Re: feedback...Free

[Guest guest]

[of all things - numbness hurts worst of all.]

Yes, feeling nothing is the empty state that is the scariest...knowing that

we are numb is the awful truth with no remedy.

I don't recall ever reading before that you have survived childhood sexual

abuse Free. My heart wants to hold you, and tell you that it is OK and that it

was not your fault.

My nada was so controlling that she abused my sister and me, under the

pretext of 'discovery'...paranoid, destructive, evil hate for my father.

Hug...Hug...hug...Carol

In a message dated 4/23/04 11:42:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

otwoma2002@... writes:

Dear Free,

One thing that sticks in my mind about your guy friend was the way he kept

you waiting a long time and once you even slept in your car. At the time, you

guys were still together, but I felt that was way inconsiderate. Simply not the

way you treat even a friend. We KOs seem to have a loooooong rope. Take care.

Otwoma

free_spirit_etc wrote:

Thanks ottwoma. Yes. I guess sometimes there is too much chalk on the

board. And with fresh slates you can just start writing what you

want - with no need to try to erase all the other stuff first.

I'm sorry your wounds still hurt... probably not as " bad " as before -

but in a different way. Sharp shooting pains, dull aches. little

twinges - all have different ways of hurting.. but still hurt.

And since I seem to just now be getting in touch with the wounds and

pains I have carrried for years - I'm sure I will experience them all

through this process.

But in getting in touch with my own pain - I am getting stronger.

Perhaps I am discovering that of all things - numbness hurts worst of

all.

Free (still working on erasing my own slate for me. I will have a

beautiful slate someday. Not fresh and clean and shiny and new - but

beautiful in its own way - even with the faint remaining chalk lines

telling my story.)

>

> > Lastly, it still burns me that nada told me (in an email) during

> our last conversation 15 months ago that she knew how I felt (she

> said I was angry). How in the HELL can someone know how someone

> feels w/o asking? You'd think that it would be important to her to

> ask me how I felt..I thought I mattered enough to her to be asked.

> It's bad but the only response I can feel is appropriate when

> thinking about my nada is " F you " ... Yes I'm angry now...angry

that

> its been 15 months of you blowing me off and saying I'm mean,

hateful

> and cruel...15 months ago I wasn't angry, I was hurt because of

what

> you did to me...the hurt turned into anger because nada did nothing

> to address the issue. Well in the end she is right, I'm angry

NOW...

> >

> > Thanks for listening...Mike

[Guest guest]

[of all things - numbness hurts worst of all.]

Yes, feeling nothing is the empty state that is the scariest...knowing that

we are numb is the awful truth with no remedy.

I don't recall ever reading before that you have survived childhood sexual

abuse Free. My heart wants to hold you, and tell you that it is OK and that it

was not your fault.

My nada was so controlling that she abused my sister and me, under the

pretext of 'discovery'...paranoid, destructive, evil hate for my father.

Hug...Hug...hug...Carol

In a message dated 4/23/04 11:42:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

otwoma2002@... writes:

Dear Free,

One thing that sticks in my mind about your guy friend was the way he kept

you waiting a long time and once you even slept in your car. At the time, you

guys were still together, but I felt that was way inconsiderate. Simply not the

way you treat even a friend. We KOs seem to have a loooooong rope. Take care.

Otwoma

free_spirit_etc wrote:

Thanks ottwoma. Yes. I guess sometimes there is too much chalk on the

board. And with fresh slates you can just start writing what you

want - with no need to try to erase all the other stuff first.

I'm sorry your wounds still hurt... probably not as " bad " as before -

but in a different way. Sharp shooting pains, dull aches. little

twinges - all have different ways of hurting.. but still hurt.

And since I seem to just now be getting in touch with the wounds and

pains I have carrried for years - I'm sure I will experience them all

through this process.

But in getting in touch with my own pain - I am getting stronger.

Perhaps I am discovering that of all things - numbness hurts worst of

all.

Free (still working on erasing my own slate for me. I will have a

beautiful slate someday. Not fresh and clean and shiny and new - but

beautiful in its own way - even with the faint remaining chalk lines

telling my story.)

>

> > Lastly, it still burns me that nada told me (in an email) during

> our last conversation 15 months ago that she knew how I felt (she

> said I was angry). How in the HELL can someone know how someone

> feels w/o asking? You'd think that it would be important to her to

> ask me how I felt..I thought I mattered enough to her to be asked.

> It's bad but the only response I can feel is appropriate when

> thinking about my nada is " F you " ... Yes I'm angry now...angry

that

> its been 15 months of you blowing me off and saying I'm mean,

hateful

> and cruel...15 months ago I wasn't angry, I was hurt because of

what

> you did to me...the hurt turned into anger because nada did nothing

> to address the issue. Well in the end she is right, I'm angry

NOW...

> >

> > Thanks for listening...Mike

[Guest guest]

Oh how far we must come...before we dare look back at the distance between

where we are now from where we began. There is only joy in arriving in this

place...and the time is right. Remorse is for those who did not undertake the

journey. Big hug...sister kiss...Carol

In a message dated 4/24/04 1:45:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

free_spirit_etc@... writes:

Yeah... he sure did keep me waiting...and waiting... in that limbo

kind of pergutory where you aren't quite in and you aren't quite

out....just kind of stuck in the middle in an unbalanced sort of a

way...hoping to be invited in and fearing being pushed out. I guess

that is a pretty freeing thing to me now - in I don't have to be so

afraid of messing up - because all that doesn't matter anymore. He

made his choice and it wasn't me. Case closed on that one. But at

least I'm not waiting anymore. And THAT feels really good.

And actually, I slept in my car quite often. I was never allowed to

spend the night, though for awhile he used to let me sleep there at

his house for a couple of hours when I was really tired - and that

felt really nice..and cozy.

But he even stopped doing that for some reason. I know that was

pretty frustrating for me toward the end especially. Because for so

long I kept holding on to the " SOON.. just a little while longer "

promise. But after a couple of years of that - it just gets hard to

believe anymore.

But I started thinking MAYBE we could work SOMETHING out - some kind

of a win-win. - Like that maybe HE could take a nap in the daytime

SOME of the time - and then I could sleep there for awhile (like a

few hours) sometimes - and not have to leave when I was so tired. And

he could get his rest and I could get mine - but I still wouldn't

have to spend the whole night - or come over earlier...and all the

other things that were important to him. Kind of a YOU give a little

THIS time and I " LL give a little next time sort of a thing. Or

probably, more accutrately, YOU give a little SOMETIMES - and I'll

feel better about giving the most most of the time kind of a thing.

It seemed reasonable to me - and I kept trying to bring it up

sometimes - but it seemed like we always got in an arguement about

the problem - and never could get around to discussing a solution...

and then often I was afraid to try to bring it up for fear he would

not let me come over if I was too tired to drive home.

I know some people have talked of my willingness to " settle for

crumbs. " I'm pretty ashamed to say that I pretty much got to the

point where I was willing to lick the bowl - even without crumbs.

But I am happy to say that I am really beginning to understand that

not only is it okay to WANT more than I was given - but that I

DESERVE more than that. I really do. I EXIST now - and I deserve to

be treated with dignity.

Free

[Guest guest]

Oh how far we must come...before we dare look back at the distance between

where we are now from where we began. There is only joy in arriving in this

place...and the time is right. Remorse is for those who did not undertake the

journey. Big hug...sister kiss...Carol

In a message dated 4/24/04 1:45:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

free_spirit_etc@... writes:

Yeah... he sure did keep me waiting...and waiting... in that limbo

kind of pergutory where you aren't quite in and you aren't quite

out....just kind of stuck in the middle in an unbalanced sort of a

way...hoping to be invited in and fearing being pushed out. I guess

that is a pretty freeing thing to me now - in I don't have to be so

afraid of messing up - because all that doesn't matter anymore. He

made his choice and it wasn't me. Case closed on that one. But at

least I'm not waiting anymore. And THAT feels really good.

And actually, I slept in my car quite often. I was never allowed to

spend the night, though for awhile he used to let me sleep there at

his house for a couple of hours when I was really tired - and that

felt really nice..and cozy.

But he even stopped doing that for some reason. I know that was

pretty frustrating for me toward the end especially. Because for so

long I kept holding on to the " SOON.. just a little while longer "

promise. But after a couple of years of that - it just gets hard to

believe anymore.

But I started thinking MAYBE we could work SOMETHING out - some kind

of a win-win. - Like that maybe HE could take a nap in the daytime

SOME of the time - and then I could sleep there for awhile (like a

few hours) sometimes - and not have to leave when I was so tired. And

he could get his rest and I could get mine - but I still wouldn't

have to spend the whole night - or come over earlier...and all the

other things that were important to him. Kind of a YOU give a little

THIS time and I " LL give a little next time sort of a thing. Or

probably, more accutrately, YOU give a little SOMETIMES - and I'll

feel better about giving the most most of the time kind of a thing.

It seemed reasonable to me - and I kept trying to bring it up

sometimes - but it seemed like we always got in an arguement about

the problem - and never could get around to discussing a solution...

and then often I was afraid to try to bring it up for fear he would

not let me come over if I was too tired to drive home.

I know some people have talked of my willingness to " settle for

crumbs. " I'm pretty ashamed to say that I pretty much got to the

point where I was willing to lick the bowl - even without crumbs.

But I am happy to say that I am really beginning to understand that

not only is it okay to WANT more than I was given - but that I

DESERVE more than that. I really do. I EXIST now - and I deserve to

be treated with dignity.

Free

[Guest guest]

> [of all things - numbness hurts worst of all.]

>

I think I have mentioned it a couple times. But it doesn't seem to be

a frequent topic of discussion either. And is a topic that can be

surrounded and steeped in so much shame. (Thanks for the articles on

Shame Edith - it is time to read through them again).

Yes...at my adult logical level I know it is not my fault. And I

don't go around thinking that I THINK I am fault.. Yet - there are

other levels...

I just started the book " healing your sexual self. " It should

probably be called " Why your sexual self is messed up. "

But I have only made it through one page (and of course, I didn't

start on page 1 - LOL)

But it is interesting how it gets into the dysfunctional family

system - not so much that that causes it - but sets the " conditions "

for it to happen.

It's still sinking in.

The " pretext? " of " discovery??? How horrid! The sexual abuse in

itself is bad. Yet all that crap that surrounds it can sometimes be

worse.

Hugs back at 'ya!!!!

Free

> Yes, feeling nothing is the empty state that is the

scariest...knowing that

> we are numb is the awful truth with no remedy.

>

> I don't recall ever reading before that you have survived childhood

sexual

> abuse Free. My heart wants to hold you, and tell you that it is OK

and that it

> was not your fault.

>

> My nada was so controlling that she abused my sister and me, under

the

> pretext of 'discovery'...paranoid, destructive, evil hate for my

father.

>

> Hug...Hug...hug...Carol

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Free, this hits home with me. There are times when I daydream for a

bit, asking myself all these questions. Exactly what do I want? Get

intouch with what I feel in my body when I let myself want something.

Most of the time its not comfortable. Kind of a jittery knotted

feeling. And this is just to think about it. If I take it a step

further and imagine expressing my desire, I feel fulfledged panic. Ive

learned to gently stay with that though, and not retreat. Its ok to be

scared. How could I feel otherwise if experience has taught me that?

So I stay with the feeling and breathe and pay attention to ME. Its an

honoring of self that I am not used to. Whatever the outcome, whether

or not I do express it, and whether or not its validated or fulfilled,

the fact that I gave MYSELF the time, attention, and expression is a

beautiful thing. What a journey and what a struggle!

N

Free wrote:

>But I am happy to say that I am really beginning to understand that

>not only is it okay to WANT more than I was given - but that I

>DESERVE more than that. I really do. I EXIST now - and I deserve to

>be treated with dignity.

Free

[Guest guest]

I remember several years back I could hardly even SAY " I want " I

would START to - and the words would get stuck... something like " I

WA......... "

I had to practice even SAYING it - like going into Mc's and

saying " I WANT a filet mignon! " LOL

Free

> >But I am happy to say that I am really beginning to understand that

> >not only is it okay to WANT more than I was given - but that I

> >DESERVE more than that. I really do. I EXIST now - and I deserve to

> >be treated with dignity.

>

> Free