Re: RE:Cure/Recovery mentality can be dangerous

[Guest guest]

The hyperbole being thrown around on this thread is really getting out of

hand. Words like murder (from a previous post) and torture (below) are at

best infamatory. And painting everyone who seeks to " cure " autism as

misguided and dangerous is absurd. Of course, just like in every other human

endeavor, there are those who abuse and misuse positions of power and

influence, but it is also clear that, but for the fact that so many people

have been driven over the years to search for help, answers, cures, call it

what you will, we would still be living in a world where people who were not

NT were either locked up in a soft room or worse eyt left to fend for

themselves. All the interventions and assitance we now have at our

disposal - of which I suspect most of us have employed at least one that has

been a benefit - are thanks to those who were unwilling to accept autism as

something that is an imutable " way of being " and did not see the quest for a

cure as something that denied the essential being of those within the

spectrum, but something that would hopefully help them achieve their best

and improve there ability to cope in the world we live in (yes that's

right - a world run by money grubbing NT's with bully complexes).

I don't post often, but in the month or 2 I have been on this list, I have

got some very helpful info and made some good connections. The main reason I

joined was more from an insight to treatments point of view than a social

one (although I can tell it does a lot for many of you on that front, which

is great). But whatever each of us is here for, I doubt anyone is seeing the

benefit of the diatribes being exchanged on this debate. I realize by

posting this I have probably further fed the fire, but what do you say we

get back to discussing how are kids are doing and what each of us is

learning as we work to help them take on an NT world that is easy for no one

and even harder for them.

Ian - dad of Keira. 3 1/2 and doing great, but struggling to fit in to a

world that isn't set up for the likes of her.

Re: Cure?

This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes a

day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar has

had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good changes

in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication. I

am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps me

to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big difference.

And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it. I

would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But this

is only my opinion.

(Sky)>>

I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want anyone

else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

Offensive?

Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

_______________________________________________________________

Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

http://www.mail2world.com

[Guest guest]

The hyperbole being thrown around on this thread is really getting out of

hand. Words like murder (from a previous post) and torture (below) are at

best infamatory. And painting everyone who seeks to " cure " autism as

misguided and dangerous is absurd. Of course, just like in every other human

endeavor, there are those who abuse and misuse positions of power and

influence, but it is also clear that, but for the fact that so many people

have been driven over the years to search for help, answers, cures, call it

what you will, we would still be living in a world where people who were not

NT were either locked up in a soft room or worse eyt left to fend for

themselves. All the interventions and assitance we now have at our

disposal - of which I suspect most of us have employed at least one that has

been a benefit - are thanks to those who were unwilling to accept autism as

something that is an imutable " way of being " and did not see the quest for a

cure as something that denied the essential being of those within the

spectrum, but something that would hopefully help them achieve their best

and improve there ability to cope in the world we live in (yes that's

right - a world run by money grubbing NT's with bully complexes).

I don't post often, but in the month or 2 I have been on this list, I have

got some very helpful info and made some good connections. The main reason I

joined was more from an insight to treatments point of view than a social

one (although I can tell it does a lot for many of you on that front, which

is great). But whatever each of us is here for, I doubt anyone is seeing the

benefit of the diatribes being exchanged on this debate. I realize by

posting this I have probably further fed the fire, but what do you say we

get back to discussing how are kids are doing and what each of us is

learning as we work to help them take on an NT world that is easy for no one

and even harder for them.

Ian - dad of Keira. 3 1/2 and doing great, but struggling to fit in to a

world that isn't set up for the likes of her.

Re: Cure?

This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes a

day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar has

had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good changes

in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication. I

am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps me

to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big difference.

And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it. I

would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But this

is only my opinion.

(Sky)>>

I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want anyone

else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

Offensive?

Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

_______________________________________________________________

Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

http://www.mail2world.com

[Guest guest]

The hyperbole being thrown around on this thread is really getting out of

hand. Words like murder (from a previous post) and torture (below) are at

best infamatory. And painting everyone who seeks to " cure " autism as

misguided and dangerous is absurd. Of course, just like in every other human

endeavor, there are those who abuse and misuse positions of power and

influence, but it is also clear that, but for the fact that so many people

have been driven over the years to search for help, answers, cures, call it

what you will, we would still be living in a world where people who were not

NT were either locked up in a soft room or worse eyt left to fend for

themselves. All the interventions and assitance we now have at our

disposal - of which I suspect most of us have employed at least one that has

been a benefit - are thanks to those who were unwilling to accept autism as

something that is an imutable " way of being " and did not see the quest for a

cure as something that denied the essential being of those within the

spectrum, but something that would hopefully help them achieve their best

and improve there ability to cope in the world we live in (yes that's

right - a world run by money grubbing NT's with bully complexes).

I don't post often, but in the month or 2 I have been on this list, I have

got some very helpful info and made some good connections. The main reason I

joined was more from an insight to treatments point of view than a social

one (although I can tell it does a lot for many of you on that front, which

is great). But whatever each of us is here for, I doubt anyone is seeing the

benefit of the diatribes being exchanged on this debate. I realize by

posting this I have probably further fed the fire, but what do you say we

get back to discussing how are kids are doing and what each of us is

learning as we work to help them take on an NT world that is easy for no one

and even harder for them.

Ian - dad of Keira. 3 1/2 and doing great, but struggling to fit in to a

world that isn't set up for the likes of her.

Re: Cure?

This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes a

day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar has

had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good changes

in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication. I

am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps me

to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big difference.

And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it. I

would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But this

is only my opinion.

(Sky)>>

I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want anyone

else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

Offensive?

Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

_______________________________________________________________

Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

http://www.mail2world.com

[Guest guest]

I can only pray that someday my daughter is able to SPEAK let alone log

onto a computer to bash NTs. It's very easy to do when you are able to

communicate. My daughter cannot even shake her head yes or no,

point to what she wants, use simple signs, or ANY form of

communication. You can only speak for yourself. Do not try to speak

for my daughter or anyone else who is autistic. I am here, as I'm sure

may other parents and caretakers are, to get support and encouragement

to help us help our girls with autism. " Help " is going to mean

different things to different people. You want to come here and post

" Hooray, I'm autistic! Celebrate me! " Good for you. I can guarantee

there are a lot of us who don't feel much like celebrating. I feel

blessed just to make it through each and every day. I am very happy

for those who are autistic and are happy with their life. I can only

hope for the same thing for someday, but right now she is

miserable and in pain, and I'm going to do whatever it takes to help

her. It doesn't make me " anti-autism " it makes me PRO-ERIN!

On Thursday, April 10, 2003, at 01:51 PM, Janette Vance wrote:

> Kassiane, you're right as usual. We need a cure for NT. Perhaps those

> still

> hoping for a cure have been listening too much to the " experts " and not

> enough to autistics themselves. Too much Maurice ( " a life

> without

> a soul... " boo hoo hoo!) and not enough http://www.autistics.org/.

> Another

> good site is the " Institute for the Study of the Neurologically

> Typical "

> (http://isnt.autistics.org/).

>

> Autism is not a " thing " a person " has. " It is not a disease, a defect,

> a

> disorder, or a shell surrounding your child, preventing your " real "

> child

> from emerging. Sensory processing difficulties can sometimes be

> alleviated

> or accomodated (and no, they are not behavioral). Yeast problems can be

> treated. Food intolerances can be avoided. These are some of the more

> annoying things that are more prevalent among autistics than NTs. You

> can

> treat them, but they have nothing to do with being autistic. Autism is

> a way

> of being. You cannot cure " it " with enzymes, drugs, special diets or by

> repeatedly plunking a child into a chair (for reasons unknown to the

> child)

> and commanding the child to " LOOK AT ME! "

>

> The idea that autism is something that ought to be cured or " recovered

> from "

> can also lead to some very unfortunate consequences. Here in NJ we're

> having

> a real hard time getting legislation passed that would outlaw the use

> of

> restraints and aversives as " treatment. " We have some extremely wealthy

> corporations here, full of " experts, " who sell the more antiquated

> types of

> ABA/DTT based " intervention " programs for exhorbitant sums of money.

> You

> remember ABA right? The " recovery " people? You can read about them at

> CIBRA

> http://users.1st.net/cibra/. Check out the " Academic Seminar " section

> to

> find a review of " Autism Through the Lifespan: The Eden Model " and see

> what

> kinds of " behavior deceleration procedures " (that's

> behavioral-pseudo-science-speak for torture) are inflicted on NJ's

> autistic

> population (at over $50,000 a pop) in order that they may more closely

> resemble NTs. Why? Because that's what the buying public asks for. The

> kinds

> of things that Sondra described from the 80s are absolutely still

> going on

> today, and not just in NJ.

>

> Our local ABA corporations can afford and have hired professional

> lobbying

> firms to safeguard their right to " train " autistic individuals by

> spraying

> water in their faces, withholding food, forcing them to inhale ammonia

> capsules, and worse. Things that parents, and even pet owners, get

> arrested

> for. They like to call it " the right to effective treatment " and they

> have

> made fortunes from people who subscribe to the belief that

> " recovering " a

> person from autism is accomplished by forcing an autistic person to

> look and

> act like an NT - whatever it takes. Goodman and le

> Gruskowski

> (NJ's most recent restraint deaths) must have achieved this remarkable

> feat.

> I'm sure they appeared " indistinguishable from their peers " - as they

> were

> lying in their caskets.

>

> Janette (defective enough to be just as peeved as Kassiane)

> The Family Alliance to Stop Abuse and Neglect

> http://www.visionpoint.org/actionalert.htm

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar

> has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication.

> I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps

> me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big

> difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it.

> I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want

> anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I can only pray that someday my daughter is able to SPEAK let alone log

onto a computer to bash NTs. It's very easy to do when you are able to

communicate. My daughter cannot even shake her head yes or no,

point to what she wants, use simple signs, or ANY form of

communication. You can only speak for yourself. Do not try to speak

for my daughter or anyone else who is autistic. I am here, as I'm sure

may other parents and caretakers are, to get support and encouragement

to help us help our girls with autism. " Help " is going to mean

different things to different people. You want to come here and post

" Hooray, I'm autistic! Celebrate me! " Good for you. I can guarantee

there are a lot of us who don't feel much like celebrating. I feel

blessed just to make it through each and every day. I am very happy

for those who are autistic and are happy with their life. I can only

hope for the same thing for someday, but right now she is

miserable and in pain, and I'm going to do whatever it takes to help

her. It doesn't make me " anti-autism " it makes me PRO-ERIN!

On Thursday, April 10, 2003, at 01:51 PM, Janette Vance wrote:

> Kassiane, you're right as usual. We need a cure for NT. Perhaps those

> still

> hoping for a cure have been listening too much to the " experts " and not

> enough to autistics themselves. Too much Maurice ( " a life

> without

> a soul... " boo hoo hoo!) and not enough http://www.autistics.org/.

> Another

> good site is the " Institute for the Study of the Neurologically

> Typical "

> (http://isnt.autistics.org/).

>

> Autism is not a " thing " a person " has. " It is not a disease, a defect,

> a

> disorder, or a shell surrounding your child, preventing your " real "

> child

> from emerging. Sensory processing difficulties can sometimes be

> alleviated

> or accomodated (and no, they are not behavioral). Yeast problems can be

> treated. Food intolerances can be avoided. These are some of the more

> annoying things that are more prevalent among autistics than NTs. You

> can

> treat them, but they have nothing to do with being autistic. Autism is

> a way

> of being. You cannot cure " it " with enzymes, drugs, special diets or by

> repeatedly plunking a child into a chair (for reasons unknown to the

> child)

> and commanding the child to " LOOK AT ME! "

>

> The idea that autism is something that ought to be cured or " recovered

> from "

> can also lead to some very unfortunate consequences. Here in NJ we're

> having

> a real hard time getting legislation passed that would outlaw the use

> of

> restraints and aversives as " treatment. " We have some extremely wealthy

> corporations here, full of " experts, " who sell the more antiquated

> types of

> ABA/DTT based " intervention " programs for exhorbitant sums of money.

> You

> remember ABA right? The " recovery " people? You can read about them at

> CIBRA

> http://users.1st.net/cibra/. Check out the " Academic Seminar " section

> to

> find a review of " Autism Through the Lifespan: The Eden Model " and see

> what

> kinds of " behavior deceleration procedures " (that's

> behavioral-pseudo-science-speak for torture) are inflicted on NJ's

> autistic

> population (at over $50,000 a pop) in order that they may more closely

> resemble NTs. Why? Because that's what the buying public asks for. The

> kinds

> of things that Sondra described from the 80s are absolutely still

> going on

> today, and not just in NJ.

>

> Our local ABA corporations can afford and have hired professional

> lobbying

> firms to safeguard their right to " train " autistic individuals by

> spraying

> water in their faces, withholding food, forcing them to inhale ammonia

> capsules, and worse. Things that parents, and even pet owners, get

> arrested

> for. They like to call it " the right to effective treatment " and they

> have

> made fortunes from people who subscribe to the belief that

> " recovering " a

> person from autism is accomplished by forcing an autistic person to

> look and

> act like an NT - whatever it takes. Goodman and le

> Gruskowski

> (NJ's most recent restraint deaths) must have achieved this remarkable

> feat.

> I'm sure they appeared " indistinguishable from their peers " - as they

> were

> lying in their caskets.

>

> Janette (defective enough to be just as peeved as Kassiane)

> The Family Alliance to Stop Abuse and Neglect

> http://www.visionpoint.org/actionalert.htm

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar

> has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication.

> I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps

> me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big

> difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it.

> I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want

> anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I can only pray that someday my daughter is able to SPEAK let alone log

onto a computer to bash NTs. It's very easy to do when you are able to

communicate. My daughter cannot even shake her head yes or no,

point to what she wants, use simple signs, or ANY form of

communication. You can only speak for yourself. Do not try to speak

for my daughter or anyone else who is autistic. I am here, as I'm sure

may other parents and caretakers are, to get support and encouragement

to help us help our girls with autism. " Help " is going to mean

different things to different people. You want to come here and post

" Hooray, I'm autistic! Celebrate me! " Good for you. I can guarantee

there are a lot of us who don't feel much like celebrating. I feel

blessed just to make it through each and every day. I am very happy

for those who are autistic and are happy with their life. I can only

hope for the same thing for someday, but right now she is

miserable and in pain, and I'm going to do whatever it takes to help

her. It doesn't make me " anti-autism " it makes me PRO-ERIN!

On Thursday, April 10, 2003, at 01:51 PM, Janette Vance wrote:

> Kassiane, you're right as usual. We need a cure for NT. Perhaps those

> still

> hoping for a cure have been listening too much to the " experts " and not

> enough to autistics themselves. Too much Maurice ( " a life

> without

> a soul... " boo hoo hoo!) and not enough http://www.autistics.org/.

> Another

> good site is the " Institute for the Study of the Neurologically

> Typical "

> (http://isnt.autistics.org/).

>

> Autism is not a " thing " a person " has. " It is not a disease, a defect,

> a

> disorder, or a shell surrounding your child, preventing your " real "

> child

> from emerging. Sensory processing difficulties can sometimes be

> alleviated

> or accomodated (and no, they are not behavioral). Yeast problems can be

> treated. Food intolerances can be avoided. These are some of the more

> annoying things that are more prevalent among autistics than NTs. You

> can

> treat them, but they have nothing to do with being autistic. Autism is

> a way

> of being. You cannot cure " it " with enzymes, drugs, special diets or by

> repeatedly plunking a child into a chair (for reasons unknown to the

> child)

> and commanding the child to " LOOK AT ME! "

>

> The idea that autism is something that ought to be cured or " recovered

> from "

> can also lead to some very unfortunate consequences. Here in NJ we're

> having

> a real hard time getting legislation passed that would outlaw the use

> of

> restraints and aversives as " treatment. " We have some extremely wealthy

> corporations here, full of " experts, " who sell the more antiquated

> types of

> ABA/DTT based " intervention " programs for exhorbitant sums of money.

> You

> remember ABA right? The " recovery " people? You can read about them at

> CIBRA

> http://users.1st.net/cibra/. Check out the " Academic Seminar " section

> to

> find a review of " Autism Through the Lifespan: The Eden Model " and see

> what

> kinds of " behavior deceleration procedures " (that's

> behavioral-pseudo-science-speak for torture) are inflicted on NJ's

> autistic

> population (at over $50,000 a pop) in order that they may more closely

> resemble NTs. Why? Because that's what the buying public asks for. The

> kinds

> of things that Sondra described from the 80s are absolutely still

> going on

> today, and not just in NJ.

>

> Our local ABA corporations can afford and have hired professional

> lobbying

> firms to safeguard their right to " train " autistic individuals by

> spraying

> water in their faces, withholding food, forcing them to inhale ammonia

> capsules, and worse. Things that parents, and even pet owners, get

> arrested

> for. They like to call it " the right to effective treatment " and they

> have

> made fortunes from people who subscribe to the belief that

> " recovering " a

> person from autism is accomplished by forcing an autistic person to

> look and

> act like an NT - whatever it takes. Goodman and le

> Gruskowski

> (NJ's most recent restraint deaths) must have achieved this remarkable

> feat.

> I'm sure they appeared " indistinguishable from their peers " - as they

> were

> lying in their caskets.

>

> Janette (defective enough to be just as peeved as Kassiane)

> The Family Alliance to Stop Abuse and Neglect

> http://www.visionpoint.org/actionalert.htm

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar

> has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication.

> I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps

> me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big

> difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it.

> I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want

> anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't post often either, but I have to say, that was extremely well

written, and

I agree with you 100% :-)

Diane M

Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication. I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it. I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't post often either, but I have to say, that was extremely well

written, and

I agree with you 100% :-)

Diane M

Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication. I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it. I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't post often either, but I have to say, that was extremely well

written, and

I agree with you 100% :-)

Diane M

Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication. I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it. I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

---

So well said....you know I think just as no one who is NT can

imagine what its like to have autism..only a parent of a child with

autism can know what its like to have that experience.

You sound like an amazing father..thanks for posting.

In Autism_in_Girls , " Ian Menzies " <ian@h...> wrote:

> The hyperbole being thrown around on this thread is really getting

out of

> hand. Words like murder (from a previous post) and torture (below)

are at

> best infamatory. And painting everyone who seeks to " cure " autism

as

> misguided and dangerous is absurd. Of course, just like in every

other human

> endeavor, there are those who abuse and misuse positions of power

and

> influence, but it is also clear that, but for the fact that so

many people

> have been driven over the years to search for help, answers,

cures, call it

> what you will, we would still be living in a world where people

who were not

> NT were either locked up in a soft room or worse eyt left to fend

for

> themselves. All the interventions and assitance we now have at our

> disposal - of which I suspect most of us have employed at least

one that has

> been a benefit - are thanks to those who were unwilling to accept

autism as

> something that is an imutable " way of being " and did not see the

quest for a

> cure as something that denied the essential being of those within

the

> spectrum, but something that would hopefully help them achieve

their best

> and improve there ability to cope in the world we live in (yes

that's

> right - a world run by money grubbing NT's with bully complexes).

>

> I don't post often, but in the month or 2 I have been on this

list, I have

> got some very helpful info and made some good connections. The

main reason I

> joined was more from an insight to treatments point of view than a

social

> one (although I can tell it does a lot for many of you on that

front, which

> is great). But whatever each of us is here for, I doubt anyone is

seeing the

> benefit of the diatribes being exchanged on this debate. I realize

by

> posting this I have probably further fed the fire, but what do you

say we

> get back to discussing how are kids are doing and what each of us

is

> learning as we work to help them take on an NT world that is easy

for no one

> and even harder for them.

>

> Ian - dad of Keira. 3 1/2 and doing great, but struggling to fit

in to a

> world that isn't set up for the likes of her.

>

> Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe

that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there

comes a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good

start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My

Skylar has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good

changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you

grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to

function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and

medication. I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it

helps me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will

ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big

difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will

do it. I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder.

But this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont

want anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

---

So well said....you know I think just as no one who is NT can

imagine what its like to have autism..only a parent of a child with

autism can know what its like to have that experience.

You sound like an amazing father..thanks for posting.

In Autism_in_Girls , " Ian Menzies " <ian@h...> wrote:

> The hyperbole being thrown around on this thread is really getting

out of

> hand. Words like murder (from a previous post) and torture (below)

are at

> best infamatory. And painting everyone who seeks to " cure " autism

as

> misguided and dangerous is absurd. Of course, just like in every

other human

> endeavor, there are those who abuse and misuse positions of power

and

> influence, but it is also clear that, but for the fact that so

many people

> have been driven over the years to search for help, answers,

cures, call it

> what you will, we would still be living in a world where people

who were not

> NT were either locked up in a soft room or worse eyt left to fend

for

> themselves. All the interventions and assitance we now have at our

> disposal - of which I suspect most of us have employed at least

one that has

> been a benefit - are thanks to those who were unwilling to accept

autism as

> something that is an imutable " way of being " and did not see the

quest for a

> cure as something that denied the essential being of those within

the

> spectrum, but something that would hopefully help them achieve

their best

> and improve there ability to cope in the world we live in (yes

that's

> right - a world run by money grubbing NT's with bully complexes).

>

> I don't post often, but in the month or 2 I have been on this

list, I have

> got some very helpful info and made some good connections. The

main reason I

> joined was more from an insight to treatments point of view than a

social

> one (although I can tell it does a lot for many of you on that

front, which

> is great). But whatever each of us is here for, I doubt anyone is

seeing the

> benefit of the diatribes being exchanged on this debate. I realize

by

> posting this I have probably further fed the fire, but what do you

say we

> get back to discussing how are kids are doing and what each of us

is

> learning as we work to help them take on an NT world that is easy

for no one

> and even harder for them.

>

> Ian - dad of Keira. 3 1/2 and doing great, but struggling to fit

in to a

> world that isn't set up for the likes of her.

>

> Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe

that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there

comes a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good

start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My

Skylar has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good

changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you

grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to

function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and

medication. I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it

helps me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will

ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big

difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will

do it. I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder.

But this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont

want anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

---

So well said....you know I think just as no one who is NT can

imagine what its like to have autism..only a parent of a child with

autism can know what its like to have that experience.

You sound like an amazing father..thanks for posting.

In Autism_in_Girls , " Ian Menzies " <ian@h...> wrote:

> The hyperbole being thrown around on this thread is really getting

out of

> hand. Words like murder (from a previous post) and torture (below)

are at

> best infamatory. And painting everyone who seeks to " cure " autism

as

> misguided and dangerous is absurd. Of course, just like in every

other human

> endeavor, there are those who abuse and misuse positions of power

and

> influence, but it is also clear that, but for the fact that so

many people

> have been driven over the years to search for help, answers,

cures, call it

> what you will, we would still be living in a world where people

who were not

> NT were either locked up in a soft room or worse eyt left to fend

for

> themselves. All the interventions and assitance we now have at our

> disposal - of which I suspect most of us have employed at least

one that has

> been a benefit - are thanks to those who were unwilling to accept

autism as

> something that is an imutable " way of being " and did not see the

quest for a

> cure as something that denied the essential being of those within

the

> spectrum, but something that would hopefully help them achieve

their best

> and improve there ability to cope in the world we live in (yes

that's

> right - a world run by money grubbing NT's with bully complexes).

>

> I don't post often, but in the month or 2 I have been on this

list, I have

> got some very helpful info and made some good connections. The

main reason I

> joined was more from an insight to treatments point of view than a

social

> one (although I can tell it does a lot for many of you on that

front, which

> is great). But whatever each of us is here for, I doubt anyone is

seeing the

> benefit of the diatribes being exchanged on this debate. I realize

by

> posting this I have probably further fed the fire, but what do you

say we

> get back to discussing how are kids are doing and what each of us

is

> learning as we work to help them take on an NT world that is easy

for no one

> and even harder for them.

>

> Ian - dad of Keira. 3 1/2 and doing great, but struggling to fit

in to a

> world that isn't set up for the likes of her.

>

> Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe

that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there

comes a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good

start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My

Skylar has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good

changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you

grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to

function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and

medication. I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it

helps me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will

ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big

difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will

do it. I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder.

But this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont

want anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I also agree with everything you wrote. I want to know that my daughter will be

OK on her own after I am gone from this earth.

P.

Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication. I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it. I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I also agree with everything you wrote. I want to know that my daughter will be

OK on her own after I am gone from this earth.

P.

Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication. I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it. I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I also agree with everything you wrote. I want to know that my daughter will be

OK on her own after I am gone from this earth.

P.

Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication. I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it. I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Diane and Swtapplemom. I just got back from dinner to your warm

responses. I'm off to surf for more info on phenols......

Re: RE:Cure/Recovery mentality can be dangerous

I don't post often either, but I have to say, that was extremely well

written, and

I agree with you 100% :-)

Diane M

Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes

a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar

has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good

changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication.

I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps

me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big

difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it.

I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But

this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want

anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Diane and Swtapplemom. I just got back from dinner to your warm

responses. I'm off to surf for more info on phenols......

Re: RE:Cure/Recovery mentality can be dangerous

I don't post often either, but I have to say, that was extremely well

written, and

I agree with you 100% :-)

Diane M

Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes

a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar

has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good

changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication.

I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps

me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big

difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it.

I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But

this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want

anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Diane and Swtapplemom. I just got back from dinner to your warm

responses. I'm off to surf for more info on phenols......

Re: RE:Cure/Recovery mentality can be dangerous

I don't post often either, but I have to say, that was extremely well

written, and

I agree with you 100% :-)

Diane M

Re: Cure?

>

>

>

>

> This is just my opinion on a cure for autism. I do not believe that a

> cure is developed as of yet. I am hoping and praying that there comes

a

> day that one will be found. I do know that therapy is a good start as

> the child (or adult) learns to function better in society. My Skylar

has

> had years of therapy and yes I believe it has made alot of good

changes

> in her but according to her neurologist it isnt something you grow out

> of , it is always there but as I said before, they learn to function

> better. I am seeing alot of improvement with therapies and medication.

I

> am very proud of my daughter even if she is autistic because it helps

me

> to appreciate her every accomplishment. I don't know if she will ever

> function as well as some do but every little bit makes a big

difference.

> And if I can do anything in my power to help find a cure I will do it.

I

> would not want another person to be affected by this disorder. But

this

> is only my opinion.

> (Sky)>>

>

> I want a cure for NT. I dont care what NTs think, but I dont want

anyone

> else to be afflicted with this horrible disorder.

>

> Offensive?

>

> Kassiane the peeved at being seen as defective

>

> _______________________________________________________________

> Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

> http://www.mail2world.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kassiane, you're right as usual. We need a cure for NT. Perhaps those

still

hoping for a cure have been listening too much to the " experts " and not

enough to autistics themselves. Too much Maurice ( " a life

without

a soul... " boo hoo hoo!) and not enough http://www.autistics.org/.

Another

good site is the " Institute for the Study of the Neurologically Typical "

(http://isnt.autistics.org/).>>

ISNT is my favorite website ever. And Maurice upsets me...

The idea that autism is something that ought to be cured or " recovered

from "

can also lead to some very unfortunate consequences. Here in NJ we're

having

a real hard time getting legislation passed that would outlaw the use of

restraints and aversives as " treatment. " We have some extremely wealthy

corporations here, full of " experts, " who sell the more antiquated types

of

ABA/DTT based " intervention " programs for exhorbitant sums of money. You

remember ABA right? The " recovery " people? You can read about them at

CIBRA

http://users.1st.net/cibra/. Check out the " Academic Seminar " section to

find a review of " Autism Through the Lifespan: The Eden Model " and see

what

kinds of " behavior deceleration procedures " (that's

behavioral-pseudo-science-speak for torture) are inflicted on NJ's

autistic

population (at over $50,000 a pop) in order that they may more closely

resemble NTs. Why? Because that's what the buying public asks for. The

kinds

of things that Sondra described from the 80s are absolutely still going

on

today, and not just in NJ.>>

Theres the Judge Rottenburg center too. CIBRA gives me nightmares and

flashbacks...

Our local ABA corporations can afford and have hired professional

lobbying

firms to safeguard their right to " train " autistic individuals by

spraying

water in their faces, withholding food, forcing them to inhale ammonia

capsules, and worse. Things that parents, and even pet owners, get

arrested

for. They like to call it " the right to effective treatment " and they

have

made fortunes from people who subscribe to the belief that " recovering "

a

person from autism is accomplished by forcing an autistic person to look

and

act like an NT - whatever it takes. Goodman and le

Gruskowski

(NJ's most recent restraint deaths) must have achieved this remarkable

feat.

I'm sure they appeared " indistinguishable from their peers " - as they

were

lying in their caskets.

>>

That's really sad. A moment of prayer from me for those 2 lives who were

needlessly lost.

Janette (defective enough to be just as peeved as Kassiane)

Not defective, just different.

Kassiane

_______________________________________________________________

Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at

http://www.mail2world.com

[Guest guest]

Kassiane, you're right as usual. We need a cure for NT. Perhaps those

still

hoping for a cure have been listening too much to the " experts " and not

enough to autistics themselves. Too much Maurice ( " a life

without

a soul... " boo hoo hoo!) and not enough http://www.autistics.org/.

Another

good site is the " Institute for the Study of the Neurologically Typical "

(http://isnt.autistics.org/).>>

ISNT is my favorite website ever. And Maurice upsets me...

The idea that autism is something that ought to be cured or " recovered

from "

can also lead to some very unfortunate consequences. Here in NJ we're

having

a real hard time getting legislation passed that would outlaw the use of

restraints and aversives as " treatment. " We have some extremely wealthy

corporations here, full of " experts, " who sell the more antiquated types

of

ABA/DTT based " intervention " programs for exhorbitant sums of money. You

remember ABA right? The " recovery " people? You can read about them at

CIBRA

http://users.1st.net/cibra/. Check out the " Academic Seminar " section to

find a review of " Autism Through the Lifespan: The Eden Model " and see

what

kinds of " behavior deceleration procedures " (that's

behavioral-pseudo-science-speak for torture) are inflicted on NJ's

autistic

population (at over $50,000 a pop) in order that they may more closely

resemble NTs. Why? Because that's what the buying public asks for. The

kinds

of things that Sondra described from the 80s are absolutely still going

on

today, and not just in NJ.>>

Theres the Judge Rottenburg center too. CIBRA gives me nightmares and

flashbacks...

Our local ABA corporations can afford and have hired professional

lobbying

firms to safeguard their right to " train " autistic individuals by

spraying

water in their faces, withholding food, forcing them to inhale ammonia

capsules, and worse. Things that parents, and even pet owners, get

arrested

for. They like to call it " the right to effective treatment " and they

have

made fortunes from people who subscribe to the belief that " recovering "

a

person from autism is accomplished by forcing an autistic person to look

and

act like an NT - whatever it takes. Goodman and le

Gruskowski

(NJ's most recent restraint deaths) must have achieved this remarkable

feat.

I'm sure they appeared " indistinguishable from their peers " - as they

were

lying in their caskets.

>>

That's really sad. A moment of prayer from me for those 2 lives who were

needlessly lost.

Janette (defective enough to be just as peeved as Kassiane)

Not defective, just different.

Kassiane

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[Guest guest]

Kassiane, you're right as usual. We need a cure for NT. Perhaps those

still

hoping for a cure have been listening too much to the " experts " and not

enough to autistics themselves. Too much Maurice ( " a life

without

a soul... " boo hoo hoo!) and not enough http://www.autistics.org/.

Another

good site is the " Institute for the Study of the Neurologically Typical "

(http://isnt.autistics.org/).>>

ISNT is my favorite website ever. And Maurice upsets me...

The idea that autism is something that ought to be cured or " recovered

from "

can also lead to some very unfortunate consequences. Here in NJ we're

having

a real hard time getting legislation passed that would outlaw the use of

restraints and aversives as " treatment. " We have some extremely wealthy

corporations here, full of " experts, " who sell the more antiquated types

of

ABA/DTT based " intervention " programs for exhorbitant sums of money. You

remember ABA right? The " recovery " people? You can read about them at

CIBRA

http://users.1st.net/cibra/. Check out the " Academic Seminar " section to

find a review of " Autism Through the Lifespan: The Eden Model " and see

what

kinds of " behavior deceleration procedures " (that's

behavioral-pseudo-science-speak for torture) are inflicted on NJ's

autistic

population (at over $50,000 a pop) in order that they may more closely

resemble NTs. Why? Because that's what the buying public asks for. The

kinds

of things that Sondra described from the 80s are absolutely still going

on

today, and not just in NJ.>>

Theres the Judge Rottenburg center too. CIBRA gives me nightmares and

flashbacks...

Our local ABA corporations can afford and have hired professional

lobbying

firms to safeguard their right to " train " autistic individuals by

spraying

water in their faces, withholding food, forcing them to inhale ammonia

capsules, and worse. Things that parents, and even pet owners, get

arrested

for. They like to call it " the right to effective treatment " and they

have

made fortunes from people who subscribe to the belief that " recovering "

a

person from autism is accomplished by forcing an autistic person to look

and

act like an NT - whatever it takes. Goodman and le

Gruskowski

(NJ's most recent restraint deaths) must have achieved this remarkable

feat.

I'm sure they appeared " indistinguishable from their peers " - as they

were

lying in their caskets.

>>

That's really sad. A moment of prayer from me for those 2 lives who were

needlessly lost.

Janette (defective enough to be just as peeved as Kassiane)

Not defective, just different.

Kassiane

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<<

I can only pray that someday my daughter is able to SPEAK let alone log

onto a computer to bash NTs. It's very easy to do when you are able to

communicate. >>

You dont know that any of us are verbal. People who cant speak can often

type. And I beleive it was decided long ago that the pity party thing is

passee...

<<My daughter cannot even shake her head yes or no,

point to what she wants, use simple signs, or ANY form of

communication.>>

And how old is she? Tried PECS yet?

<<You can only speak for yourself. Do not try to speak

for my daughter or anyone else who is autistic. >>

I know MANY autistic people who agree with me. I speak for me ONLY, as

you can speak for you ONLY. I happen to know MANY people who agree with

me, but they can demonstrate that in ways other than through me.

<

may other parents and caretakers are, to get support and encouragement

to help us help our girls with autism. " Help " is going to mean

different things to different people. You want to come here and post

" Hooray, I'm autistic! Celebrate me! " >>

DO NOT assign motivations to me. EVER. Your theory of MY mind is just as

bad as my theory of yours. I want ALL oeople celebrated, I want

neurodiversity celebrated, I want all these kids WHO THEY ARE to be

celebrated. I AM NOT AGAINST PROGRESS. Why is that so flippin hard to

understand???????

<

there are a lot of us who don't feel much like celebrating. I feel

blessed just to make it through each and every day.>>

Ask me about my childhood sometime. Specifically 6th grade. Ask me how

many ibuprofin a 60 pound 12 year old with poor absorption can survive.

Ask me if said 60 pound 12 year old can kick a steel door off a steel

locker. Ask me about a 50 hour meltdown and the effects on the 10 year

old body. I know all of these things because I EXPERIENCED them. But

maybe I wasnt the problem here...maybe it was " normality " because my

outside the norm-ness made all that " ok " .

<<I am very happy

for those who are autistic and are happy with their life. I can only

hope for the same thing for someday, but right now she is

miserable and in pain, and I'm going to do whatever it takes to help

her. It doesn't make me " anti-autism " it makes me PRO-ERIN!>>

HELP HER TO NOT= BE IN PAIN. Dont try to make her into something she is

NOT.

not anti NT, just pro true to oneself,

Kassiane

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---

So well said....you know I think just as no one who is NT can

imagine what its like to have autism..only a parent of a child with

autism can know what its like to have that experience.

>>

Yanno, its a bit harder to experience autism without being autistic than

it is to experience caring for an autie child without having one.

not negating that it's a challenge, just saying that it sucks that what

PARENTS think apparently overrules what real live autistic people

think...

Kassiane

who is probably not going to be around for much longer

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[Guest guest]

Kassiane and Jeanette, I to be to agree the whole approach of this is wrong

and needs to be stopped . I to know I to lived name in my own country from

things of this and it needs to be to seen as inhumane. Left with deep scars

and pains from that time in my life and it still affects the way I to be now

and interact with people. I to be one who is somewhat hyper alert in

watching peoples trying desperately to pick up any cues they might not be of

safe.

That approach is horrible to try to so call fix us and you are right we will

look nice and typical in the coffin but not from there doing anything that

made us typical. I to also believe in teaching with dignity and the child or

person having their dignity always priority in any approach. My goal for any

child would not be to make them so called typical in the sense one might

think but to teach them to communicate so as to reduce their anxiety and

frustrations within themselves. The little girl I to work for , never is it

my goal to make her typical but functional enough to fit in where she wants

to be and this is my goals in my work for her. I let her lead and make sure

that the things she wants in life is obtained and done with the most dignity

and humanness I can be to instill in this teaching and it works because she

has many play dates and friends who invite her over to their house and come

to hers and she is accepted so much by her peers but still very autistic and

calls them names, destroys there work at times, kicks , hits, spits. Why do

the kids continue to be her friend because they were taught that word

" AUTISM " and how it affects this child and that she does not do this things

to be mean or with intent to be mean. They have a name to why she is like

this , not left wondering why she acts this way. They are free to ask

questions about the autism to me , I foster the interactions and help it

along and the children do love this little girl in their class and those who

dont still give her dignity and respect for who she is and never says

negative remarks to her they just avoid her space but not in a negative way

.. So in true both sides win in this case and I never once changed the autism

parts of her but taught her better choices to some of her ways to interact

with her peers by teaching her how the other person might feel if one spits

at them or calls them a name and she is on her own working on that change.

She is HFA and age 9.

Sondra

Sondra

[Guest guest]

<-----Original Message----->

> She's been trained in the behavioralist school. I think she honestly

> beleives that her traning knows best, and that it IS behavioral not

> neurological. There is no excuse for that kind of ignorance, but she's

> older than me...as is everyone else who works with him...Im both

> youngest and smallest...and only autie...

Of course, what got me fired from one of my families (just a few weeks

ago)

was " consistency and timeliness " (I wasn't getting through enough drills

in

a session, I guess). It was so sudden, though, that I have a feeling it

was

more politics than anything else. Mostly because nobody said, " You need

to

do this and this better, here are ways you can do that. " It was just two

overlaps (one with the consultant, one with a senior therapist who comes

in

to teams to DO overlaps), with minimal feedback, and then " I'm sorry,

but

we're going to have to let you go. " >>

That sounds frighteningly like what is happening here. Suddenly is

being brought down POed, and then they have someone double with me and I

over hear the words " be critical and objective in your evaluation " . And

none of this was happening till I got into it about sensory issues being

real, not work avoidance

Anyway, that's sort of off the topic except that I do know how Kassi's

going

to feel if she does get fired. *hugs to Kassi, if she'll take them*. >>

Of course I will *hugs back*

Kassiane

..

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