Re: Neuropathophysiologic basis of borderline personality disorder

March 12, 2005

Hi Gerard,

The one cited study was published in the year 2001, and the other in

2003. Consensus in 2005 seems to be that BPD may result from either

genetic or environmental factors, or a combination of both.

In other words, the BP's brain may be mis-wired (ie, genetic/heredity)

influence; and, BPD may result from an invalidating home environment,

childhood abuse, trauma, & etc (ie, environmental factors).

As much as we'd like to know the answers, it really is too soon.

Research studies are only now beginning to shed light on the etiology of

this terrible, complex, mental disorder.

Historically:

1980 - BPD was admitted to the DSM

1989 - Kreisman's book, " I Hate You - Don't Leave Me " appeared

1995 - The first WelcomeToOz lists for NonBPs were started

1998 - " Stop Walking On Eggshells " was first published

2000 - UBM by Lawson was published

2002 - SWOE Workbook was published

2003 - Roth & Friedman's book, " Surviving A Borderline Parent "

was published

BPs, NonBPs and KOs need to have patience while reading, studying, and

learning about everything that is happening research-wise related to

BPD. And, as the big BPD picture-puzzle slowly comes together, the

knowledge the various studies are yielding can be empowering.

- Edith

gerard652002 wrote:

> The conclusion in the post #36430 of Edith, see below, shows that

> these mental health professionals/researchers assume there is a

> Neuropathophysiologic Basis of the borderline personality disorder.

>

> In an other scientific article (Am J Psychiatry 2001; 158:775-782) is

> the conclusion that the for borderline patients characteristic

> impulsiveness is related to a Low 5-HT synthesis capacity in

> corticostriatal pathways. So also a neuropathophysiologic basis of

> borderline personality disorder.

>

> This finding opens a whole new perspective on the etiology of the bp-

> disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

> Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms, (according

> mental health professionals in my country).

>

> Gerard

>

>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

>

> cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=14643096 & dopt=Abstract

>

>>or

>>http://tinyurl.com/565sv

>>

>>Biol Psychiatry. 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93.

>>

>> " Amygdala hyperreactivity in borderline personality disorder:

>>implications for emotional dysregulation "

>>

>>Donegan NH, Sanislow CA, Blumberg HP, Fulbright RK, Lacadie C,

>>Skudlarski P, Gore JC, Olson IR, McGlashan TH, Wexler BE.

>>

>>Department of Psychiatry, Yale University School of Medicine, New

>

> Haven,

>

>>Connecticut 06520-8098, USA.

>>

>>BACKGROUND: Disturbed interpersonal relations and emotional

>>dysregulation are fundamental aspects of borderline personality

>

> disorder

>

>>(BPD). The amygdala plays important roles in modulating vigilance

>

> and

>

>>generating negative emotional states and is often abnormally

>

> reactive in

>

>>disorders of mood and emotion. The aim of this study was to assess

>>amygdala reactivity in BPD patients relative to normal control

>

> subjects.

>

>>We hypothesized that amygdala hyperreactivity contributes to

>>hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and disturbed interpersonal

>>relations in BPD.

>>

>>METHODS: Using functional magnetic resonance imaging, we examined

>

> neural

>

>>responses to 20-sec blocks of neutral, happy, sad, and fearful

>

> facial

>

>>expression (or a fixation point) in 15 BPD and 15 normal control

>>subjects. The DSM IV-diagnosed BPD patients and the normal control

>>subjects were assessed by a clinical research team in a medical

>

> school

>

>>psychiatry department.

>>

>>RESULTS: Borderline patients showed significantly greater left

>

> amygdala

>

>>activation to the facial expressions of emotion (vs. a fixation

>

> point)

>

>>compared with normal control subjects. Post-scan debriefing revealed

>>that some borderline patients had difficulty disambiguating neutral

>>faces or found them threatening.

>>

>>CONCLUSIONS: Pictures of human emotional expressions elicit robust

>>differences in amygdala activation levels in borderline patients,

>>compared with normal control subjects, and can be used as probes to

>>study the neuropathophysiologic basis of borderline personality

>

> disorder.

>

>>PMID: 14643096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

March 12, 2005

Hi Gerard,

The one cited study was published in the year 2001, and the other in

2003. Consensus in 2005 seems to be that BPD may result from either

genetic or environmental factors, or a combination of both.

In other words, the BP's brain may be mis-wired (ie, genetic/heredity)

influence; and, BPD may result from an invalidating home environment,

childhood abuse, trauma, & etc (ie, environmental factors).

As much as we'd like to know the answers, it really is too soon.

Research studies are only now beginning to shed light on the etiology of

this terrible, complex, mental disorder.

Historically:

1980 - BPD was admitted to the DSM

1989 - Kreisman's book, " I Hate You - Don't Leave Me " appeared

1995 - The first WelcomeToOz lists for NonBPs were started

1998 - " Stop Walking On Eggshells " was first published

2000 - UBM by Lawson was published

2002 - SWOE Workbook was published

2003 - Roth & Friedman's book, " Surviving A Borderline Parent "

was published

BPs, NonBPs and KOs need to have patience while reading, studying, and

learning about everything that is happening research-wise related to

BPD. And, as the big BPD picture-puzzle slowly comes together, the

knowledge the various studies are yielding can be empowering.

- Edith

gerard652002 wrote:

> The conclusion in the post #36430 of Edith, see below, shows that

> these mental health professionals/researchers assume there is a

> Neuropathophysiologic Basis of the borderline personality disorder.

>

> In an other scientific article (Am J Psychiatry 2001; 158:775-782) is

> the conclusion that the for borderline patients characteristic

> impulsiveness is related to a Low 5-HT synthesis capacity in

> corticostriatal pathways. So also a neuropathophysiologic basis of

> borderline personality disorder.

>

> This finding opens a whole new perspective on the etiology of the bp-

> disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

> Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms, (according

> mental health professionals in my country).

>

> Gerard

>

>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

>

> cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=14643096 & dopt=Abstract

>

>>or

>>http://tinyurl.com/565sv

>>

>>Biol Psychiatry. 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93.

>>

>> " Amygdala hyperreactivity in borderline personality disorder:

>>implications for emotional dysregulation "

>>

>>Donegan NH, Sanislow CA, Blumberg HP, Fulbright RK, Lacadie C,

>>Skudlarski P, Gore JC, Olson IR, McGlashan TH, Wexler BE.

>>

>>Department of Psychiatry, Yale University School of Medicine, New

>

> Haven,

>

>>Connecticut 06520-8098, USA.

>>

>>BACKGROUND: Disturbed interpersonal relations and emotional

>>dysregulation are fundamental aspects of borderline personality

>

> disorder

>

>>(BPD). The amygdala plays important roles in modulating vigilance

>

> and

>

>>generating negative emotional states and is often abnormally

>

> reactive in

>

>>disorders of mood and emotion. The aim of this study was to assess

>>amygdala reactivity in BPD patients relative to normal control

>

> subjects.

>

>>We hypothesized that amygdala hyperreactivity contributes to

>>hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and disturbed interpersonal

>>relations in BPD.

>>

>>METHODS: Using functional magnetic resonance imaging, we examined

>

> neural

>

>>responses to 20-sec blocks of neutral, happy, sad, and fearful

>

> facial

>

>>expression (or a fixation point) in 15 BPD and 15 normal control

>>subjects. The DSM IV-diagnosed BPD patients and the normal control

>>subjects were assessed by a clinical research team in a medical

>

> school

>

>>psychiatry department.

>>

>>RESULTS: Borderline patients showed significantly greater left

>

> amygdala

>

>>activation to the facial expressions of emotion (vs. a fixation

>

> point)

>

>>compared with normal control subjects. Post-scan debriefing revealed

>>that some borderline patients had difficulty disambiguating neutral

>>faces or found them threatening.

>>

>>CONCLUSIONS: Pictures of human emotional expressions elicit robust

>>differences in amygdala activation levels in borderline patients,

>>compared with normal control subjects, and can be used as probes to

>>study the neuropathophysiologic basis of borderline personality

>

> disorder.

>

>>PMID: 14643096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

March 12, 2005

I'll apologize ahead of time but, what its just dumb luck that some

astonishingly high precentage of these folks Do have abuse in their

background? Sorry but I think this is western medicine running

itself amuck yet again. The abuse may change the chemistry or like

alcholism you can go back to a defective gene but something has to

trigger the defective gene (in my oinion). Hey if they can come up

with a chemical to make these folks " right " bless them but ignoring

the abuse is not a great idea again in my opinion.

Larry

> This finding opens a whole new perspective on the etiology of the

bp-

> disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

> Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms, (according

> mental health professionals in my country).

>

> Gerard

March 12, 2005

I'll apologize ahead of time but, what its just dumb luck that some

astonishingly high precentage of these folks Do have abuse in their

background? Sorry but I think this is western medicine running

itself amuck yet again. The abuse may change the chemistry or like

alcholism you can go back to a defective gene but something has to

trigger the defective gene (in my oinion). Hey if they can come up

with a chemical to make these folks " right " bless them but ignoring

the abuse is not a great idea again in my opinion.

Larry

> This finding opens a whole new perspective on the etiology of the

bp-

> disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

> Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms, (according

> mental health professionals in my country).

>

> Gerard

March 12, 2005

Unfortunately I guess, I have a degree in statistics, and I checked

more than once to make sure I was not crazy,but yep, I read there were

15 people in the BPD group and 15 in the normal group.

Uhh - sorry, but that is a very, very, miniscule sample. You can't

make ANY kind of generalization from that. A study like that could

only give you a possible idea to do a bigger study, but nope - bad

practice to make generalizations from something like this. Of

course this is why I hate reading studies in the psych field - many of

them are done quite sloppily. It's bad enough when you come across it

in the hard science field. If you ask me, their conclusions section

does not make complete sense. Of course neither does the Results,

really. Their methods section kind of sucks. I think a 9th grader

could do better on that one, even. Do these people really have a

degree in something?

Sorry 'bout that - just really irks me because I know sorry research

when I see it and I know people tend to make generalizations about

stuff from this kind of next to garbage and it's even worse when they

report junk on the news and so everyone thinks it's true just because

it's on the news.

I think if this were to be done halway properly they need to get

actual neurologists involved.

Theresa

>

> The conclusion in the post #36430 of Edith, see below, shows that

> these mental health professionals/researchers assume there is a

> Neuropathophysiologic Basis of the borderline personality disorder.

>

> In an other scientific article (Am J Psychiatry 2001; 158:775-782) is

> the conclusion that the for borderline patients characteristic

> impulsiveness is related to a Low 5-HT synthesis capacity in

> corticostriatal pathways. So also a neuropathophysiologic basis of

> borderline personality disorder.

>

> This finding opens a whole new perspective on the etiology of the bp-

> disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

> Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms, (according

> mental health professionals in my country).

>

> Gerard

>

> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=14643096 & dopt=Abstract

> > or

> > http://tinyurl.com/565sv

> >

> > Biol Psychiatry. 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93.

> >

> > " Amygdala hyperreactivity in borderline personality disorder:

> > implications for emotional dysregulation "

> >

> > Donegan NH, Sanislow CA, Blumberg HP, Fulbright RK, Lacadie C,

> > Skudlarski P, Gore JC, Olson IR, McGlashan TH, Wexler BE.

> >

> > Department of Psychiatry, Yale University School of Medicine, New

> Haven,

> > Connecticut 06520-8098, USA.

> >

> > BACKGROUND: Disturbed interpersonal relations and emotional

> > dysregulation are fundamental aspects of borderline personality

> disorder

> > (BPD). The amygdala plays important roles in modulating vigilance

> and

> > generating negative emotional states and is often abnormally

> reactive in

> > disorders of mood and emotion. The aim of this study was to assess

> > amygdala reactivity in BPD patients relative to normal control

> subjects.

> > We hypothesized that amygdala hyperreactivity contributes to

> > hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and disturbed interpersonal

> > relations in BPD.

> >

> > METHODS: Using functional magnetic resonance imaging, we examined

> neural

> > responses to 20-sec blocks of neutral, happy, sad, and fearful

> facial

> > expression (or a fixation point) in 15 BPD and 15 normal control

> > subjects. The DSM IV-diagnosed BPD patients and the normal control

> > subjects were assessed by a clinical research team in a medical

> school

> > psychiatry department.

> >

> > RESULTS: Borderline patients showed significantly greater left

> amygdala

> > activation to the facial expressions of emotion (vs. a fixation

> point)

> > compared with normal control subjects. Post-scan debriefing revealed

> > that some borderline patients had difficulty disambiguating neutral

> > faces or found them threatening.

> >

> > CONCLUSIONS: Pictures of human emotional expressions elicit robust

> > differences in amygdala activation levels in borderline patients,

> > compared with normal control subjects, and can be used as probes to

> > study the neuropathophysiologic basis of borderline personality

> disorder.

> >

> > PMID: 14643096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

> Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

March 13, 2005

Hi Larry,

There is scientific research done towards abuse of bp's in their

background, namely

'Memories of abuse in borderline patients: True or false ? '

(1995, J. Paris, Harvard Review of Psychiatry, 3, 10-17.)

Paris summerizes the results as follow:

1/3 make no mention of traumatic antecedents

1/3 report annoying events in their youth of relative lenient

character

1/3 report very radical experiences in their youth

The query is: can the stories of bp's about their youth fully be

trusted ? The characteric feature pre-eminently by bp's is their

impulsivity. It cannot be dismissed that bp's also set about it the

impulsive way when they have to answer queries about their youth.

That's why the following advice of Paris to therapists who treat

bp's: 'Given the problems concerning the validity of repressed

memories in BPD, therapists would be best advised to treat recovered

memories of abuse with respectful skepticism.'

If this cautiously starting point do hold for the clinic, than do

hold it a fortiori/all the more reason for KO's and....the courtroom !

Gerard

>

> I'll apologize ahead of time but, what its just dumb luck that some

> astonishingly high precentage of these folks Do have abuse in their

> background? Sorry but I think this is western medicine running

> itself amuck yet again. The abuse may change the chemistry or like

> alcholism you can go back to a defective gene but something has to

> trigger the defective gene (in my oinion). Hey if they can come up

> with a chemical to make these folks " right " bless them but ignoring

> the abuse is not a great idea again in my opinion.

>

> Larry

>

> > This finding opens a whole new perspective on the etiology of the

> bp-

> > disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

> > Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms, (according

> > mental health professionals in my country).

> >

> > Gerard

March 13, 2005

Thanks for posting. I am not a big fan of Roseaane but, she had a

comment on the question, have you been sexually abused. Her

contention which, I sadly subscribe to is: Yes or, I don't know! I

concur that anything coming out of the mouth of a BP at BEST is

suspect. Secondly with repressed memories its ANYBODY's guess. I

can tell you from my own PERSONAL exoperience that just Friday I had

new information come up relative to my abuse. There are some on here

suggesting (?) " programming " and mind control. I am new enough here

to not know the context of how that is being refferenced. Do they

mean conscious mind screwing with true programing or is that just a

consequence of a BP's beahvior? I don't know and I am not suggesing a

judgement on my part either way. For MY experience I had DELIBERATE

mind manipulation AND programming at the hands of some VERY able

people via a cult while I was a toddler. Some of it multiple levels

deep which came to the surface Friady. So questionaires in my opinion

might not even be worth the paper they are wirtten on. I just don't

subscribe to theories that people get " invloved " in seriously

dysfunctional behavior(s) because mom did or didn't make them eat

brocolli one night for dinner.

I don't subscribe to theories that people make bad choices or happen

to be this way. I think people for the most part are born good (with

obvious exceptions of crack babies etc) and that they didn't wake up

when they were 4 and go I can screw up my life or someone else's by

drinking too much or whatever. There is just way to much " dumb luck "

that the reported abuse levels in people with BPD is way to high.

And even if you don't buy into that look at the behaviors they engage

in and that tends to roll back to LOGICAL forms of abuse that

destroyed those boundaries. It strikes me that in the very brief time

I have been on the BP lists that the level of extra sexual

relationships is dispraportinate to the general population.

I have no clue as to why these things go the way they do but it

strikes me that society is having a tough time owning that they are

VERY seriously abusing their children. As has already been posted -

the: this will hurt you more than it will be but its for your own

good, just ain't cutting it.

Its ABUSE the human form can't deal with it and sadly, very sadly (I

am in one of my more compassionate moments) some folks adaption is

BPD.

Hey its just one more victims opinion, that GLADLY didn't compensate

with BPD!

Larry

> Hi Larry,

>

> There is scientific research done towards abuse of bp's in their

> background, namely

> 'Memories of abuse in borderline patients: True or false ? '

> (1995, J. Paris, Harvard Review of Psychiatry, 3, 10-17.)

> Paris summerizes the results as follow:

> 1/3 make no mention of traumatic antecedents

> 1/3 report annoying events in their youth of relative lenient

> character

> 1/3 report very radical experiences in their youth

>

> The query is: can the stories of bp's about their youth fully be

> trusted ? The characteric feature pre-eminently by bp's is their

> impulsivity. It cannot be dismissed that bp's also set about it the

> impulsive way when they have to answer queries about their youth.

> That's why the following advice of Paris to therapists who treat

> bp's: 'Given the problems concerning the validity of repressed

> memories in BPD, therapists would be best advised to treat

recovered

> memories of abuse with respectful skepticism.'

> If this cautiously starting point do hold for the clinic, than do

> hold it a fortiori/all the more reason for KO's and....the

courtroom !

>

> Gerard

>

> >

> > I'll apologize ahead of time but, what its just dumb luck that

some

> > astonishingly high precentage of these folks Do have abuse in

their

> > background? Sorry but I think this is western medicine running

> > itself amuck yet again. The abuse may change the chemistry or

like

> > alcholism you can go back to a defective gene but something has

to

> > trigger the defective gene (in my oinion). Hey if they can come

up

> > with a chemical to make these folks " right " bless them but

ignoring

> > the abuse is not a great idea again in my opinion.

> >

> > Larry

> >

> > > This finding opens a whole new perspective on the etiology of

the

> > bp-

> > > disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

> > > Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms,

(according

> > > mental health professionals in my country).

> > >

> > > Gerard

March 15, 2005

Hi Theresa,

I think your conclusion is not fair. We have to realize that the

Methods that the -biological- psychiatrists/researchers has used in

this case was 'functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging',(MRI-scan). MRI

is an important research instrument. With MRI it is possible to make

an image of the brain of living humans. In that manner you can get an

striking clear image of the living brain. The MRI-scan is through

that very suitable to trace distinct illnesses in the brain.

Until recently it has not been possible to test hypothesis in the

brains of living humans. MRI is very expensive.

The number of 15 BP's and 15 Nonbp's is, I think, acceptable in

consideration to the mentioned RESULTS and the CONCLUSIONS of this

research. A scientist have not to search further for the same outcome

he already has.

Gerard

> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=14643096 & dopt=Abstract

> > > or

> > > http://tinyurl.com/565sv

> > >

> > > Biol Psychiatry. 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93.

> > >

> > > " Amygdala hyperreactivity in borderline personality disorder:

> > > implications for emotional dysregulation "

> > >

> > > Donegan NH, Sanislow CA, Blumberg HP, Fulbright RK, Lacadie C,

> > > Skudlarski P, Gore JC, Olson IR, McGlashan TH, Wexler BE.

> > >

> > > Department of Psychiatry, Yale University School of Medicine,

New

> > Haven,

> > > Connecticut 06520-8098, USA.

> > >

> > > BACKGROUND: Disturbed interpersonal relations and emotional

> > > dysregulation are fundamental aspects of borderline personality

> > disorder

> > > (BPD). The amygdala plays important roles in modulating

vigilance

> > and

> > > generating negative emotional states and is often abnormally

> > reactive in

> > > disorders of mood and emotion. The aim of this study was to

assess

> > > amygdala reactivity in BPD patients relative to normal control

> > subjects.

> > > We hypothesized that amygdala hyperreactivity contributes to

> > > hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and disturbed

interpersonal

> > > relations in BPD.

> > >

> > > METHODS: Using functional magnetic resonance imaging, we

examined

> > neural

> > > responses to 20-sec blocks of neutral, happy, sad, and fearful

> > facial

> > > expression (or a fixation point) in 15 BPD and 15 normal control

> > > subjects. The DSM IV-diagnosed BPD patients and the normal

control

> > > subjects were assessed by a clinical research team in a medical

> > school

> > > psychiatry department.

> > >

> > > RESULTS: Borderline patients showed significantly greater left

> > amygdala

> > > activation to the facial expressions of emotion (vs. a fixation

> > point)

> > > compared with normal control subjects. Post-scan debriefing

revealed

> > > that some borderline patients had difficulty disambiguating

neutral

> > > faces or found them threatening.

> > >

> > > CONCLUSIONS: Pictures of human emotional expressions elicit

robust

> > > differences in amygdala activation levels in borderline

patients,

> > > compared with normal control subjects, and can be used as

probes to

> > > study the neuropathophysiologic basis of borderline personality

> > disorder.

> > >

> > > PMID: 14643096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

> >

> > Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> > " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered

via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go

to:

> > http://www.BPDCentral.com

> >

March 15, 2005

My point was just that they should not sound so much like they are

generalizing the results with such a small sample size. To me, it

sounded like they were a little too conclusive. In the results when

they say " significantly greater " what does that mean? They don't say.

Significantly greater by how much? With the small sample size the

power of the study is not going to be strong enough to make a

statistical significance so that is why I wonder why they say

significantly greater. What is their p value? What is the power of

the study? How do they determine significance? HOw did they even

determine their sample size? This kind of thing needs to be

mentioned at least in their methods section. Again, this kind of

study can only point to further research on a much larger scale as in

this study can only be used to form a hypothesis. It cannot at all be

used as a cause-effect relationship. Statistical laws are

unfortunately not empathitic to the fact that MRIs and such tests are

very expensive. To have an appropriate power of a study, a sample

size has to be appropriate, so this type of study does need to be done

on a much larger scale to show there in fact the result the researches

saw in the smaller study and not due to chance or some confound

factors or something else .

When you say, " A scientist have not to search further for the same

outcome he already has, " that's not what you would call good

scientific method. In the past things have been held as scientific

theory for years and years and then several years down the road

someone proved it wrong. Look at how long spontaneous generation

lasted, for instance.

Theresa

>

> Hi Theresa,

>

> I think your conclusion is not fair. We have to realize that the

> Methods that the -biological- psychiatrists/researchers has used in

> this case was 'functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging',(MRI-scan). MRI

> is an important research instrument. With MRI it is possible to make

> an image of the brain of living humans. In that manner you can get an

> striking clear image of the living brain. The MRI-scan is through

> that very suitable to trace distinct illnesses in the brain.

> Until recently it has not been possible to test hypothesis in the

> brains of living humans. MRI is very expensive.

>

> The number of 15 BP's and 15 Nonbp's is, I think, acceptable in

> consideration to the mentioned RESULTS and the CONCLUSIONS of this

> research. A scientist have not to search further for the same outcome

> he already has.

>

> Gerard

>

> > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > > cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=14643096 & dopt=Abstract

> > > > or

> > > > http://tinyurl.com/565sv

> > > >

> > > > Biol Psychiatry. 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93.

> > > >

> > > > " Amygdala hyperreactivity in borderline personality disorder:

> > > > implications for emotional dysregulation "

> > > >

> > > > Donegan NH, Sanislow CA, Blumberg HP, Fulbright RK, Lacadie C,

> > > > Skudlarski P, Gore JC, Olson IR, McGlashan TH, Wexler BE.

> > > >

> > > > Department of Psychiatry, Yale University School of Medicine,

> New

> > > Haven,

> > > > Connecticut 06520-8098, USA.

> > > >

> > > > BACKGROUND: Disturbed interpersonal relations and emotional

> > > > dysregulation are fundamental aspects of borderline personality

> > > disorder

> > > > (BPD). The amygdala plays important roles in modulating

> vigilance

> > > and

> > > > generating negative emotional states and is often abnormally

> > > reactive in

> > > > disorders of mood and emotion. The aim of this study was to

> assess

> > > > amygdala reactivity in BPD patients relative to normal control

> > > subjects.

> > > > We hypothesized that amygdala hyperreactivity contributes to

> > > > hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and disturbed

> interpersonal

> > > > relations in BPD.

> > > >

> > > > METHODS: Using functional magnetic resonance imaging, we

> examined

> > > neural

> > > > responses to 20-sec blocks of neutral, happy, sad, and fearful

> > > facial

> > > > expression (or a fixation point) in 15 BPD and 15 normal control

> > > > subjects. The DSM IV-diagnosed BPD patients and the normal

> control

> > > > subjects were assessed by a clinical research team in a medical

> > > school

> > > > psychiatry department.

> > > >

> > > > RESULTS: Borderline patients showed significantly greater left

> > > amygdala

> > > > activation to the facial expressions of emotion (vs. a fixation

> > > point)

> > > > compared with normal control subjects. Post-scan debriefing

> revealed

> > > > that some borderline patients had difficulty disambiguating

> neutral

> > > > faces or found them threatening.

> > > >

> > > > CONCLUSIONS: Pictures of human emotional expressions elicit

> robust

> > > > differences in amygdala activation levels in borderline

> patients,

> > > > compared with normal control subjects, and can be used as

> probes to

> > > > study the neuropathophysiologic basis of borderline personality

> > > disorder.

> > > >

> > > > PMID: 14643096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

> > >

> > > Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> > > " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered

> via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go

> to:

> > > http://www.BPDCentral.com

> > >

March 16, 2005

The abstract on the list summarizes the main points: BACKGROUND,

METHODS,RESULTS and CONCLUSION of the scientific article (Biol

Psychiatry 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93, comprises ten pages)

Statistics are facts which are obtained from analyzing information

expressed in numbers, for example information about the number of

times that something happens.

In this study, we talk about, came the information from medical

scans.

So as, if a pregnant woman has a scan, a machine using sound waves

produces an image of her womb on a screen so that the doctor can see

if her baby is developing normally.

The hypothese in this study was: 'amygdala hyperreactivity

contributes to hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and disturbed

interpersonal relations in BPD'.

MRI-scans showed sygnificantly greater left amygdala activation by

BP's (by examining 15 BP's and 15 Nonbp's). For the purpose of this

research (to refute the hypothese) is that enough, the hypothese is

not refuted, and the pictures can indeed be used as probes to study

the neuropathopsysiologic basis of borderline personality disorder.

In statistics the validity of the measuring-instrument is very

important: do we really know -for 100 %- that we indeed measure with

this instrument what we want to measure ?

If you think that 15 + 15 + post scans, are not enough for this

purpose how many scans are -according you- necessary ? 100 ? 1000 ?

100.000 ? Who will tell ? What is your measuring-instrument in this

case ?

We have to live with hypothesis until they are refuted, therefore

scientists always have to test these hypothesis perhaps with new and

better measuring-instruments and sometimes they have succes.

This finding with MRI-scans opens a whole new perspective on the

etiology of the bp-disorder.

Gerard

> > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > > > cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=14643096 & dopt=Abstract

> > > > > or

> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/565sv

> > > > >

> > > > > Biol Psychiatry. 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93.

> > > > >

> > > > > " Amygdala hyperreactivity in borderline personality

disorder:

> > > > > implications for emotional dysregulation "

> > > > >

> > > > > Donegan NH, Sanislow CA, Blumberg HP, Fulbright RK, Lacadie

C,

> > > > > Skudlarski P, Gore JC, Olson IR, McGlashan TH, Wexler BE.

> > > > >

> > > > > Department of Psychiatry, Yale University School of

Medicine,

> > New

> > > > Haven,

> > > > > Connecticut 06520-8098, USA.

> > > > >

> > > > > BACKGROUND: Disturbed interpersonal relations and emotional

> > > > > dysregulation are fundamental aspects of borderline

personality

> > > > disorder

> > > > > (BPD). The amygdala plays important roles in modulating

> > vigilance

> > > > and

> > > > > generating negative emotional states and is often abnormally

> > > > reactive in

> > > > > disorders of mood and emotion. The aim of this study was to

> > assess

> > > > > amygdala reactivity in BPD patients relative to normal

control

> > > > subjects.

> > > > > We hypothesized that amygdala hyperreactivity contributes to

> > > > > hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and disturbed

> > interpersonal

> > > > > relations in BPD.

> > > > >

> > > > > METHODS: Using functional magnetic resonance imaging, we

> > examined

> > > > neural

> > > > > responses to 20-sec blocks of neutral, happy, sad, and

fearful

> > > > facial

> > > > > expression (or a fixation point) in 15 BPD and 15 normal

control

> > > > > subjects. The DSM IV-diagnosed BPD patients and the normal

> > control

> > > > > subjects were assessed by a clinical research team in a

medical

> > > > school

> > > > > psychiatry department.

> > > > >

> > > > > RESULTS: Borderline patients showed significantly greater

left

> > > > amygdala

> > > > > activation to the facial expressions of emotion (vs. a

fixation

> > > > point)

> > > > > compared with normal control subjects. Post-scan debriefing

> > revealed

> > > > > that some borderline patients had difficulty disambiguating

> > neutral

> > > > > faces or found them threatening.

> > > > >

> > > > > CONCLUSIONS: Pictures of human emotional expressions elicit

> > robust

> > > > > differences in amygdala activation levels in borderline

> > patients,

> > > > > compared with normal control subjects, and can be used as

> > probes to

> > > > > study the neuropathophysiologic basis of borderline

personality

> > > > disorder.

> > > > >

> > > > > PMID: 14643096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

> > > >

> > > > Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-

owner

> > > > " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be

ordered

> > via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents,

go

> > to:

> > > > http://www.BPDCentral.com

> > > >

March 16, 2005

It takes a rather complicated statistical process to figure out the

appropriate samples size for the power of the study which is why

researchers need to be careful with these things before getting too

excited about results and which the average lay person cannot easily

understand. It's not " according to me " but rather according to the

laws of statistics. " Who will tell? " There is a way to tell and it

takes a statistician to do so. It has nothing to do with me. But

speaking with general experience, 15 pre and post are only enough to

do an observational type study and give an interesting result which

the researcher may take to mean they want to actually perform a

larger study.

Theresa

> If you think that 15 + 15 + post scans, are not enough for this

> purpose how many scans are -according you- necessary ? 100 ? 1000 ?

> 100.000 ? Who will tell ? What is your measuring-instrument in this

> case ?

>

March 17, 2005

If staticians indeed knew a way, as you said, to know how much MRI-

scans 'should be' necessary to refute the hypothese, the hypothese

was already -on that basis- refuted. Further research about the

validity of the hypothese should not be necessary anymore.

Also in this case, staticians are not able to predict how much MRI-

scans 'should be' necessary to refute -if possible !- the hypothese,

only God knows that, if he exist.

Staticians are only able to analyze information expressed in numbers

from the past. In some cases they can only -predict- a possible trend

for the future. As you know: statistical results from the past are no

garanty for the future.

The results of this study, and the other study I mentioned (Am J

Psychiatry 2001; 158:775-782), are indeed very interesting,

especially for KO's, because:

These results/findings opens a whole new perspective on the etiology

of the bp-disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms.

Gerard

>

> The abstract on the list summarizes the main points: BACKGROUND,

> METHODS,RESULTS and CONCLUSION of the scientific article (Biol

> Psychiatry 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93, comprises ten pages)

>

> Statistics are facts which are obtained from analyzing information

> expressed in numbers, for example information about the number of

> times that something happens.

>

> In this study, we talk about, came the information from medical

> scans.

> So as, if a pregnant woman has a scan, a machine using sound waves

> produces an image of her womb on a screen so that the doctor can

see

> if her baby is developing normally.

>

> The hypothese in this study was: 'amygdala hyperreactivity

> contributes to hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and

disturbed

> interpersonal relations in BPD'.

> MRI-scans showed sygnificantly greater left amygdala activation by

> BP's (by examining 15 BP's and 15 Nonbp's). For the purpose of this

> research (to refute the hypothese) is that enough, the hypothese is

> not refuted, and the pictures can indeed be used as probes to study

> the neuropathopsysiologic basis of borderline personality disorder.

>

> In statistics the validity of the measuring-instrument is very

> important: do we really know -for 100 %- that we indeed measure

with

> this instrument what we want to measure ?

>

> If you think that 15 + 15 + post scans, are not enough for this

> purpose how many scans are -according you- necessary ? 100 ? 1000 ?

> 100.000 ? Who will tell ? What is your measuring-instrument in this

> case ?

>

> We have to live with hypothesis until they are refuted, therefore

> scientists always have to test these hypothesis perhaps with new

and

> better measuring-instruments and sometimes they have succes.

>

> This finding with MRI-scans opens a whole new perspective on the

> etiology of the bp-disorder.

>

> Gerard

March 17, 2005

If staticians indeed knew a way, as you said, to know how much MRI-

scans 'should be' necessary to refute the hypothese, the hypothese

was already -on that basis- refuted. Further research about the

validity of the hypothese should not be necessary anymore.

Also in this case, staticians are not able to predict how much MRI-

scans 'should be' necessary to refute -if possible !- the hypothese,

only God knows that, if he exist.

Staticians are only able to analyze information expressed in numbers

from the past. In some cases they can only -predict- a possible trend

for the future. As you know: statistical results from the past are no

garanty for the future.

The results of this study, and the other study I mentioned (Am J

Psychiatry 2001; 158:775-782), are indeed very interesting,

especially for KO's, because:

These results/findings opens a whole new perspective on the etiology

of the bp-disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms.

Gerard

>

> The abstract on the list summarizes the main points: BACKGROUND,

> METHODS,RESULTS and CONCLUSION of the scientific article (Biol

> Psychiatry 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93, comprises ten pages)

>

> Statistics are facts which are obtained from analyzing information

> expressed in numbers, for example information about the number of

> times that something happens.

>

> In this study, we talk about, came the information from medical

> scans.

> So as, if a pregnant woman has a scan, a machine using sound waves

> produces an image of her womb on a screen so that the doctor can

see

> if her baby is developing normally.

>

> The hypothese in this study was: 'amygdala hyperreactivity

> contributes to hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and

disturbed

> interpersonal relations in BPD'.

> MRI-scans showed sygnificantly greater left amygdala activation by

> BP's (by examining 15 BP's and 15 Nonbp's). For the purpose of this

> research (to refute the hypothese) is that enough, the hypothese is

> not refuted, and the pictures can indeed be used as probes to study

> the neuropathopsysiologic basis of borderline personality disorder.

>

> In statistics the validity of the measuring-instrument is very

> important: do we really know -for 100 %- that we indeed measure

with

> this instrument what we want to measure ?

>

> If you think that 15 + 15 + post scans, are not enough for this

> purpose how many scans are -according you- necessary ? 100 ? 1000 ?

> 100.000 ? Who will tell ? What is your measuring-instrument in this

> case ?

>

> We have to live with hypothesis until they are refuted, therefore

> scientists always have to test these hypothesis perhaps with new

and

> better measuring-instruments and sometimes they have succes.

>

> This finding with MRI-scans opens a whole new perspective on the

> etiology of the bp-disorder.

>

> Gerard

March 17, 2005

If staticians indeed knew a way, as you said, to know how much MRI-

scans 'should be' necessary to refute the hypothese, the hypothese

was already -on that basis- refuted. Further research about the

validity of the hypothese should not be necessary anymore.

Also in this case, staticians are not able to predict how much MRI-

scans 'should be' necessary to refute -if possible !- the hypothese,

only God knows that, if he exist.

Staticians are only able to analyze information expressed in numbers

from the past. In some cases they can only -predict- a possible trend

for the future. As you know: statistical results from the past are no

garanty for the future.

The results of this study, and the other study I mentioned (Am J

Psychiatry 2001; 158:775-782), are indeed very interesting,

especially for KO's, because:

These results/findings opens a whole new perspective on the etiology

of the bp-disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms.

Gerard

>

> The abstract on the list summarizes the main points: BACKGROUND,

> METHODS,RESULTS and CONCLUSION of the scientific article (Biol

> Psychiatry 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93, comprises ten pages)

>

> Statistics are facts which are obtained from analyzing information

> expressed in numbers, for example information about the number of

> times that something happens.

>

> In this study, we talk about, came the information from medical

> scans.

> So as, if a pregnant woman has a scan, a machine using sound waves

> produces an image of her womb on a screen so that the doctor can

see

> if her baby is developing normally.

>

> The hypothese in this study was: 'amygdala hyperreactivity

> contributes to hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and

disturbed

> interpersonal relations in BPD'.

> MRI-scans showed sygnificantly greater left amygdala activation by

> BP's (by examining 15 BP's and 15 Nonbp's). For the purpose of this

> research (to refute the hypothese) is that enough, the hypothese is

> not refuted, and the pictures can indeed be used as probes to study

> the neuropathopsysiologic basis of borderline personality disorder.

>

> In statistics the validity of the measuring-instrument is very

> important: do we really know -for 100 %- that we indeed measure

with

> this instrument what we want to measure ?

>

> If you think that 15 + 15 + post scans, are not enough for this

> purpose how many scans are -according you- necessary ? 100 ? 1000 ?

> 100.000 ? Who will tell ? What is your measuring-instrument in this

> case ?

>

> We have to live with hypothesis until they are refuted, therefore

> scientists always have to test these hypothesis perhaps with new

and

> better measuring-instruments and sometimes they have succes.

>

> This finding with MRI-scans opens a whole new perspective on the

> etiology of the bp-disorder.

>

> Gerard

March 17, 2005

You don't have a complete understand of a statistician's job.

Theresa

>

> If staticians indeed knew a way, as you said, to know how much MRI-

> scans 'should be' necessary to refute the hypothese, the hypothese

> was already -on that basis- refuted. Further research about the

> validity of the hypothese should not be necessary anymore.

>

> Also in this case, staticians are not able to predict how much MRI-

> scans 'should be' necessary to refute -if possible !- the hypothese,

> only God knows that, if he exist.

>

> Staticians are only able to analyze information expressed in numbers

> from the past. In some cases they can only -predict- a possible trend

> for the future. As you know: statistical results from the past are no

> garanty for the future.

>

> The results of this study, and the other study I mentioned (Am J

> Psychiatry 2001; 158:775-782), are indeed very interesting,

> especially for KO's, because:

>

> These results/findings opens a whole new perspective on the etiology

> of the bp-disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

> Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms.

>

> Gerard

>

> >

> > The abstract on the list summarizes the main points: BACKGROUND,

> > METHODS,RESULTS and CONCLUSION of the scientific article (Biol

> > Psychiatry 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93, comprises ten pages)

> >

> > Statistics are facts which are obtained from analyzing information

> > expressed in numbers, for example information about the number of

> > times that something happens.

> >

> > In this study, we talk about, came the information from medical

> > scans.

> > So as, if a pregnant woman has a scan, a machine using sound waves

> > produces an image of her womb on a screen so that the doctor can

> see

> > if her baby is developing normally.

> >

> > The hypothese in this study was: 'amygdala hyperreactivity

> > contributes to hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and

> disturbed

> > interpersonal relations in BPD'.

> > MRI-scans showed sygnificantly greater left amygdala activation by

> > BP's (by examining 15 BP's and 15 Nonbp's). For the purpose of this

> > research (to refute the hypothese) is that enough, the hypothese is

> > not refuted, and the pictures can indeed be used as probes to study

> > the neuropathopsysiologic basis of borderline personality disorder.

> >

> > In statistics the validity of the measuring-instrument is very

> > important: do we really know -for 100 %- that we indeed measure

> with

> > this instrument what we want to measure ?

> >

> > If you think that 15 + 15 + post scans, are not enough for this

> > purpose how many scans are -according you- necessary ? 100 ? 1000 ?

> > 100.000 ? Who will tell ? What is your measuring-instrument in this

> > case ?

> >

> > We have to live with hypothesis until they are refuted, therefore

> > scientists always have to test these hypothesis perhaps with new

> and

> > better measuring-instruments and sometimes they have succes.

> >

> > This finding with MRI-scans opens a whole new perspective on the

> > etiology of the bp-disorder.

> >

> > Gerard

>

> Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

March 17, 2005

You don't have a complete understand of a statistician's job.

Theresa

>

> If staticians indeed knew a way, as you said, to know how much MRI-

> scans 'should be' necessary to refute the hypothese, the hypothese

> was already -on that basis- refuted. Further research about the

> validity of the hypothese should not be necessary anymore.

>

> Also in this case, staticians are not able to predict how much MRI-

> scans 'should be' necessary to refute -if possible !- the hypothese,

> only God knows that, if he exist.

>

> Staticians are only able to analyze information expressed in numbers

> from the past. In some cases they can only -predict- a possible trend

> for the future. As you know: statistical results from the past are no

> garanty for the future.

>

> The results of this study, and the other study I mentioned (Am J

> Psychiatry 2001; 158:775-782), are indeed very interesting,

> especially for KO's, because:

>

> These results/findings opens a whole new perspective on the etiology

> of the bp-disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

> Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms.

>

> Gerard

>

> >

> > The abstract on the list summarizes the main points: BACKGROUND,

> > METHODS,RESULTS and CONCLUSION of the scientific article (Biol

> > Psychiatry 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93, comprises ten pages)

> >

> > Statistics are facts which are obtained from analyzing information

> > expressed in numbers, for example information about the number of

> > times that something happens.

> >

> > In this study, we talk about, came the information from medical

> > scans.

> > So as, if a pregnant woman has a scan, a machine using sound waves

> > produces an image of her womb on a screen so that the doctor can

> see

> > if her baby is developing normally.

> >

> > The hypothese in this study was: 'amygdala hyperreactivity

> > contributes to hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and

> disturbed

> > interpersonal relations in BPD'.

> > MRI-scans showed sygnificantly greater left amygdala activation by

> > BP's (by examining 15 BP's and 15 Nonbp's). For the purpose of this

> > research (to refute the hypothese) is that enough, the hypothese is

> > not refuted, and the pictures can indeed be used as probes to study

> > the neuropathopsysiologic basis of borderline personality disorder.

> >

> > In statistics the validity of the measuring-instrument is very

> > important: do we really know -for 100 %- that we indeed measure

> with

> > this instrument what we want to measure ?

> >

> > If you think that 15 + 15 + post scans, are not enough for this

> > purpose how many scans are -according you- necessary ? 100 ? 1000 ?

> > 100.000 ? Who will tell ? What is your measuring-instrument in this

> > case ?

> >

> > We have to live with hypothesis until they are refuted, therefore

> > scientists always have to test these hypothesis perhaps with new

> and

> > better measuring-instruments and sometimes they have succes.

> >

> > This finding with MRI-scans opens a whole new perspective on the

> > etiology of the bp-disorder.

> >

> > Gerard

>

> Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

March 18, 2005

It is absolutely not necessary for readers of scientific article's to

have a complete understand of a statician's job.

Scientific article's are only published in scientific magazines after

that other scientists have examined that article and after they have

given their permission to publish that article. These other -often

very fame- scientists examine this article of the BACKGROUND, METHOD,

RESULTS and CONCLUSIONS are scientific acceptable, this examination

includes ofcourse also statisticle issues.

So anyone who may have critics on a scientific article published in a

scientific magazin have to consider carefully before publishing

his/hers critics on that article, because otherwise people possibly

say about these critics: 'the writer of this critics has heard about

it, but he/she does not know what to make of it.' *wink*

This is a list about BPD and not about statistics therefore I repeat,

as I said before, what is important for all KO's and about which

we have to talk:

" The results of this study, and the other study I mentioned (Am J

Psychiatry 2001; 158:775-782), are indeed very interesting,

especially for KO's, because:

These results/findings opens a whole new perspective on the

etiology of the bp-disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic

Rooted Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms. "

Gerard

> > >

> > > The abstract on the list summarizes the main points: BACKGROUND,

> > > METHODS,RESULTS and CONCLUSION of the scientific article (Biol

> > > Psychiatry 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93, comprises ten pages)

> > >

> > > Statistics are facts which are obtained from analyzing

information

> > > expressed in numbers, for example information about the number

of

> > > times that something happens.

> > >

> > > In this study, we talk about, came the information from medical

> > > scans.

> > > So as, if a pregnant woman has a scan, a machine using sound

waves

> > > produces an image of her womb on a screen so that the doctor can

> > see

> > > if her baby is developing normally.

> > >

> > > The hypothese in this study was: 'amygdala hyperreactivity

> > > contributes to hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and

> > disturbed

> > > interpersonal relations in BPD'.

> > > MRI-scans showed sygnificantly greater left amygdala activation

by

> > > BP's (by examining 15 BP's and 15 Nonbp's). For the purpose of

this

> > > research (to refute the hypothese) is that enough, the

hypothese is

> > > not refuted, and the pictures can indeed be used as probes to

study

> > > the neuropathopsysiologic basis of borderline personality

disorder.

> > >

> > > In statistics the validity of the measuring-instrument is very

> > > important: do we really know -for 100 %- that we indeed measure

> > with

> > > this instrument what we want to measure ?

> > >

> > > If you think that 15 + 15 + post scans, are not enough for this

> > > purpose how many scans are -according you- necessary ? 100 ?

1000 ?

> > > 100.000 ? Who will tell ? What is your measuring-instrument in

this

> > > case ?

> > >

> > > We have to live with hypothesis until they are refuted,

therefore

> > > scientists always have to test these hypothesis perhaps with new

> > and

> > > better measuring-instruments and sometimes they have succes.

> > >

> > > This finding with MRI-scans opens a whole new perspective on the

> > > etiology of the bp-disorder.

> > >

> > > Gerard

> >

> > Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> > " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered

via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go

to:

> > http://www.BPDCentral.com

> >

March 18, 2005

It is absolutely not necessary for readers of scientific article's to

have a complete understand of a statician's job.

Scientific article's are only published in scientific magazines after

that other scientists have examined that article and after they have

given their permission to publish that article. These other -often

very fame- scientists examine this article of the BACKGROUND, METHOD,

RESULTS and CONCLUSIONS are scientific acceptable, this examination

includes ofcourse also statisticle issues.

So anyone who may have critics on a scientific article published in a

scientific magazin have to consider carefully before publishing

his/hers critics on that article, because otherwise people possibly

say about these critics: 'the writer of this critics has heard about

it, but he/she does not know what to make of it.' *wink*

This is a list about BPD and not about statistics therefore I repeat,

as I said before, what is important for all KO's and about which

we have to talk:

" The results of this study, and the other study I mentioned (Am J

Psychiatry 2001; 158:775-782), are indeed very interesting,

especially for KO's, because:

These results/findings opens a whole new perspective on the

etiology of the bp-disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic

Rooted Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms. "

Gerard

> > >

> > > The abstract on the list summarizes the main points: BACKGROUND,

> > > METHODS,RESULTS and CONCLUSION of the scientific article (Biol

> > > Psychiatry 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93, comprises ten pages)

> > >

> > > Statistics are facts which are obtained from analyzing

information

> > > expressed in numbers, for example information about the number

of

> > > times that something happens.

> > >

> > > In this study, we talk about, came the information from medical

> > > scans.

> > > So as, if a pregnant woman has a scan, a machine using sound

waves

> > > produces an image of her womb on a screen so that the doctor can

> > see

> > > if her baby is developing normally.

> > >

> > > The hypothese in this study was: 'amygdala hyperreactivity

> > > contributes to hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and

> > disturbed

> > > interpersonal relations in BPD'.

> > > MRI-scans showed sygnificantly greater left amygdala activation

by

> > > BP's (by examining 15 BP's and 15 Nonbp's). For the purpose of

this

> > > research (to refute the hypothese) is that enough, the

hypothese is

> > > not refuted, and the pictures can indeed be used as probes to

study

> > > the neuropathopsysiologic basis of borderline personality

disorder.

> > >

> > > In statistics the validity of the measuring-instrument is very

> > > important: do we really know -for 100 %- that we indeed measure

> > with

> > > this instrument what we want to measure ?

> > >

> > > If you think that 15 + 15 + post scans, are not enough for this

> > > purpose how many scans are -according you- necessary ? 100 ?

1000 ?

> > > 100.000 ? Who will tell ? What is your measuring-instrument in

this

> > > case ?

> > >

> > > We have to live with hypothesis until they are refuted,

therefore

> > > scientists always have to test these hypothesis perhaps with new

> > and

> > > better measuring-instruments and sometimes they have succes.

> > >

> > > This finding with MRI-scans opens a whole new perspective on the

> > > etiology of the bp-disorder.

> > >

> > > Gerard

> >

> > Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> > " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered

via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go

to:

> > http://www.BPDCentral.com

> >

March 18, 2005

It is absolutely not necessary for readers of scientific article's to

have a complete understand of a statician's job.

Scientific article's are only published in scientific magazines after

that other scientists have examined that article and after they have

given their permission to publish that article. These other -often

very fame- scientists examine this article of the BACKGROUND, METHOD,

RESULTS and CONCLUSIONS are scientific acceptable, this examination

includes ofcourse also statisticle issues.

So anyone who may have critics on a scientific article published in a

scientific magazin have to consider carefully before publishing

his/hers critics on that article, because otherwise people possibly

say about these critics: 'the writer of this critics has heard about

it, but he/she does not know what to make of it.' *wink*

This is a list about BPD and not about statistics therefore I repeat,

as I said before, what is important for all KO's and about which

we have to talk:

" The results of this study, and the other study I mentioned (Am J

Psychiatry 2001; 158:775-782), are indeed very interesting,

especially for KO's, because:

These results/findings opens a whole new perspective on the

etiology of the bp-disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic

Rooted Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms. "

Gerard

> > >

> > > The abstract on the list summarizes the main points: BACKGROUND,

> > > METHODS,RESULTS and CONCLUSION of the scientific article (Biol

> > > Psychiatry 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93, comprises ten pages)

> > >

> > > Statistics are facts which are obtained from analyzing

information

> > > expressed in numbers, for example information about the number

of

> > > times that something happens.

> > >

> > > In this study, we talk about, came the information from medical

> > > scans.

> > > So as, if a pregnant woman has a scan, a machine using sound

waves

> > > produces an image of her womb on a screen so that the doctor can

> > see

> > > if her baby is developing normally.

> > >

> > > The hypothese in this study was: 'amygdala hyperreactivity

> > > contributes to hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and

> > disturbed

> > > interpersonal relations in BPD'.

> > > MRI-scans showed sygnificantly greater left amygdala activation

by

> > > BP's (by examining 15 BP's and 15 Nonbp's). For the purpose of

this

> > > research (to refute the hypothese) is that enough, the

hypothese is

> > > not refuted, and the pictures can indeed be used as probes to

study

> > > the neuropathopsysiologic basis of borderline personality

disorder.

> > >

> > > In statistics the validity of the measuring-instrument is very

> > > important: do we really know -for 100 %- that we indeed measure

> > with

> > > this instrument what we want to measure ?

> > >

> > > If you think that 15 + 15 + post scans, are not enough for this

> > > purpose how many scans are -according you- necessary ? 100 ?

1000 ?

> > > 100.000 ? Who will tell ? What is your measuring-instrument in

this

> > > case ?

> > >

> > > We have to live with hypothesis until they are refuted,

therefore

> > > scientists always have to test these hypothesis perhaps with new

> > and

> > > better measuring-instruments and sometimes they have succes.

> > >

> > > This finding with MRI-scans opens a whole new perspective on the

> > > etiology of the bp-disorder.

> > >

> > > Gerard

> >

> > Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> > " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered

via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go

to:

> > http://www.BPDCentral.com

> >

March 18, 2005

Hi Edith,

As you say: " Consensus in 2005 seems to be that BPD may result from

either genetic or environmental factors, or a combination of both. "

So: BPD may result from: 'either, or, or a.'

The query is which one of this three possibilities results to BPD ?

As I wrote in one of my posts before, see below:

" This finding opens a whole new perspective on the etiology of the bp-

disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms, (according

mental health professionals in my country). "

Biological psychiatrists/researchers, according the results of their

researches into the brain of bp'and nonbp's, have found important

motives to do a larger study of the neuropathophysiologic basis of

borderline personality disorder.

Ofcourse we must have patience for developing new findings in

science, but what to think about a possible dream of the future: a

possible anti impulsive medicin for bp's so as anti-depression

medicines from which so many depressive people get benefits ?

We have to realize: The Mind is what the Brain does !

Gerard

> >

> >>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> >

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=14643096 & dopt=Abstract

> >

> >>or

> >>http://tinyurl.com/565sv

> >>

> >>Biol Psychiatry. 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93.

> >>

> >> " Amygdala hyperreactivity in borderline personality disorder:

> >>implications for emotional dysregulation "

> >>

> >>Donegan NH, Sanislow CA, Blumberg HP, Fulbright RK, Lacadie C,

> >>Skudlarski P, Gore JC, Olson IR, McGlashan TH, Wexler BE.

> >>

> >>Department of Psychiatry, Yale University School of Medicine, New

> >

> > Haven,

> >

> >>Connecticut 06520-8098, USA.

> >>

> >>BACKGROUND: Disturbed interpersonal relations and emotional

> >>dysregulation are fundamental aspects of borderline personality

> >

> > disorder

> >

> >>(BPD). The amygdala plays important roles in modulating vigilance

> >

> > and

> >

> >>generating negative emotional states and is often abnormally

> >

> > reactive in

> >

> >>disorders of mood and emotion. The aim of this study was to assess

> >>amygdala reactivity in BPD patients relative to normal control

> >

> > subjects.

> >

> >>We hypothesized that amygdala hyperreactivity contributes to

> >>hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and disturbed

interpersonal

> >>relations in BPD.

> >>

> >>METHODS: Using functional magnetic resonance imaging, we examined

> >

> > neural

> >

> >>responses to 20-sec blocks of neutral, happy, sad, and fearful

> >

> > facial

> >

> >>expression (or a fixation point) in 15 BPD and 15 normal control

> >>subjects. The DSM IV-diagnosed BPD patients and the normal control

> >>subjects were assessed by a clinical research team in a medical

> >

> > school

> >

> >>psychiatry department.

> >>

> >>RESULTS: Borderline patients showed significantly greater left

> >

> > amygdala

> >

> >>activation to the facial expressions of emotion (vs. a fixation

> >

> > point)

> >

> >>compared with normal control subjects. Post-scan debriefing

revealed

> >>that some borderline patients had difficulty disambiguating

neutral

> >>faces or found them threatening.

> >>

> >>CONCLUSIONS: Pictures of human emotional expressions elicit robust

> >>differences in amygdala activation levels in borderline patients,

> >>compared with normal control subjects, and can be used as probes

to

> >>study the neuropathophysiologic basis of borderline personality

> >

> > disorder.

> >

> >>PMID: 14643096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

March 18, 2005

Hi Edith,

As you say: " Consensus in 2005 seems to be that BPD may result from

either genetic or environmental factors, or a combination of both. "

So: BPD may result from: 'either, or, or a.'

The query is which one of this three possibilities results to BPD ?

As I wrote in one of my posts before, see below:

" This finding opens a whole new perspective on the etiology of the bp-

disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms, (according

mental health professionals in my country). "

Biological psychiatrists/researchers, according the results of their

researches into the brain of bp'and nonbp's, have found important

motives to do a larger study of the neuropathophysiologic basis of

borderline personality disorder.

Ofcourse we must have patience for developing new findings in

science, but what to think about a possible dream of the future: a

possible anti impulsive medicin for bp's so as anti-depression

medicines from which so many depressive people get benefits ?

We have to realize: The Mind is what the Brain does !

Gerard

> >

> >>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> >

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=14643096 & dopt=Abstract

> >

> >>or

> >>http://tinyurl.com/565sv

> >>

> >>Biol Psychiatry. 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93.

> >>

> >> " Amygdala hyperreactivity in borderline personality disorder:

> >>implications for emotional dysregulation "

> >>

> >>Donegan NH, Sanislow CA, Blumberg HP, Fulbright RK, Lacadie C,

> >>Skudlarski P, Gore JC, Olson IR, McGlashan TH, Wexler BE.

> >>

> >>Department of Psychiatry, Yale University School of Medicine, New

> >

> > Haven,

> >

> >>Connecticut 06520-8098, USA.

> >>

> >>BACKGROUND: Disturbed interpersonal relations and emotional

> >>dysregulation are fundamental aspects of borderline personality

> >

> > disorder

> >

> >>(BPD). The amygdala plays important roles in modulating vigilance

> >

> > and

> >

> >>generating negative emotional states and is often abnormally

> >

> > reactive in

> >

> >>disorders of mood and emotion. The aim of this study was to assess

> >>amygdala reactivity in BPD patients relative to normal control

> >

> > subjects.

> >

> >>We hypothesized that amygdala hyperreactivity contributes to

> >>hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and disturbed

interpersonal

> >>relations in BPD.

> >>

> >>METHODS: Using functional magnetic resonance imaging, we examined

> >

> > neural

> >

> >>responses to 20-sec blocks of neutral, happy, sad, and fearful

> >

> > facial

> >

> >>expression (or a fixation point) in 15 BPD and 15 normal control

> >>subjects. The DSM IV-diagnosed BPD patients and the normal control

> >>subjects were assessed by a clinical research team in a medical

> >

> > school

> >

> >>psychiatry department.

> >>

> >>RESULTS: Borderline patients showed significantly greater left

> >

> > amygdala

> >

> >>activation to the facial expressions of emotion (vs. a fixation

> >

> > point)

> >

> >>compared with normal control subjects. Post-scan debriefing

revealed

> >>that some borderline patients had difficulty disambiguating

neutral

> >>faces or found them threatening.

> >>

> >>CONCLUSIONS: Pictures of human emotional expressions elicit robust

> >>differences in amygdala activation levels in borderline patients,

> >>compared with normal control subjects, and can be used as probes

to

> >>study the neuropathophysiologic basis of borderline personality

> >

> > disorder.

> >

> >>PMID: 14643096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

March 18, 2005

Hi Edith,

As you say: " Consensus in 2005 seems to be that BPD may result from

either genetic or environmental factors, or a combination of both. "

So: BPD may result from: 'either, or, or a.'

The query is which one of this three possibilities results to BPD ?

As I wrote in one of my posts before, see below:

" This finding opens a whole new perspective on the etiology of the bp-

disorder: not traumatic antecedents, but a Genetic Rooted

Neurochemical Defect is responsible for the symptoms, (according

mental health professionals in my country). "

Biological psychiatrists/researchers, according the results of their

researches into the brain of bp'and nonbp's, have found important

motives to do a larger study of the neuropathophysiologic basis of

borderline personality disorder.

Ofcourse we must have patience for developing new findings in

science, but what to think about a possible dream of the future: a

possible anti impulsive medicin for bp's so as anti-depression

medicines from which so many depressive people get benefits ?

We have to realize: The Mind is what the Brain does !

Gerard

> >

> >>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> >

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=14643096 & dopt=Abstract

> >

> >>or

> >>http://tinyurl.com/565sv

> >>

> >>Biol Psychiatry. 2003 Dec 1;54(11):1284-93.

> >>

> >> " Amygdala hyperreactivity in borderline personality disorder:

> >>implications for emotional dysregulation "

> >>

> >>Donegan NH, Sanislow CA, Blumberg HP, Fulbright RK, Lacadie C,

> >>Skudlarski P, Gore JC, Olson IR, McGlashan TH, Wexler BE.

> >>

> >>Department of Psychiatry, Yale University School of Medicine, New

> >

> > Haven,

> >

> >>Connecticut 06520-8098, USA.

> >>

> >>BACKGROUND: Disturbed interpersonal relations and emotional

> >>dysregulation are fundamental aspects of borderline personality

> >

> > disorder

> >

> >>(BPD). The amygdala plays important roles in modulating vigilance

> >

> > and

> >

> >>generating negative emotional states and is often abnormally

> >

> > reactive in

> >

> >>disorders of mood and emotion. The aim of this study was to assess

> >>amygdala reactivity in BPD patients relative to normal control

> >

> > subjects.

> >

> >>We hypothesized that amygdala hyperreactivity contributes to

> >>hypervigilance, emotional dysregulation, and disturbed

interpersonal

> >>relations in BPD.

> >>

> >>METHODS: Using functional magnetic resonance imaging, we examined

> >

> > neural

> >

> >>responses to 20-sec blocks of neutral, happy, sad, and fearful

> >

> > facial

> >

> >>expression (or a fixation point) in 15 BPD and 15 normal control

> >>subjects. The DSM IV-diagnosed BPD patients and the normal control

> >>subjects were assessed by a clinical research team in a medical

> >

> > school

> >

> >>psychiatry department.

> >>

> >>RESULTS: Borderline patients showed significantly greater left

> >

> > amygdala

> >

> >>activation to the facial expressions of emotion (vs. a fixation

> >

> > point)

> >

> >>compared with normal control subjects. Post-scan debriefing

revealed

> >>that some borderline patients had difficulty disambiguating

neutral

> >>faces or found them threatening.

> >>

> >>CONCLUSIONS: Pictures of human emotional expressions elicit robust

> >>differences in amygdala activation levels in borderline patients,

> >>compared with normal control subjects, and can be used as probes

to

> >>study the neuropathophysiologic basis of borderline personality

> >

> > disorder.

> >

> >>PMID: 14643096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

March 18, 2005

You'd be surprised, actually, how much questionable stuff gets

published. So, yes, to understan whether a study has any

questionability to it, it does help tremendously for the reader to

have a background in research including statistics. When researchers

do not always set up their experiments properly, they are actually

taking advantage of the reader who has no such background. Shouldn't

be that way, but happens all the time.

Theresa

>

> It is absolutely not necessary for readers of scientific article's to

> have a complete understand of a statician's job.

>

> Scientific article's are only published in scientific magazines after

> that other scientists have examined that article and after they have

> given their permission to publish that article. These other -often

> very fame- scientists examine this article of the BACKGROUND, METHOD,

> RESULTS and CONCLUSIONS are scientific acceptable, this examination

> includes ofcourse also statisticle issues.

March 18, 2005

You'd be surprised, actually, how much questionable stuff gets

published. So, yes, to understan whether a study has any

questionability to it, it does help tremendously for the reader to

have a background in research including statistics. When researchers

do not always set up their experiments properly, they are actually

taking advantage of the reader who has no such background. Shouldn't

be that way, but happens all the time.

Theresa

>

> It is absolutely not necessary for readers of scientific article's to

> have a complete understand of a statician's job.

>

> Scientific article's are only published in scientific magazines after

> that other scientists have examined that article and after they have

> given their permission to publish that article. These other -often

> very fame- scientists examine this article of the BACKGROUND, METHOD,

> RESULTS and CONCLUSIONS are scientific acceptable, this examination

> includes ofcourse also statisticle issues.

March 19, 2005

The scientific study we talk about (#36430) has Edith send to the

list. She was/is professor of psychology at Cerritos College in

Norwalk, California, see pade 5 + 6 of SWOE and moderator of this

list.

The truth of a scientific pronouncement is in principle free from the

social positions and the meanings of scientists and is not the

outcome but the direction-indicator touchstone of the social process

that is called science. Either, for me the posts of Edith are always

reliable. *wink*

Gerard

> >

> > It is absolutely not necessary for readers of scientific

article's to

> > have a complete understand of a statician's job.

> >

> > Scientific article's are only published in scientific magazines

after

> > that other scientists have examined that article and after they

have

> > given their permission to publish that article. These other -often

> > very fame- scientists examine this article of the BACKGROUND,

METHOD,

> > RESULTS and CONCLUSIONS are scientific acceptable, this

examination

> > includes ofcourse also statisticle issues.

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