Re: Wanting to be a person - Dan

[Guest guest]

Dan,

Yes. You seem to be more in touch with your feelings of " non-

personess " than I. I haven't really " logically " realized I felt that

way.

Interesting that I used to have this " I'm a bad person " voice come

out of me - or say that inside of me - from time to time. I have

worked with that and not heard it for quite sometime.

I was actually shcoked to hear myself say " I want to be a person. " " I

want to count too " made " logical " sense to me. But " I want to be a

person " seemed so odd for me to say. I thought I WAS a person. But

there must be other feelings going on in a different level. Or

perhaps I feel like a person - but allow my " personhood " to be

invalidated...my " personhood " depends on how someone else sees me.

And the guy person didn't " treat " me as a non-person in the email. He

also DID validate me - and thank me for my friendship, and caring,

and love, etc. etc. etc. But somehow I felt " not good enough. " -

probably because in hearing that someone else was " good enough " for

him to take down the walls - that put me in the " not good enough "

category...or the category of " non-persons " Non-person= person who is

not " good enough. "

I don't know. I might be over analyzing it. I am still puzzled that I

felt like such a non-person...and that I even said that. It's not so

much that he " made " me feel that way - as it tapped into feelings I

already had. (I think) But when coupled with my experience of just

declaring " I EXIST " over and over a few weeks ago being so profound

to me... I guess I have some things to work on at a very deep level.

Both incidents have puzzled me about me. But the part in the book

about children raised in dysfunctional patterns growing up believing

that everything that happens to them is in some way their fault

because their very existence has caused difficulty for others - might

well be a piece of the puzzle.

Free

> Free, this business of " I want to be a person... " really speaks to

> me. I have used the same words many times. It is central to my

> feelings around BIID (body integrity identity disorder). Somehow

at

> a very young age I learned that I was not a person, and made up the

> idea that as a disabled person I would be a person. Not too

> logical, but it is not obvious how to replace an idea that I have

> lived with all my life.

>

> Descartes' formulation " I think, therefore I am " doesn't help me.

> The inner voice says " You think, but you don't feel, therefore you

> are a machine " . I think I would even welcome a certain amount of

> stump or phantom limb pain as a reminder that I exist.

>

> I read a book about how politicians stir people up to go to war. A

> key step is depersonalizing the enemy. This is what our BPD parent

> has done to us. This is why I felt so panicked when the US

> President, even before he was elected, talked in terms that named

> enemies and depersonalized them.

>

> - Dan

[Guest guest]

Free,

It is interesting that you used to have this " I'm a bad person "

voice. When I look back, I used to hear that one much more than the

non-person one. Sometimes it would even come out of my mouth if I

wasn't careful. " Bad " . " Die, pig, die " . " What an idiot " .

I think the non-person thought came to the fore as I tried to escape

the bad-person thought. Maybe I have to deconstruct myself before I

can reconstruct myself.

- Dan

[Guest guest]

Dan,

I never knew of the voice until this past year...but I think it has

been there all along. I wasn't aware it was in my head until it came

out of my mouth really. It was one of those things I said sometimes

that just by-passed my brain and came out...

That was one of the things the guy person used to get mad at me for -

saying " I'm a bad person. " Oddly enough (or not) when he yelled at

me or hung up on me for saying that - it just made it worse - not

better. It's kind of hard to shift to feeling like a " good person "

by hating the " bad person " more.

But it seems to be one of those fragmented parts of me that has not

grown up. It just showed up one day and started talking.

The non-person thing was different still....and yes.. with me too -

the " non-person " thing came out right about when I was trying to

work on the " bad person " thing.

Hmmmm... I wonder if you get the bad person message enough... and

then try to declare that you are NOT bad.. if you slide into " non-

personhood " - since that which gave you the " right " to call yourself

a person (though " bad " ) has been rescinded. Kind of like renouncing

your right to the throne or something.

I will have to say you amputation wish is making a lot more sense to

me now. Since you DID form an image inside of you at a young age of

how you could be a " good person " - it would make perfect sense to

cling to that image.

If the choices seem to be a.) good person b.) bad person c.) non-

person - legs don't even seem all that important (unless they are in

the way).

Free (reclaiming her body parts anyway - just in case she needs them

some day).

> Free,

>

> It is interesting that you used to have this " I'm a bad person "

> voice. When I look back, I used to hear that one much more than

the

> non-person one. Sometimes it would even come out of my mouth if I

> wasn't careful. " Bad " . " Die, pig, die " . " What an idiot " .

>

> I think the non-person thought came to the fore as I tried to

escape

> the bad-person thought. Maybe I have to deconstruct myself before

I

> can reconstruct myself.

>

> - Dan

[Guest guest]

Hi Dan,

Interesting that you found being a 'bad person' the prerequisite to being a

'non person'. Peck noted that the 'bad person' self identity is evil projected

onto children by evil parents; causing a psychological 'revulsion' similar to

the 'historical revulsion for lepers and amputees'.

Carol

In a message dated 4/23/04 11:47:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

danc19fr@... writes:

Free,

It is interesting that you used to have this " I'm a bad person "

voice. When I look back, I used to hear that one much more than the

non-person one. Sometimes it would even come out of my mouth if I

wasn't careful. " Bad " . " Die, pig, die " . " What an idiot " .

I think the non-person thought came to the fore as I tried to escape

the bad-person thought. Maybe I have to deconstruct myself before I

can reconstruct myself.

- Dan

[Guest guest]

Hi Dan,

Interesting that you found being a 'bad person' the prerequisite to being a

'non person'. Peck noted that the 'bad person' self identity is evil projected

onto children by evil parents; causing a psychological 'revulsion' similar to

the 'historical revulsion for lepers and amputees'.

Carol

In a message dated 4/23/04 11:47:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

danc19fr@... writes:

Free,

It is interesting that you used to have this " I'm a bad person "

voice. When I look back, I used to hear that one much more than the

non-person one. Sometimes it would even come out of my mouth if I

wasn't careful. " Bad " . " Die, pig, die " . " What an idiot " .

I think the non-person thought came to the fore as I tried to escape

the bad-person thought. Maybe I have to deconstruct myself before I

can reconstruct myself.

- Dan

[Guest guest]

<< Interesting that you found being a 'bad person' the prerequisite

to being a 'non person'. Peck noted that the 'bad person' self

identity is evil projected onto children by evil parents; causing a

psychological 'revulsion' similar to the 'historical revulsion for

lepers and amputees'. >>

Carol, that is an eye-opener. I wouldn't say that being a " bad

person " is a prerequesite to being a " non-person " . It is more like

if I try to take away " bad person " there is nothing left.

I know this doesn't make theological sense by my beliefs or anyone

else's, but when I think of dying with two legs still on me I am

filled with dread. I see a black hole leading to the oblivion that

Nada promised me. If I die with one leg on me, I have paid the price

to become human, and salvation is only granted to humans.

" Historical revulsion for lepers and amputees. " Hmmm. I have often

thought of myself as a leper. I am embracing the revulsion so I can

embrace something about me.

I feel the cold breath of a Dementor (from Harry Potter) on my neck.

Inside the faceless cowl is Nada.

- Dan

[Guest guest]

<< Interesting that you found being a 'bad person' the prerequisite

to being a 'non person'. Peck noted that the 'bad person' self

identity is evil projected onto children by evil parents; causing a

psychological 'revulsion' similar to the 'historical revulsion for

lepers and amputees'. >>

Carol, that is an eye-opener. I wouldn't say that being a " bad

person " is a prerequesite to being a " non-person " . It is more like

if I try to take away " bad person " there is nothing left.

I know this doesn't make theological sense by my beliefs or anyone

else's, but when I think of dying with two legs still on me I am

filled with dread. I see a black hole leading to the oblivion that

Nada promised me. If I die with one leg on me, I have paid the price

to become human, and salvation is only granted to humans.

" Historical revulsion for lepers and amputees. " Hmmm. I have often

thought of myself as a leper. I am embracing the revulsion so I can

embrace something about me.

I feel the cold breath of a Dementor (from Harry Potter) on my neck.

Inside the faceless cowl is Nada.

- Dan