Something good about nada?

[Guest guest]

I'd definitely fire the therapist...awesome insight Edith. My nada 'birthed'

me as as a locust drops an egg. Carol

[Guest guest]

I'd definitely fire the therapist...awesome insight Edith. My nada 'birthed'

me as as a locust drops an egg. Carol

[Guest guest]

<<

Anybody else want to talk about the good stuff in nada?

Or even just the not-completely-horrible?

>>

Hope and other KOs,

I find this exercise very interestink. At one time 'our' one therapissant

stopped my nada and asked her just what indeed she saw good in me. (She then

relayed that on to me that he said, " you just don't appreciate Rita or praise

her enough " ). I have to give her credit for that one.

Otay, here goes:

1. She knows she has a mental illness and 'sometimes' admits it. Ahem.

2. She has a sense of humor when she really gets going she is a riot.

3. She admits she is toxic when she's not in 'the zone'. " I'm toxic to you " .

4. She is clean. She is loyal to a fault.

5. She eats right. Good diet.

6. She taught me some manners even though she has none herself. (She admits

this).

7. She doesn't sleep around. (My dad tossed in his sleep and they 'got'

me). <wink>

8. She is an excellent cook if you can get it off the ceiling. Give peas a

chance.

9. She takes care of her physical as well as mental health. <heavy sigh>.

10.She is on time and prompt.

11. She is open-minded to a dx 'sometimes' of a mental health variety.

12. She's frugal and financially thrifty and taught me some of that.

13. She pays her bills on time.

14. She could grow plants and gardens that made the whole neighborhood awe

her.

15. She's well-read and up on current events.

Bear in mind I haven't seen her for almost two years or talked to her.

Rita

" And she'll have fun, fun, fun 'till her daddy takes the keyboard away " .

[Guest guest]

<<

Anybody else want to talk about the good stuff in nada?

Or even just the not-completely-horrible?

>>

Hope and other KOs,

I find this exercise very interestink. At one time 'our' one therapissant

stopped my nada and asked her just what indeed she saw good in me. (She then

relayed that on to me that he said, " you just don't appreciate Rita or praise

her enough " ). I have to give her credit for that one.

Otay, here goes:

1. She knows she has a mental illness and 'sometimes' admits it. Ahem.

2. She has a sense of humor when she really gets going she is a riot.

3. She admits she is toxic when she's not in 'the zone'. " I'm toxic to you " .

4. She is clean. She is loyal to a fault.

5. She eats right. Good diet.

6. She taught me some manners even though she has none herself. (She admits

this).

7. She doesn't sleep around. (My dad tossed in his sleep and they 'got'

me). <wink>

8. She is an excellent cook if you can get it off the ceiling. Give peas a

chance.

9. She takes care of her physical as well as mental health. <heavy sigh>.

10.She is on time and prompt.

11. She is open-minded to a dx 'sometimes' of a mental health variety.

12. She's frugal and financially thrifty and taught me some of that.

13. She pays her bills on time.

14. She could grow plants and gardens that made the whole neighborhood awe

her.

15. She's well-read and up on current events.

Bear in mind I haven't seen her for almost two years or talked to her.

Rita

" And she'll have fun, fun, fun 'till her daddy takes the keyboard away " .

[Guest guest]

Hi Hope,

The only 'good' thing I can think of is that my nada gave birth

to me. She was an emotional 2 yo and might not have been

thinking about anything as she did it, but she did. LOL

Personally, I'd fire that therapist! Just my 2 cents.

- Edith

cre8within wrote:

> Hi Hope,

> I think when/if we are ready we might see some good things in nada,

> but only when we are ready and even want to. It can be a dangerous

> thing to have compassion for nada or even look for good qualities

> because it can trigger so much; guilt, anger, etc. So many of us had

> to pretend nada WAS okay when she wasn't. An exercise like that would

> trigger anger in me and I would tell a T that I couldn't think of

> anything and that is that.....let her spend twenty years with nada

> and see what she comes up with...okay, harsh. From what you've

> written, it doesn't sound like your T may completely understand the

> complex issues we KO's deal with. My T doesn't specialize in treating

> KO's either, but she lets me cross paths as I come to them. She

> doesn't tell me how I should feel or what issue I should be working

> through. Together we figure it out. I think that way is best. A T is

> someone with whom we should feel comfortable and understood. That is

> very important. Take care, .

>

>

>

>>Dear KOs,

>>

>>I fight with my therapist alot. Right now one big thing we

>>are stuck on is me appreciating something - anything -

>>about my nada. My therapist says she thinks the key to me

>>moving forward is in being able to accept my nada as a

>>complex individual, to see good and bad things about her. I

>>figure I can see plenty of bad stuff and nothing good worth

>>mentioning, so since I see the bad, and my therapist wants

>>me to add good in there, basically my therapist is trying

>>to get me to see something good about nada. And I just

>>can't come up with a single thing.

>>

>>I could be splitting my nada all-bad and " refusing " to

>>accept " good things " about her, but I think it's also

>>possible that there simply isn't that much to appreciate.

>>And it's like my therapist won't accept that possiblity,

>>and is taking away my credibility. The things my therapist

>>tries to latch onto as examples of places where there is

>> " good " stuff about my nada seem pathetic to me and send me

>>off in a rage. For instance: I told my T about how

>>sometimes I am more afraid of bumping into my nada in a

>>public place than I am afraid of a suicide bomber... that I

>>find myself looking around at people on the bus because I

>>am worried about seeing her again... that I sometimes want

>>to break into a run if I see a car that looks like hers

>>coming down the street... that I spend time and energy

>>being ready to flee from her if she shows up. And that

>>there is something that needs to change if I am more afraid

>>of my nada than of a suicide bomber!!! My therapist said

>> " ah, you see, you are still looking for her " ---- like I

>>was still hoping to see her, she didn't get it!!

>>

>>Or another example - my therapist said that she KNOWS what

>>people turn out like when they get NOTHING from their

>>parents - and that the fact that I am a reasonably

>>productive member of society and can function to a

>>reasonably high extent is evidence that my parents did

>>SOMETHING right. " You're not a hooker or in prison " , she

>>said. Well, thanks a lot!! I spent my whole life overcoming

>>having had a nada and a dish-rag-dad, and when I finally

>>have some accomplishments DESPITE having had them for

>> " parents " , my T comes along and gives the credit for my

>>accomplishments to them, saying it is evidence that THEY

>>were okay (not that *I* accomplished something).

>>

>>So she doesn't seem to have any way of telling me what she

>>means I should appreciate... but still I am thinking about

>>what it could be she means when she wants me to acknowledge

>>my nada as a complex individual... I have been putting a

>>lot of thought into it and can't come up with a single

>>thing I can really give my parents credit for (as

>>parents)... other than the situations where they were

>>outright damaging (such as telling me I am a stupid little

>>shit, not stopping my two year old brother from a suicide

>>attempt, not feeding us, etc etc), the other stuff they

>>either did right by accident or for the wrong reasons. Like

>>when Nada wanted to be accepted socially as a 'good mother'

>>so she did lots of stuff in public. Or if she was trying to

>>live through me so she did stuff for me that she wished her

>>parents had done for her.

>>

>>Anybody else want to talk about the good stuff in nada?

>>

>>Or even just the not-completely-horrible?

>>

>>=====

>>Hope

[Guest guest]

[Every person, nearly, including my husband for the first 20 years of our

relationship, thought I was exaggerating on the damage she has done to me. It

was this past year that he finally saw it.]

Hi Marla, My husband finally 'got it' Christmas a year ago; he saw that

empty gaze in our sons eyes, that I had, after a nada attack. He saw our sons

physically recoil from her verbal assault, watched them 'disassociate' from

feeling the moment; and will forever think differently. Carol

In a message dated 3/29/04 11:40:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, psm568@...

writes:

I have thought alot about this today. Sure there are some good things about

my Nada. But the real problem with this exercise as I see it is that we did

accept them. All children accept their parents. Let me repeat: ALL

children

accept their parents. That we have had to withdraw, due to violence on all

sorts of different levels, should be the only thing that matters.

Why is it, I wonder, that a couple of relationships are just not open to

scrutiny? Mothers are not supposed to be abusers, and if you say that yours

IS,

you have really broken the code. Every person, nearly, including my husband

for the first 20 years of our relationship, thought I was exaggerating on the

damage she has done to me. It was this past year that he finally saw it. He

was looking at me one day, in the throes of PTSD, and just got it. Finally.

Interestingly, this was on the heals of abuse of the other variety, of

children,

by children, which we had invited into our home, and were so thoroughly

damaged by their deranged biological mother (and a civil war, and a long

stint in

an orphanage where they were raped and starved, etc. etc.), that they could

not

remain here with us.

Okay, so, what I thought was, it is really of no value to try to think of

their good points. Because, as children, that was all that we saw. We hung

onto

that good stuff, like a life raft, through their inexplicable and deranged

behavior. Enough already. I don't want to think of what is good about my

Nada

any longer. I know she isn't entirely evil, but it serves as much purpose as

trying to think of something nice about a rapist. ( " Wow, at least he let me

shower afterwards! " ).

My gut feeling is that the therapist in question doesn't get it. But then,

very few people, who haven't lived with it, get RAD either.

Marla

[Guest guest]

She's too old to climb over the 5'-high locked gate at the end of our

driveway.

F :-)

[Guest guest]

She's too old to climb over the 5'-high locked gate at the end of our

driveway.

F :-)

[Guest guest]

> She's too old to climb over the 5'-high locked gate at the end of our

> driveway.

>

> F :-)

LoL! :-)

Something good about mine -- she's dead.

[Guest guest]

yes we are nada phobic and yes if we drop our guard she will bite. My foo

says they never know if nada will kiss you or kick you.

[Guest guest]

yes we are nada phobic and yes if we drop our guard she will bite. My foo

says they never know if nada will kiss you or kick you.

[Guest guest]

I have a question regarding Nadas or Fadas and pets. My Nada has never liked

them. Anything which isn't all about her is just not worth the effort.

Anyone else found that to be true?

Marla

[Guest guest]

I have a question regarding Nadas or Fadas and pets. My Nada has never liked

them. Anything which isn't all about her is just not worth the effort.

Anyone else found that to be true?

Marla

[Guest guest]

> Anybody else want to talk about the good stuff in nada?

>

> Or even just the not-completely-horrible?

> =====

> Hope

I think it is total BS that you came out OK due in any part to your

nada or her " parenting. " You came out " OK " IN SPITE of your nada and

her " parenting. " Do I need to give my nada credit for screwing me up

SO MUCH that I was convinced there was something so wrong with me

that I had to start to fix it or die? My nada is good at taking care

of plants/gardens. (We won't talk about where she gets the plants.)

Still, I don't think I'd let her take care of any of MY plants, so

maybe that doesn't count? Anyway, for me it's not that I can't

possibly *see* ANY good in her, it's that it is so tangled up with

the other crap it's barely worth the effort of finding it!

PS, Hope, fire your therapist and don't ever visit a FOO aunt!!

hehehe

[Guest guest]

> Anybody else want to talk about the good stuff in nada?

>

> Or even just the not-completely-horrible?

> =====

> Hope

I think it is total BS that you came out OK due in any part to your

nada or her " parenting. " You came out " OK " IN SPITE of your nada and

her " parenting. " Do I need to give my nada credit for screwing me up

SO MUCH that I was convinced there was something so wrong with me

that I had to start to fix it or die? My nada is good at taking care

of plants/gardens. (We won't talk about where she gets the plants.)

Still, I don't think I'd let her take care of any of MY plants, so

maybe that doesn't count? Anyway, for me it's not that I can't

possibly *see* ANY good in her, it's that it is so tangled up with

the other crap it's barely worth the effort of finding it!

PS, Hope, fire your therapist and don't ever visit a FOO aunt!!

hehehe

[Guest guest]

Marla,

My nada seemed to be jealous of any affection that wasn't directed to

her. That also applied to pets. She made my father give away our

boxer, and I was so devastated. Don't remember how old I was then -

in elememtary school - and I realized that dog was the only constant

source of affection that I was getting at that time. Her explanation

was that this was a purebred, and dad didn't have enough time to

spend with her. (Bull crap!) Many years later, she did buy a dog (a

purebred!) for my sister, who had asked for a puppy for Christmas.

Imagine my surprise (I am 5 years older) to learn that if you ask for

something, you may get it. (Or does that only apply for the child

who is split all good?) For many reasons, I never thought it

was 'right' for me to ask for anything. That dog stayed with the

family until she died.

During that time, I got a kitten from a neighbor. Finally, a pet of

my very own! I was in high school. One day I came home, and the cat

(8 months old) was gone. Nada claimed she didn't like cats, and this

one had put a scratch in a piece of furniture. My sister explained

what happened....but no one really talked to me about it. And again -

I was devastated!

As an adult, my ex gave me a gift of a St. Bernard....big mistake

because we lived in an apartment, and the landlord said the dog had

to go. At this time, I was still trying to have a relationship with

my parents, and they said they would take the dog......3 months

later, she was given away.

Now, nada has another dog. Too complicated to explain how it came

into her life. But what I notice is that this dog is HERS. She

yells at it when it does something wrong, but makes no attempt to

train it (sortof like when she raised us). She actually enjoys

telling stories of how the dog misbehaves (makes her look long-

suffering.) No point in trying to make suggestions...my sister paid

for obedience school, but they didn't follow up. Hey! another

thought....can we design an obedience school for nadas and fadas?

> I have a question regarding Nadas or Fadas and pets. My Nada has

never liked

> them. Anything which isn't all about her is just not worth the

effort.

> Anyone else found that to be true?

>

> Marla

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My nada supposedly likes dogs and hates cats. I have two cats of

course even though I love dogs too...and fish and horses and

everything else. But I say supposedly, b/c she kicked our family dog

once off the porch and that is the only time we almost came to

blows. Luckily she didn't shove me back when I shoved her. She's not

stupid, but she's impatient as the dog had pooped on the kitchen

floor and the she dragged him out back where I was smoking at the

time (I think he pooped right infront of her to piss her off) and

then she came outside and kicked him off the porch and I just

saw 'red'.

Kerrie

> I have a question regarding Nadas or Fadas and pets. My Nada has

never liked

> them. Anything which isn't all about her is just not worth the

effort.

> Anyone else found that to be true?

>

> Marla

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My nada supposedly likes dogs and hates cats. I have two cats of

course even though I love dogs too...and fish and horses and

everything else. But I say supposedly, b/c she kicked our family dog

once off the porch and that is the only time we almost came to

blows. Luckily she didn't shove me back when I shoved her. She's not

stupid, but she's impatient as the dog had pooped on the kitchen

floor and the she dragged him out back where I was smoking at the

time (I think he pooped right infront of her to piss her off) and

then she came outside and kicked him off the porch and I just

saw 'red'.

Kerrie

> I have a question regarding Nadas or Fadas and pets. My Nada has

never liked

> them. Anything which isn't all about her is just not worth the

effort.

> Anyone else found that to be true?

>

> Marla

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/3/04 2:24:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, psm568@...

writes:

Is this Narcissism? Physical abuse is included in that? Or is that BPD?

In MHO, pick one, or all three. Carol

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/3/04 2:39:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,

psyprof@... writes:

No, it really works. It was a very useful piece of information.

Maybe she learned it from my g'ma (HER mother)? Its nice when

useful info like that is passed down from one generation to the

next. I think she taught me something else that was useful, too,

but I can't remember right now what it was.

- Edith

Ok...but it wouldn't have occured to me to put two chemicals that boil

together on a burn...am sticking to cold water...unless I get really 'trusting'

of

nadaremedies some night making eggs. My nada put butter on burns, which we now

know holds in the heat. Carol

[Guest guest]

Kerrie wrote:

> Best wishes Hope. I like your name and so maybe your nada did do

> something good afterall w/giving you a name like that. You may be

> the 'hope' that the cycle is broken- that the buck stops here- that

> she refuses to do herself. Good luck.

> Kerrie

LOL, I am still processing all the thoughts on this thread, but I

gotta tell you - " Hope " is the name I picked for myself on this

list!!! Even that was something *I* did for me and not nada getting

it right, haha. My real name is one I love but it is a jawbreaker,

nobody can say it or spell it and the story of why my " parents " chose

it for me is a doozy.

hahaha

[Guest guest]

Yea, these cherished memories of MOTHER.

<eyes crossed>

- Edith

smhtrain2 wrote:

> OMG! I finally remembered something good about nada. She taught me

> how to iron my father's handkerchiefs. I remember being so proud

> that I could do it. It was a good moment between us.

>

> Sylvia

>

>

>

>>Hmmm, something good about my nada. OK...

>>

>>My nada taught me that when I burned mySelf when cooking eggs or

>>warming 's Anything Soup on the stove to put baking soda

>>and vinegar on the burn.

>>

>>I guess it was because when she heard me cry from pain she

>>wanted to be the one that was reponsible for my tears.

>>

>>- Edith

>>WTO List Manager & Gal Friday, WelcomeToOz Family of NonBP Lists

[Guest guest]

Hi Hope and All:

When I read this subject line " something good about nada "

I didn't even want to read the post!! LOL That's how *I* feel

about finding " good " things about Nada!

It's funny -- for years and years and years I would only see

the good Nada did -- and I blamed myself for our bad

relationship! Just like Dish Rag Dad had trained me to do!

Between the ages of 12 and 25 all I could see was the Bad!

(there was plenty of bad to see!)

Then... I was dating an italian man, who had a very close

and affectionate family -- and suddenly I wanted that too!

So, I started trying to get that closeness, affection, love,

loyalty, etc. that I saw in this man's family.

For 10 years I tried and tried and tried, hitting my head

against a brick wall. Sometimes Nada would be nice, most

times she was totally CRUEL!

Finally, when I got good therapy when I was 35 my therapist

started wanting to hear what was WRONG with Nada!

The reason? I had so much anger and hate toward her --

and I had BURIED all the reasons for it! I couldn NOT even

remember WHY I was so angry, and WHY I had so much pain and

yes, even hate!

I even thought (and the therapist wondered) that I might have

been sexually abused or something in the past -- because the

reasons for the anger and hate were so buried.

Slowly it became evident that my reasons for anger and hate

were JUSTIFIED! Her constant raging put me into a state

of " shell shock " as a child that I still suffer from!

Her constant demeaning, criticizing, insults, and verbal

assaults have had lasting damaging effects!

Even in the PRESENT she still does it! I am being

wounded almost every time I have anything to do with her.

Since I have such vivid memories of my childhood, my

therapist determined that no, I was not molested as a child,

and the treatment Nada gave me was sufficient for all my

anger, hurt and intense dislike!

Yes.... my therapist did encourage me to find a FEW good

things about Nada. I had a roof over my head, I had heat

in the house (didn't freeze to death), she sent me to

school and there I had some good teachers. A few good

things.

Then she encouraged me to find OTHER good people in my

life -- she asked What WOMEN in particular do I think were

good role models to me. She was very happy when I finally

remembered a few -- one was a girl scout leader who was

highly intelligent, had a large family, was very down to

earth, didn't care about having a messing house, and was

kind, loving, giving, and very, very intelligent!

So.... there is SOME justification, I suppose, for picking

out a FEW good things about Nada maybe....

but I DO NOT think that alone is going to " set you free "

and.... maybe you should consider finding a different

therapist. Maybe someone who understands what BPD's are

really like -- and can understand the frustration we

KO's have!

P.S. There was a co-worker in the past that I felt the

same way about that you feel about Nada. I was afraid I

would run into her, etc. The reason I was so preoccupied

with NOT wanting to see her, was because I had been soooo

angry about allowing her to abuse me! This co-worker

had abused me for about a year, and I put up with it, because

my boss ASKED me to put up with it!!! I was angry that I

had never confronted her! So... I wanted to confront her!

I wanted to yell at her! I was afraid of my own anger.

Could this be why some people might be afraid to run into Nada?

> I suspect so. What do you think?

>

> Hugs, Barb

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My nada likes animals (they have 2 dogs, both of which I hand raised

from pups) and a kitty, but only when they do what she wants them to

do. She's such a hypocrite.. like her father. If they aren't clean,

well behaved, and just as she likes them, she wants nothing to do

with them. Go Figure.

- L.

> > I have a question regarding Nadas or Fadas and pets. My Nada

has

> never liked

> > them. Anything which isn't all about her is just not worth the

> effort.

> > Anyone else found that to be true?

> >

> > Marla

> >

> >

> >