Re: Help me interpret nada's message

[Guest guest]

> Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

......> " I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it

is

> true, I failed as a Mother.I am so sorry.I thought I was doing all

> the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

> things. I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

> had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too. In teaching

> you, my example was not good enough, I know that. I know you both

> love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You felt

> you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them. I

> don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and looking

back

> is too hard any more. God must have wanted me to take this hard

look

> and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

> gives us and I have always known that. I guess I was

> just too concerned with " me " to have been successful. With this

> Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

> failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not injured

> you too badly. I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger and

> that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well done " .

> I love you both and I am so sorry.

> Mom "

****** Not knowing your nada, I cannot even guess if there is any

sincerity in this message or not. My personal experience with my nada

was that after a year of avoiding her, she called one day on the

telephone and apologized. She was very aware of why I was upset,

which was interesting to me, since she always (for 58 years!) would

act like she was totally unaware that she did anything wrong. Her

apology, however, was meant to hoover me back into the foo dynamics.

She was upset and sorry, but in BPD fashion, it was only a momentary

thing.

In your nada's message, there is only one sentence that refers to you

and your brother. (At least she has some level of awareness here.)

The rest of the message is....all about her! She writes about how

much she tried, but that she failed. She doesn't write about how she

is going to do things differently in the future.

As a KO, I do not give someone with BPD the benefit of the doubt. If

you think there is a possibility of a change in your relationship at

this time, remember to establish all the boundaries you need before

spending time with your nada.

Take care of yourself,

Sylvia

[Guest guest]

> Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

......> " I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it

is

> true, I failed as a Mother.I am so sorry.I thought I was doing all

> the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

> things. I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

> had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too. In teaching

> you, my example was not good enough, I know that. I know you both

> love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You felt

> you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them. I

> don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and looking

back

> is too hard any more. God must have wanted me to take this hard

look

> and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

> gives us and I have always known that. I guess I was

> just too concerned with " me " to have been successful. With this

> Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

> failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not injured

> you too badly. I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger and

> that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well done " .

> I love you both and I am so sorry.

> Mom "

****** Not knowing your nada, I cannot even guess if there is any

sincerity in this message or not. My personal experience with my nada

was that after a year of avoiding her, she called one day on the

telephone and apologized. She was very aware of why I was upset,

which was interesting to me, since she always (for 58 years!) would

act like she was totally unaware that she did anything wrong. Her

apology, however, was meant to hoover me back into the foo dynamics.

She was upset and sorry, but in BPD fashion, it was only a momentary

thing.

In your nada's message, there is only one sentence that refers to you

and your brother. (At least she has some level of awareness here.)

The rest of the message is....all about her! She writes about how

much she tried, but that she failed. She doesn't write about how she

is going to do things differently in the future.

As a KO, I do not give someone with BPD the benefit of the doubt. If

you think there is a possibility of a change in your relationship at

this time, remember to establish all the boundaries you need before

spending time with your nada.

Take care of yourself,

Sylvia

[Guest guest]

It feels like manipulation to me but in the back of my mind it also

rings like a suicide note. Since the email we have not been in contact

and I feel releived in a sense, yet I feel guilt. Thanks for you

insight.

lleigh

> > Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

> >

> Does it sound sincere to you, or could it be a manipulation mean't to

> keep you involved? Also,not knowing your nada of course, I hear an

> almost blamey sound to it. When my nada says she failed in some way

> with us , it is in attempt to point out how screwed up we are. I wish

> you clairty in this situation. Take care. Ivy

[Guest guest]

It feels like manipulation to me but in the back of my mind it also

rings like a suicide note. Since the email we have not been in contact

and I feel releived in a sense, yet I feel guilt. Thanks for you

insight.

lleigh

> > Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

> >

> Does it sound sincere to you, or could it be a manipulation mean't to

> keep you involved? Also,not knowing your nada of course, I hear an

> almost blamey sound to it. When my nada says she failed in some way

> with us , it is in attempt to point out how screwed up we are. I wish

> you clairty in this situation. Take care. Ivy

[Guest guest]

Wow, you are so right about only one sentence about me and my brother

and the rest about her. If this were the good old days I would think

she was possessed by demons. There are times she seems ok but then

this dark side takes over.

When my nada was 10 her father was going to take her to the circus

and he feel ill. Nada was so angry that she said, " I hate you and

wish you would die. " He died of a heart attack that night. I really

think this trama is the underlying event that caused nada's mental

instablity.

I understand the events in her life and know that it is a mental

illness. Yet, I cannot go on being the focus of her anger. Since the

email we have been out of contact which has been a relief. Although I

know she will contact me and the roller coaster will start all over.

Leigh

> > Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

> .....> " I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess

it

> is

> > true, I failed as a Mother.I am so sorry.I thought I was doing

all

> > the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

> > things. I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

> > had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too. In

teaching

> > you, my example was not good enough, I know that. I know you both

> > love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You

felt

> > you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them. I

> > don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and looking

> back

> > is too hard any more. God must have wanted me to take this hard

> look

> > and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

> > gives us and I have always known that. I guess I was

> > just too concerned with " me " to have been successful. With this

> > Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

> > failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not injured

> > you too badly. I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger

and

> > that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well

done " .

> > I love you both and I am so sorry.

> > Mom "

>

> ****** Not knowing your nada, I cannot even guess if there is any

> sincerity in this message or not. My personal experience with my

nada

> was that after a year of avoiding her, she called one day on the

> telephone and apologized. She was very aware of why I was upset,

> which was interesting to me, since she always (for 58 years!) would

> act like she was totally unaware that she did anything wrong. Her

> apology, however, was meant to hoover me back into the foo

dynamics.

> She was upset and sorry, but in BPD fashion, it was only a

momentary

> thing.

>

> In your nada's message, there is only one sentence that refers to

you

> and your brother. (At least she has some level of awareness

here.)

> The rest of the message is....all about her! She writes about how

> much she tried, but that she failed. She doesn't write about how

she

> is going to do things differently in the future.

>

> As a KO, I do not give someone with BPD the benefit of the doubt.

If

> you think there is a possibility of a change in your relationship

at

> this time, remember to establish all the boundaries you need before

> spending time with your nada.

>

> Take care of yourself,

>

> Sylvia

[Guest guest]

Wow, you are so right about only one sentence about me and my brother

and the rest about her. If this were the good old days I would think

she was possessed by demons. There are times she seems ok but then

this dark side takes over.

When my nada was 10 her father was going to take her to the circus

and he feel ill. Nada was so angry that she said, " I hate you and

wish you would die. " He died of a heart attack that night. I really

think this trama is the underlying event that caused nada's mental

instablity.

I understand the events in her life and know that it is a mental

illness. Yet, I cannot go on being the focus of her anger. Since the

email we have been out of contact which has been a relief. Although I

know she will contact me and the roller coaster will start all over.

Leigh

> > Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

> .....> " I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess

it

> is

> > true, I failed as a Mother.I am so sorry.I thought I was doing

all

> > the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

> > things. I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

> > had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too. In

teaching

> > you, my example was not good enough, I know that. I know you both

> > love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You

felt

> > you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them. I

> > don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and looking

> back

> > is too hard any more. God must have wanted me to take this hard

> look

> > and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

> > gives us and I have always known that. I guess I was

> > just too concerned with " me " to have been successful. With this

> > Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

> > failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not injured

> > you too badly. I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger

and

> > that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well

done " .

> > I love you both and I am so sorry.

> > Mom "

>

> ****** Not knowing your nada, I cannot even guess if there is any

> sincerity in this message or not. My personal experience with my

nada

> was that after a year of avoiding her, she called one day on the

> telephone and apologized. She was very aware of why I was upset,

> which was interesting to me, since she always (for 58 years!) would

> act like she was totally unaware that she did anything wrong. Her

> apology, however, was meant to hoover me back into the foo

dynamics.

> She was upset and sorry, but in BPD fashion, it was only a

momentary

> thing.

>

> In your nada's message, there is only one sentence that refers to

you

> and your brother. (At least she has some level of awareness

here.)

> The rest of the message is....all about her! She writes about how

> much she tried, but that she failed. She doesn't write about how

she

> is going to do things differently in the future.

>

> As a KO, I do not give someone with BPD the benefit of the doubt.

If

> you think there is a possibility of a change in your relationship

at

> this time, remember to establish all the boundaries you need before

> spending time with your nada.

>

> Take care of yourself,

>

> Sylvia

[Guest guest]

--- " lleigh45 " <lleigh45@y...> wrote:

> Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

<<putting on Nada-decoder ring>>

> I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it is

> true, I failed as a Mother.

So she is " sorry " , but the tragedy is hers, not yours.

> I am so sorry. I thought I was doing all

> the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

> things.

Woe is her. Everything she did is wrong. Sounds like the grandiose

BP ego is working itself out here by being the most spectacular

failure, and if you'll notice it's still all about her.

> I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

> had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too.

So you are a " lost soul " , eh? I guess the implication being that if

you had faith in God, you would not view your Nada as a " failure " .

Does she seriously think that if you " got religion " you'd suddenly

have no problems with her behaviour? Is she putting herself up for

sainthood now, or what? There's a distinct " martyred " tone to the

whole thing, I think.

> In teaching

> you, my example was not good enough, I know that.

Still with the " Oh poor me, how tragic that I wasn't good enough. "

But she's still keeping all the tragedy for herself, isn't she?

> I know you both

> love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You felt

> you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them.

This looks on the surface like a concession to some degree ( " maybe I

needed them " ). But the previous sentence negates it. To me this

translates to " You expected me to be a bad mother, and it's your lack

of faith that caused me to fail. "

> I don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and

> looking back is too hard any more.

Ooooooo, nasty. So now she's too " tired " to take any responsiblity

for anything that happened in the past. She's giving herself

permission to label you a cruel monster if you hold her accountable

for ANYTHING.

> God must have wanted me to take this hard look

> and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

> gives us and I have always known that.

So God planned all your childhood suffering so that Nada could have

this moment of alleged personal growth? Puh-leeeeeeze.

> I guess I was

> just too concerned with " me " to have been successful.

Well, that's true! And it's STILL all about her isn't it?

> With this

> Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

> failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not injured

> you too badly.

Now if a really loving mother learned that she had injured her

children, she wouldn't just be going on about how sorry she was.

She'd be all about THEM: " Tell me where it hurts and how can I fix

it? " I hear none of that. What she's telling you is that EVEN IF

SHE DID INJURE YOU, YOUR RECOVERY IS YOUR PROBLEM! She's too " humble

and tired " to help heal any of the hurt she caused. One of my Nada's

favourite refrains along this line was " you can't hold anything

against me because I always did the best I could " . She used that

with considerable success to defect all responsiblity for her actions.

> I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger and

> that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well done " .

Here we go with the martyr thing again. So she prays that you will

be less miserable than she is when you get to her age. The

implications being that (a) nobody is more miserable than her and (

if you are less miserable than she is at her age, she will deserve

credit for that because she prayed for you. There's also a hint

of " If you are happy, it won't be because you deserve it! "

> I love you both and I am so sorry.

I completely agree with Sylvia that this is " all about her " , but I

couldn't find the one sentence she said wasn't!

Now my inner Editor wants to point something out: There are 15

sentences in this email and the subject of 12 of them is " I " ! 2 of

the other 3 are all about her, and the only one where " you " is the

subject, she's talking about how badly you treated HER.

(Grammatically, this shows a pretty pathological degree of self-

absorption!)

There is ZERO awareness of your experience, your feelings, your pain,

let alone taking responsiblity for her actions causing them!

If I had to sum it up I'd say it means: " I am such a miserable

failure and am suffering so much, that you MUST feel sorry for me. "

Notice she doesn't ask for forgiveness, she EXPECTS absolution.

In " BP logic " , her extreme self-pity entitles her to absolution for

anything she might have done. A real mother would only think about

herself enough to beg your forgiveness AFTER she'd done everything

she could to help you heal.

I think one of the hardest things for us KOs to wrap our heads around

is that to our Nadas/Fadas, other people are just not real; they are

objects with no thoughts and feelings other than what Nada/Fada

projects onto them.

I had to go through a brutal grieving process to let go of the hope

that somehow I could somehow " get through " to my Nada and she'd

really SEE me. The grief still revisits me even though my Nada's

been dead for 6 years now, but it does get easier.

One of the hardest lessons for me was that it's crucial not to

interpret Nada-speak from the nonBP perspective, where other people

ARE real and DO matter...you'll get hoovered for sure!

Hugs,

[Guest guest]

--- " lleigh45 " <lleigh45@y...> wrote:

> Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

<<putting on Nada-decoder ring>>

> I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it is

> true, I failed as a Mother.

So she is " sorry " , but the tragedy is hers, not yours.

> I am so sorry. I thought I was doing all

> the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

> things.

Woe is her. Everything she did is wrong. Sounds like the grandiose

BP ego is working itself out here by being the most spectacular

failure, and if you'll notice it's still all about her.

> I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

> had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too.

So you are a " lost soul " , eh? I guess the implication being that if

you had faith in God, you would not view your Nada as a " failure " .

Does she seriously think that if you " got religion " you'd suddenly

have no problems with her behaviour? Is she putting herself up for

sainthood now, or what? There's a distinct " martyred " tone to the

whole thing, I think.

> In teaching

> you, my example was not good enough, I know that.

Still with the " Oh poor me, how tragic that I wasn't good enough. "

But she's still keeping all the tragedy for herself, isn't she?

> I know you both

> love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You felt

> you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them.

This looks on the surface like a concession to some degree ( " maybe I

needed them " ). But the previous sentence negates it. To me this

translates to " You expected me to be a bad mother, and it's your lack

of faith that caused me to fail. "

> I don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and

> looking back is too hard any more.

Ooooooo, nasty. So now she's too " tired " to take any responsiblity

for anything that happened in the past. She's giving herself

permission to label you a cruel monster if you hold her accountable

for ANYTHING.

> God must have wanted me to take this hard look

> and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

> gives us and I have always known that.

So God planned all your childhood suffering so that Nada could have

this moment of alleged personal growth? Puh-leeeeeeze.

> I guess I was

> just too concerned with " me " to have been successful.

Well, that's true! And it's STILL all about her isn't it?

> With this

> Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

> failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not injured

> you too badly.

Now if a really loving mother learned that she had injured her

children, she wouldn't just be going on about how sorry she was.

She'd be all about THEM: " Tell me where it hurts and how can I fix

it? " I hear none of that. What she's telling you is that EVEN IF

SHE DID INJURE YOU, YOUR RECOVERY IS YOUR PROBLEM! She's too " humble

and tired " to help heal any of the hurt she caused. One of my Nada's

favourite refrains along this line was " you can't hold anything

against me because I always did the best I could " . She used that

with considerable success to defect all responsiblity for her actions.

> I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger and

> that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well done " .

Here we go with the martyr thing again. So she prays that you will

be less miserable than she is when you get to her age. The

implications being that (a) nobody is more miserable than her and (

if you are less miserable than she is at her age, she will deserve

credit for that because she prayed for you. There's also a hint

of " If you are happy, it won't be because you deserve it! "

> I love you both and I am so sorry.

I completely agree with Sylvia that this is " all about her " , but I

couldn't find the one sentence she said wasn't!

Now my inner Editor wants to point something out: There are 15

sentences in this email and the subject of 12 of them is " I " ! 2 of

the other 3 are all about her, and the only one where " you " is the

subject, she's talking about how badly you treated HER.

(Grammatically, this shows a pretty pathological degree of self-

absorption!)

There is ZERO awareness of your experience, your feelings, your pain,

let alone taking responsiblity for her actions causing them!

If I had to sum it up I'd say it means: " I am such a miserable

failure and am suffering so much, that you MUST feel sorry for me. "

Notice she doesn't ask for forgiveness, she EXPECTS absolution.

In " BP logic " , her extreme self-pity entitles her to absolution for

anything she might have done. A real mother would only think about

herself enough to beg your forgiveness AFTER she'd done everything

she could to help you heal.

I think one of the hardest things for us KOs to wrap our heads around

is that to our Nadas/Fadas, other people are just not real; they are

objects with no thoughts and feelings other than what Nada/Fada

projects onto them.

I had to go through a brutal grieving process to let go of the hope

that somehow I could somehow " get through " to my Nada and she'd

really SEE me. The grief still revisits me even though my Nada's

been dead for 6 years now, but it does get easier.

One of the hardest lessons for me was that it's crucial not to

interpret Nada-speak from the nonBP perspective, where other people

ARE real and DO matter...you'll get hoovered for sure!

Hugs,

[Guest guest]

--- " lleigh45 " <lleigh45@y...> wrote:

> When my nada was 10 her father was going to take her to the circus

> and he feel ill. Nada was so angry that she said, " I hate you and

> wish you would die. " He died of a heart attack that night. I really

> think this trama is the underlying event that caused nada's mental

> instablity.

I have to disagree with you here, lleigh. A " normal " 10 year old is

old enough to understand and cope with this kind of thing. This is,

emotionally, a 2-3 year-old reaction. I think, rather, that your

Nada's BP was already manifesting.

Hugs,

[Guest guest]

--- " lleigh45 " <lleigh45@y...> wrote:

> It feels like manipulation to me but in the back of my mind it also

> rings like a suicide note.

I don't know about the " suicide " part (I'd need to know more about

your Nada's history to assess that), but it's totally a ploy to get

you to feel sorry for her.

Hugs,

[Guest guest]

--- " lleigh45 " <lleigh45@y...> wrote:

> It feels like manipulation to me but in the back of my mind it also

> rings like a suicide note.

I don't know about the " suicide " part (I'd need to know more about

your Nada's history to assess that), but it's totally a ploy to get

you to feel sorry for her.

Hugs,

[Guest guest]

Although I know she will contact me and the roller coaster will start

all over.

Leigh

****Hi Leigh,

I think that the only way the roller coaster will start over is if you

choose to take a ticket and get on the ride. You are empowered now

that you know all about BPD and you can set boundaries and make good

choices in how to deal with your nada. It isn't wasy, but it can ba

done, especially with the support and adivce from all of the KO's

here.

Let nada ride the roller coaster alone!

Di.

[Guest guest]

Although I know she will contact me and the roller coaster will start

all over.

Leigh

****Hi Leigh,

I think that the only way the roller coaster will start over is if you

choose to take a ticket and get on the ride. You are empowered now

that you know all about BPD and you can set boundaries and make good

choices in how to deal with your nada. It isn't wasy, but it can ba

done, especially with the support and adivce from all of the KO's

here.

Let nada ride the roller coaster alone!

Di.

[Guest guest]

" lleigh45 " wrote:

When my nada was 10 her father was going to take her to the circus

and he feel ill. Nada was so angry that she said, " I hate you and

wish you would die. " He died of a heart attack that night. I really

think this trama is the underlying event that caused nada's mental

instablity.

I have to disagree with you here, lleigh. A " normal " 10 year old is

old enough to understand and cope with this kind of thing. This is,

emotionally, a 2-3 year-old reaction. I think, rather, that your

Nada's BP was already manifesting.

Hugs,

**** I have to add my 2 cents worth here- as a mom of a 10 year old

and someone who works with kids- A 10 year old would only

understand and believe this is NOT true if they had a positive adult

role model to tell them that they did not cause the event. They

would have to be told many times that they were not the cause of the

incident, that there thoughts and words were not the reason dad

died. The child would need to hear this consistantly over a peiod of

time.

We are taught that if we want something bad enough, pray hard

enough, that it will happen. Think of a kid who believes that they

are the reason that the parents are divoricing. Developmentally,

kids don't have get cause and effect reasoning to think beyond " it

was my fault for thinking it " until the teen years.

I do agree that the manifestation of the BPD may have been already

in motion- if nada was already stuck at a younger level than she

would possibly be unable to grow beyond that incident.

My nada was coming home from school doing the " if you step on a

crack, you will break your mother's back " thing. She had been mad at

her mother, so was making sure to step on every crack. When she got

home she learned that her mother had fallen and was in the hospital

with broken vertebrae. Funny now, but at the time nada was horrified.

Di.

[Guest guest]

" lleigh45 " wrote:

When my nada was 10 her father was going to take her to the circus

and he feel ill. Nada was so angry that she said, " I hate you and

wish you would die. " He died of a heart attack that night. I really

think this trama is the underlying event that caused nada's mental

instablity.

I have to disagree with you here, lleigh. A " normal " 10 year old is

old enough to understand and cope with this kind of thing. This is,

emotionally, a 2-3 year-old reaction. I think, rather, that your

Nada's BP was already manifesting.

Hugs,

**** I have to add my 2 cents worth here- as a mom of a 10 year old

and someone who works with kids- A 10 year old would only

understand and believe this is NOT true if they had a positive adult

role model to tell them that they did not cause the event. They

would have to be told many times that they were not the cause of the

incident, that there thoughts and words were not the reason dad

died. The child would need to hear this consistantly over a peiod of

time.

We are taught that if we want something bad enough, pray hard

enough, that it will happen. Think of a kid who believes that they

are the reason that the parents are divoricing. Developmentally,

kids don't have get cause and effect reasoning to think beyond " it

was my fault for thinking it " until the teen years.

I do agree that the manifestation of the BPD may have been already

in motion- if nada was already stuck at a younger level than she

would possibly be unable to grow beyond that incident.

My nada was coming home from school doing the " if you step on a

crack, you will break your mother's back " thing. She had been mad at

her mother, so was making sure to step on every crack. When she got

home she learned that her mother had fallen and was in the hospital

with broken vertebrae. Funny now, but at the time nada was horrified.

Di.

[Guest guest]

****Hi Leigh,

I think that the only way the roller coaster will start over is if you

choose to take a ticket and get on the ride. You are empowered now

that you know all about BPD and you can set boundaries and make good

choices in how to deal with your nada. It isn't wasy, but it can ba

done, especially with the support and adivce from all of the KO's

here.

Let nada ride the roller coaster alone!

Di.

***Ugh, sorry for the typos- " it isn't easy, but it can be done " . I

shouldn't try to type when I have a hyperactive, 10 year old flitting

about distracting me!

Di.

[Guest guest]

****Hi Leigh,

I think that the only way the roller coaster will start over is if you

choose to take a ticket and get on the ride. You are empowered now

that you know all about BPD and you can set boundaries and make good

choices in how to deal with your nada. It isn't wasy, but it can ba

done, especially with the support and adivce from all of the KO's

here.

Let nada ride the roller coaster alone!

Di.

***Ugh, sorry for the typos- " it isn't easy, but it can be done " . I

shouldn't try to type when I have a hyperactive, 10 year old flitting

about distracting me!

Di.

[Guest guest]

****Hi Leigh,

I think that the only way the roller coaster will start over is if you

choose to take a ticket and get on the ride. You are empowered now

that you know all about BPD and you can set boundaries and make good

choices in how to deal with your nada. It isn't wasy, but it can ba

done, especially with the support and adivce from all of the KO's

here.

Let nada ride the roller coaster alone!

Di.

***Ugh, sorry for the typos- " it isn't easy, but it can be done " . I

shouldn't try to type when I have a hyperactive, 10 year old flitting

about distracting me!

Di.

[Guest guest]

At the age of nineteen, I find that I have become very cynical with everything

concerning my nada out of survival more than anything (a constant

filter/barrier). My mother said the same thing a while back. However, in the

process of doing so, she revealed to me just how insincere she actually was

being.

" I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it is

true, I failed as a Mother.”

This statement makes me feel guilty, personally. Your nada understands that she

finally got you on the ropes and that you might actually contemplate leaving

her. With this thought looming over her, she is trying desperately to keep you

in her life – the “I hate you, don’t leave me syndrome.” In nada’s sick and

twisted logic, this makes perfect sense. Therefore, she has pushed you away out

of anger, now she is pulling you back with guilt.

“I thought I was doing all the right things at the time but I see now, I did all

the wrong things. I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents had and

that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too.”

She is a master at playing the helpless victim. She is now making this about

herself instead of about you. Tell me this, has she ever asked you “What do you

want? What would make you happy?” If my mother ever asked me this question, I

think that I would die from shock. It also appears that she views her parents,

your grandparents as “all-good” people and you and your sister as “all-bad”

people due to the “faith in God that my parents had” statement. By even

mentioning their names, she is invoking their pleasant memories and diverting

your attention away from her and her emotional disorder.

“In teaching you, my example was not good enough, I know that.”

Understatement of the century.

“I know you both love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me.”

This maybe true, however, this fact is a result of her behavior and not your

behavior. When you hit a dog enough, it learns to go inside its cage when you

enter the room; it learns a behavior that causes the least amount a pain (it’s

simple psychology).

“You felt you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them, I don't

know. I only know that I am humbled and tired and looking back is too hard any

more.”

Once again, she is playing the helpless victim and will not assume personally

responsibility for her actions. Note the “maybe I needed them, I don't know”

phrase. She has no intention of changing her behavior because she regards your

point of view as flawed, below her point of view and incorrect. This is another

example of how the BPD mother thinks in absolutes. You are wrong and I a right,

you are evil and I am good. The last phrase is also another attempt to divert

your attention and make you feel guilty. “I am humbled and tired and looking

back is too hard any more.” How is trying to fool? This is an interesting for of

projection – when the BPD takes their feelings and places them on someone else.

She is taking your feelings and placing them on herself in hopes that you will

identify with her (“I know how you feel”) and come back to her. “Looking back is

too hard any more” – assume personal responsibility, never.

“I guess I was just too concerned with " me " to have been successful.”

She is correct. However, has she come to this conclusion without therapy? If so,

I would guess that either (1) she has finally come to the ultimate conclusion

that she has an emotional disorder that has ruined her mother daughter

relationship or (2) she is just telling you what you want to hear. Which is more

likely? I think that (2) is more likely.

The last part of her letter is difficult to separate the sincerity from the BPD.

The overall take-home message from this letter: “Thank goodness that you have

finally realized what has been going on mom. Now YOU can get YOURSELF better,

while I work on MYSELF.”

I great analogy from Stop Walking on Eggshells – be a lighthouse. You can only

be a guiding beacon in the night. But, you can’t wade out into the water and

pull the ships to safety. They have to follow your lead. If they don’t, there is

nothing you can do to prevent the inevitable.

~scribble

A B wrote:

For what it is worth, here is my take on your nadas e-mail....

Typically one of the core issues for individuals with BPD is a fear of

abandonment. This is the " paradox " with BPD; people with this disorder behave

in ways that push others away, yet they are so desparate not to be abandoned.

There is a title of a book that highlights this: " I hate you--Don't Leave Me "

(Kreisman & Straus, 1989). Your effort to set boundaries with your nada may

have been perceived as you abandoning her. Her e-mail may be a " Don't Leave Me "

move. Just my thoughts....

AB

yolande naud wrote:

Wow...I would be confused receiving an email like that after all of the previous

events. When I read this I can only see a split personnality. One that is

controlling and mean and the other who is humble and can reflect her own acts.

I remember reading that BPD rarely comes alone, often other disorders are

present. As far as advice on this one, I would sincerely myself not know what

to do. Hope someone on this board had a similar experience and can help.

Yolande

lleigh45 wrote:

Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

I appreciated this support group's insight and guidance. Below is

the last contact I have had with nada since since the trip to

Phoenix to see her. The e-mail she sent is attached to the end of

this posting.

To summarize the trip:

I took my children to Phoenix(we live in the northwest) because she

begged to see her grandchildren and she acted out before I

arrived.It was a huge emotional roller coaster and she was on the

attack! She accused me of keeping the grandkids from her and that I

was the worst daughter that anyone could have.I felt I was in a no-

win situation and the rules kept changing with every attempt to do

right in her eyes.

She also had called my sister-in-law who lives in Phoenix yelled at

her because she got baseball tickets for the boys and I and hung up

the phone on her. Later she lied that my sister-in-law yelled and

her and that is why she hung up on her.

My sister-in-law, brother, my children, and myself were full of

anxiety before I stepped foot on the plane. So I set a clear boundry

that this behavior was not acceptable and I made the mistake of

asking her to behave. (This is before I read Eggshells and learned

about I statements)

After I asked her to behave she went into attack mode. She followed

each of the countermove tactics.

THE SPIN: She told me I was the worse daughter anyone could have.

LABELING: She told me I was a " real peice of work. "

PATHOLOGIZING: I caused so much hurt in the past but this was the

ultimate hurt.

ENLISTING ALLIES:She sent my e-mails to her friend who suggested

that daughters should never act this way and I was the most

disrespectful daughter she has ever heard of.

Since the e-mail below we have not had verbal contact. For mothers

day and her birthday I sent a gift of which she refused and it was

returned by the post office. For my birthday she sent a used

backpack, unwrapped with a card from my step father (her

handwriting), not her. I also recieved an e-card from step father. I

tried to reply and attempted to write a thank you and my e-mail was

returned as a demon mailer. My step father has no idea he sent a

gift or e-mail.

Please read the attached email and let me know what you think.

" I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it is

true, I failed as a Mother.I am so sorry.I thought I was doing all

the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

things. I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too. In teaching

you, my example was not good enough, I know that. I know you both

love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You felt

you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them. I

don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and looking back

is too hard any more. God must have wanted me to take this hard look

and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

gives us and I have always known that. I guess I was

just too concerned with " me " to have been successful. With this

Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not injured

you too badly. I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger and

that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well done " .

I love you both and I am so sorry.

Mom "

Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

" Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

http://www.BPDCentral.com

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

At the age of nineteen, I find that I have become very cynical with everything

concerning my nada out of survival more than anything (a constant

filter/barrier). My mother said the same thing a while back. However, in the

process of doing so, she revealed to me just how insincere she actually was

being.

" I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it is

true, I failed as a Mother.”

This statement makes me feel guilty, personally. Your nada understands that she

finally got you on the ropes and that you might actually contemplate leaving

her. With this thought looming over her, she is trying desperately to keep you

in her life – the “I hate you, don’t leave me syndrome.” In nada’s sick and

twisted logic, this makes perfect sense. Therefore, she has pushed you away out

of anger, now she is pulling you back with guilt.

“I thought I was doing all the right things at the time but I see now, I did all

the wrong things. I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents had and

that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too.”

She is a master at playing the helpless victim. She is now making this about

herself instead of about you. Tell me this, has she ever asked you “What do you

want? What would make you happy?” If my mother ever asked me this question, I

think that I would die from shock. It also appears that she views her parents,

your grandparents as “all-good” people and you and your sister as “all-bad”

people due to the “faith in God that my parents had” statement. By even

mentioning their names, she is invoking their pleasant memories and diverting

your attention away from her and her emotional disorder.

“In teaching you, my example was not good enough, I know that.”

Understatement of the century.

“I know you both love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me.”

This maybe true, however, this fact is a result of her behavior and not your

behavior. When you hit a dog enough, it learns to go inside its cage when you

enter the room; it learns a behavior that causes the least amount a pain (it’s

simple psychology).

“You felt you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them, I don't

know. I only know that I am humbled and tired and looking back is too hard any

more.”

Once again, she is playing the helpless victim and will not assume personally

responsibility for her actions. Note the “maybe I needed them, I don't know”

phrase. She has no intention of changing her behavior because she regards your

point of view as flawed, below her point of view and incorrect. This is another

example of how the BPD mother thinks in absolutes. You are wrong and I a right,

you are evil and I am good. The last phrase is also another attempt to divert

your attention and make you feel guilty. “I am humbled and tired and looking

back is too hard any more.” How is trying to fool? This is an interesting for of

projection – when the BPD takes their feelings and places them on someone else.

She is taking your feelings and placing them on herself in hopes that you will

identify with her (“I know how you feel”) and come back to her. “Looking back is

too hard any more” – assume personal responsibility, never.

“I guess I was just too concerned with " me " to have been successful.”

She is correct. However, has she come to this conclusion without therapy? If so,

I would guess that either (1) she has finally come to the ultimate conclusion

that she has an emotional disorder that has ruined her mother daughter

relationship or (2) she is just telling you what you want to hear. Which is more

likely? I think that (2) is more likely.

The last part of her letter is difficult to separate the sincerity from the BPD.

The overall take-home message from this letter: “Thank goodness that you have

finally realized what has been going on mom. Now YOU can get YOURSELF better,

while I work on MYSELF.”

I great analogy from Stop Walking on Eggshells – be a lighthouse. You can only

be a guiding beacon in the night. But, you can’t wade out into the water and

pull the ships to safety. They have to follow your lead. If they don’t, there is

nothing you can do to prevent the inevitable.

~scribble

A B wrote:

For what it is worth, here is my take on your nadas e-mail....

Typically one of the core issues for individuals with BPD is a fear of

abandonment. This is the " paradox " with BPD; people with this disorder behave

in ways that push others away, yet they are so desparate not to be abandoned.

There is a title of a book that highlights this: " I hate you--Don't Leave Me "

(Kreisman & Straus, 1989). Your effort to set boundaries with your nada may

have been perceived as you abandoning her. Her e-mail may be a " Don't Leave Me "

move. Just my thoughts....

AB

yolande naud wrote:

Wow...I would be confused receiving an email like that after all of the previous

events. When I read this I can only see a split personnality. One that is

controlling and mean and the other who is humble and can reflect her own acts.

I remember reading that BPD rarely comes alone, often other disorders are

present. As far as advice on this one, I would sincerely myself not know what

to do. Hope someone on this board had a similar experience and can help.

Yolande

lleigh45 wrote:

Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

I appreciated this support group's insight and guidance. Below is

the last contact I have had with nada since since the trip to

Phoenix to see her. The e-mail she sent is attached to the end of

this posting.

To summarize the trip:

I took my children to Phoenix(we live in the northwest) because she

begged to see her grandchildren and she acted out before I

arrived.It was a huge emotional roller coaster and she was on the

attack! She accused me of keeping the grandkids from her and that I

was the worst daughter that anyone could have.I felt I was in a no-

win situation and the rules kept changing with every attempt to do

right in her eyes.

She also had called my sister-in-law who lives in Phoenix yelled at

her because she got baseball tickets for the boys and I and hung up

the phone on her. Later she lied that my sister-in-law yelled and

her and that is why she hung up on her.

My sister-in-law, brother, my children, and myself were full of

anxiety before I stepped foot on the plane. So I set a clear boundry

that this behavior was not acceptable and I made the mistake of

asking her to behave. (This is before I read Eggshells and learned

about I statements)

After I asked her to behave she went into attack mode. She followed

each of the countermove tactics.

THE SPIN: She told me I was the worse daughter anyone could have.

LABELING: She told me I was a " real peice of work. "

PATHOLOGIZING: I caused so much hurt in the past but this was the

ultimate hurt.

ENLISTING ALLIES:She sent my e-mails to her friend who suggested

that daughters should never act this way and I was the most

disrespectful daughter she has ever heard of.

Since the e-mail below we have not had verbal contact. For mothers

day and her birthday I sent a gift of which she refused and it was

returned by the post office. For my birthday she sent a used

backpack, unwrapped with a card from my step father (her

handwriting), not her. I also recieved an e-card from step father. I

tried to reply and attempted to write a thank you and my e-mail was

returned as a demon mailer. My step father has no idea he sent a

gift or e-mail.

Please read the attached email and let me know what you think.

" I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it is

true, I failed as a Mother.I am so sorry.I thought I was doing all

the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

things. I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too. In teaching

you, my example was not good enough, I know that. I know you both

love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You felt

you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them. I

don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and looking back

is too hard any more. God must have wanted me to take this hard look

and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

gives us and I have always known that. I guess I was

just too concerned with " me " to have been successful. With this

Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not injured

you too badly. I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger and

that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well done " .

I love you both and I am so sorry.

Mom "

Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

" Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

http://www.BPDCentral.com

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

At the age of nineteen, I find that I have become very cynical with everything

concerning my nada out of survival more than anything (a constant

filter/barrier). My mother said the same thing a while back. However, in the

process of doing so, she revealed to me just how insincere she actually was

being.

" I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it is

true, I failed as a Mother.”

This statement makes me feel guilty, personally. Your nada understands that she

finally got you on the ropes and that you might actually contemplate leaving

her. With this thought looming over her, she is trying desperately to keep you

in her life – the “I hate you, don’t leave me syndrome.” In nada’s sick and

twisted logic, this makes perfect sense. Therefore, she has pushed you away out

of anger, now she is pulling you back with guilt.

“I thought I was doing all the right things at the time but I see now, I did all

the wrong things. I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents had and

that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too.”

She is a master at playing the helpless victim. She is now making this about

herself instead of about you. Tell me this, has she ever asked you “What do you

want? What would make you happy?” If my mother ever asked me this question, I

think that I would die from shock. It also appears that she views her parents,

your grandparents as “all-good” people and you and your sister as “all-bad”

people due to the “faith in God that my parents had” statement. By even

mentioning their names, she is invoking their pleasant memories and diverting

your attention away from her and her emotional disorder.

“In teaching you, my example was not good enough, I know that.”

Understatement of the century.

“I know you both love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me.”

This maybe true, however, this fact is a result of her behavior and not your

behavior. When you hit a dog enough, it learns to go inside its cage when you

enter the room; it learns a behavior that causes the least amount a pain (it’s

simple psychology).

“You felt you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them, I don't

know. I only know that I am humbled and tired and looking back is too hard any

more.”

Once again, she is playing the helpless victim and will not assume personally

responsibility for her actions. Note the “maybe I needed them, I don't know”

phrase. She has no intention of changing her behavior because she regards your

point of view as flawed, below her point of view and incorrect. This is another

example of how the BPD mother thinks in absolutes. You are wrong and I a right,

you are evil and I am good. The last phrase is also another attempt to divert

your attention and make you feel guilty. “I am humbled and tired and looking

back is too hard any more.” How is trying to fool? This is an interesting for of

projection – when the BPD takes their feelings and places them on someone else.

She is taking your feelings and placing them on herself in hopes that you will

identify with her (“I know how you feel”) and come back to her. “Looking back is

too hard any more” – assume personal responsibility, never.

“I guess I was just too concerned with " me " to have been successful.”

She is correct. However, has she come to this conclusion without therapy? If so,

I would guess that either (1) she has finally come to the ultimate conclusion

that she has an emotional disorder that has ruined her mother daughter

relationship or (2) she is just telling you what you want to hear. Which is more

likely? I think that (2) is more likely.

The last part of her letter is difficult to separate the sincerity from the BPD.

The overall take-home message from this letter: “Thank goodness that you have

finally realized what has been going on mom. Now YOU can get YOURSELF better,

while I work on MYSELF.”

I great analogy from Stop Walking on Eggshells – be a lighthouse. You can only

be a guiding beacon in the night. But, you can’t wade out into the water and

pull the ships to safety. They have to follow your lead. If they don’t, there is

nothing you can do to prevent the inevitable.

~scribble

A B wrote:

For what it is worth, here is my take on your nadas e-mail....

Typically one of the core issues for individuals with BPD is a fear of

abandonment. This is the " paradox " with BPD; people with this disorder behave

in ways that push others away, yet they are so desparate not to be abandoned.

There is a title of a book that highlights this: " I hate you--Don't Leave Me "

(Kreisman & Straus, 1989). Your effort to set boundaries with your nada may

have been perceived as you abandoning her. Her e-mail may be a " Don't Leave Me "

move. Just my thoughts....

AB

yolande naud wrote:

Wow...I would be confused receiving an email like that after all of the previous

events. When I read this I can only see a split personnality. One that is

controlling and mean and the other who is humble and can reflect her own acts.

I remember reading that BPD rarely comes alone, often other disorders are

present. As far as advice on this one, I would sincerely myself not know what

to do. Hope someone on this board had a similar experience and can help.

Yolande

lleigh45 wrote:

Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

I appreciated this support group's insight and guidance. Below is

the last contact I have had with nada since since the trip to

Phoenix to see her. The e-mail she sent is attached to the end of

this posting.

To summarize the trip:

I took my children to Phoenix(we live in the northwest) because she

begged to see her grandchildren and she acted out before I

arrived.It was a huge emotional roller coaster and she was on the

attack! She accused me of keeping the grandkids from her and that I

was the worst daughter that anyone could have.I felt I was in a no-

win situation and the rules kept changing with every attempt to do

right in her eyes.

She also had called my sister-in-law who lives in Phoenix yelled at

her because she got baseball tickets for the boys and I and hung up

the phone on her. Later she lied that my sister-in-law yelled and

her and that is why she hung up on her.

My sister-in-law, brother, my children, and myself were full of

anxiety before I stepped foot on the plane. So I set a clear boundry

that this behavior was not acceptable and I made the mistake of

asking her to behave. (This is before I read Eggshells and learned

about I statements)

After I asked her to behave she went into attack mode. She followed

each of the countermove tactics.

THE SPIN: She told me I was the worse daughter anyone could have.

LABELING: She told me I was a " real peice of work. "

PATHOLOGIZING: I caused so much hurt in the past but this was the

ultimate hurt.

ENLISTING ALLIES:She sent my e-mails to her friend who suggested

that daughters should never act this way and I was the most

disrespectful daughter she has ever heard of.

Since the e-mail below we have not had verbal contact. For mothers

day and her birthday I sent a gift of which she refused and it was

returned by the post office. For my birthday she sent a used

backpack, unwrapped with a card from my step father (her

handwriting), not her. I also recieved an e-card from step father. I

tried to reply and attempted to write a thank you and my e-mail was

returned as a demon mailer. My step father has no idea he sent a

gift or e-mail.

Please read the attached email and let me know what you think.

" I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it is

true, I failed as a Mother.I am so sorry.I thought I was doing all

the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

things. I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too. In teaching

you, my example was not good enough, I know that. I know you both

love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You felt

you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them. I

don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and looking back

is too hard any more. God must have wanted me to take this hard look

and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

gives us and I have always known that. I guess I was

just too concerned with " me " to have been successful. With this

Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not injured

you too badly. I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger and

that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well done " .

I love you both and I am so sorry.

Mom "

Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

" Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

http://www.BPDCentral.com

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

WOW!! Great insight and thank you, thank you, thank you.I do not

feel so alone knowing that all of you are here and understand.

lleigh

> Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

>

> I appreciated this support group's insight and guidance. Below is

> the last contact I have had with nada since since the trip to

> Phoenix to see her. The e-mail she sent is attached to the end of

> this posting.

>

> To summarize the trip:

> I took my children to Phoenix(we live in the northwest) because

she

> begged to see her grandchildren and she acted out before I

> arrived.It was a huge emotional roller coaster and she was on the

> attack! She accused me of keeping the grandkids from her and that

I

> was the worst daughter that anyone could have.I felt I was in a no-

> win situation and the rules kept changing with every attempt to do

> right in her eyes.

>

> She also had called my sister-in-law who lives in Phoenix yelled

at

> her because she got baseball tickets for the boys and I and hung

up

> the phone on her. Later she lied that my sister-in-law yelled and

> her and that is why she hung up on her.

>

> My sister-in-law, brother, my children, and myself were full of

> anxiety before I stepped foot on the plane. So I set a clear

boundry

> that this behavior was not acceptable and I made the mistake of

> asking her to behave. (This is before I read Eggshells and learned

> about I statements)

>

> After I asked her to behave she went into attack mode. She

followed

> each of the countermove tactics.

>

> THE SPIN: She told me I was the worse daughter anyone could have.

>

> LABELING: She told me I was a " real peice of work. "

>

> PATHOLOGIZING: I caused so much hurt in the past but this was the

> ultimate hurt.

>

> ENLISTING ALLIES:She sent my e-mails to her friend who suggested

> that daughters should never act this way and I was the most

> disrespectful daughter she has ever heard of.

>

> Since the e-mail below we have not had verbal contact. For mothers

> day and her birthday I sent a gift of which she refused and it was

> returned by the post office. For my birthday she sent a used

> backpack, unwrapped with a card from my step father (her

> handwriting), not her. I also recieved an e-card from step father.

I

> tried to reply and attempted to write a thank you and my e-mail

was

> returned as a demon mailer. My step father has no idea he sent a

> gift or e-mail.

>

> Please read the attached email and let me know what you think.

>

>

>

> " I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it is

> true, I failed as a Mother.I am so sorry.I thought I was doing all

> the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

> things. I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

> had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too. In

teaching

> you, my example was not good enough, I know that. I know you both

> love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You felt

> you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them. I

> don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and looking

back

> is too hard any more. God must have wanted me to take this hard

look

> and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

> gives us and I have always known that. I guess I was

> just too concerned with " me " to have been successful. With this

> Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

> failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not injured

> you too badly. I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger

and

> that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well

done " .

> I love you both and I am so sorry.

> Mom "

>

>

>

>

>

> Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered

via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go

to:

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

WOW!! Great insight and thank you, thank you, thank you.I do not

feel so alone knowing that all of you are here and understand.

lleigh

> Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-mail?

>

> I appreciated this support group's insight and guidance. Below is

> the last contact I have had with nada since since the trip to

> Phoenix to see her. The e-mail she sent is attached to the end of

> this posting.

>

> To summarize the trip:

> I took my children to Phoenix(we live in the northwest) because

she

> begged to see her grandchildren and she acted out before I

> arrived.It was a huge emotional roller coaster and she was on the

> attack! She accused me of keeping the grandkids from her and that

I

> was the worst daughter that anyone could have.I felt I was in a no-

> win situation and the rules kept changing with every attempt to do

> right in her eyes.

>

> She also had called my sister-in-law who lives in Phoenix yelled

at

> her because she got baseball tickets for the boys and I and hung

up

> the phone on her. Later she lied that my sister-in-law yelled and

> her and that is why she hung up on her.

>

> My sister-in-law, brother, my children, and myself were full of

> anxiety before I stepped foot on the plane. So I set a clear

boundry

> that this behavior was not acceptable and I made the mistake of

> asking her to behave. (This is before I read Eggshells and learned

> about I statements)

>

> After I asked her to behave she went into attack mode. She

followed

> each of the countermove tactics.

>

> THE SPIN: She told me I was the worse daughter anyone could have.

>

> LABELING: She told me I was a " real peice of work. "

>

> PATHOLOGIZING: I caused so much hurt in the past but this was the

> ultimate hurt.

>

> ENLISTING ALLIES:She sent my e-mails to her friend who suggested

> that daughters should never act this way and I was the most

> disrespectful daughter she has ever heard of.

>

> Since the e-mail below we have not had verbal contact. For mothers

> day and her birthday I sent a gift of which she refused and it was

> returned by the post office. For my birthday she sent a used

> backpack, unwrapped with a card from my step father (her

> handwriting), not her. I also recieved an e-card from step father.

I

> tried to reply and attempted to write a thank you and my e-mail

was

> returned as a demon mailer. My step father has no idea he sent a

> gift or e-mail.

>

> Please read the attached email and let me know what you think.

>

>

>

> " I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it is

> true, I failed as a Mother.I am so sorry.I thought I was doing all

> the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

> things. I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

> had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too. In

teaching

> you, my example was not good enough, I know that. I know you both

> love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You felt

> you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them. I

> don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and looking

back

> is too hard any more. God must have wanted me to take this hard

look

> and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

> gives us and I have always known that. I guess I was

> just too concerned with " me " to have been successful. With this

> Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

> failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not injured

> you too badly. I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger

and

> that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well

done " .

> I love you both and I am so sorry.

> Mom "

>

>

>

>

>

> Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered

via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go

to:

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Incredible insight! Your words really have empowered me!!

lleigh

> > Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-

mail?

>

> <<putting on Nada-decoder ring>>

>

> > I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it is

> > true, I failed as a Mother.

>

> So she is " sorry " , but the tragedy is hers, not yours.

>

> > I am so sorry. I thought I was doing all

> > the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

> > things.

>

> Woe is her. Everything she did is wrong. Sounds like the

grandiose

> BP ego is working itself out here by being the most spectacular

> failure, and if you'll notice it's still all about her.

>

> > I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

> > had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too.

>

> So you are a " lost soul " , eh? I guess the implication being that

if

> you had faith in God, you would not view your Nada as

a " failure " .

> Does she seriously think that if you " got religion " you'd suddenly

> have no problems with her behaviour? Is she putting herself up

for

> sainthood now, or what? There's a distinct " martyred " tone to the

> whole thing, I think.

>

> > In teaching

> > you, my example was not good enough, I know that.

>

> Still with the " Oh poor me, how tragic that I wasn't good

enough. "

> But she's still keeping all the tragedy for herself, isn't she?

>

> > I know you both

> > love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You

felt

> > you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them.

>

> This looks on the surface like a concession to some degree ( " maybe

I

> needed them " ). But the previous sentence negates it. To me this

> translates to " You expected me to be a bad mother, and it's your

lack

> of faith that caused me to fail. "

>

> > I don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and

> > looking back is too hard any more.

>

> Ooooooo, nasty. So now she's too " tired " to take any

responsiblity

> for anything that happened in the past. She's giving herself

> permission to label you a cruel monster if you hold her

accountable

> for ANYTHING.

>

> > God must have wanted me to take this hard look

> > and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

> > gives us and I have always known that.

>

> So God planned all your childhood suffering so that Nada could

have

> this moment of alleged personal growth? Puh-leeeeeeze.

>

> > I guess I was

> > just too concerned with " me " to have been successful.

>

> Well, that's true! And it's STILL all about her isn't it?

>

> > With this

> > Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

> > failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not

injured

> > you too badly.

>

> Now if a really loving mother learned that she had injured her

> children, she wouldn't just be going on about how sorry she was.

> She'd be all about THEM: " Tell me where it hurts and how can I fix

> it? " I hear none of that. What she's telling you is that EVEN IF

> SHE DID INJURE YOU, YOUR RECOVERY IS YOUR PROBLEM! She's

too " humble

> and tired " to help heal any of the hurt she caused. One of my

Nada's

> favourite refrains along this line was " you can't hold anything

> against me because I always did the best I could " . She used that

> with considerable success to defect all responsiblity for her

actions.

>

> > I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger and

> > that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well

done " .

>

> Here we go with the martyr thing again. So she prays that you

will

> be less miserable than she is when you get to her age. The

> implications being that (a) nobody is more miserable than her and

(

> if you are less miserable than she is at her age, she will deserve

> credit for that because she prayed for you. There's also a hint

> of " If you are happy, it won't be because you deserve it! "

>

> > I love you both and I am so sorry.

>

> I completely agree with Sylvia that this is " all about her " , but I

> couldn't find the one sentence she said wasn't!

>

> Now my inner Editor wants to point something out: There are 15

> sentences in this email and the subject of 12 of them is " I " ! 2

of

> the other 3 are all about her, and the only one where " you " is the

> subject, she's talking about how badly you treated HER.

> (Grammatically, this shows a pretty pathological degree of self-

> absorption!)

>

> There is ZERO awareness of your experience, your feelings, your

pain,

> let alone taking responsiblity for her actions causing them!

>

> If I had to sum it up I'd say it means: " I am such a miserable

> failure and am suffering so much, that you MUST feel sorry for

me. "

> Notice she doesn't ask for forgiveness, she EXPECTS absolution.

> In " BP logic " , her extreme self-pity entitles her to absolution

for

> anything she might have done. A real mother would only think

about

> herself enough to beg your forgiveness AFTER she'd done everything

> she could to help you heal.

>

> I think one of the hardest things for us KOs to wrap our heads

around

> is that to our Nadas/Fadas, other people are just not real; they

are

> objects with no thoughts and feelings other than what Nada/Fada

> projects onto them.

>

> I had to go through a brutal grieving process to let go of the

hope

> that somehow I could somehow " get through " to my Nada and she'd

> really SEE me. The grief still revisits me even though my Nada's

> been dead for 6 years now, but it does get easier.

>

> One of the hardest lessons for me was that it's crucial not to

> interpret Nada-speak from the nonBP perspective, where other

people

> ARE real and DO matter...you'll get hoovered for sure!

>

> Hugs,

>

[Guest guest]

Incredible insight! Your words really have empowered me!!

lleigh

> > Can you help me interpret the meaning or intent behind the e-

mail?

>

> <<putting on Nada-decoder ring>>

>

> > I have thought and thought about what happened and I guess it is

> > true, I failed as a Mother.

>

> So she is " sorry " , but the tragedy is hers, not yours.

>

> > I am so sorry. I thought I was doing all

> > the right things at the time but I see now, I did all the wrong

> > things.

>

> Woe is her. Everything she did is wrong. Sounds like the

grandiose

> BP ego is working itself out here by being the most spectacular

> failure, and if you'll notice it's still all about her.

>

> > I wanted to give you the faith in God that my parents

> > had and that I wanted but I guess I failed at that too.

>

> So you are a " lost soul " , eh? I guess the implication being that

if

> you had faith in God, you would not view your Nada as

a " failure " .

> Does she seriously think that if you " got religion " you'd suddenly

> have no problems with her behaviour? Is she putting herself up

for

> sainthood now, or what? There's a distinct " martyred " tone to the

> whole thing, I think.

>

> > In teaching

> > you, my example was not good enough, I know that.

>

> Still with the " Oh poor me, how tragic that I wasn't good

enough. "

> But she's still keeping all the tragedy for herself, isn't she?

>

> > I know you both

> > love me but from my past, you expected the worst from me. You

felt

> > you had to give me rules of behavior and maybe I needed them.

>

> This looks on the surface like a concession to some degree ( " maybe

I

> needed them " ). But the previous sentence negates it. To me this

> translates to " You expected me to be a bad mother, and it's your

lack

> of faith that caused me to fail. "

>

> > I don't know, I only know that I am humbled and tired and

> > looking back is too hard any more.

>

> Ooooooo, nasty. So now she's too " tired " to take any

responsiblity

> for anything that happened in the past. She's giving herself

> permission to label you a cruel monster if you hold her

accountable

> for ANYTHING.

>

> > God must have wanted me to take this hard look

> > and I acknowledge it. Raising kids is the most important job he

> > gives us and I have always known that.

>

> So God planned all your childhood suffering so that Nada could

have

> this moment of alleged personal growth? Puh-leeeeeeze.

>

> > I guess I was

> > just too concerned with " me " to have been successful.

>

> Well, that's true! And it's STILL all about her isn't it?

>

> > With this

> > Mother's day about here, I have looked at myself and found me

> > failing. I love you both so much and pray that I have not

injured

> > you too badly.

>

> Now if a really loving mother learned that she had injured her

> children, she wouldn't just be going on about how sorry she was.

> She'd be all about THEM: " Tell me where it hurts and how can I fix

> it? " I hear none of that. What she's telling you is that EVEN IF

> SHE DID INJURE YOU, YOUR RECOVERY IS YOUR PROBLEM! She's

too " humble

> and tired " to help heal any of the hurt she caused. One of my

Nada's

> favourite refrains along this line was " you can't hold anything

> against me because I always did the best I could " . She used that

> with considerable success to defect all responsiblity for her

actions.

>

> > I pray that your faith in God will grow stronger and

> > that when you reach my age, you will know that God says " well

done " .

>

> Here we go with the martyr thing again. So she prays that you

will

> be less miserable than she is when you get to her age. The

> implications being that (a) nobody is more miserable than her and

(

> if you are less miserable than she is at her age, she will deserve

> credit for that because she prayed for you. There's also a hint

> of " If you are happy, it won't be because you deserve it! "

>

> > I love you both and I am so sorry.

>

> I completely agree with Sylvia that this is " all about her " , but I

> couldn't find the one sentence she said wasn't!

>

> Now my inner Editor wants to point something out: There are 15

> sentences in this email and the subject of 12 of them is " I " ! 2

of

> the other 3 are all about her, and the only one where " you " is the

> subject, she's talking about how badly you treated HER.

> (Grammatically, this shows a pretty pathological degree of self-

> absorption!)

>

> There is ZERO awareness of your experience, your feelings, your

pain,

> let alone taking responsiblity for her actions causing them!

>

> If I had to sum it up I'd say it means: " I am such a miserable

> failure and am suffering so much, that you MUST feel sorry for

me. "

> Notice she doesn't ask for forgiveness, she EXPECTS absolution.

> In " BP logic " , her extreme self-pity entitles her to absolution

for

> anything she might have done. A real mother would only think

about

> herself enough to beg your forgiveness AFTER she'd done everything

> she could to help you heal.

>

> I think one of the hardest things for us KOs to wrap our heads

around

> is that to our Nadas/Fadas, other people are just not real; they

are

> objects with no thoughts and feelings other than what Nada/Fada

> projects onto them.

>

> I had to go through a brutal grieving process to let go of the

hope

> that somehow I could somehow " get through " to my Nada and she'd

> really SEE me. The grief still revisits me even though my Nada's

> been dead for 6 years now, but it does get easier.

>

> One of the hardest lessons for me was that it's crucial not to

> interpret Nada-speak from the nonBP perspective, where other

people

> ARE real and DO matter...you'll get hoovered for sure!

>

> Hugs,

>