Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Hi I am jumping into this debate late so I do not have all the facts but I do have some comments. I have suffered from chronic pain for almost 15 years now. I also have other medical problems that are secondary to pain, depression, anxiety, etc. I take a lot of medication every day to treat these illnesses, I do not like having to do so but given the choices I stay with the medication. I had my own chronic pain web site for three years and one of the most common issues for people was to come to terms with the fact that we take medication that is very addictive. Not just pain medication, anti depressants, anti anxiety, medication for reflux disease it's all addictive. When you put a certain chemical compound into your body every day for say five years you cannot just stop without experiencing withdrawal. That does not make us lesser people and we certainty are not drug addicts and we do not do these things for pleasure, we do them to survive. We all know this and we need to as a group of intelligent people stop fighting labeling and get on with our lives. There is a movie maybe 5 to 10 years old called " Defending Your Life. " The movie is about a guy who dies and goes to heaven and finds out that before they let you in you have to defend your life for what ever actions you took during it. I felt this way every day for maybe 10 years. Not any more I quit. I know who I am, I know what my ailments are and I know why I need to have them treated. Sorry this is long but it time to move on from this and wake up and realize that we do not need to walk around every day defending our actions. Be Well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Hi I am jumping into this debate late so I do not have all the facts but I do have some comments. I have suffered from chronic pain for almost 15 years now. I also have other medical problems that are secondary to pain, depression, anxiety, etc. I take a lot of medication every day to treat these illnesses, I do not like having to do so but given the choices I stay with the medication. I had my own chronic pain web site for three years and one of the most common issues for people was to come to terms with the fact that we take medication that is very addictive. Not just pain medication, anti depressants, anti anxiety, medication for reflux disease it's all addictive. When you put a certain chemical compound into your body every day for say five years you cannot just stop without experiencing withdrawal. That does not make us lesser people and we certainty are not drug addicts and we do not do these things for pleasure, we do them to survive. We all know this and we need to as a group of intelligent people stop fighting labeling and get on with our lives. There is a movie maybe 5 to 10 years old called " Defending Your Life. " The movie is about a guy who dies and goes to heaven and finds out that before they let you in you have to defend your life for what ever actions you took during it. I felt this way every day for maybe 10 years. Not any more I quit. I know who I am, I know what my ailments are and I know why I need to have them treated. Sorry this is long but it time to move on from this and wake up and realize that we do not need to walk around every day defending our actions. Be Well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Hi I am jumping into this debate late so I do not have all the facts but I do have some comments. I have suffered from chronic pain for almost 15 years now. I also have other medical problems that are secondary to pain, depression, anxiety, etc. I take a lot of medication every day to treat these illnesses, I do not like having to do so but given the choices I stay with the medication. I had my own chronic pain web site for three years and one of the most common issues for people was to come to terms with the fact that we take medication that is very addictive. Not just pain medication, anti depressants, anti anxiety, medication for reflux disease it's all addictive. When you put a certain chemical compound into your body every day for say five years you cannot just stop without experiencing withdrawal. That does not make us lesser people and we certainty are not drug addicts and we do not do these things for pleasure, we do them to survive. We all know this and we need to as a group of intelligent people stop fighting labeling and get on with our lives. There is a movie maybe 5 to 10 years old called " Defending Your Life. " The movie is about a guy who dies and goes to heaven and finds out that before they let you in you have to defend your life for what ever actions you took during it. I felt this way every day for maybe 10 years. Not any more I quit. I know who I am, I know what my ailments are and I know why I need to have them treated. Sorry this is long but it time to move on from this and wake up and realize that we do not need to walk around every day defending our actions. Be Well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 angllight@... wrote: > <snipped> > I know I/we get tolerant while taking meds, but I can't say I am not > addicted. I have been thru the symptoms......any thoughts? I think what most people are trying to do is differentiate the mindset between addicted and habituated (very tolerant:-), so as not to be placed in the same " class " as people who buy drugs to get stoned. " Habituated " people go through withdrawal when they stop taking drugs. They tough it out with or without the help of a hospital or doctor. " Addicted " people believe that they cannot exist without the drug. They will go to almost any length to get more of their drug of choice. Helpfully? -- Lyndi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 angllight@... wrote: > <snipped> > I know I/we get tolerant while taking meds, but I can't say I am not > addicted. I have been thru the symptoms......any thoughts? I think what most people are trying to do is differentiate the mindset between addicted and habituated (very tolerant:-), so as not to be placed in the same " class " as people who buy drugs to get stoned. " Habituated " people go through withdrawal when they stop taking drugs. They tough it out with or without the help of a hospital or doctor. " Addicted " people believe that they cannot exist without the drug. They will go to almost any length to get more of their drug of choice. Helpfully? -- Lyndi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 angllight@... wrote: > <snipped> > I know I/we get tolerant while taking meds, but I can't say I am not > addicted. I have been thru the symptoms......any thoughts? I think what most people are trying to do is differentiate the mindset between addicted and habituated (very tolerant:-), so as not to be placed in the same " class " as people who buy drugs to get stoned. " Habituated " people go through withdrawal when they stop taking drugs. They tough it out with or without the help of a hospital or doctor. " Addicted " people believe that they cannot exist without the drug. They will go to almost any length to get more of their drug of choice. Helpfully? -- Lyndi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 > Hi > > When you put a certain chemical compound into your body every day for say > five years you cannot just stop without experiencing withdrawal. time to move on from this and wake up and > realize that we do not need to walk around every day defending our actions. > > Be Well... > ***************************************************************** is absolutly right. There is a huge difference between being an addict and being dependent on a medication. I am depending on several medications to get me through the day but am I addicted to them? no, If I had to stop taking them, I could...it would be difficult but I would do it if necessary. An addict will do whatever it takes to get their drug of choice, and they will put it into their body in whatever form it takes to make them feel better soonest... causing of course an escalated need for the drug over shorter time periods...I would never do that to myself....believe it or not, pains and all I do love myself enough to protect myself. I'm sure we all do. God Bless, Daphne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 > Hi > > When you put a certain chemical compound into your body every day for say > five years you cannot just stop without experiencing withdrawal. time to move on from this and wake up and > realize that we do not need to walk around every day defending our actions. > > Be Well... > ***************************************************************** is absolutly right. There is a huge difference between being an addict and being dependent on a medication. I am depending on several medications to get me through the day but am I addicted to them? no, If I had to stop taking them, I could...it would be difficult but I would do it if necessary. An addict will do whatever it takes to get their drug of choice, and they will put it into their body in whatever form it takes to make them feel better soonest... causing of course an escalated need for the drug over shorter time periods...I would never do that to myself....believe it or not, pains and all I do love myself enough to protect myself. I'm sure we all do. God Bless, Daphne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 > Hi > > When you put a certain chemical compound into your body every day for say > five years you cannot just stop without experiencing withdrawal. time to move on from this and wake up and > realize that we do not need to walk around every day defending our actions. > > Be Well... > ***************************************************************** is absolutly right. There is a huge difference between being an addict and being dependent on a medication. I am depending on several medications to get me through the day but am I addicted to them? no, If I had to stop taking them, I could...it would be difficult but I would do it if necessary. An addict will do whatever it takes to get their drug of choice, and they will put it into their body in whatever form it takes to make them feel better soonest... causing of course an escalated need for the drug over shorter time periods...I would never do that to myself....believe it or not, pains and all I do love myself enough to protect myself. I'm sure we all do. God Bless, Daphne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Extraneous Text deleted by Moderator I can honestly sat that I am addicted..............to not suffering that is, even with the load of drugs given to me by the doc....leaves me with some pain, and no wits to my mind....so is it a win win situation? But on the other hand.......a simple joint or bowl and not only can I relaxe, allowing my body to try and help itsself........I keep all my wits about myself, I can think, function, and go on.............I would rather get up every morning, go to work, enjoy the day with the kids, and call it a day by crawling into bed with my wife..Without using any drugs of any kind.....But I dont have that choice...This pain effects all I know at this time in my life, and I am afraid to say, but too all those I may know in the future...............so NO...I aint looking for a fix or a buzz.........I want my life back................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Extraneous Text deleted by Moderator I can honestly sat that I am addicted..............to not suffering that is, even with the load of drugs given to me by the doc....leaves me with some pain, and no wits to my mind....so is it a win win situation? But on the other hand.......a simple joint or bowl and not only can I relaxe, allowing my body to try and help itsself........I keep all my wits about myself, I can think, function, and go on.............I would rather get up every morning, go to work, enjoy the day with the kids, and call it a day by crawling into bed with my wife..Without using any drugs of any kind.....But I dont have that choice...This pain effects all I know at this time in my life, and I am afraid to say, but too all those I may know in the future...............so NO...I aint looking for a fix or a buzz.........I want my life back................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Extraneous Text deleted by Moderator I can honestly sat that I am addicted..............to not suffering that is, even with the load of drugs given to me by the doc....leaves me with some pain, and no wits to my mind....so is it a win win situation? But on the other hand.......a simple joint or bowl and not only can I relaxe, allowing my body to try and help itsself........I keep all my wits about myself, I can think, function, and go on.............I would rather get up every morning, go to work, enjoy the day with the kids, and call it a day by crawling into bed with my wife..Without using any drugs of any kind.....But I dont have that choice...This pain effects all I know at this time in my life, and I am afraid to say, but too all those I may know in the future...............so NO...I aint looking for a fix or a buzz.........I want my life back................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Janie, One of the reasons I decided to stop taking my oxycontin prescription for pain control was the fact that my pills had been stolen three times last summer by workmen in the house while we were remodeling and then moving. After I then knocked my satchel full of newly filled prescriptions out of the car on an out of town trip it became clear to me that this was not the way to live any longer. Yes, I was physically dependent, thus the painful and distressing withdrawals. But I was not addicted in the classical sense. I went, at the insistence of my wife and family, to a detox ward and then entered an outpatient program for chemically addicted persons. I stayed with the program for two and a half weeks out of respect for my family's desire, but what I became convinced of was that I was in no way addicted and did not need the program. I experienced no desire to seek or illegally or legally get more medication. Not even during detox. My associates in getting the prescriptions were my doctor, his nurse practitioner, and my pharmacist. I had gone monthly to be evaluated and pick up my prescription. I had gone weekly to the required counseling sessions with a psychologist. I had used one and only one doctor and one and only one pharmacy as required by the pain clinic contracts I had to sign. My friends were my family, and church members. I was never in a situation where I woke up and couldn't remember where I was or how I got there. I did not match any of the guidelines of being an addicted person. However, for her own reasons, my wife decided I was " addicted " and filed for divorce because I would not complete the chemical addiction program. Even now I still see the same psychologist who states I have no addiction problem, just depression and grief from my wife's decisions and actions. Family members may make wrong assumptions about those who deal with chronic pain. Family members may disagree with your doctors' medical treatment plans for your chronic pain. My wife is a doctor, but she never discussed her concerns about addiction with any of my doctors. I always asked her to attend my medical appointments if there was a question about being prescribed a narcotic medication or changing the doseage. She did go, but she always agreed with my doctors, or at least did not verbally disagree. There is a misconception in our society about the treatment of chronic pain. Many people do not believe that narcotics should be given for any condition other than pain in a terminally ill patient. But when do you decide a patient is terminally ill? My own mother suffered for years from intractable pain but was refused medications because " you might become addicted " until her last three months of life. Her quality of life would have been so much better if she had received narcotic pain relief sooner. My relationship with my family will never be the same. My wife and oldest children made up their minds about narcotic prescriptions for pain relief without ever discussing the situation with my doctor. They forced me into a detox program after they took away my medications from me. What could I do? They also forced me out of my own home and would not let me return home after I was detoxed. I now take Effexor, a dual acting anti-depressant for depression and pain-control. Luckily for me living alone without 7 to 11 people in the house has reduced my stress level so much so that my Reactive Arthritis and Fibromyalgia are at low levels. This does not mean that I am without pain. But I am managing the pain without the medications I formerly took. What will I do in the future if my pain symptoms return to their formerly high levels and reduce the quality of my life again? It will depend upon choices I make in consultation with my doctor. Even that " plan " was seen as an addictive decision by my wife and therefore evidence that...to her...I am/was still addicted. You cannot win without losing when your family disagrees with you on this matter. Nothing you can say or do will change their misunderstandings about narcotic pain relief for chronic pain management. My immediate problem is finding employment. I have a limit of about 4 hours before back pain and foot pain and shoulder and arm pain force me to collapse. The fatigue factors from the diseases are still a big problem. It takes a good two hours of rest before I can go again. I'm sure there is a solution to my difficulties, but right now it is extremely frustrating. My mind is willing, but my body is still diseased. The issues are very daunting and I can only hope that each one of you has a loving and understanding spouse/partner/parents/children, etc., to share a positive life with. For whatever you decide for yourself, I'm sure that there will be someone in your life who disagrees with narcotic pain management for you. Ray Neal, co-moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Janie, One of the reasons I decided to stop taking my oxycontin prescription for pain control was the fact that my pills had been stolen three times last summer by workmen in the house while we were remodeling and then moving. After I then knocked my satchel full of newly filled prescriptions out of the car on an out of town trip it became clear to me that this was not the way to live any longer. Yes, I was physically dependent, thus the painful and distressing withdrawals. But I was not addicted in the classical sense. I went, at the insistence of my wife and family, to a detox ward and then entered an outpatient program for chemically addicted persons. I stayed with the program for two and a half weeks out of respect for my family's desire, but what I became convinced of was that I was in no way addicted and did not need the program. I experienced no desire to seek or illegally or legally get more medication. Not even during detox. My associates in getting the prescriptions were my doctor, his nurse practitioner, and my pharmacist. I had gone monthly to be evaluated and pick up my prescription. I had gone weekly to the required counseling sessions with a psychologist. I had used one and only one doctor and one and only one pharmacy as required by the pain clinic contracts I had to sign. My friends were my family, and church members. I was never in a situation where I woke up and couldn't remember where I was or how I got there. I did not match any of the guidelines of being an addicted person. However, for her own reasons, my wife decided I was " addicted " and filed for divorce because I would not complete the chemical addiction program. Even now I still see the same psychologist who states I have no addiction problem, just depression and grief from my wife's decisions and actions. Family members may make wrong assumptions about those who deal with chronic pain. Family members may disagree with your doctors' medical treatment plans for your chronic pain. My wife is a doctor, but she never discussed her concerns about addiction with any of my doctors. I always asked her to attend my medical appointments if there was a question about being prescribed a narcotic medication or changing the doseage. She did go, but she always agreed with my doctors, or at least did not verbally disagree. There is a misconception in our society about the treatment of chronic pain. Many people do not believe that narcotics should be given for any condition other than pain in a terminally ill patient. But when do you decide a patient is terminally ill? My own mother suffered for years from intractable pain but was refused medications because " you might become addicted " until her last three months of life. Her quality of life would have been so much better if she had received narcotic pain relief sooner. My relationship with my family will never be the same. My wife and oldest children made up their minds about narcotic prescriptions for pain relief without ever discussing the situation with my doctor. They forced me into a detox program after they took away my medications from me. What could I do? They also forced me out of my own home and would not let me return home after I was detoxed. I now take Effexor, a dual acting anti-depressant for depression and pain-control. Luckily for me living alone without 7 to 11 people in the house has reduced my stress level so much so that my Reactive Arthritis and Fibromyalgia are at low levels. This does not mean that I am without pain. But I am managing the pain without the medications I formerly took. What will I do in the future if my pain symptoms return to their formerly high levels and reduce the quality of my life again? It will depend upon choices I make in consultation with my doctor. Even that " plan " was seen as an addictive decision by my wife and therefore evidence that...to her...I am/was still addicted. You cannot win without losing when your family disagrees with you on this matter. Nothing you can say or do will change their misunderstandings about narcotic pain relief for chronic pain management. My immediate problem is finding employment. I have a limit of about 4 hours before back pain and foot pain and shoulder and arm pain force me to collapse. The fatigue factors from the diseases are still a big problem. It takes a good two hours of rest before I can go again. I'm sure there is a solution to my difficulties, but right now it is extremely frustrating. My mind is willing, but my body is still diseased. The issues are very daunting and I can only hope that each one of you has a loving and understanding spouse/partner/parents/children, etc., to share a positive life with. For whatever you decide for yourself, I'm sure that there will be someone in your life who disagrees with narcotic pain management for you. Ray Neal, co-moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Janie, One of the reasons I decided to stop taking my oxycontin prescription for pain control was the fact that my pills had been stolen three times last summer by workmen in the house while we were remodeling and then moving. After I then knocked my satchel full of newly filled prescriptions out of the car on an out of town trip it became clear to me that this was not the way to live any longer. Yes, I was physically dependent, thus the painful and distressing withdrawals. But I was not addicted in the classical sense. I went, at the insistence of my wife and family, to a detox ward and then entered an outpatient program for chemically addicted persons. I stayed with the program for two and a half weeks out of respect for my family's desire, but what I became convinced of was that I was in no way addicted and did not need the program. I experienced no desire to seek or illegally or legally get more medication. Not even during detox. My associates in getting the prescriptions were my doctor, his nurse practitioner, and my pharmacist. I had gone monthly to be evaluated and pick up my prescription. I had gone weekly to the required counseling sessions with a psychologist. I had used one and only one doctor and one and only one pharmacy as required by the pain clinic contracts I had to sign. My friends were my family, and church members. I was never in a situation where I woke up and couldn't remember where I was or how I got there. I did not match any of the guidelines of being an addicted person. However, for her own reasons, my wife decided I was " addicted " and filed for divorce because I would not complete the chemical addiction program. Even now I still see the same psychologist who states I have no addiction problem, just depression and grief from my wife's decisions and actions. Family members may make wrong assumptions about those who deal with chronic pain. Family members may disagree with your doctors' medical treatment plans for your chronic pain. My wife is a doctor, but she never discussed her concerns about addiction with any of my doctors. I always asked her to attend my medical appointments if there was a question about being prescribed a narcotic medication or changing the doseage. She did go, but she always agreed with my doctors, or at least did not verbally disagree. There is a misconception in our society about the treatment of chronic pain. Many people do not believe that narcotics should be given for any condition other than pain in a terminally ill patient. But when do you decide a patient is terminally ill? My own mother suffered for years from intractable pain but was refused medications because " you might become addicted " until her last three months of life. Her quality of life would have been so much better if she had received narcotic pain relief sooner. My relationship with my family will never be the same. My wife and oldest children made up their minds about narcotic prescriptions for pain relief without ever discussing the situation with my doctor. They forced me into a detox program after they took away my medications from me. What could I do? They also forced me out of my own home and would not let me return home after I was detoxed. I now take Effexor, a dual acting anti-depressant for depression and pain-control. Luckily for me living alone without 7 to 11 people in the house has reduced my stress level so much so that my Reactive Arthritis and Fibromyalgia are at low levels. This does not mean that I am without pain. But I am managing the pain without the medications I formerly took. What will I do in the future if my pain symptoms return to their formerly high levels and reduce the quality of my life again? It will depend upon choices I make in consultation with my doctor. Even that " plan " was seen as an addictive decision by my wife and therefore evidence that...to her...I am/was still addicted. You cannot win without losing when your family disagrees with you on this matter. Nothing you can say or do will change their misunderstandings about narcotic pain relief for chronic pain management. My immediate problem is finding employment. I have a limit of about 4 hours before back pain and foot pain and shoulder and arm pain force me to collapse. The fatigue factors from the diseases are still a big problem. It takes a good two hours of rest before I can go again. I'm sure there is a solution to my difficulties, but right now it is extremely frustrating. My mind is willing, but my body is still diseased. The issues are very daunting and I can only hope that each one of you has a loving and understanding spouse/partner/parents/children, etc., to share a positive life with. For whatever you decide for yourself, I'm sure that there will be someone in your life who disagrees with narcotic pain management for you. Ray Neal, co-moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Ray: What you were getting from your wife and children is what I am getting from my MIL which slowly but surely ends up being brainwashed into my husband's head. The harder I try to get him to understand the harder she tries to prevent it. What really floors me is that this woman worked all her career, 30+ years as a LPN with chronically ill elderly patients but yet she pitches a wholely fit if I take something for pain. She hit the roof over the duragesic patch and then hit it again over the anti-depressent Wellbutrin. I let her hold it. This past week she tried to butt into my marriage and and had the audacity to say that if my husband, her youngest son, left he would take our youngest daughter. I let her know right out that it would be over my dead body. I never in this world thought she would turn on me the way she has since my symptoms have worsened from the lupus. I knew/know that my husband is not a romantic man. It isn't in his nature. But, why he won't sit and talk to me about this I guess I will never know. I'm just ranting on right now. I'm still in the midst of a flare that feels like it is trying to start all over again. Take care and take heart. There has to be someone out there who is understanding and will take us as we are even with our faults. After all, we took our spouses with their faults though they were not externally but rather internally. Blessed Be, Sam When a man screams, you must learn to whisper. - Graffiti Bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Ray: What you were getting from your wife and children is what I am getting from my MIL which slowly but surely ends up being brainwashed into my husband's head. The harder I try to get him to understand the harder she tries to prevent it. What really floors me is that this woman worked all her career, 30+ years as a LPN with chronically ill elderly patients but yet she pitches a wholely fit if I take something for pain. She hit the roof over the duragesic patch and then hit it again over the anti-depressent Wellbutrin. I let her hold it. This past week she tried to butt into my marriage and and had the audacity to say that if my husband, her youngest son, left he would take our youngest daughter. I let her know right out that it would be over my dead body. I never in this world thought she would turn on me the way she has since my symptoms have worsened from the lupus. I knew/know that my husband is not a romantic man. It isn't in his nature. But, why he won't sit and talk to me about this I guess I will never know. I'm just ranting on right now. I'm still in the midst of a flare that feels like it is trying to start all over again. Take care and take heart. There has to be someone out there who is understanding and will take us as we are even with our faults. After all, we took our spouses with their faults though they were not externally but rather internally. Blessed Be, Sam When a man screams, you must learn to whisper. - Graffiti Bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Ray: What you were getting from your wife and children is what I am getting from my MIL which slowly but surely ends up being brainwashed into my husband's head. The harder I try to get him to understand the harder she tries to prevent it. What really floors me is that this woman worked all her career, 30+ years as a LPN with chronically ill elderly patients but yet she pitches a wholely fit if I take something for pain. She hit the roof over the duragesic patch and then hit it again over the anti-depressent Wellbutrin. I let her hold it. This past week she tried to butt into my marriage and and had the audacity to say that if my husband, her youngest son, left he would take our youngest daughter. I let her know right out that it would be over my dead body. I never in this world thought she would turn on me the way she has since my symptoms have worsened from the lupus. I knew/know that my husband is not a romantic man. It isn't in his nature. But, why he won't sit and talk to me about this I guess I will never know. I'm just ranting on right now. I'm still in the midst of a flare that feels like it is trying to start all over again. Take care and take heart. There has to be someone out there who is understanding and will take us as we are even with our faults. After all, we took our spouses with their faults though they were not externally but rather internally. Blessed Be, Sam When a man screams, you must learn to whisper. - Graffiti Bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Hi Janie: I also have had some confusion about the definitions of addiction and tolerance, but finally asked my doctors about it and they were very good about explaining the two concepts. In the case of a patient who is taking pain medication to alleviate pain arising from an injury, chronic disease, surgery, etc. - these patients take the medication with just one primary goal in mind, and that goal is to alleviate their pain. I have never personally known a pain patient who has taken pain medication with any other goal in mind. If that patient becomes ill and can't ingest the pain medication or has to be taken off one pain med to change to another type at the doctor's request, then the patient will experience some temporary discomfort because the body has attuned itself to operating with a certain amount of medication in the system. When a person becomes addicted to pain medication, the addiction occurs because that person is not in actual physical pain. Physical pain causes certain bodily substances to circulate in the system and these substances nullify any potential feelings of euphoria. This euphoria is the feeling that pain medication abusers are looking for and is what motivates them to seek out ways of obtaining the medications. The euphoric " high " is sought by drug abusers in order to displace negative feelings - like depression, sadness, loneliness, etc. When a pain med abuser is taken off the meds, they go through a lot of discomfort not unlike what is experienced by genuine pain patients when they are taken off pain meds due to a change in prescription or because they are having trouble keeping the medication down. The two physical states - tolerance of a medication or addiction to a medication - are in no way the same except in the sense that there is discomfort associated with suspension of its use as well as a difference in what motivates the user of the medication, the alleviation of pain or the experiencing of euphoria. Above and beyond those distinctions is the propensity for many in this country to subjectively define pain medications (and those who take them) as " bad " or " good. " The healthcare system's job, in my view, should be focusing on the optimal health of all citizens and each citizen's health profile should, when necessary, contain appropriate pain management. The job of the government is to collect taxes from the citizenry and use an appropriate amount of these tax revenues to promote an inclusive and efficient healthcare system. The government's job description does not delineate any responsibilities relating to defining who or what is " good " or " bad " medicine. If someone takes a drug for purposes other than pain relief, maybe some thought should be given to what motivated that person to view a drug as their only option in dealing with their personal problems and feelings. This is my take on things for what it's worth. S.W. Virginia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Hi Janie: I also have had some confusion about the definitions of addiction and tolerance, but finally asked my doctors about it and they were very good about explaining the two concepts. In the case of a patient who is taking pain medication to alleviate pain arising from an injury, chronic disease, surgery, etc. - these patients take the medication with just one primary goal in mind, and that goal is to alleviate their pain. I have never personally known a pain patient who has taken pain medication with any other goal in mind. If that patient becomes ill and can't ingest the pain medication or has to be taken off one pain med to change to another type at the doctor's request, then the patient will experience some temporary discomfort because the body has attuned itself to operating with a certain amount of medication in the system. When a person becomes addicted to pain medication, the addiction occurs because that person is not in actual physical pain. Physical pain causes certain bodily substances to circulate in the system and these substances nullify any potential feelings of euphoria. This euphoria is the feeling that pain medication abusers are looking for and is what motivates them to seek out ways of obtaining the medications. The euphoric " high " is sought by drug abusers in order to displace negative feelings - like depression, sadness, loneliness, etc. When a pain med abuser is taken off the meds, they go through a lot of discomfort not unlike what is experienced by genuine pain patients when they are taken off pain meds due to a change in prescription or because they are having trouble keeping the medication down. The two physical states - tolerance of a medication or addiction to a medication - are in no way the same except in the sense that there is discomfort associated with suspension of its use as well as a difference in what motivates the user of the medication, the alleviation of pain or the experiencing of euphoria. Above and beyond those distinctions is the propensity for many in this country to subjectively define pain medications (and those who take them) as " bad " or " good. " The healthcare system's job, in my view, should be focusing on the optimal health of all citizens and each citizen's health profile should, when necessary, contain appropriate pain management. The job of the government is to collect taxes from the citizenry and use an appropriate amount of these tax revenues to promote an inclusive and efficient healthcare system. The government's job description does not delineate any responsibilities relating to defining who or what is " good " or " bad " medicine. If someone takes a drug for purposes other than pain relief, maybe some thought should be given to what motivated that person to view a drug as their only option in dealing with their personal problems and feelings. This is my take on things for what it's worth. S.W. Virginia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Hello all, I think this boils down to the words. I used to be a drug counselor for many years. The words addiction, tolerance and dependence mean very different things. Someone who is addicted will go to any length to get more of a drug. In the language of 12 step recovery programs it says " One is too many and a thousand is never enough. " That pretty well explains addiction. Our tolerance can build over time when taking medication. The time will come when a person will need more of a medication to do the same thing. I have been on one of my pain medications for over 10 years and just recently I've noticed that it's not helping as much as it used to. Dependence is a different thing. A diabetic is dependent on insulin to control their diabetes. Chronic pain patients depend on their medication to live as close to a normal life as their disease's will let them. I am dependent on my medications to help me so I can go to my work and to take care of my family. Just my 2 cents worth. Kathleen in Calif. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Kathleen: That is a wonderful description. I applaud your ability to put it into words. I do not see any of us here as being addicted. I see us as needing medication to have a half-way normal lifestyle. We don't abuse. We don't go down to the corner to score a hit of whatever the heck they are hitting nowadays. (In my youth it was pot. LOL!) We are just people with a high degree of pain that needs controling or we would be pushed over the edge. Sam When a man screams, you must learn to whisper. - Graffiti Bridge. Dependence is a different thing. A diabetic is dependent on insulin to control their diabetes. Chronic pain patients depend on their medication to live as close to a normal life as their disease's will let them. I am dependent on my medications to help me so I can go to my work and to take care of my family. Just my 2 cents worth. Kathleen in Calif. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Kathleen: That is a wonderful description. I applaud your ability to put it into words. I do not see any of us here as being addicted. I see us as needing medication to have a half-way normal lifestyle. We don't abuse. We don't go down to the corner to score a hit of whatever the heck they are hitting nowadays. (In my youth it was pot. LOL!) We are just people with a high degree of pain that needs controling or we would be pushed over the edge. Sam When a man screams, you must learn to whisper. - Graffiti Bridge. Dependence is a different thing. A diabetic is dependent on insulin to control their diabetes. Chronic pain patients depend on their medication to live as close to a normal life as their disease's will let them. I am dependent on my medications to help me so I can go to my work and to take care of my family. Just my 2 cents worth. Kathleen in Calif. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 : Please know that you are not alone. There are many of us out here on the internet and off who are taking the medications for pain for that very reason. We can't get our old life back but by the grace of God at least we can get some life back even if it is a small part. I also have children, 10 years apart even, that I love spending time with and if it takes taking medication that Big Brother doesn't approve of then so be it. I want to enjoy them for as long as I can. I also want to enjoy life and my medication - opiate and others, is what gets the job done. For that, I am thankful. Sam When a man screams, you must learn to whisper. - Graffiti Bridge. ..so NO...I aint looking for a fix or a buzz.........I want my life back................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 angllight@... wrote: > I know I/we get tolerant while taking meds, but I can't say I am not > addicted. I have been thru the symptoms......any thoughts? Addiction and physical dependence are two entirely different things. Let me repeat that. Addiction and physical dependence are TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS. Anyone who reguarly takes an opioid for any reason (pain control, seeking a high) for any length of time *will* develop physical dependence. Guaranteed. Physical dependence involves changes in the body such that an unpleasant and sometimes hazardous withdrawal syndrome appears when the drug is discontinued or sharply reduced in dosage, or an antagonist (blocker) is administered. But that's not addiction! Addiction, in contrast to physical dependence, is a purely *psychological* phenomenon. It is defined as " uncontrolled drug use despite harm " . The key word is " harm " . Addiction by this definition is *very rare* among chronic pain patients, especially those treated by pain clinics that feature psychologists as well as pain specialists who closely monitor the patient's progress. Opioids are far from the only medications that induce physical tolerance. Beta blockers, benzodiazepines, anticonvulsants, steroids (e.g., cortisone), and most antidepressants are other examples. Because of this vast difference between physical dependence and psychological addiction, and the highly loaded connotations of the word " addiction " , enlightened doctors now completely avoid the term " physical addiction " . We should avoid it too. Some doctors and researchers have even coined the term " pseudoaddiction " to denote drug-seeking behavior by patients in pain. The crucial difference between pseudoaddiction and true addiction is that when the patient's pain is controlled, his drug-seeking behavior stops. He's after pain relief, not a " high " . The purpose of pain management is to improve the patient's quality of life and his ability to function. If an opioid has this effect, and it often does, then the patient by definition cannot be " addicted " because addiction implies harm. This is true no matter how much opioid the patient uses and how much physical dependence is built up. It is truly sad that even people who should know better, such as Ray's MD wife, don't understand this distinction. The fault is theirs, not Ray's, and it's an outrage that he should have to suffer for their ignorance. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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