It takes ten times as much

> restraint, patience, and even knowledge about how children learn, think

and and feel

> to teach your kids the proper ways to behave than it does to just inflict

> pain. My child will undoubtly have times she looks at me with anger and

> frustration. But NEVER once will my baby ever look at me and feel fear.

Thats a vow I

> have made for myself.

>

> It is my opinion, and we all have one, that if a person cannot raise

> children into healthy,loving, and adjusted adults without any threat of

violence

> or emotional terrorism then they have FAILED as a parent and even a human

> being, buts thats just my take on it.

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Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very fast

how to manage their parents.

Also, expect to be screamed at & even hit by your child in the future. This

is just normal every day things a child will do. In a culture that screams

that violence is ok, you are in for a very hard time.

If you are sending your daughter to public school what are you going to do

when your 5 year old comes home & tells you to fXXX yourself, spits in your

face, or even hits you. These are realistic things that can & will happen.

Private school doesn't even change those odds. You may stand a chance if you

homeschool. But your children will never find another child raised exactly

like yours even that way. They will be exposed to children who will abuse

her & treat her like a piece of crap. They will do it because they will be

able to. You cannot protect her from the evil because it is out there just

waiting to pounce on any child. You will have to teach her to fight back or

she will learn on her own. If she doesn't she will not survive. This is the

truth if I ever have told it. It is impossible to raise a totally peaceful

child in such a hateful world. That is not to say that you cannot raise her

to be moral & loving. But you will have to have a stronger impact than the

rest of the world. The only way to do that is to homeschool your daughter.

You will also have to know psychology as good as the best one in the world

to succeed without ever laying a hand on your daughters behind. I will have

a party for you if you succeed. Then I want you to publish a book telling us

how you did it. I also wonder about one other thing. Will she have a

sibling? That too will make all the difference in the world.

This is just my view & not critical of yours. I too had that dream of never

spanking my precious little babies. But sometimes parents have to say & do

things they despise for the safety & for the love of their child.

Debbie

Debbie

Re: Pro Smacking Limits

> As a parent I think it is completely unacceptable to smack, hit, whip,

spank

> or wound any children in any form or fashion, PERIOD. Thats my stance and

I

> stand by it to the degree I will divorce my husband before I even allow

him

> to lay hands on my child.

>

> There is NOTHING to be learned by using physical violence against

anyone.

> You wouldnt smack another adult at the grocery store for behaving in an

> innappropriate way. Lord knows there are plenty of adults who do act far

worse

> than children ( apparently being hit as kids didnt help them become

better

> people )

>

> Hitting children is the easy way out. It takes ten times as much

> restraint, patience, and even knowledge about how children learn, think

and and feel

> to teach your kids the proper ways to behave than it does to just inflict

> pain. My child will undoubtly have times she looks at me with anger and

> frustration. But NEVER once will my baby ever look at me and feel fear.

Thats a vow I

> have made for myself.

>

> It is my opinion, and we all have one, that if a person cannot raise

> children into healthy,loving, and adjusted adults without any threat of

violence

> or emotional terrorism then they have FAILED as a parent and even a human

> being, buts thats just my take on it.

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very fast

how to manage their parents.

Also, expect to be screamed at & even hit by your child in the future. This

is just normal every day things a child will do. In a culture that screams

that violence is ok, you are in for a very hard time.

If you are sending your daughter to public school what are you going to do

when your 5 year old comes home & tells you to fXXX yourself, spits in your

face, or even hits you. These are realistic things that can & will happen.

Private school doesn't even change those odds. You may stand a chance if you

homeschool. But your children will never find another child raised exactly

like yours even that way. They will be exposed to children who will abuse

her & treat her like a piece of crap. They will do it because they will be

able to. You cannot protect her from the evil because it is out there just

waiting to pounce on any child. You will have to teach her to fight back or

she will learn on her own. If she doesn't she will not survive. This is the

truth if I ever have told it. It is impossible to raise a totally peaceful

child in such a hateful world. That is not to say that you cannot raise her

to be moral & loving. But you will have to have a stronger impact than the

rest of the world. The only way to do that is to homeschool your daughter.

You will also have to know psychology as good as the best one in the world

to succeed without ever laying a hand on your daughters behind. I will have

a party for you if you succeed. Then I want you to publish a book telling us

how you did it. I also wonder about one other thing. Will she have a

sibling? That too will make all the difference in the world.

This is just my view & not critical of yours. I too had that dream of never

spanking my precious little babies. But sometimes parents have to say & do

things they despise for the safety & for the love of their child.

Debbie

Debbie

Re: Pro Smacking Limits

> As a parent I think it is completely unacceptable to smack, hit, whip,

spank

> or wound any children in any form or fashion, PERIOD. Thats my stance and

I

> stand by it to the degree I will divorce my husband before I even allow

him

> to lay hands on my child.

>

> There is NOTHING to be learned by using physical violence against

anyone.

> You wouldnt smack another adult at the grocery store for behaving in an

> innappropriate way. Lord knows there are plenty of adults who do act far

worse

> than children ( apparently being hit as kids didnt help them become

better

> people )

>

> Hitting children is the easy way out. It takes ten times as much

> restraint, patience, and even knowledge about how children learn, think

and and feel

> to teach your kids the proper ways to behave than it does to just inflict

> pain. My child will undoubtly have times she looks at me with anger and

> frustration. But NEVER once will my baby ever look at me and feel fear.

Thats a vow I

> have made for myself.

>

> It is my opinion, and we all have one, that if a person cannot raise

> children into healthy,loving, and adjusted adults without any threat of

violence

> or emotional terrorism then they have FAILED as a parent and even a human

> being, buts thats just my take on it.

>

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very fast

how to manage their parents.

Also, expect to be screamed at & even hit by your child in the future. This

is just normal every day things a child will do. In a culture that screams

that violence is ok, you are in for a very hard time.

If you are sending your daughter to public school what are you going to do

when your 5 year old comes home & tells you to fXXX yourself, spits in your

face, or even hits you. These are realistic things that can & will happen.

Private school doesn't even change those odds. You may stand a chance if you

homeschool. But your children will never find another child raised exactly

like yours even that way. They will be exposed to children who will abuse

her & treat her like a piece of crap. They will do it because they will be

able to. You cannot protect her from the evil because it is out there just

waiting to pounce on any child. You will have to teach her to fight back or

she will learn on her own. If she doesn't she will not survive. This is the

truth if I ever have told it. It is impossible to raise a totally peaceful

child in such a hateful world. That is not to say that you cannot raise her

to be moral & loving. But you will have to have a stronger impact than the

rest of the world. The only way to do that is to homeschool your daughter.

You will also have to know psychology as good as the best one in the world

to succeed without ever laying a hand on your daughters behind. I will have

a party for you if you succeed. Then I want you to publish a book telling us

how you did it. I also wonder about one other thing. Will she have a

sibling? That too will make all the difference in the world.

This is just my view & not critical of yours. I too had that dream of never

spanking my precious little babies. But sometimes parents have to say & do

things they despise for the safety & for the love of their child.

Debbie

Debbie

Re: Pro Smacking Limits

> As a parent I think it is completely unacceptable to smack, hit, whip,

spank

> or wound any children in any form or fashion, PERIOD. Thats my stance and

I

> stand by it to the degree I will divorce my husband before I even allow

him

> to lay hands on my child.

>

> There is NOTHING to be learned by using physical violence against

anyone.

> You wouldnt smack another adult at the grocery store for behaving in an

> innappropriate way. Lord knows there are plenty of adults who do act far

worse

> than children ( apparently being hit as kids didnt help them become

better

> people )

>

> Hitting children is the easy way out. It takes ten times as much

> restraint, patience, and even knowledge about how children learn, think

and and feel

> to teach your kids the proper ways to behave than it does to just inflict

> pain. My child will undoubtly have times she looks at me with anger and

> frustration. But NEVER once will my baby ever look at me and feel fear.

Thats a vow I

> have made for myself.

>

> It is my opinion, and we all have one, that if a person cannot raise

> children into healthy,loving, and adjusted adults without any threat of

violence

> or emotional terrorism then they have FAILED as a parent and even a human

> being, buts thats just my take on it.

>

>

>

>

>

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Sexystarshine,

I forgot to reply to one part of your message. If I was in public & some guy

or gal grabbed my behind I would beat the living crap out of them. I will

not be treated like some piece of cheap meat. I had a guy make an ugly

implication toward me & I slapped his face so hard that the welts could be

seen the next day.

A guy got really ugly to me one time & I clawed his face all to pieces. I

had another woman threaten to beat my daughter (because of a lie her child

had told to her). I went to the woman's house & challenged her to fight me

in the road. I also informed her that if she laid one finger on my child she

would be a bloody mess in the road before I was through with her. She

wouldn't meet me, but still stated that the next time my child went to get

on the bus she would get her. I went to the police about it when I left her

home. Needless to say she never laid a finger on my child. I had a prowler

here in the middle of the woods & he was peeping in my bedroom windows. I

called the police & told them that if the person showed their face in my

windows again, I would shoot & I wouldn't care if I killed the person or

not. I am alone here in the country for 6 nights a week. I will not put up

with much off of anyone or anything. Does it make me less of an adult? I

don't think so. I know how to take care of myself & my family when I need

to. I don't go looking for trouble, But if trouble starts coming at me I get

rid of the trouble. It will not invade my home without me trying to take

care of it. I cannot do that & remain peaceful all the time. Also, I was

raised with Violence in my childhood. When you are a white child living in

the middle of an all black neighborhood in the 50's you learn that being a

pacifist will get you nowhere but dead in a hurry. So Yes, I would reprimand

someone who is really gross in public. If I see someone with his/her pants

hanging low enough to show their bare butts, I tell them to cover it up

because its disgusting. If they touch me in any manner that is sexual I can

& will do something about it. Peace is my first choice & I prefer to live

that way, but if I cannot then I will fight will to get it if I have to.

I guess maybe I am old fashioned or something. But life isn't perfect & you

are going to have times when you have to fight back. I will ignore what I

can, but when it interferes with my children's or my personal space or my

home, then I will get rid of it one way or another.

Debbie

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Sexystarshine,

I forgot to reply to one part of your message. If I was in public & some guy

or gal grabbed my behind I would beat the living crap out of them. I will

not be treated like some piece of cheap meat. I had a guy make an ugly

implication toward me & I slapped his face so hard that the welts could be

seen the next day.

A guy got really ugly to me one time & I clawed his face all to pieces. I

had another woman threaten to beat my daughter (because of a lie her child

had told to her). I went to the woman's house & challenged her to fight me

in the road. I also informed her that if she laid one finger on my child she

would be a bloody mess in the road before I was through with her. She

wouldn't meet me, but still stated that the next time my child went to get

on the bus she would get her. I went to the police about it when I left her

home. Needless to say she never laid a finger on my child. I had a prowler

here in the middle of the woods & he was peeping in my bedroom windows. I

called the police & told them that if the person showed their face in my

windows again, I would shoot & I wouldn't care if I killed the person or

not. I am alone here in the country for 6 nights a week. I will not put up

with much off of anyone or anything. Does it make me less of an adult? I

don't think so. I know how to take care of myself & my family when I need

to. I don't go looking for trouble, But if trouble starts coming at me I get

rid of the trouble. It will not invade my home without me trying to take

care of it. I cannot do that & remain peaceful all the time. Also, I was

raised with Violence in my childhood. When you are a white child living in

the middle of an all black neighborhood in the 50's you learn that being a

pacifist will get you nowhere but dead in a hurry. So Yes, I would reprimand

someone who is really gross in public. If I see someone with his/her pants

hanging low enough to show their bare butts, I tell them to cover it up

because its disgusting. If they touch me in any manner that is sexual I can

& will do something about it. Peace is my first choice & I prefer to live

that way, but if I cannot then I will fight will to get it if I have to.

I guess maybe I am old fashioned or something. But life isn't perfect & you

are going to have times when you have to fight back. I will ignore what I

can, but when it interferes with my children's or my personal space or my

home, then I will get rid of it one way or another.

Debbie

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Sexystarshine,

I forgot to reply to one part of your message. If I was in public & some guy

or gal grabbed my behind I would beat the living crap out of them. I will

not be treated like some piece of cheap meat. I had a guy make an ugly

implication toward me & I slapped his face so hard that the welts could be

seen the next day.

A guy got really ugly to me one time & I clawed his face all to pieces. I

had another woman threaten to beat my daughter (because of a lie her child

had told to her). I went to the woman's house & challenged her to fight me

in the road. I also informed her that if she laid one finger on my child she

would be a bloody mess in the road before I was through with her. She

wouldn't meet me, but still stated that the next time my child went to get

on the bus she would get her. I went to the police about it when I left her

home. Needless to say she never laid a finger on my child. I had a prowler

here in the middle of the woods & he was peeping in my bedroom windows. I

called the police & told them that if the person showed their face in my

windows again, I would shoot & I wouldn't care if I killed the person or

not. I am alone here in the country for 6 nights a week. I will not put up

with much off of anyone or anything. Does it make me less of an adult? I

don't think so. I know how to take care of myself & my family when I need

to. I don't go looking for trouble, But if trouble starts coming at me I get

rid of the trouble. It will not invade my home without me trying to take

care of it. I cannot do that & remain peaceful all the time. Also, I was

raised with Violence in my childhood. When you are a white child living in

the middle of an all black neighborhood in the 50's you learn that being a

pacifist will get you nowhere but dead in a hurry. So Yes, I would reprimand

someone who is really gross in public. If I see someone with his/her pants

hanging low enough to show their bare butts, I tell them to cover it up

because its disgusting. If they touch me in any manner that is sexual I can

& will do something about it. Peace is my first choice & I prefer to live

that way, but if I cannot then I will fight will to get it if I have to.

I guess maybe I am old fashioned or something. But life isn't perfect & you

are going to have times when you have to fight back. I will ignore what I

can, but when it interferes with my children's or my personal space or my

home, then I will get rid of it one way or another.

Debbie

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I have been reading these posts for the last day or so without posting

anything but I really need to make a comment.

Debbie, you keep writing about how these things are " just my opinion " when

the things you write are not just opinions. Saying that if Sexystarshine

doesn't spank their child then " expect to be screamed at & even hit by your

child " is horrible. That reads as though you are passing judgement on

parents that do not condone hitting their children. And, getting sarcastic

and saying that " I want you to publish a book telling us how you did it " in

reference again to not hitting her child just seems really backhanded and

hurtful.

When I joined this group it was to try and get some understanding about my

moms BP and it's impact on my life. Up until the last few days it has been

wonderful but as I am reading these posts it makes me cry. Don't all of you

think that we in this group have had enough of these kind of hurtful words

aimed at us?

on 7/5/04 8:19 PM, Deborah Kovak at foundmy@... wrote:

Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very fast

how to manage their parents.

Also, expect to be screamed at & even hit by your child in the future. This

is just normal every day things a child will do. In a culture that screams

that violence is ok, you are in for a very hard time.

If you are sending your daughter to public school what are you going to do

when your 5 year old comes home & tells you to fXXX yourself, spits in your

face, or even hits you. These are realistic things that can & will happen.

Private school doesn't even change those odds. You may stand a chance if you

homeschool. But your children will never find another child raised exactly

like yours even that way. They will be exposed to children who will abuse

her & treat her like a piece of crap. They will do it because they will be

able to. You cannot protect her from the evil because it is out there just

waiting to pounce on any child. You will have to teach her to fight back or

she will learn on her own. If she doesn't she will not survive. This is the

truth if I ever have told it. It is impossible to raise a totally peaceful

child in such a hateful world. That is not to say that you cannot raise her

to be moral & loving. But you will have to have a stronger impact than the

rest of the world. The only way to do that is to homeschool your daughter.

You will also have to know psychology as good as the best one in the world

to succeed without ever laying a hand on your daughters behind. I will have

a party for you if you succeed. Then I want you to publish a book telling us

how you did it. I also wonder about one other thing. Will she have a

sibling? That too will make all the difference in the world.

This is just my view & not critical of yours. I too had that dream of never

spanking my precious little babies. But sometimes parents have to say & do

things they despise for the safety & for the love of their child.

Debbie

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Guest guest

I have been reading these posts for the last day or so without posting

anything but I really need to make a comment.

Debbie, you keep writing about how these things are " just my opinion " when

the things you write are not just opinions. Saying that if Sexystarshine

doesn't spank their child then " expect to be screamed at & even hit by your

child " is horrible. That reads as though you are passing judgement on

parents that do not condone hitting their children. And, getting sarcastic

and saying that " I want you to publish a book telling us how you did it " in

reference again to not hitting her child just seems really backhanded and

hurtful.

When I joined this group it was to try and get some understanding about my

moms BP and it's impact on my life. Up until the last few days it has been

wonderful but as I am reading these posts it makes me cry. Don't all of you

think that we in this group have had enough of these kind of hurtful words

aimed at us?

on 7/5/04 8:19 PM, Deborah Kovak at foundmy@... wrote:

Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very fast

how to manage their parents.

Also, expect to be screamed at & even hit by your child in the future. This

is just normal every day things a child will do. In a culture that screams

that violence is ok, you are in for a very hard time.

If you are sending your daughter to public school what are you going to do

when your 5 year old comes home & tells you to fXXX yourself, spits in your

face, or even hits you. These are realistic things that can & will happen.

Private school doesn't even change those odds. You may stand a chance if you

homeschool. But your children will never find another child raised exactly

like yours even that way. They will be exposed to children who will abuse

her & treat her like a piece of crap. They will do it because they will be

able to. You cannot protect her from the evil because it is out there just

waiting to pounce on any child. You will have to teach her to fight back or

she will learn on her own. If she doesn't she will not survive. This is the

truth if I ever have told it. It is impossible to raise a totally peaceful

child in such a hateful world. That is not to say that you cannot raise her

to be moral & loving. But you will have to have a stronger impact than the

rest of the world. The only way to do that is to homeschool your daughter.

You will also have to know psychology as good as the best one in the world

to succeed without ever laying a hand on your daughters behind. I will have

a party for you if you succeed. Then I want you to publish a book telling us

how you did it. I also wonder about one other thing. Will she have a

sibling? That too will make all the difference in the world.

This is just my view & not critical of yours. I too had that dream of never

spanking my precious little babies. But sometimes parents have to say & do

things they despise for the safety & for the love of their child.

Debbie

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

I have been reading these posts for the last day or so without posting

anything but I really need to make a comment.

Debbie, you keep writing about how these things are " just my opinion " when

the things you write are not just opinions. Saying that if Sexystarshine

doesn't spank their child then " expect to be screamed at & even hit by your

child " is horrible. That reads as though you are passing judgement on

parents that do not condone hitting their children. And, getting sarcastic

and saying that " I want you to publish a book telling us how you did it " in

reference again to not hitting her child just seems really backhanded and

hurtful.

When I joined this group it was to try and get some understanding about my

moms BP and it's impact on my life. Up until the last few days it has been

wonderful but as I am reading these posts it makes me cry. Don't all of you

think that we in this group have had enough of these kind of hurtful words

aimed at us?

on 7/5/04 8:19 PM, Deborah Kovak at foundmy@... wrote:

Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very fast

how to manage their parents.

Also, expect to be screamed at & even hit by your child in the future. This

is just normal every day things a child will do. In a culture that screams

that violence is ok, you are in for a very hard time.

If you are sending your daughter to public school what are you going to do

when your 5 year old comes home & tells you to fXXX yourself, spits in your

face, or even hits you. These are realistic things that can & will happen.

Private school doesn't even change those odds. You may stand a chance if you

homeschool. But your children will never find another child raised exactly

like yours even that way. They will be exposed to children who will abuse

her & treat her like a piece of crap. They will do it because they will be

able to. You cannot protect her from the evil because it is out there just

waiting to pounce on any child. You will have to teach her to fight back or

she will learn on her own. If she doesn't she will not survive. This is the

truth if I ever have told it. It is impossible to raise a totally peaceful

child in such a hateful world. That is not to say that you cannot raise her

to be moral & loving. But you will have to have a stronger impact than the

rest of the world. The only way to do that is to homeschool your daughter.

You will also have to know psychology as good as the best one in the world

to succeed without ever laying a hand on your daughters behind. I will have

a party for you if you succeed. Then I want you to publish a book telling us

how you did it. I also wonder about one other thing. Will she have a

sibling? That too will make all the difference in the world.

This is just my view & not critical of yours. I too had that dream of never

spanking my precious little babies. But sometimes parents have to say & do

things they despise for the safety & for the love of their child.

Debbie

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In a message dated 7/6/2004 8:39:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

sleddog@... writes:

> Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very

fast

> how to manage their parents.

I totally agree !! My sister, becasue of our childhood refused to spank her

first child...she'd sit him down ( at 1 year of age, no less) and explain

why his behavior was not acceptable that kid is really messed up..the

second child was spanked when he needed it as a young child...and he's

totally normal...

But if thats the your argument behind hitting how do you explain

all the examples of children who are NOT hit and still grow up to be loving,

responsible adults without any problems? Before you say none exist there are

several examples here on this board of strong women who managed to raise great

kids without hitting or spanking. To insinuate all kids who arent disciplined

by physical punishment grow up to be " messed up " discounts all the success

stories of women who did just that!

And as some have already said the prison sysrem is full of people who

were spanked ( No I am not saying all kids spanked go to jail or we wouldnt be

free to type here, lol ) So if some kids spanked go to jail, others dont and

if some kids not spanked go to jail and others dont- well dont we owe it to

ourselves to figure out what the ones who didnt spank and whose kids didnt go

to jail did right?

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In a message dated 7/6/2004 8:39:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

sleddog@... writes:

> Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very

fast

> how to manage their parents.

I totally agree !! My sister, becasue of our childhood refused to spank her

first child...she'd sit him down ( at 1 year of age, no less) and explain

why his behavior was not acceptable that kid is really messed up..the

second child was spanked when he needed it as a young child...and he's

totally normal...

But if thats the your argument behind hitting how do you explain

all the examples of children who are NOT hit and still grow up to be loving,

responsible adults without any problems? Before you say none exist there are

several examples here on this board of strong women who managed to raise great

kids without hitting or spanking. To insinuate all kids who arent disciplined

by physical punishment grow up to be " messed up " discounts all the success

stories of women who did just that!

And as some have already said the prison sysrem is full of people who

were spanked ( No I am not saying all kids spanked go to jail or we wouldnt be

free to type here, lol ) So if some kids spanked go to jail, others dont and

if some kids not spanked go to jail and others dont- well dont we owe it to

ourselves to figure out what the ones who didnt spank and whose kids didnt go

to jail did right?

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honey,

I was not criticizing her at all. I worded myself wrong. I really would

congratulate her if she managed to raise a child who was never hit or had to

be hit in any situation & I really would like to know how she did it in this

day & age. I am sorry you took me wrong. Have you honestly looked at the

kids these days in the school system. Its not just the kids its the teachers

also. Some are great. Others are pacifists like my daughter & never wanted

to cause any physical or mental pain what so ever. Then we have those who go

to the school (child or adult) who are down right hateful. My daughter was

picked on constantly, she was treated like a piece of crap by teachers &

students alike, not all the time, but most of the time. You want to know

why? Because she believed in God, because she was a redhead, because she was

like a walking encyclopedia, because she didn't french kiss boys in the

school & let them feel her up. You name it, they found a reason to persecute

her. She is not the only one that is persecuted by others in the school

system. Anymore that is the norm. That is why they have cops in the halls &

on the school grounds. 5 year old kids are getting raped in schools across

the nation by teachers & kids alike. Children are abused all the time in all

the schools by someone. SO yes, I did say that it would take a miracle to

raise a child who doesn't fight back, wouldn't hit anyone including the

parents. It doesn't have to be her kid, it could be anyone's kids that are

doing it. They learn it from school, they learn it from tv. You either

become someone who is picked on all the time or you beat the crap out of

someone to try to make it stop. Its just that simple. The school system is a

war zone. You cannot walk through a war zone unscathed. Life in general is

war zone here. People are always getting beat up, killed, robbed, you name

it. There is no way to get around it. It isn't like it was when I was

growing up & the worse thing a kid does at school is get into trouble for

chewing gum in class or fight against another kid using fair tactics. So no,

I wasn't telling her it was necessarily going to be her kid. But sometimes

you really have to tell it like it is to prepare people so they can make

contingency plans. I am not

even saying that all teachers, children, or adults are bad. I am saying that

the bad ones are no longer hiding & trying to do things in secret like they

did in the old days & they don't give a darn who knows it.

I am glad that you did respond to this as you did. It let me know that I

really didn't clarify my words. However, I do feel that the best way to put

on a good defense against the worse that can happen in life is to face the

truth & know that this is not " Leave it to Beaver " or " Father knows best "

anymore. Its so much more violent than that. You don't really know whats

going on at school unless it leaks or you have children going there. Then

you learn big time. Search the net if you doubt what I say. But please don't

expect me to remain quiet about the violence that is in the USA. I will not

look at it through rose colored glasses like I use to. The government paints

a pretty picture, but if you read the news from the different 50 states you

will see what I mean.

Debbie

Re: Pro Smacking Limits

> I have been reading these posts for the last day or so without posting

> anything but I really need to make a comment.

>

> Debbie, you keep writing about how these things are " just my opinion " when

> the things you write are not just opinions. Saying that if Sexystarshine

> doesn't spank their child then " expect to be screamed at & even hit by

your

> child " is horrible. That reads as though you are passing judgement on

> parents that do not condone hitting their children. And, getting sarcastic

> and saying that " I want you to publish a book telling us how you did it "

in

> reference again to not hitting her child just seems really backhanded and

> hurtful.

>

> When I joined this group it was to try and get some understanding about my

> moms BP and it's impact on my life. Up until the last few days it has been

> wonderful but as I am reading these posts it makes me cry. Don't all of

you

> think that we in this group have had enough of these kind of hurtful words

> aimed at us?

>

> on 7/5/04 8:19 PM, Deborah Kovak at foundmy@... wrote:

>

> Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very

fast

> how to manage their parents.

> Also, expect to be screamed at & even hit by your child in the future.

This

> is just normal every day things a child will do. In a culture that screams

> that violence is ok, you are in for a very hard time.

> If you are sending your daughter to public school what are you going to do

> when your 5 year old comes home & tells you to fXXX yourself, spits in

your

> face, or even hits you. These are realistic things that can & will happen.

> Private school doesn't even change those odds. You may stand a chance if

you

> homeschool. But your children will never find another child raised exactly

> like yours even that way. They will be exposed to children who will abuse

> her & treat her like a piece of crap. They will do it because they will be

> able to. You cannot protect her from the evil because it is out there just

> waiting to pounce on any child. You will have to teach her to fight back

or

> she will learn on her own. If she doesn't she will not survive. This is

the

> truth if I ever have told it. It is impossible to raise a totally peaceful

> child in such a hateful world. That is not to say that you cannot raise

her

> to be moral & loving. But you will have to have a stronger impact than the

> rest of the world. The only way to do that is to homeschool your daughter.

> You will also have to know psychology as good as the best one in the world

> to succeed without ever laying a hand on your daughters behind. I will

have

> a party for you if you succeed. Then I want you to publish a book telling

us

> how you did it. I also wonder about one other thing. Will she have a

> sibling? That too will make all the difference in the world.

> This is just my view & not critical of yours. I too had that dream of

never

> spanking my precious little babies. But sometimes parents have to say & do

> things they despise for the safety & for the love of their child.

> Debbie

>

>

>

>

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honey,

I was not criticizing her at all. I worded myself wrong. I really would

congratulate her if she managed to raise a child who was never hit or had to

be hit in any situation & I really would like to know how she did it in this

day & age. I am sorry you took me wrong. Have you honestly looked at the

kids these days in the school system. Its not just the kids its the teachers

also. Some are great. Others are pacifists like my daughter & never wanted

to cause any physical or mental pain what so ever. Then we have those who go

to the school (child or adult) who are down right hateful. My daughter was

picked on constantly, she was treated like a piece of crap by teachers &

students alike, not all the time, but most of the time. You want to know

why? Because she believed in God, because she was a redhead, because she was

like a walking encyclopedia, because she didn't french kiss boys in the

school & let them feel her up. You name it, they found a reason to persecute

her. She is not the only one that is persecuted by others in the school

system. Anymore that is the norm. That is why they have cops in the halls &

on the school grounds. 5 year old kids are getting raped in schools across

the nation by teachers & kids alike. Children are abused all the time in all

the schools by someone. SO yes, I did say that it would take a miracle to

raise a child who doesn't fight back, wouldn't hit anyone including the

parents. It doesn't have to be her kid, it could be anyone's kids that are

doing it. They learn it from school, they learn it from tv. You either

become someone who is picked on all the time or you beat the crap out of

someone to try to make it stop. Its just that simple. The school system is a

war zone. You cannot walk through a war zone unscathed. Life in general is

war zone here. People are always getting beat up, killed, robbed, you name

it. There is no way to get around it. It isn't like it was when I was

growing up & the worse thing a kid does at school is get into trouble for

chewing gum in class or fight against another kid using fair tactics. So no,

I wasn't telling her it was necessarily going to be her kid. But sometimes

you really have to tell it like it is to prepare people so they can make

contingency plans. I am not

even saying that all teachers, children, or adults are bad. I am saying that

the bad ones are no longer hiding & trying to do things in secret like they

did in the old days & they don't give a darn who knows it.

I am glad that you did respond to this as you did. It let me know that I

really didn't clarify my words. However, I do feel that the best way to put

on a good defense against the worse that can happen in life is to face the

truth & know that this is not " Leave it to Beaver " or " Father knows best "

anymore. Its so much more violent than that. You don't really know whats

going on at school unless it leaks or you have children going there. Then

you learn big time. Search the net if you doubt what I say. But please don't

expect me to remain quiet about the violence that is in the USA. I will not

look at it through rose colored glasses like I use to. The government paints

a pretty picture, but if you read the news from the different 50 states you

will see what I mean.

Debbie

Re: Pro Smacking Limits

> I have been reading these posts for the last day or so without posting

> anything but I really need to make a comment.

>

> Debbie, you keep writing about how these things are " just my opinion " when

> the things you write are not just opinions. Saying that if Sexystarshine

> doesn't spank their child then " expect to be screamed at & even hit by

your

> child " is horrible. That reads as though you are passing judgement on

> parents that do not condone hitting their children. And, getting sarcastic

> and saying that " I want you to publish a book telling us how you did it "

in

> reference again to not hitting her child just seems really backhanded and

> hurtful.

>

> When I joined this group it was to try and get some understanding about my

> moms BP and it's impact on my life. Up until the last few days it has been

> wonderful but as I am reading these posts it makes me cry. Don't all of

you

> think that we in this group have had enough of these kind of hurtful words

> aimed at us?

>

> on 7/5/04 8:19 PM, Deborah Kovak at foundmy@... wrote:

>

> Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very

fast

> how to manage their parents.

> Also, expect to be screamed at & even hit by your child in the future.

This

> is just normal every day things a child will do. In a culture that screams

> that violence is ok, you are in for a very hard time.

> If you are sending your daughter to public school what are you going to do

> when your 5 year old comes home & tells you to fXXX yourself, spits in

your

> face, or even hits you. These are realistic things that can & will happen.

> Private school doesn't even change those odds. You may stand a chance if

you

> homeschool. But your children will never find another child raised exactly

> like yours even that way. They will be exposed to children who will abuse

> her & treat her like a piece of crap. They will do it because they will be

> able to. You cannot protect her from the evil because it is out there just

> waiting to pounce on any child. You will have to teach her to fight back

or

> she will learn on her own. If she doesn't she will not survive. This is

the

> truth if I ever have told it. It is impossible to raise a totally peaceful

> child in such a hateful world. That is not to say that you cannot raise

her

> to be moral & loving. But you will have to have a stronger impact than the

> rest of the world. The only way to do that is to homeschool your daughter.

> You will also have to know psychology as good as the best one in the world

> to succeed without ever laying a hand on your daughters behind. I will

have

> a party for you if you succeed. Then I want you to publish a book telling

us

> how you did it. I also wonder about one other thing. Will she have a

> sibling? That too will make all the difference in the world.

> This is just my view & not critical of yours. I too had that dream of

never

> spanking my precious little babies. But sometimes parents have to say & do

> things they despise for the safety & for the love of their child.

> Debbie

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

honey,

I was not criticizing her at all. I worded myself wrong. I really would

congratulate her if she managed to raise a child who was never hit or had to

be hit in any situation & I really would like to know how she did it in this

day & age. I am sorry you took me wrong. Have you honestly looked at the

kids these days in the school system. Its not just the kids its the teachers

also. Some are great. Others are pacifists like my daughter & never wanted

to cause any physical or mental pain what so ever. Then we have those who go

to the school (child or adult) who are down right hateful. My daughter was

picked on constantly, she was treated like a piece of crap by teachers &

students alike, not all the time, but most of the time. You want to know

why? Because she believed in God, because she was a redhead, because she was

like a walking encyclopedia, because she didn't french kiss boys in the

school & let them feel her up. You name it, they found a reason to persecute

her. She is not the only one that is persecuted by others in the school

system. Anymore that is the norm. That is why they have cops in the halls &

on the school grounds. 5 year old kids are getting raped in schools across

the nation by teachers & kids alike. Children are abused all the time in all

the schools by someone. SO yes, I did say that it would take a miracle to

raise a child who doesn't fight back, wouldn't hit anyone including the

parents. It doesn't have to be her kid, it could be anyone's kids that are

doing it. They learn it from school, they learn it from tv. You either

become someone who is picked on all the time or you beat the crap out of

someone to try to make it stop. Its just that simple. The school system is a

war zone. You cannot walk through a war zone unscathed. Life in general is

war zone here. People are always getting beat up, killed, robbed, you name

it. There is no way to get around it. It isn't like it was when I was

growing up & the worse thing a kid does at school is get into trouble for

chewing gum in class or fight against another kid using fair tactics. So no,

I wasn't telling her it was necessarily going to be her kid. But sometimes

you really have to tell it like it is to prepare people so they can make

contingency plans. I am not

even saying that all teachers, children, or adults are bad. I am saying that

the bad ones are no longer hiding & trying to do things in secret like they

did in the old days & they don't give a darn who knows it.

I am glad that you did respond to this as you did. It let me know that I

really didn't clarify my words. However, I do feel that the best way to put

on a good defense against the worse that can happen in life is to face the

truth & know that this is not " Leave it to Beaver " or " Father knows best "

anymore. Its so much more violent than that. You don't really know whats

going on at school unless it leaks or you have children going there. Then

you learn big time. Search the net if you doubt what I say. But please don't

expect me to remain quiet about the violence that is in the USA. I will not

look at it through rose colored glasses like I use to. The government paints

a pretty picture, but if you read the news from the different 50 states you

will see what I mean.

Debbie

Re: Pro Smacking Limits

> I have been reading these posts for the last day or so without posting

> anything but I really need to make a comment.

>

> Debbie, you keep writing about how these things are " just my opinion " when

> the things you write are not just opinions. Saying that if Sexystarshine

> doesn't spank their child then " expect to be screamed at & even hit by

your

> child " is horrible. That reads as though you are passing judgement on

> parents that do not condone hitting their children. And, getting sarcastic

> and saying that " I want you to publish a book telling us how you did it "

in

> reference again to not hitting her child just seems really backhanded and

> hurtful.

>

> When I joined this group it was to try and get some understanding about my

> moms BP and it's impact on my life. Up until the last few days it has been

> wonderful but as I am reading these posts it makes me cry. Don't all of

you

> think that we in this group have had enough of these kind of hurtful words

> aimed at us?

>

> on 7/5/04 8:19 PM, Deborah Kovak at foundmy@... wrote:

>

> Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very

fast

> how to manage their parents.

> Also, expect to be screamed at & even hit by your child in the future.

This

> is just normal every day things a child will do. In a culture that screams

> that violence is ok, you are in for a very hard time.

> If you are sending your daughter to public school what are you going to do

> when your 5 year old comes home & tells you to fXXX yourself, spits in

your

> face, or even hits you. These are realistic things that can & will happen.

> Private school doesn't even change those odds. You may stand a chance if

you

> homeschool. But your children will never find another child raised exactly

> like yours even that way. They will be exposed to children who will abuse

> her & treat her like a piece of crap. They will do it because they will be

> able to. You cannot protect her from the evil because it is out there just

> waiting to pounce on any child. You will have to teach her to fight back

or

> she will learn on her own. If she doesn't she will not survive. This is

the

> truth if I ever have told it. It is impossible to raise a totally peaceful

> child in such a hateful world. That is not to say that you cannot raise

her

> to be moral & loving. But you will have to have a stronger impact than the

> rest of the world. The only way to do that is to homeschool your daughter.

> You will also have to know psychology as good as the best one in the world

> to succeed without ever laying a hand on your daughters behind. I will

have

> a party for you if you succeed. Then I want you to publish a book telling

us

> how you did it. I also wonder about one other thing. Will she have a

> sibling? That too will make all the difference in the world.

> This is just my view & not critical of yours. I too had that dream of

never

> spanking my precious little babies. But sometimes parents have to say & do

> things they despise for the safety & for the love of their child.

> Debbie

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

I stand corrected I did say " your child " I should have stated that it was a

general statement & not necessarily her child, but any child in public

school that does that to their parents. Not all kids do, but these days

there are more than 50 % that do.

Debbie

Re: Pro Smacking Limits

> I have been reading these posts for the last day or so without posting

> anything but I really need to make a comment.

>

> Debbie, you keep writing about how these things are " just my opinion " when

> the things you write are not just opinions. Saying that if Sexystarshine

> doesn't spank their child then " expect to be screamed at & even hit by

your

> child " is horrible. That reads as though you are passing judgement on

> parents that do not condone hitting their children. And, getting sarcastic

> and saying that " I want you to publish a book telling us how you did it "

in

> reference again to not hitting her child just seems really backhanded and

> hurtful.

>

> When I joined this group it was to try and get some understanding about my

> moms BP and it's impact on my life. Up until the last few days it has been

> wonderful but as I am reading these posts it makes me cry. Don't all of

you

> think that we in this group have had enough of these kind of hurtful words

> aimed at us?

>

> on 7/5/04 8:19 PM, Deborah Kovak at foundmy@... wrote:

>

> Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very

fast

> how to manage their parents.

> Also, expect to be screamed at & even hit by your child in the future.

This

> is just normal every day things a child will do. In a culture that screams

> that violence is ok, you are in for a very hard time.

> If you are sending your daughter to public school what are you going to do

> when your 5 year old comes home & tells you to fXXX yourself, spits in

your

> face, or even hits you. These are realistic things that can & will happen.

> Private school doesn't even change those odds. You may stand a chance if

you

> homeschool. But your children will never find another child raised exactly

> like yours even that way. They will be exposed to children who will abuse

> her & treat her like a piece of crap. They will do it because they will be

> able to. You cannot protect her from the evil because it is out there just

> waiting to pounce on any child. You will have to teach her to fight back

or

> she will learn on her own. If she doesn't she will not survive. This is

the

> truth if I ever have told it. It is impossible to raise a totally peaceful

> child in such a hateful world. That is not to say that you cannot raise

her

> to be moral & loving. But you will have to have a stronger impact than the

> rest of the world. The only way to do that is to homeschool your daughter.

> You will also have to know psychology as good as the best one in the world

> to succeed without ever laying a hand on your daughters behind. I will

have

> a party for you if you succeed. Then I want you to publish a book telling

us

> how you did it. I also wonder about one other thing. Will she have a

> sibling? That too will make all the difference in the world.

> This is just my view & not critical of yours. I too had that dream of

never

> spanking my precious little babies. But sometimes parents have to say & do

> things they despise for the safety & for the love of their child.

> Debbie

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

I stand corrected I did say " your child " I should have stated that it was a

general statement & not necessarily her child, but any child in public

school that does that to their parents. Not all kids do, but these days

there are more than 50 % that do.

Debbie

Re: Pro Smacking Limits

> I have been reading these posts for the last day or so without posting

> anything but I really need to make a comment.

>

> Debbie, you keep writing about how these things are " just my opinion " when

> the things you write are not just opinions. Saying that if Sexystarshine

> doesn't spank their child then " expect to be screamed at & even hit by

your

> child " is horrible. That reads as though you are passing judgement on

> parents that do not condone hitting their children. And, getting sarcastic

> and saying that " I want you to publish a book telling us how you did it "

in

> reference again to not hitting her child just seems really backhanded and

> hurtful.

>

> When I joined this group it was to try and get some understanding about my

> moms BP and it's impact on my life. Up until the last few days it has been

> wonderful but as I am reading these posts it makes me cry. Don't all of

you

> think that we in this group have had enough of these kind of hurtful words

> aimed at us?

>

> on 7/5/04 8:19 PM, Deborah Kovak at foundmy@... wrote:

>

> Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very

fast

> how to manage their parents.

> Also, expect to be screamed at & even hit by your child in the future.

This

> is just normal every day things a child will do. In a culture that screams

> that violence is ok, you are in for a very hard time.

> If you are sending your daughter to public school what are you going to do

> when your 5 year old comes home & tells you to fXXX yourself, spits in

your

> face, or even hits you. These are realistic things that can & will happen.

> Private school doesn't even change those odds. You may stand a chance if

you

> homeschool. But your children will never find another child raised exactly

> like yours even that way. They will be exposed to children who will abuse

> her & treat her like a piece of crap. They will do it because they will be

> able to. You cannot protect her from the evil because it is out there just

> waiting to pounce on any child. You will have to teach her to fight back

or

> she will learn on her own. If she doesn't she will not survive. This is

the

> truth if I ever have told it. It is impossible to raise a totally peaceful

> child in such a hateful world. That is not to say that you cannot raise

her

> to be moral & loving. But you will have to have a stronger impact than the

> rest of the world. The only way to do that is to homeschool your daughter.

> You will also have to know psychology as good as the best one in the world

> to succeed without ever laying a hand on your daughters behind. I will

have

> a party for you if you succeed. Then I want you to publish a book telling

us

> how you did it. I also wonder about one other thing. Will she have a

> sibling? That too will make all the difference in the world.

> This is just my view & not critical of yours. I too had that dream of

never

> spanking my precious little babies. But sometimes parents have to say & do

> things they despise for the safety & for the love of their child.

> Debbie

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

> Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very

fast

> how to manage their parents.

I totally agree !! My sister, becasue of our childhood refused to spank her

first child...she'd sit him down ( at 1 year of age, no less) and explain

why his behavior was not acceptable that kid is really messed up..the

second child was spanked when he needed it as a young child...and he's

totally normal...

> Also, expect to be screamed at & even hit by your child in the future.

This

> is just normal every day things a child will do.

right. There are some wonderful children ( my neice and step son are

examples) they just accepted what was told to them, never challenged

adults...just naturally well behaved kids, then there are those like my

oldest sister. Mother would say " do NOT touch the stove " and my sister,

would stare at my mother as she reached out to touch the stove...she was a

very defiant child...

Jackie

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this isn't my " reason " to spank, that is just an example with my sisters two

kids of one who was spanked and one who wasn't and if you had read further,

I explained that there are different kids with different temperaments

Jackie

> But if thats the your argument behind hitting how do you explain

> all the examples of children who are NOT hit and still grow up to be

loving,

> responsible adults without any problems? Before you say none exist there

are

> several examples here on this board of strong women who managed to raise

great

> kids without hitting or spanking. To insinuate all kids who arent

disciplined

> by physical punishment grow up to be " messed up " discounts all the

success

> stories of women who did just that!

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Guest guest

this isn't my " reason " to spank, that is just an example with my sisters two

kids of one who was spanked and one who wasn't and if you had read further,

I explained that there are different kids with different temperaments

Jackie

> But if thats the your argument behind hitting how do you explain

> all the examples of children who are NOT hit and still grow up to be

loving,

> responsible adults without any problems? Before you say none exist there

are

> several examples here on this board of strong women who managed to raise

great

> kids without hitting or spanking. To insinuate all kids who arent

disciplined

> by physical punishment grow up to be " messed up " discounts all the

success

> stories of women who did just that!

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Guest guest

it all depends on the situation and the child...spanking is not a blanket

thing where all kids are spanked for everything...

Jackie

> I know children have different tempermants but wouldnt hitting a "

fiesty "

> child just enflame the situation worse?

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Guest guest

it all depends on the situation and the child...spanking is not a blanket

thing where all kids are spanked for everything...

Jackie

> I know children have different tempermants but wouldnt hitting a "

fiesty "

> child just enflame the situation worse?

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hon,

I can tell you the difference without having to do research. It is the kids,

the time, the place, the situation, The parents, & the background of all

involved. Its also the temperament of the child. To be honest, I also think

its in the gene pool the child gets.

It could also be whether or not the child has a learning difference, but

don't quote me on that one.

I don't say that it isn't possible to raise any child without spanking, but

there are so many kids out there that will test you like my nephew. My

oldest daughter very rarely got a spanking for anything because the other

methods would work. I have rarely ever spanked my own youngest 2 children.

Not because I felt that it was wrong. But because if other ways work there

is not a need for spanking. A spanking is reserved for the times when

nothing else works including shoveling dog poo. I have a set of books here

written by a woman 100 years ago. She stated that if you distract a child

from being ugly by getting their attention on something else the mood should

pass with practice. I already know that hard work is great for getting out

anger. So if a child is angry they get hard work around here. If a child

volunteers someone else for a chore, that child gets the chore not the

person they volunteered. If a child is told to clean his/her room & they

slop over it & hide crap under the bed, don't sweep, or take 2 hours to fold

5 pieces of clothing I go in there & make the room a worse disaster & they

have to start over on cleaning the room. If they are doing something that

involves the health of the whole household such as dishes or the bathroom &

they do a terrible job more than 5 times, the rule is that every dish in the

house will be washed by that child. I don't have very many takers for most

of these punishments. No spanking is involved, but they get my point. I have

made child sweep a room 8 times because each time it was not done correctly.

That child never forgot how to sweep floors.

If my youngest ones get spanked they will agree themselves that they

deserved it. I pick & choose my battles with them wisely. The oldest 2 were

my experimental models, my youngest are the finished product. With each

child I have gained wisdom & new methods of living without spanking. Since I

never had proper upbringing to begin with, I don't think that I have done

too badly. I really do hate spanking my kids, but I will use it before I see

them on the road to the jailhouse or worse. Some kids it just takes that

kind of commitment, others....? Are not angels but you can reason with them

& make them see the light just with words.

Debbie

Re: Pro Smacking Limits

>

> In a message dated 7/6/2004 8:39:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> sleddog@... writes:

>

> > Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very

> fast

> > how to manage their parents.

>

> I totally agree !! My sister, becasue of our childhood refused to spank

her

> first child...she'd sit him down ( at 1 year of age, no less) and explain

> why his behavior was not acceptable that kid is really messed up..the

> second child was spanked when he needed it as a young child...and he's

> totally normal...

>

>

> But if thats the your argument behind hitting how do you explain

> all the examples of children who are NOT hit and still grow up to be

loving,

> responsible adults without any problems? Before you say none exist there

are

> several examples here on this board of strong women who managed to raise

great

> kids without hitting or spanking. To insinuate all kids who arent

disciplined

> by physical punishment grow up to be " messed up " discounts all the

success

> stories of women who did just that!

>

> And as some have already said the prison sysrem is full of people who

> were spanked ( No I am not saying all kids spanked go to jail or we

wouldnt be

> free to type here, lol ) So if some kids spanked go to jail, others dont

and

> if some kids not spanked go to jail and others dont- well dont we owe it

to

> ourselves to figure out what the ones who didnt spank and whose kids

didnt go

> to jail did right?

>

>

>

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Hon,

I can tell you the difference without having to do research. It is the kids,

the time, the place, the situation, The parents, & the background of all

involved. Its also the temperament of the child. To be honest, I also think

its in the gene pool the child gets.

It could also be whether or not the child has a learning difference, but

don't quote me on that one.

I don't say that it isn't possible to raise any child without spanking, but

there are so many kids out there that will test you like my nephew. My

oldest daughter very rarely got a spanking for anything because the other

methods would work. I have rarely ever spanked my own youngest 2 children.

Not because I felt that it was wrong. But because if other ways work there

is not a need for spanking. A spanking is reserved for the times when

nothing else works including shoveling dog poo. I have a set of books here

written by a woman 100 years ago. She stated that if you distract a child

from being ugly by getting their attention on something else the mood should

pass with practice. I already know that hard work is great for getting out

anger. So if a child is angry they get hard work around here. If a child

volunteers someone else for a chore, that child gets the chore not the

person they volunteered. If a child is told to clean his/her room & they

slop over it & hide crap under the bed, don't sweep, or take 2 hours to fold

5 pieces of clothing I go in there & make the room a worse disaster & they

have to start over on cleaning the room. If they are doing something that

involves the health of the whole household such as dishes or the bathroom &

they do a terrible job more than 5 times, the rule is that every dish in the

house will be washed by that child. I don't have very many takers for most

of these punishments. No spanking is involved, but they get my point. I have

made child sweep a room 8 times because each time it was not done correctly.

That child never forgot how to sweep floors.

If my youngest ones get spanked they will agree themselves that they

deserved it. I pick & choose my battles with them wisely. The oldest 2 were

my experimental models, my youngest are the finished product. With each

child I have gained wisdom & new methods of living without spanking. Since I

never had proper upbringing to begin with, I don't think that I have done

too badly. I really do hate spanking my kids, but I will use it before I see

them on the road to the jailhouse or worse. Some kids it just takes that

kind of commitment, others....? Are not angels but you can reason with them

& make them see the light just with words.

Debbie

Re: Pro Smacking Limits

>

> In a message dated 7/6/2004 8:39:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> sleddog@... writes:

>

> > Then you best learn psychology & head games very well. Kids learn very

> fast

> > how to manage their parents.

>

> I totally agree !! My sister, becasue of our childhood refused to spank

her

> first child...she'd sit him down ( at 1 year of age, no less) and explain

> why his behavior was not acceptable that kid is really messed up..the

> second child was spanked when he needed it as a young child...and he's

> totally normal...

>

>

> But if thats the your argument behind hitting how do you explain

> all the examples of children who are NOT hit and still grow up to be

loving,

> responsible adults without any problems? Before you say none exist there

are

> several examples here on this board of strong women who managed to raise

great

> kids without hitting or spanking. To insinuate all kids who arent

disciplined

> by physical punishment grow up to be " messed up " discounts all the

success

> stories of women who did just that!

>

> And as some have already said the prison sysrem is full of people who

> were spanked ( No I am not saying all kids spanked go to jail or we

wouldnt be

> free to type here, lol ) So if some kids spanked go to jail, others dont

and

> if some kids not spanked go to jail and others dont- well dont we owe it

to

> ourselves to figure out what the ones who didnt spank and whose kids

didnt go

> to jail did right?

>

>

>

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