Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 You didn't upset me!!! Cheryl S Re: Cure? Kass, thank-you for that reply about NT's!!! that made my day, you are so wonderful!>> Im glad there's at least one person it didnt upset =) Kassiane .. _______________________________________________________________ Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 << > Take away the cancer and they are still the same THEM they were before. Take away the cause of autism and they will still be them. It is the same thing, just different diseases.>> AUTISM IS NOT A DISEASE. It is a different order of being. Take away my world view, the way my brain works, and you take away Kassiane. > Thats not personality, that is what one can DO. What one can do affects and shapes their personality. Me being able/unable to do certain things is part of what shapes me and makes me the person I am today. >> Not in the same way autism does. I cant put it into words... epilepsy, etc, themselves do not define total worldview the way autism does. << As soon as the symptoms of autism are fixed, they are still them.>> NO WE ARENT. If I made eye contact, understood facial expressions, and was no longer the walking talking interavctive USTA rule book and DD calculator, I would not be me! AUTISM IS INTEGRAL! I cannot get my sugar consistantly fixed, just as autistics cannot get their biological issues fixed, same thing, different symptoms and disease names.>> Again, autism is no disease, its a condition. Not all autistics have the " biological " facet. Autism does not = the associated issues with help-autism is the NEUROLOGY. > > Talk to autistic adults. See how many of us want a cure. THe answer is > startlingly close to NONE. People donmt die from autism. They die from > what people do to them because of autism, but the neurology itself is > not terminal. >> I notice how you ignored this. If you are going to argue with me, kindly address the above too. << > Not all autism is running away. That is tragic, it really is, and I am > so sorry that family lost their little boy. I know families who are > losing their children in other ways-losing who they really are, or their > time to enjoy with them, by forcing them into molds of typicality. > > Kassiane I know NT people who lose their kids because of attempting to force them into something they are not. We are talking about curing the biological problems. >> Then say that. DONT say curing autism, for there is a BIG difference. *none of the associated biological issues but still autistic,* Kassiane _______________________________________________________________ Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 << > Take away the cancer and they are still the same THEM they were before. Take away the cause of autism and they will still be them. It is the same thing, just different diseases.>> AUTISM IS NOT A DISEASE. It is a different order of being. Take away my world view, the way my brain works, and you take away Kassiane. > Thats not personality, that is what one can DO. What one can do affects and shapes their personality. Me being able/unable to do certain things is part of what shapes me and makes me the person I am today. >> Not in the same way autism does. I cant put it into words... epilepsy, etc, themselves do not define total worldview the way autism does. << As soon as the symptoms of autism are fixed, they are still them.>> NO WE ARENT. If I made eye contact, understood facial expressions, and was no longer the walking talking interavctive USTA rule book and DD calculator, I would not be me! AUTISM IS INTEGRAL! I cannot get my sugar consistantly fixed, just as autistics cannot get their biological issues fixed, same thing, different symptoms and disease names.>> Again, autism is no disease, its a condition. Not all autistics have the " biological " facet. Autism does not = the associated issues with help-autism is the NEUROLOGY. > > Talk to autistic adults. See how many of us want a cure. THe answer is > startlingly close to NONE. People donmt die from autism. They die from > what people do to them because of autism, but the neurology itself is > not terminal. >> I notice how you ignored this. If you are going to argue with me, kindly address the above too. << > Not all autism is running away. That is tragic, it really is, and I am > so sorry that family lost their little boy. I know families who are > losing their children in other ways-losing who they really are, or their > time to enjoy with them, by forcing them into molds of typicality. > > Kassiane I know NT people who lose their kids because of attempting to force them into something they are not. We are talking about curing the biological problems. >> Then say that. DONT say curing autism, for there is a BIG difference. *none of the associated biological issues but still autistic,* Kassiane _______________________________________________________________ Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 > AUTISM IS NOT A DISEASE. It is a different order of being. Take away my > world view, the way my brain works, and you take away Kassiane. There have been numerous studies that show various biological issues/diseases that are apart of autism spectrum disorder. A child who develops typically then suddenly withdraws into his/her own world, begins to have diarrhea, cannot speak, has immunilogical bloodwork that is off the charts with abnormalities, etc are definitely biological. Really, the discussion between neurological/bioligical is one of semantics. What you feel is neurological I might feel is biological, vica versa. All of these result in shaping the person's personality. This is where I think the disagreement is. > What one can do affects and shapes their personality. Me being > able/unable to do certain things is part of what shapes me and makes > me the person I am today. > > Not in the same way autism does. I cant put it into words... > epilepsy, etc, themselves do not define total worldview the way autism does. Perhaps you feel that various other diseases do not affect them is because you haven't experienced their issues, just as those without autism have not experienced the issues that create autism. If I tell you that cancer, for example, makes me the person I am today, from what you have stated, you seem to disagree with that, that only autism makes a person who they are. Again, it seems to me to be a philosophical issue. > > << > > As soon as the symptoms of autism are fixed, they are still them.>> > > NO WE ARENT. If I made eye contact, understood facial expressions, and was no longer the walking talking interavctive USTA rule book and DD calculator, I would not be me! AUTISM IS INTEGRAL! Again, it's a philosophical discussion. > > > I cannot get my sugar consistantly fixed, just as autistics cannot > get their biological issues fixed, same thing, different symptoms and disease names.>> > > Again, autism is no disease, its a condition. Not all autistics have the " biological " facet. Autism does not = the associated issues with help-autism is the NEUROLOGY. Neurology could be considered biologicial, because it is part of the human body, but I think I covered that issue above. > > > > > > > Talk to autistic adults. See how many of us want a cure. THe answer is startlingly close to NONE. People donmt die from autism. They die from what people do to them because of autism, but the neurology itself is not terminal. > I notice how you ignored this. If you are going to argue with me, kindly address the above too. I did not ignore this, nor am I arguing with you. I did not answer it because the only adult autistics I know are -- he's completely nonverbal and unable to communicate. I believe with all my heart if he could communicate he would tell me that he wishes someone could help find out why he cannot and help him. I don't consider that cruel or disrepectful to his person. -- I don't know well enough to ask him such a personal question. I do know that I've told him I hope Allie can one day be like him, which obviously made him feel good, and I meant what I said. I also watched him follow me out to the parking lot, away from his co-workers to tell me that he's autistic, which I already knew. So, obviously he felt a need to keep it private. I would not want to intrude on his privacy. So, I hope this makes you feel less like I'm trying to evade you and I also hope you realize I'm not arguing, for you are no more right or wrong than I am. Part of discussions with each other are to listen and experience each other's opinions, feelings and ideas. In the end, I hope to gain from discussions, especially when obvious differing of opinions happen is that I can see your way of thinking to help me adjust, just as I hope that you can gain some new way of thinking from me. > > > Not all autism is running away. That is tragic, it really is, and I am so sorry that family lost their little boy. I know families who are losing their children in other ways-losing who they really are, or their time to enjoy with them, by forcing them into molds of typicality.> > I realize not all forms of autism are running away. But, it seems that it is just the point. What's okay for you might not be okay for someone else, just as what's okay for someone else might not be okay for you. It's all relative to the individual. > > > Kassiane > > > I know NT people who lose their kids because of attempting to force them into something they are not. We are talking about curing the biological problems. Then say that. DONT say curing autism, for there is a BIG difference. Well, to say every time " I hope to cure autistic encopresis, echolalia, gluten/casein/salicylate intolerance, fix heavy metal excretion/metabolic imbalances, remove excess yeast and other fungi, improve central auditory processing disorder, sensory integration dysfunction, constant/inappropriate masturbation, receptive/expressive language, violent outbursts, and anxiety that appears related to obsessive compulsive disorder " can become a bit extreme. Since all these issues are part of my child's autism, it's much easier to say I hope to cure her autism. *none of the associated biological issues but still autistic,* > Kassiane > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at > http://www.mail2world.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 > AUTISM IS NOT A DISEASE. It is a different order of being. Take away my > world view, the way my brain works, and you take away Kassiane. There have been numerous studies that show various biological issues/diseases that are apart of autism spectrum disorder. A child who develops typically then suddenly withdraws into his/her own world, begins to have diarrhea, cannot speak, has immunilogical bloodwork that is off the charts with abnormalities, etc are definitely biological. Really, the discussion between neurological/bioligical is one of semantics. What you feel is neurological I might feel is biological, vica versa. All of these result in shaping the person's personality. This is where I think the disagreement is. > What one can do affects and shapes their personality. Me being > able/unable to do certain things is part of what shapes me and makes > me the person I am today. > > Not in the same way autism does. I cant put it into words... > epilepsy, etc, themselves do not define total worldview the way autism does. Perhaps you feel that various other diseases do not affect them is because you haven't experienced their issues, just as those without autism have not experienced the issues that create autism. If I tell you that cancer, for example, makes me the person I am today, from what you have stated, you seem to disagree with that, that only autism makes a person who they are. Again, it seems to me to be a philosophical issue. > > << > > As soon as the symptoms of autism are fixed, they are still them.>> > > NO WE ARENT. If I made eye contact, understood facial expressions, and was no longer the walking talking interavctive USTA rule book and DD calculator, I would not be me! AUTISM IS INTEGRAL! Again, it's a philosophical discussion. > > > I cannot get my sugar consistantly fixed, just as autistics cannot > get their biological issues fixed, same thing, different symptoms and disease names.>> > > Again, autism is no disease, its a condition. Not all autistics have the " biological " facet. Autism does not = the associated issues with help-autism is the NEUROLOGY. Neurology could be considered biologicial, because it is part of the human body, but I think I covered that issue above. > > > > > > > Talk to autistic adults. See how many of us want a cure. THe answer is startlingly close to NONE. People donmt die from autism. They die from what people do to them because of autism, but the neurology itself is not terminal. > I notice how you ignored this. If you are going to argue with me, kindly address the above too. I did not ignore this, nor am I arguing with you. I did not answer it because the only adult autistics I know are -- he's completely nonverbal and unable to communicate. I believe with all my heart if he could communicate he would tell me that he wishes someone could help find out why he cannot and help him. I don't consider that cruel or disrepectful to his person. -- I don't know well enough to ask him such a personal question. I do know that I've told him I hope Allie can one day be like him, which obviously made him feel good, and I meant what I said. I also watched him follow me out to the parking lot, away from his co-workers to tell me that he's autistic, which I already knew. So, obviously he felt a need to keep it private. I would not want to intrude on his privacy. So, I hope this makes you feel less like I'm trying to evade you and I also hope you realize I'm not arguing, for you are no more right or wrong than I am. Part of discussions with each other are to listen and experience each other's opinions, feelings and ideas. In the end, I hope to gain from discussions, especially when obvious differing of opinions happen is that I can see your way of thinking to help me adjust, just as I hope that you can gain some new way of thinking from me. > > > Not all autism is running away. That is tragic, it really is, and I am so sorry that family lost their little boy. I know families who are losing their children in other ways-losing who they really are, or their time to enjoy with them, by forcing them into molds of typicality.> > I realize not all forms of autism are running away. But, it seems that it is just the point. What's okay for you might not be okay for someone else, just as what's okay for someone else might not be okay for you. It's all relative to the individual. > > > Kassiane > > > I know NT people who lose their kids because of attempting to force them into something they are not. We are talking about curing the biological problems. Then say that. DONT say curing autism, for there is a BIG difference. Well, to say every time " I hope to cure autistic encopresis, echolalia, gluten/casein/salicylate intolerance, fix heavy metal excretion/metabolic imbalances, remove excess yeast and other fungi, improve central auditory processing disorder, sensory integration dysfunction, constant/inappropriate masturbation, receptive/expressive language, violent outbursts, and anxiety that appears related to obsessive compulsive disorder " can become a bit extreme. Since all these issues are part of my child's autism, it's much easier to say I hope to cure her autism. *none of the associated biological issues but still autistic,* > Kassiane > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at > http://www.mail2world.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 , I agree with you & the others. I'm on another list & there is so much talk about curing their child & beating the clock that it had me a bit worried in how I was looking at things. That's why I asked the question. Like I said before I was wondering if I was missing something. I feel the same way all of you do. We love Sky so much & she is such a little star. She shines so bright that everyone that comes in contact with her falls in love. I wouldn't change any of that for anything. I do wish I could make it easier for her to speak words so she could communicate better and take away her frustrations. I want to do whatever I can & make available all the therapies & treatments I can to make her life easier, but I don't want my family to be consumed with finding a cure. I hope that came out right. When my girls are grown I want both my girls to remember having fun with each other & others when they were little not it all being about Sky's therapies & missing out on fun things because we were so focused on working with Sky. I'm not sure if any of this is coming out the right way. I've found it hard to express in words how I feel about this since we've received this diagnosis. Wendie > Wendie, Just my 2 cents worth on the cure issue.... Take it with a grain of salt as I am far from being an expert. I do believe that there is no cure for our kids. The reason I think that is that it is not a disease, it is a condition....You can cure a disease, not a condition. I think those that have claimed a cure, are just very fortunate that their children can " pass " as typical, probably for alot of reasons. Therapys, diet, meds, ect. whatever works for your child, and they are all different, so the same combination of things do not work for all kids. We all just strive to find the right thing or group of things that help our kids to cope in a neuro-typical world so they can have the best life available to them. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 <-----Original Message-----> There have been numerous studies that show various biological issues/diseases that are apart of autism spectrum disorder. A child who develops typically then suddenly withdraws into his/her own world, begins to have diarrhea, cannot speak, has immunilogical bloodwork that is off the charts with abnormalities, etc are definitely biological. Really, the discussion between neurological/bioligical is one of semantics. What you feel is neurological I might feel is biological, vica versa. All of these result in shaping the person's personality. This is where I think the disagreement is. >> But since you are NT you are right? Thats the message I keep getting. > > Not in the same way autism does. I cant put it into words... > epilepsy, etc, themselves do not define total worldview the way autism does. Perhaps you feel that various other diseases do not affect them is because you haven't experienced their issues, just as those without autism have not experienced the issues that create autism. If I tell you that cancer, for example, makes me the person I am today, from what you have stated, you seem to disagree with that, that only autism makes a person who they are. Again, it seems to me to be a philosophical issue. >. Ive experienced hypoglycemia. That doesnt change who I am. The doctor thinks I have temporal lobe seizures. Those dont change who I am. Autism goes to the core, my pancreatic and temporal lobe misfirings dont. > > << > > As soon as the symptoms of autism are fixed, they are still them.>> > > NO WE ARENT. If I made eye contact, understood facial expressions, and was no longer the walking talking interavctive USTA rule book and DD calculator, I would not be me! AUTISM IS INTEGRAL! Again, it's a philosophical discussion. >> How is it " philosophical " for me to KNOW that my core being is autistic? I AM ME! > Again, autism is no disease, its a condition. Not all autistics have the " biological " facet. Autism does not = the associated issues with help-autism is the NEUROLOGY. Neurology could be considered biologicial, because it is part of the human body, but I think I covered that issue above. >> The biological issues they typically talk of are the ones relating to the gut-the ones that can be changed WITHOUT cutting open our heads... I did not ignore this, nor am I arguing with you. I did not answer it because the only adult autistics I know are -- he's completely nonverbal and unable to communicate. I believe with all my heart if he could communicate he would tell me that he wishes someone could help find out why he cannot and help him. I don't consider that cruel or disrepectful to his person. -- I don't know well enough to ask him such a personal question. I do know that I've told him I hope Allie can one day be like him, which obviously made him feel good, and I meant what I said. I also watched him follow me out to the parking lot, away from his co-workers to tell me that he's autistic, which I already knew. So, obviously he felt a need to keep it private. I would not want to intrude on his privacy. >> We arent hard to find. Go poke around www.ani.ac <http://www.ani.ac> , or autistics.org. You'll see what I mean. So, I hope this makes you feel less like I'm trying to evade you and I also hope you realize I'm not arguing, for you are no more right or wrong than I am. Part of discussions with each other are to listen and experience each other's opinions, feelings and ideas. In the end, I hope to gain from discussions, especially when obvious differing of opinions happen is that I can see your way of thinking to help me adjust, just as I hope that you can gain some new way of thinking from me. >> I think on this issue no one will EVER change their minds > I realize not all forms of autism are running away. But, it seems that it is just the point. What's okay for you might not be okay for someone else, just as what's okay for someone else might not be okay for you. It's all relative to the individual. >> > <<Then say that. DONT say curing autism, for there is a BIG difference. Well, to say every time " I hope to cure autistic encopresis, echolalia, gluten/casein/salicylate intolerance, fix heavy metal excretion/metabolic imbalances, remove excess yeast and other fungi, improve central auditory processing disorder, sensory integration dysfunction, constant/inappropriate masturbation, receptive/expressive language, violent outbursts, and anxiety that appears related to obsessive compulsive disorder " can become a bit extreme. Since all these issues are part of my child's autism, it's much easier to say I hope to cure her autism. >> Whats wrong with echolalia? The other things I can see as a pain in the rear, because I deal with the ones that arent gut related, and salicylate intolerance, but echolalia is a step in language development. Kassiane _______________________________________________________________ Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 < Re: Re: Cure? > But since you are NT you are right? Thats the message I keep getting. What I am saying is that you or me cannot define what is absolutely " right " , we can only define what is right for our individual lives. Communication is about me taking positive points you have made, pondering them, and making adjustments in my beliefs/values and you taking positive points from what I have said, pondering them, and making adjustments/values based on it. It's mutually beneficial. I do not attempt to convey " I'm right, you're wrong " but " you see X I see Y, don't both hold merit? " . You and I can discuss till the Second Coming, I'm just trying to explain to you that I feel equal value in our discussion, but I get an impression of intense anger toward anything I say which opposes you. I am trying to diffuse the anger, if there.. Sending this to both you and list, do with what you will... Anger. Yes right now I am angry. Its not at you, more at The System, its just shading everything. Usually I am a black and white thinker, right now I am more so, which is why I am having trouble with the concept of adjusting. Im sorry. Kassiane who is quite likely about to be fired from working with an autistic kid for having the audacity to know that sensory issues are NOT behavioral. _______________________________________________________________ Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 I got a new cookbook to!!! Taste of Home Quick cooking. It should be called " make you fat quick " . I will however be useing it this weekend anyway. LOL Pennie Abby's Mom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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