Re: Easter Connundrum

[Guest guest]

Hi Charlie,

Yep, it is going to cost; are you ready? Easter is only one of the

occasions; there are events and opportunities to escape throughout the year.

I'm 54, 30 years into this journey toward 'Edith's lamppost', the light

amidst darkness; don't know how old you are or how many years you have struggled

with the huge, but frequently inevitable, step of saying no to nada -about

something-. I can only share my experience with a histrionic-witch type nada,

and advise you simply to trust your own instincts, and be in-tune with how

much rejection you are ready to live with.

My rejection has been total since establishing my boundaries with nada; but

the sky didn't fall, I didn't die, and the sun still comes up every day.

The guilt/dred/terror of defying nada, in my own case I believe, was a

result of doing what I knew-thought was 'intellectually' right, before I was

'emotionally' ready to defend my choice to have a choice. Only you know when

your

time is right.

I'm OK today; enforcing No Contact with my parents and siblings. Every now

and then I still need a day or an hour to grieve what I never had; only

thought I had. The 'family' I grew up in is a shadow of some ideal family I

had

dreamed of. I grieve, get up the next day and am grateful for what I DO have

today that is real, and am OK again.

My nada doesn't compromise; and there is no redemption from not allowing her

to act out the 'matriarch' role with my family. I first exited the

ritualistic 'immediate-family-welcome-only-occasions' almost 25 years ago; my

new

(then) husband didn't want to continue/be an audience to/the family drama

every

Sunday/holiday/birthday/aniversary/wedding/vacation/graduation/death in the

family ... nada making hurtful, derogatory remarks while everyone present is

required to cringe quietly and allow her to be 'right.' Sensible people back

down from a BPD ... and just stop attending the dance. In a sense, my

husband rescued me from that knee-jerk lifestyle; the first time I realized

that

there was some other way to live.

There was no defending what I said and did 'to' nada then; simply stated

that I/we wanted to start new traditions of our own, and planned to enjoy

different ways of spending weekends and holidays ... and that my children's

birthdays, etc., would be held at my home, with my children's friends at their

'party' from now on.

What she 'heard' was an attack directed toward her; denying her 'right' to

being a grandmother (manage all family occasions), humiliating her before the

family (implying that HER dinners/parties/arrangements) are not as much fun

for the kids as having their friends from their neighborhood/school attend

their birthday parties ... as opposed to only the grandparents, aunts and

uncles.

And it was Blasphemy! She condemned me to 'hell'; it is after all 'a sin'

to dishonor a parent. I was immediately ostracized from the

'information-channel' that she controls; learn from extended family only later

of any family

news/event/wedding/death/sickness.

And my children 'inherited' my sin. Because she deems me unacceptable, my

children are 'not right'. That was the LAST indefensible wrong she has been

allowed to get close enough to me/my family to commit; I've kept my children

away from her. My kids are awesome, healthy, and totally clueless as to how

to do the 'nada-dance'. Carol

In a message dated 3/23/2005 4:16:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,

charlottehoneychurch@... writes:

Hey KOs,

Hope everyone has been well. I haven't needed to post in awhile,

which for me is a good thing. But something has come up, as it

always will, won't it, if there is a nada in one's life. Nada has

this thing about family gatherings--she always threatens to try to

make it 'just us' instead. Just the immediate family. I decided

last time I was at her house that I would NEVER have a situation

where I was trapped into a meal with just the 5 immediate family

members, ever again. When I do that, nada and my split-good sibling

ALWAYS, repeat, always, use it as a way to twist right back into the

abuse scenario. It is amazing, how talented they are at it. No

matter how I act, they always find a way to make me feel absolutely

terrible, to reinforce the dynamic of my childhood. They are

absolutely obsessed, bpd style, with believing the following

completely untrue things: I was never 'abused'. They are supportive

of me. I am ridiculous and 'defective' somehow. I am hateful and

ungrateful of their 'love'. I have 'departed' from the family for

some mysterious reason, and need to be brought back, 'converted'

somehow. I am loud, fat and obnoxious, and socially awkward and

offensive. I dress and do my hair the way I do only to hurt them.

I am grouchy. I am hypersensitive. I am a non-human, generally

worthless, except that in the public world I am supposed to be Queen

of the Earth, amazingly good at everything, so that everyone can see

how wonderful they were to me. And their every move, gesture, is

made to ridicule and belittle and confuse me. And not one inch of

it is possibly admitted by them. Any confrontation would be

useless, because there is a gang of four of them, and the three

active participants are all geniuses at projecting, turing it around.

Wow--that was longer than I thought it would be! At any rate, I've

decided that these people do not deserve to be at a table alone with

me. Anywhere. Ever. Now, I had already told them I was coming

home for Easter--nada said the whole extended family would be there

for a gathering. Well. She's just now, knowing I've made plans to

go, she's said someone is ill (possibly even dead--she didn't say),

and that it's been cancelled, but she was planning a nice dinner

just for us, how did her food choice sound?? See, I've already got

a doctor's appointment in her hometown Easter Monday, so she knows I

was planning to go.

See, I haven't told my nada she has bpd. I have no family of my

own, and right now despite a good therapist, I don't have the

support mechanisms in place that would allow me to be able to handle

the response to telling her (and the family). So, what I'm trying

to do is 'handle' her. But, you guys know how crafty nadas are.

She is trying her damndest to get me into another trapped-meal

situation. It's the only opportunity she has right now to play out

her pathologies. But I recently promised myself I would NEVER ever

do that again. This is also nada trying to cut me off from the

family. She could very well have made sure to arrange Easter for

everyone to come, and did not.

Okay, I know what I'm going to do--I'm simply not going to go! It's

easy for me to make up a good excuse. She's not going to like it

though. I'm just in so much pain over this. I am so angry w/her

for trying to push this boundary, and making me pay such

consequences, for having a boundary, even though I haven't announced

it--she just KNOWS. Nadas just know.

Well, okay. No way in hell I'm doing it 'her' way. But it is going

to cost me. Nadas are so terrible, making you pay such a price to

be yourself, to be a real human. I'm sure lots of you must be going

through a tough time for the Easter holiday ... Big hugs, my heart

goes out to all kos having a tough time w/this!!

Love

Charlie

[Guest guest]

Charlie,

Wow, I can't believe how pale you look. And you feel very feverish!

Can you make it to the phone to call Nada and tell her how ill you

are? (wink, wink) I wish I could call her for you!

You are right to stay home and protect yourself from Nada if you

don't feel up to her tricks. Stay " home " and then treat yourself to

a movie or a new good book under the covers! And don't forget to

take the phone off the hook!

Di.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Di, I really needed that!! Convert story: you can't believe

how HUGE that pile of work papers is ...

Except for one very wonderful friend, I'm completely alone facing

this situation, and the support of the group means so much. You

guys tend to be the backbone of my reality, the verification of my

humanity. With your help I'm coming to process the truth that it's

not good for me OR nada to let her abuse me the way she wants to.

It's a lose-lose situation, though. Had I gone, she would have made

me feel so awful. Now that I'm not going, she can tell everyone how

ungrateful I am, how I'm not really 'part' of the family, etc.

Lucky for me though, there is another family event the following

week, and I'll be there! So they'll see that her claims are not so

credible.

It is really terrifying to butt heads w/nada's reality. I hate that

it means I have to drop everything, process, regroup and detox for

several hours, every time something like this happens. But it is

certainly better than what I used to do. Not understanding what was

wrong, I used to do what nada asked. I would go to the dinners and

stay at her house. Then after, I would find myself in a severe

depression, sleeping for days and neglecting my obligations. So now

I guess I'm grateful, to lose only a few hours instead of a few

days. I am still pissed at nada though...

ChhC

>

> Charlie,

> Wow, I can't believe how pale you look. And you feel very

feverish!

> Can you make it to the phone to call Nada and tell her how ill you

> are? (wink, wink) I wish I could call her for you!

>

> You are right to stay home and protect yourself from Nada if you

> don't feel up to her tricks. Stay " home " and then treat yourself

to

> a movie or a new good book under the covers! And don't forget to

> take the phone off the hook!

>

> Di.

[Guest guest]

>..... At any rate, I've

> decided that these people do not deserve to be at a table alone

with

> me. Anywhere. Ever.

****Good for you! This is the right attitude to take.

Now, I had already told them I was coming

> home for Easter--nada said the whole extended family would be there

> for a gathering. Well. She's just now, knowing I've made plans to

> go, she's said someone is ill (possibly even dead--she didn't say),

> and that it's been cancelled, but she was planning a nice dinner

> just for us, how did her food choice sound?? See, I've already got

> a doctor's appointment in her hometown Easter Monday, so she knows

I

> was planning to go.

*****There is always the option to change your mind....just because

you said you were coming home doesn't mean that you can't change your

mind....or in this case, change your decision because of a change in

the circumstances.

>

> See, I haven't told my nada she has bpd. I have no family of my

> own, and right now despite a good therapist, I don't have the

> support mechanisms in place that would allow me to be able to

handle

> the response to telling her (and the family).

****I haven't, and don't plan to tell my nada that she has BPD. I

don't think anyone has had success with being the deliverer of this

news. I did tell my sis - but she doesn't seem to be very interested

in understanding the impact of this disorder on our lives.

So, what I'm trying

> to do is 'handle' her. But, you guys know how crafty nadas are.

****What if you thought about it a different way? Trying to handle a

nada may just be engaging in a power struggle. And because we don't

think like a nada, she is sure to one up us eventually. I think the

best way to handle a nada is to make sure you are taking care of

yourself. Then you are expending your energy to make your life

better, not to appease nada.

> She is trying her damndest to get me into another trapped-meal

> situation. It's the only opportunity she has right now to play out

> her pathologies. But I recently promised myself I would NEVER ever

> do that again.

*****Keep your promises to yourself....they are a foundation of

strength and comfort.

This is also nada trying to cut me off from the

> family. She could very well have made sure to arrange Easter for

> everyone to come, and did not.

****Yep - she likes it when she can make people do what she wants.

She feels good about having this kind of control.

>

> Okay, I know what I'm going to do--I'm simply not going to go!

It's

> easy for me to make up a good excuse. She's not going to like it

> though.

*****She doesn't have to like it! (You don't like what she is doing,

and I'll bet she isn't in too much pain over that!) There is no

reason for you to voluntarily go into this situation that is

abusive. Not going is a very good decision!

>I'm just in so much pain over this. I am so angry w/her

> for trying to push this boundary, and making me pay such

> consequences, for having a boundary, even though I haven't

announced

> it--she just KNOWS. Nadas just know.

****Yes, they do. It is part of how they manage in life. They are

very sensitive to changes in the people they are trying to control.

What she knows is that Charlie doesn't want to play her game

anymore. And she is working hard to pull you back into her control.

She also knows (though you may not realize it), that her powers are

limited. That is why she has to use FOG....it hides her limitations

from us and makes us think she has more power than she really does.

>

> Well, okay. No way in hell I'm doing it 'her' way. But it is

going

> to cost me. Nadas are so terrible, making you pay such a price to

> be yourself, to be a real human.

****I think they fear our realness....because that is something that

they know they don't have. I am sorry it is going to cost you....but

I think the cost is worth it, and the alternative also costs too.

>I'm sure lots of you must be going

> through a tough time for the Easter holiday ... Big hugs, my heart

> goes out to all kos having a tough time w/this!!

>

> Love

> Charlie

*****Take care of yourself, and have a peaceful holiday,

Sylvia

[Guest guest]

Charlie,

You know...you're looking a little pale to me. Hmmm, I don't think

you can bear to look at all that food, can you? Maybe you should go

lay down alone somewhere and nap a couple of hours, behind a locked

door. Maybe that will do the trick. HA!

Seriously, you gotta do what you gotta do, girl. Nada's are crafty.

And yours is being very naughty! Good luck!

Ivory

[Guest guest]

HAHAHAHAHA! I just hadn't read the follow up emails yet before I

answered. Boy, Ms. Honeychurch, good thing you are staying home.

With Dr. Di's and Dr. Ivory's diagnoses you might have fainted at the

table! Well I'm sorry about all those piles of work! (Wink.) Have a

nice Easter.

Ivory

>

> Charlie,

> Wow, I can't believe how pale you look. And you feel very feverish!

> Can you make it to the phone to call Nada and tell her how ill you

> are? (wink, wink) I wish I could call her for you!

>

> You are right to stay home and protect yourself from Nada if you

> don't feel up to her tricks. Stay " home " and then treat yourself to

> a movie or a new good book under the covers! And don't forget to

> take the phone off the hook!

>

> Di.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I want to thank everyone for responding, I really needed these

replies. I hope it's okay to thank everyone at once, so as to limit

the posts, etc. So, thanks Carol--so much of what you said

resonated with me. I hope that in a few years I can begin to put in

place the family you've got around you. Thanks Sylvia, the guardian

angel of this list, in my opinion. Thanks ivory, ha ha! It's so

good to have a laugh about these things.

Just to update you guys on the story, when my nada gets hyper-

senstitive, she completely backs off and 'helps' you reject her. So

she was all, oh, well then maybe you can put off the doctor's

appointment several weeks then. She was trying to appear helpful

but it was also a guise to make me feel bad and unwelcome. I'm not

buying it! She's trying to act like she doesn't give me a hard time

when I'm busy, in a way, but she's also trying to make me feel

terrible for 'rejecting' her. It is all so complicated! And

dramatic.

By the way, Theresa, after your daughter's confirmation, isn't there

some way you can find another church? I think it would be worth the

drive. I don't like the picture of you having to go to services

week after week, with nada sitting across the way.

Thanks again everyone

Poor Charlotte!

> >..... At any rate, I've

> > decided that these people do not deserve to be at a table alone

> with

> > me. Anywhere. Ever.

>

> ****Good for you! This is the right attitude to take.

>

> Now, I had already told them I was coming

> > home for Easter--nada said the whole extended family would be

there

> > for a gathering. Well. She's just now, knowing I've made plans

to

> > go, she's said someone is ill (possibly even dead--she didn't

say),

> > and that it's been cancelled, but she was planning a nice dinner

> > just for us, how did her food choice sound?? See, I've already

got

> > a doctor's appointment in her hometown Easter Monday, so she

knows

> I

> > was planning to go.

>

> *****There is always the option to change your mind....just

because

> you said you were coming home doesn't mean that you can't change

your

> mind....or in this case, change your decision because of a change

in

> the circumstances.

> >

> > See, I haven't told my nada she has bpd. I have no family of my

> > own, and right now despite a good therapist, I don't have the

> > support mechanisms in place that would allow me to be able to

> handle

> > the response to telling her (and the family).

>

> ****I haven't, and don't plan to tell my nada that she has BPD. I

> don't think anyone has had success with being the deliverer of

this

> news. I did tell my sis - but she doesn't seem to be very

interested

> in understanding the impact of this disorder on our lives.

>

> So, what I'm trying

> > to do is 'handle' her. But, you guys know how crafty nadas are.

>

> ****What if you thought about it a different way? Trying to

handle a

> nada may just be engaging in a power struggle. And because we

don't

> think like a nada, she is sure to one up us eventually. I think

the

> best way to handle a nada is to make sure you are taking care of

> yourself. Then you are expending your energy to make your life

> better, not to appease nada.

>

> > She is trying her damndest to get me into another trapped-meal

> > situation. It's the only opportunity she has right now to play

out

> > her pathologies. But I recently promised myself I would NEVER

ever

> > do that again.

>

> *****Keep your promises to yourself....they are a foundation of

> strength and comfort.

>

> This is also nada trying to cut me off from the

> > family. She could very well have made sure to arrange Easter

for

> > everyone to come, and did not.

>

> ****Yep - she likes it when she can make people do what she

wants.

> She feels good about having this kind of control.

> >

> > Okay, I know what I'm going to do--I'm simply not going to go!

> It's

> > easy for me to make up a good excuse. She's not going to like

it

> > though.

>

> *****She doesn't have to like it! (You don't like what she is

doing,

> and I'll bet she isn't in too much pain over that!) There is no

> reason for you to voluntarily go into this situation that is

> abusive. Not going is a very good decision!

>

> >I'm just in so much pain over this. I am so angry w/her

> > for trying to push this boundary, and making me pay such

> > consequences, for having a boundary, even though I haven't

> announced

> > it--she just KNOWS. Nadas just know.

>

> ****Yes, they do. It is part of how they manage in life. They

are

> very sensitive to changes in the people they are trying to

control.

> What she knows is that Charlie doesn't want to play her game

> anymore. And she is working hard to pull you back into her

control.

> She also knows (though you may not realize it), that her powers

are

> limited. That is why she has to use FOG....it hides her

limitations

> from us and makes us think she has more power than she really

does.

> >

> > Well, okay. No way in hell I'm doing it 'her' way. But it is

> going

> > to cost me. Nadas are so terrible, making you pay such a price

to

> > be yourself, to be a real human.

>

> ****I think they fear our realness....because that is something

that

> they know they don't have. I am sorry it is going to cost

you....but

> I think the cost is worth it, and the alternative also costs too.

>

> >I'm sure lots of you must be going

> > through a tough time for the Easter holiday ... Big hugs, my

heart

> > goes out to all kos having a tough time w/this!!

> >

> > Love

> > Charlie

>

> *****Take care of yourself, and have a peaceful holiday,

>

> Sylvia

[Guest guest]

........>

> Just to update you guys on the story, when my nada gets hyper-

> senstitive, she completely backs off and 'helps' you reject her.

So

> she was all, oh, well then maybe you can put off the doctor's

> appointment several weeks then. She was trying to appear helpful

> but it was also a guise to make me feel bad and unwelcome. I'm not

> buying it! She's trying to act like she doesn't give me a hard

time

> when I'm busy, in a way, but she's also trying to make me feel

> terrible for 'rejecting' her. It is all so complicated! And

> dramatic.

****This is exactly what my nada does too! When, after her trying to

FOG me into being with her by saying things like she wants to make up

before its too late, yada yada yada, and I told her I was still not

ready to spend time with her....She said, 'That's okay, you do what

you have to do, it's not important about me'. Just another way for

her to try to make it all about her! If we weren't hurting so much,

it would be so interesting to observe.

Sylvia

P.S. I forgot who posted....but there is a real good 'Easter on your

own tradition with Cadbury eggs!' LOL! Charlie....make sure you do

something special for yourself on Easter, because YOU DESERVE IT!

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Carol,

What a great post you wrote to Charlie!

Nada sent me a card for Easter. I still am vacillating. I know she expects a

visit or a call or flowers or something.

Aah! I hate this.

Love

Ymad

[Guest guest]

Hello Carol,

What a great post you wrote to Charlie!

Nada sent me a card for Easter. I still am vacillating. I know she expects a

visit or a call or flowers or something.

Aah! I hate this.

Love

Ymad